I've been reading a lot but saying little lately. Maybe I'm up to some input. Here's where I am: A marriage that went from me trying to get what I needed for about the first 12 years (affection, attention, a smile occasionally, etc)to me accepting that I'd never get those things from H, but there was enough that I did get that I chose to stay in the marriage for about the next 7 years, H had an affair with coworker; I realized and had a detective get evidence (while I worked on an Oscar and hoped he'd change his mind); confronted him when he came home from being with her; I moved him out; I didn't believe that I wanted him or that he'd be interested in staying with me; H lived in fog, wouldn't do anything I needed him to for me to have hope (like leave the place he worked with her, stop communicating with her, etc.); I lived in agony; I decided I'd had enough (relationship hadn't been good between us for a long time if ever) and I wanted to get it over with: BIG D. Then, guess what...he wants us to work it out, "willing to go to any lengths." <BR>Now, I feel like I'd be really stupid to believe that he can (or I can) make the great changes that would necessary for us to have the kind of relationship that would be GOOD. Every thought I have about him these days is PAINFUL. That makes me want to get rid of him and quit being in pain. MOVE ON! Most of the input I get from others who know him, me, and/or us is that from what they've seen and/or heard of our relationship that my best hope of a good life is without him. <BR>Just because we've been together for nearly 20 years and have a daughter together isn't enough reason to do another 40 or 50 year sentence together, is it?!?!? Isn't it more reasonable to recognize that my best chance of happiness (and his) is NOT together>!?!?!? Looking at things REASONABLY, I'm just asking to suffer more to think about spending time with him, I don't want to hurt anymore, and I don't want to mislead him about where we're headed.<P>BUT! I can't say that don't feel anything for him, I do, but the idea of being vunerable again scares the H@$@ out of me. Better to avoid it and keep moving forward...right?!?!?!?<BR>And, I think about this: if he decided he was ready to do anything to work things out (wonder what his definition of anything includes, hummm) concided with when I was through trying to work things out...what should I expect from him when I begin to care again????? He quits caring again?????? <P>I like feeling like I have some control over my life again and it was a good thing that I finally stopped crying constantly...the Mighty Missasip' was about to overflow it's banks. <P>Please send input, My own thoughts are getting too loud, I need to hear from others.<P>G.

GAJ,<P>Only you can decide whether you've had enough or not - what the lengths are that you are willing to go to for your marraige. This is a personal decision and each of us has come to our limit in our own time and way.<P>Some of us never made the choice - we had it forced upon us unwillingly.<P>If you stay married - the next 40-50 years do not have to be a "sentence" but to make things better - you and your spouse will need to make the effort to make it more than a prison term.<P>If you divorce - please understand that the grass isn't greener here in single land - there is a consequence and price to pay for every action. The grass is DIFFERENT here, but not necessarily any better.<P>Take some time to decide - maybe talk to a counselor to work through your thoughts with a "sounding board" - and then trust your judgement.<P>Good luck<P>Lisa

GAJ,<BR>Ok I guess we are going to have to talk to each other. I guess our question(s) are really difficult to answer. Coming from me this may sound a bit off but maybe you should give it an honest try now that the cards are on the table. <P>I agree with soon2be that a counselor may be the ticket. Seems that you have 2 pretty big issues to deal with. The A and a sh!tty marriage in general. I’m talking with Steve Harley myself, while I’m not real sure of the outcome at this point, I am sure that I will always be glad that I at least tried before ending it (if ending it is my outcome). So what I’m saying is that if I do walk at least I walk educated, I’ll know what to look for and how to act the next time around. I won’t have to wonder about what could have been different if I tried.<P>I’m glad I have taken the time to learn the finer points of what makes a good marriage, I’m glad I’ve had someone to professionally point out the importance of EN’s in both directions. Heck I’ve learned about EN’s that I’ve always had but never really defined to myself let alone my W. It made me realize that there is no way someone can meet your EN’s if you don’t clearly identify them and point them out. <P>Just a different thought to counter some of your own loud ones. Ultimately you (we) have to decide what is best for our own situation.<P>While our questions were similar, yours has more of a should I try to recover the marriage theme. I would be willing to bet that if you posted this same thread over in the recovery group you would get much more input.<P>PO’d<BR>

