Yes the puzzle pieces fell into place. The very day he told me he loved me and cared for me and that he did not know when he would see OW again he had booked a ticket to go visit her. I just discovered the charge this weekend. Last night he had the nerve to tell me that when this contract was up he was going to take a coule weeks vacation maybe go to CO or the the Hamptons w/ a male friend. LIE LIE LIE...isn't it obvious where he is going. And still this weekend he told D that he still loved mommy very much. WHY? why does he do this? The lies still....I just can't take it anymore. <P>I need to let it go. It still hurt though when it all came together and I realized that once again all his words were lies. I'm sick of the lies and the betrayal. I feel like such a fool for even believing for a moment that he still loved me. <P>Well, I suppose I should try somehow to get some sleep. I was exhausted when I went to bed and have only managed 1 1/2 hours sleep tonight.

((((HopelessinAZ))))<P>You will start feeling less hurt when you gain acceptance of the fact that THIS is who he is. As long as you fight the reality of who he is with your idea of who he should be...it's going to hurt over and over and over.<P>I know, what I just said doesn't help you right NOW. I hated it when my Al-Anon sponsor used to say that to me - but I found out later she was right.<P>That's why I was on here laughing about my H's stupidity over wanting to take me out yesterday, instead of sobbing hystersically over the fact that he was with another woman all weekend.<P>Acceptance takes time. But you WILL get there, and you WILL get sleep and peace once again.<P>(((hugs))) BR

I suspect that in many cases of affairs, the WS still has feelings for the BS. It's kind of a having your cake and eat it too thing. I suspect my STBX wants to remain "good friends" because she sees this as some sort of validation. That my son & I are OK, nobody got hurt & she got what she wanted.<P>There's no reason to feel foolish. It's hard not to believe something you want so badly. And yes, if you think you need to let go, then maybe you do. It's very hard to give up, but the relief of having this burden lifted is very real.<P>If the sleeplessness persists, you may want to speak to your doctor. Also watch your weight carefully. Significant weight loss is another symptom of situaional depression, which most of us go through. Please make sure you get enough rest, exercise & maintain a healthy diet. I know it's difficult, but focus on yourself, your kids and your future. <P>It does get better, I promise. 8 months ago, I would have never believed it, but all those folks who said it would get better were right. It has. I know how much pain you are feeling right now, and I know EXACTLY what it feels like. The only thing that lets you heal is time (see my signature).<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hopeless}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited April 24, 2001).]

((((((Hopeless)))))))<P>It gets better, but as long as he continues contact with OW, AND you hang onto hope at the same time, you will continue to be hurt over and over again. <P>At some point, you will reach your breaking point, and decide to let go of that hope. When that happens, you will start to sleep better, feel better and be hurt less. It's not easy, and it takes a lot of work and time, but you can't change someone else, you can change only yourself.<P>When I let my ex go , I felt like a huge weight had been lifted from me. It was the first time, that I took control of my own life instead of letting my future revolve around his confusion. I started making plans, talking with my friends more, and making new friends.<P>There are still bad days, but they happen less often and you also start to see the WS as a different person. Sometimes, this is when the WS actually takes notice and starts to really question their own actions. <P>I still miss my ex, but I know I am far better off without him in my life. I look at how I was reacting to every situation he put us both in and I was miserable and very depressed for way too long.<P>You'll get there. It can only go two ways, either he comes home and you start recovery, or you let go. When your stuck in the middle , there is a lot of pain but no changes involved.<P>I wish you the best and sending you a hug, Dana<BR>

I try very hard to let go. I just seems that everytime I get to a certain point of acceptance he does or says something nice. <P>Maybe no contact is the way to go here. I do really well when I don't see him or talk to him. <P>I will have to admit that with this last episode I was not nearly as devasted as in the past. I cried some but it did not last that long.<P>I just want this to be over and to find someone who understands the meaning of respect and love. My STBX said that maybe it was love at first sight with the OW that is why he could not forget her. My theory is that if that is what he really believes that he has no idea what true love is. I want someone who understands life on a deeper level.<P>Thanks to all my good MB friends who listen, you all help me grow daily. Best Divorce support group going!!!

Hi HopeAZ,<P>Yes, been there. He is a waffle. Remember all my frustrated posting the last few weeks? Last Feb, H said he needed to go and say goodbye to OW. Right a 3 day vacation to Yosemite. <P>Goodbye? The weather was beautiful. Accomodations where ok. But the lies where there. H came back and said that even though everything was nice, it really did not feel good. Oh yes, I cried. Then they went back and forth between break up to make up again and again. More waffling.<P>Each time, I became stronger in my stance. Similar to where you are now. A couple of good people out there kept me on track. I have put that post which helped me. <P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html</A> <P>Then a few more persistent supporters recommended a book by Dr. James Dobson called Love Must be Tough. I got it at Barnes and Nobel, my version is a hard back book with another book attached called Straight Talk - What men should know and Women need to understand. I have started reading it and it has been helpful for me. Hey, it was only $14.99 not a bad investment. It has letters from people like us and is in an easy to read form. <P>You and I are on the same path with a lot of others. The stages of grieving eventually lead to acceptance. It is not a one way path. I have gone back and forth myself and get frustrated. When I do, I post. Take a look at what I have done the past month. Well, maybe not, I do post a lot. Anyway, each waffle period pushed me towards acceptance. Right now, H am using the 'tough love' approach. In my case, I told H that this is his last opportunity to work on our marriage. While he will always have the ability to build & repair a relationship with his son, family and God, I choose not be around for his continued waffling. I will give him this last opportunity to work on our marriage. H was decided to cut it off with OW but is (as we all know) having a difficult time. Time will tell whether he can do it or not. Time will also show if I can be a woman of my word. The suspense is high right now but I will make it. You all out there will help me. <P>I share my experience with you Hope, I actually was not ready to say anything yet, it is all too fresh. But I wanted to tell you because you are someone close to me and we have been through so much together. <P>You know, I am not feeling too happy or too sad, just watching and waiting. Please check out the above post and see if the words from the other posters may be of some comfort and suppor to you. I am grateful they were there for me. <P>Our Ws's don't know what a great group we have here. H is even kind of jealous of the support I receive here, esp. the ones from the guys. Oh well, I am cautious because I remember why I come here to MB. <P>Take care my friend and keep in touch. <P>L.<BR>

