<BR>Please give me your thoughts and ideas on my meager assets and monster debt! <P>I have some very basic questions - I'm finding the financial end of things pretty confusing - I don't even know what questions to ask at this point. What do you guys suggest?<P>We are so broke that I'm afraid if I screw this up, I'm going to be hurting for a very long time. I may be hurting regardless, but at least I hope it won't be because I was naive or uninformed.<P>For starters, we are in an equitable distribution state. <P>I think that CS will be roughly 22-2400 a month. 3 kids in my primary physical custody...H makes 125k base salary.<P>My living expenses with the 3 kids are approx $4500 a month. <P>I'm also eligible for permanent alimony due to my "long term" marriage of 10 years...but my atty doesn't think I'll get that, given that I'm so young (almost 33). <P>I want to ask for at least 10 years. I've been a stay at home mom for 10 years, and I have a 5 month old infant. When we married, the agreement was that I would be home with the kids. Do you guys think it would be unreasonable to ask for alimony enough to cover the rest of my monthly expenses for at least 5 years while the baby is small, and I try to figure out how to support myself?<P>Also remember, that while I stayed home....H rode the corporate ladder up to VP. I hardly think I'll have the same opportunities given my late start and 3 kids...<P>We own a home. Purchased 9/99 for 140K. Mortgage (in H's name only) balance is 134K. We pay property taxes based on a home value of 158K. <P>So how do I determine what equity, if any, is in my home?<P>My H has expressed a desire to keep the house and move into it after the divorce. I plan to move to VA.<P>He really doesn't know what he wants or what he's doing - he's also job hunting in VA - so who knows?<P>My H also has a couple of small 401ks - worth 6-7k perhaps? My last statements are from Dec, and I'm guessing.<P>Which is more valueable - my share of any equity in the house, or my share of the 401k? Would it be wise to ask for my "share" of the house out of the 401K? <P>If we were to put all or part of the 401k in my name...what are the tax considerations? <P>That's it for assets really. <P>We have 13k in credit card debt, 8k in back Federal Taxes...<P>He has his car, and I have mine. My H bought my 95 Jeep from after the lease was up - it's only worth 7k (?) and there's 11k owed on it! It's starting to need work too - and I guess it would be a bad idea to try to trade it in for something newer.<P>I'd be happy to take the Jeep - debt and all. I want H to take the rest of the debt though - again...is that reasonable?<P>Yep, I know, I want him to basically continue supporting us like he is now! <G><P>If you guys were trying to divide up stuff and plan...what would you be thinking given these numbers??<P>Thanks bunches for any ideas.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>--BR<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Oh yeah, I almost forgot!!<P>He also gets bonuses - but I don't know when or how much.<P>Could be anywhere from 30k-60k.<P>What should I do, if anything, about that too?