GAJ,<P>Trust is a very hard thing to do sometimes, but if you don't trust and "put yourself out on a limb" sometimes, you will never grow as a person. Even worse, you won't ever experience what life has in store for you. Keep in mind that a marriage is a two-way street. If there are potholes on your side of the street, chances are high that there are some on his side as well. You need to first look to yourself before you throw all the blame on your husband. In order to do that properly you need to learn about marriage, about what you are going through and about what makes a good marriage work. To do that you have two great avenues - counseling and reading.<P>Once you admit to yourself that you have responsibility for where you are and for some of the problems in your marriage, then start looking at how to fix it - not escape it. Nothing in this life comes easy - THERE IS NO EASY MARRIAGE. Period.<P>Since I was in court yesterday getting divorced (since my wife did not believe our marriage was worth working to save), I took a day off of work. Late in the day I was flipping through the channels when I landed on Opera - she had that marriage counselor on and the topic was "The 10 Most Common Marriage Myths". It was the last day of a whole series of shows they did on the topic. So many of his ideas are ones that are described and talked about here at MB.<P>But the main undertone to all his teachings is that MARRIAGE IS WORK, day-in and day-out. And the work never stops and never ends. BUT the payoffs are so well worth the effort.<P>I guess what I am saying is that if your husband is saying he wants to work on things, AND if he seems sincere, then why not try again. Take a chance. Take the risk. If somehow he ends up hurting you again, you will at least KNOW DEEP DOWN that you had the strength to truly try again. And I guarantee that even if that happens, you will feel happy with yourself.<P>Yesterday was the culmination of a year and a half worth of my wife's antics. She did so much and said so much and made my life hell. But I never let anger take control of me - I showed her nothing but my love and devotion. Some may say that all my efforts were in vain, but they weren't. For I grew so much over the past year. From knowing my wife for 10 years, I knew what the odds were of me convincing her to reconcile, but that never stopped me. While today I am sad that I am divorced, I have never been so proud of myself for handling the things like I did. Did I trust her? Yes. Did she abuse that trust? Yes she did. Did it hurt me? Yes. Would I do it all over again? Yes I would.<P>Trust in the love you both once shared. Believe in it. Really believe in it. By just believing in it, you are opening yourselves up to a miracle. But if you don't believe with all your heart, you'll never give God a chance to work in you and your husband's life...<P>Just my $.02<P>God Bless you both,<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike, I'm going to try to listen (AND HEAR) my husband this weekend to get a reading on the "if he's sincere" point. And the answer to "take a chance," "take the risk" is...will I be able to dig myself up to this close to the top again if I fall? It has been no easy feat for me to accept that we'd be better off NOT together, if I begin to question that and it all goes to sh*t again, how will I get up the strength of will to get out then???? I've read some of what you've posted about your marriage and the dissolution of it, and I wonder if what I'm feeling isn't a little like what your wife did, once the forward momentium was started, no looking back. I guess I set up a little test of myself last night...kinda wanted to see how bad it could be letting myself feel again. I was home alone, mixed myself a drink, and pulled out the photo albums...I cried (ok, blubbered) and tried to let myself remember the times I saw there. One thing that hit me hard was seeing documentation of what an unhappy person my husband was/is. I was hard pressed to find a picture of him smiling. It is not something he is comfortable with. I can't help but wonder, if he has to make drastic changes in his life without me, will he find the means to smile more often...it didn't happen with me. I'm rambling again. Sorry.<P>Lisa, PO'd, and Mike, On the topic of counseling...We went together a few times, then I chose to see C. alone, he's made plans to also, left it open to go again together at some point if we choose. C. commented on when we came together that they "were concerned about not seeing the level of commitment to the relationship on his part." ME TOO. That's mostly what led me to "Give up." As for reading...suggestions? I read (and tried to involve H in) "His Need, Her Needs" by Harley about 2 years ago. H wouldn't make the effort. Then, when A happened, I came to this site to find what, if any, reading material Harley had on that topic...Well, then I read "Surviving..." and got excited and hopeful. Shared it with H (as a matter of fact, he's never returned either book). His response...he laughed/scoffed and said, "If people were able to do those things, they wouldn't be having problems." Of course, all of this was before "I'll do anything to work things out." Again, I'm going to have to feel out the sincerity of that statement, and go from there. Pray for me please. <BR>I'm going to follow PO'd's suggest and move over to the recovery forum and see what other words of wisdom are available to me. Thanks to all of you.<BR>G.<BR>