<BR>I guess I'm fortunate in that my stbxh acts rather callous and rude towards me. I can't think of anything 'nice' that he's done since he left. And there wasn't much of anything 'nice' for a while before he left either.<P>Face it, these are men who know how to manipulate our hearts, minds, and bodies. They know how to put the carrot out, and then just the right time to yank it away. They know what hurts us. Intentional or subconscious -- they don't care about us and they will hurt us.<P>They care only about theirselves. They don't care about how their actions affect us or our children. They think that whatever is good for them must be good for the kids.<P>I wish I were sleeping better, but I'm not. I'm acting out my emotions in my dreams; taking action where I dare not in real life. Defending my family. <P>But overall, things are better. I am starting to take care of myself.....do the things I need to do for me. And I am enjoying things with my daughter. I miss her greatly when she visits her Dad. But I also appreciate having the time to myself. Painful dichotomy.<P>~Amy

Bramble Rose, As always your post is full of great advice. You are the voice of reason and I always look forward to hearing from you.<P>Nick, you are my inspiration for recovery. I see how well you are doing and know that I will get there someday. Although I still get hurt the pain is less and lasts for a shorter period of time.<P>DanaB, Thanks for your words of support. I always enjoy reading the words of someone who has been through this and has hope for the future. I know you have your own issues at this time as well and I admire your strength.<P>Orchid my friend, I have read all of your posts. I remain hopeful for you. I really admire your courage in all this. I will check out those books. <P>Out Of The Fog, There are days when I just wish STBX would be more rude. That way the love bank would dry up faster and I wouldn't get my heart stomped on as much. Take Care of yourself.

<P>You can ask some of the veterans what I was like 8 months ago. I was completely emotionally trashed. I slept an hour or two a night, I lost 35 pounds and I was almost completely incapable of doing anything.<P>You can't speed up the process, you just have to ride the ride & take the ups and downs as they come. I'm still in plan A, but it's for me exclusively now. When I accepted that my wife was never coming back the pain got much better. When I discovered that I didn't want her back, it got even better still. Right now I feel a bit empty inside, but that's a sure sign that the healing is still ongoing. <P>There will always be up days & down days, there always were. I think they're just a lot more noticeable when you are alone. The healing takes a long time. I still have a long way to go before I'm done, and I'm not sure if the pain will ever go away completely. But at least now I know that I can live with it.<P>Now is the time to focus on you. As a person, and as a parent. That's what will help you heal the most and helps the time pass...<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Hopeless,<P>My ex was the same way. As soon as I showed some strength or the slightest sign that I was giving up and getting ready to give up/let go etc, he always had some kind words, a hug, or his best way to get to me, ask for my help. He knows I can never refuse anyone when they ask for my help.<P>Little by little I started keep track of the patterns. It helps to understand him better. THL (When I find the time), recommended a website, which is a spinoff of a book I am assuming, that goes into personality types and it really makes sense. I also think birth order, and whether or not our own parents divorced while we were young also plays a big part into it.<P>But what has helped me is keeping a journal and writing in it. I go back and read it, even a week later, and I can barely remember what I wrote. <P>Yes, I still feel the pain, but somehow I am moving past it better on most days. I know even to this day, my exH is very nice to me when he and OW are fighting (you think I don't know he uses me to make her mad). He calls up and is very nice. I used to get angry by it. Now I just shrug it off. I do believe that what comes around goes around, and my ex and OW will get what they gave out. What brought them together, will one day destroy them. <P>When the time is right, and you are strong enough, you will decide when its ok for you to let go. You can always love your stbx, you can always miss him, and remember the good old days, but at some point, if he doesn't come back, you have to put your life first and start living for YOU. You might just find that it's not so bad after all. <P>Find the positives. I know its hard. But such as, if you want to eat cereal for dinner, you can. There are no dirty underwear on the bathroom floor every morning. You have one less person to do laundry for. You can cut your grocery bill in half. If you want to go out on the town with the girls , you can. If you want to stay in bed all day, you can. Whatever pet peeves you might have had, think of what your not dealing with now. (no more toilet seat left open!) <P>Each day write one good thing that happened in your journal. Try to find as much positive as you can. There is always something, even if its that the sun is shining. If you truly can't find something, write down an inspirational quote that cheers you up. I have plenty I'll share.<P>And lastly, if you believe in real love, fate, God, or any higher power, whatever it is, that you believe in, let it comfort you, and only think about you and what you can do to change your life. You'll never change your ex, but you can make your life so much better and you deserve it.<P>HUGS, its not hopeless!<BR>Dana<P><BR>