Well, whenever I see questions like this, I go to the trusty internet and run the numbers.<P>First, based on $20,000 equity, the house equity is worth more than the 401K right now. However, if you can refrain from removing the 401K money, that may be the way to go in the long run.<P>Here in California, the rule of thumb is 1/2 the length of the marriage for spousal support. But here the court is required to maintain indefinite jurisdiction over spousal support.<P>Now for child support. And it's not pretty. Here are my assumptions.<P>His income 125K<BR>Bonus 45K<BR>Your income 0<BR>His timeshare 27%<P>Based on these numbers, the calculator spits out $693 per month. About half of your expenses.<P>Talk to your lawyer. It seems to me that this may be very low. But there is a clause, at least in Cal law, that there is a maximum that they take into account for CS. STBX may be over and you are just getting for the guideline, which I think may be $2900 a month.<P>I hope this does not throw you for a loop. Good Luck<P>Brian

Well, as far as the house goes you probably could have it appraised or have a real estate agent give you a selling price based on what the housing market is like in your area. I know that our state tax appraisal value is lower that what we could actually sell house for. Then at least you would have some idea of the equity you have in the house. If your H keeps the house and you have good equity he could refinance your debt with 2nd mortgage and there would be some tax advanteges there. Also when the house gets sold the debt is paid off as well as part of the deal. You could then split proceeds from the sale 50/50. For my situation I would like to keep house as it is a good investment. The first lawyer told me that I should get the house due to the fact that I supported him through school and helped him advance but that was only her opinion and not what I would be legally entitiled to. <P>Given the amount of debt that you guys carry and at what interest rate it may be advisable to sell home and pay off debt. That is if neither one of you stays in the area and both move.<P>Get alimony for as long as you can. I'm in the same boat, long term marriage, gave up career to promote H's so I will be way behind. I will be basically starting from scratch at this point and with having full custody it will limit my career choices.<P>I have no idea about the 401K thing. You would need to wait until he retires anyway without paying a huge penalty to withdraw. Don't know about rolling over into another name. I'm lucky in that regard as my 401K is about 20K while H is about 6K. He said we could each keep our own 401K's and split the 28K joint investment account. I think I deserve more than 50% as it was his frivolous spending habits that caused us to withdraw 12K earlier this year to pay off credit card debt! But if he is willing to leave 401K intact I'm not bickering.<P>Also have you thought about making sure he has life and disability insurance with you and your children as benificiaries. If he should suddenly die all the alimony and CS awards won't do you any good. You will need the insurance at that point.<P>Just my very humble 2cents worth. I'm sure there are others out there with better advice.

Hi Brian:<P>I'm in NJ. I'm basing my estimates off of a couple of different places, including a calculator here:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.divorcelawinfo.com/NJ/cal/NJCSC.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.divorcelawinfo.com/NJ/cal/NJCSC.html</A> <P>I doubt my H will even have 27% of the kids - I'll be pushing for EOW at most, if he decides to move to be near us. Otherwise...it will be less than that.<P>Informally, I'll be happy to let him see them more...but legally, I won't, for a lot of reasons I wont get into here.<P>Hi HopelessinAZ,<P>Good thoughts. I keep forgetting to write down LIFE INS!!<P>I can't keep the house...and I doubt there's THAT much equity. <sigh><P>Did I mention that my credit is miserable too? <P>I doubt he can get a second mortgage...he's tried before and failed ...<P>Do I really have to wait for him to retire to deal with the 401K? I can't have it put under my control?<P>ugh.<P>Thanks for the ideas!<P>------------------<BR>--BR<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

BR,<P>What kind of interest rate do you have on the mortgage? You might think about refinancing it while they are coming down if you opt to keep the house. If it may be sold, it might not be worth the refinance.<P>I have 3 kids. I get $113 a week from my ex. (for 3 kids, thats about $450 a month) No spousal support, we were together almost 12 years, and I'm 28. I am self employed, I have worked or been in college since the day they were born. I bought my own house without him on a year we were seperated,but my house is about $80k. Oh, and my van payment is $450 a month for 2 more years. I can barely make it, but my expenses are about $2600 a month. This is with cautious budgeting.<P>I would say that depending on where you live, if I had the option to receive that much in support, I'd sell the house and move to a much cheaper one, maybe even a low maintanence town house . You can't ever depend on child support and spousal support doesn't last forever. God forbid, he gets sick of paying that money and goes into business for himself where he can hide money or something, you could lose that support. I hate to sound skeptical but my ex has done that, he went to working mostly under the table. <P>But also, I know the hard way, that support is not always guaranteed. Yes, they have to pay it, but if they manipulate the laws just right, they can forget to send it, or stop the bank deposit for a few weeks, long enough to put you in more jeaprody before court catches up to them.<P>Anyhow, if it were me, I would get rid of the house and get something cheaper. I wouldn't want to wait on whether "he" wants it, relocates, etc. <P>Where I live, you split everything 50/50. Which means that you would split the profit on the house right in half, and as for the 401k, those get split in half too. However, I hate to sound like a sore sport, but marital debt is also your responsibility, whether you are working or not. If you lived with him while it was incurred, and for some reason, he claims bankruptcy, they WILL come after you for it. <P>In our case, I took more than half the debt because my credit was perfect and didn't want him messing it up, and he was to pay me an extra $150 a month (no where near enough to cover it), and again, when the payments didn't come on time, my credit was ruined and had to file bankruptcy.<P>In the end I learned that I will NEVER ever rely on a man for anything, and I gave up a very good career a few years ago to stay home with the kids. <P>Anyhow, those days are over, and I'm a single mom now. I get very worried when I hear women talk about wanting to remain home with the kids after they are a single parent, no matter how much the ex makes, and even if they were a stay at home parent up til now. If something happens, and he doesn't want to pay you that much, I have seen twice personally where a man has given up a 100k+ job to go work for 40K just to avoid paying all that money to the ex spouse/<P>I would say set yourself up now with the absolute least amount of debt and take whatever extra income you can get by doing that and start saving it as long as you can, and even try to save a good portion of spousal support too, if you get it.<P>Again, I'm not sure where you live, but if I can make it, and my situation is very bad, then I think you have a good chance too. <P>I am just very skeptical about relying on that income to live, or relying on a man, no offense to the men here, but I've seen too many women lose everything, and I won't put myself there.<P>This link might give you more info on the laws in your area. <A HREF="http://www.divorcenet.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.divorcenet.com/</A> <P>This link has calculators, and info on pensions. <A HREF="http://www.divorcesource.com/info/pension/pension.shtml" TARGET=_blank>http://www.divorcesource.com/info/pension/pension.shtml</A> <P>Good luck, Dana<P><BR>

Hi BR,<P>I read your post last night, and deliberately waited until this morning to see what the others were going to say before I got on my soapbox.<P>We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become <B> unmanageable. </B><P>Think about something for a minute. In previous threads you mentioned that your STBX is an alcoholic. Has he stopped drinking? Fast forward. "He has his car..." IMHO, just about everyone who drinks alcoholicly and has a driver's license has driven while under the influence. How are you going to keep him from DUI while the kids are in the car during these custody arrangements?<P>If STBX is still drinking, how can you be sure that he will be able to hold on to that position of VP or better until the kids are through college?<P>House: Generally speaking, because of the expenses of purchase and the expenses of sale, it isn't a good idea to buy a house unless you plan to live in it for at least five years. In terms of real purchasing power, money is almost always lost in short term ownership of a home. True there are exceptions, but those occur most often in the field of speculation, not home ownership.<P>Have you considered talking to a credit counslor? I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there are some real red flags in the way you say the money is handled. Your house isn't extravagant for the kind of income you folks have. Have you ever sat down and tried to figure out what is happening to $125K + each year? With a spending plan and a little discipline, I'd bet that all the credit card debt can be paid off within a year. Might not be a bad idea to just cut those credit cards up and stop using them, period.<P>Have you tried to figure out what your net worth is? You can get a free market appraisal on the house from just about any realtor. Figure expenses of sale will be at least 10%, so only calculate 90% of that number. Then add the fair market value of everything you own, cars, savings and pension plans, (401k, etc.) From that number subtract your mortgage balance and everything you guys owe, car loans, credit cards, Uncle Sam, etc. What is left is what you two have left to split. From the sounds of your post, it ain't much!<P>One of the ugly rules of divorce is that the ex-wife almost always takes a financial beating. This would be a real good time to start learning about personal finance. You are going to need to know what is going on and understand how to handle it BIG TIME. No one can learn it overnight.<P>I wish this didn't sound so darn harsh, but I'm trying to get across the need for a reality check time out.<P>Bumper<P> <p>[This message has been edited by Bumperii (edited April 25, 2001).]

I'm going to echo Bumper here. You really need to take stock of your spending practices. $4500 a month is an awful lot of money to live on. I bet with some planning you could survive on less than that. I know I do. I also agree about the credit cards., Get rid of them. See if you can negotiate a lower rate. Work on the back taxes to see if you can get some relief.<P>Since he split, I think he owes you support, but you need to figure out how you can survive without it, 'cause you may have to.<P>I know this sounds tough (it is), and you can't fix it overnight, but it can be fixed. <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Thanks for the replys - I'm in no way offended. That's why I asked these questions in the first place. I *know* everything is a mess...and I'm trying to take stock and form a plan. <P><B>Dana</B>...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What kind of interest rate do you have on the mortgage? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's at 8.9% - its an ARM, it was 6.75%, but went sky high when adjustment time came around. I've been trying to get H to refinance for a while. I think he was set on getting enough to cover some of the credit card debt too though, and he was getting turned down because of no equity in the house. I'm not on the mortgage, so there's nothing I can do but nag, which I have been doing for awhile.<P>I'll post my budget down below, so you all can get an idea of where the money is going.<P>I know I can't count on support...but for the time being, I have to. My plan is to work on getting myself independent during this time. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Anyhow, those days are over, and I'm a single mom now. I get very worried when I hear women talk about wanting to remain home with the kids after they are a single parent, no matter how much the ex makes, and even if they were a stay at home parent up til now. If something happens, and he doesn't want to pay you that much, I have seen twice personally where a man has given up a 100k+ job to go work for 40K just to avoid paying all that money to the ex spouse<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well remain home sortof. I'm not talking about spending my time at home sitting on my behind letting my H support me! <P>I'm already working part-time from my home right now, but making very little money. That's going to change also, I've just made an agreement with someone to act as my business manager. He's going to find me the clients, and handle my back office needs. Unfortunately, although I am *very* good at what I do know, I don't know enough. I need some time to learn and expand on my knowledge. I may need to take some college courses.<P>That's why I am not planning to stay in the house. I am going to move near family, so that they can assist me with the children while I get myself on my feet. If I stay here, I'll be dependent on him longer and for more.<P>So I am short term, going to be very dependent on my H's support. <P>I obviously made quite a few mistakes over the last 10 years by allowing myself to be dependent on my H. I'm not going to be independent of him overnight, it's going to take some time. So here I am, asking questions, and trying to figure out how not to make anymore mistakes!<P><B>Bumper</B>... <P>I wouldn't ask the questions if I wasn't ready and willing to get smacked around with the answers. Better to ask and get informed than to fumble in ignorance.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Think about something for a minute. In previous threads you mentioned that your STBX is an alcoholic. Has he stopped drinking? Fast forward. "He has his car..." IMHO, just about everyone who drinks alcoholicly and has a driver's license has driven while under the influence. How are you going to keep him from DUI while the kids are in the car during these custody arrangements?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can't keep him from doing anything. I am truly powerless over this. My atty and I had a long talk about what I could do about visitation and custody, and unfortunately, because there is no criminal history, no DUIs (he's a very high functioning alcoholic)...there's nothing I can do.<P>My H did want 50/50. I'll fight him tooth and nail in court if he asks for that. But right now, as it stands, we have been separated for over a year, and I have had full physical custody the entire time. My kids have never spent more than a few hours at a time unsupervised with him. I've been very careful to establish a precedent. Most of my H's current visitation is in our home with me present. <P>The best I can do is to agree to EOW (which he will be satisfied so he says right now), and keep my relationship with him cordial, so that I can be involved as much as possible. I have to let my kids go with him, and pray. <P>I did put his alochol abuse in my divorce complaint. It probably won't matter...in fact my lawyer told me that it won't. But at least I've got it there, so if in the future, I have something else to use, I can also point to that.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Have you considered talking to a credit counslor? I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there are some real red flags in the way you say the money is handled. Your house isn't extravagant for the kind of income you folks have. Have you ever sat down and tried to figure out what is happening to $125K + each year? With a spending plan and a little discipline, I'd bet that all the credit card debt can be paid off within a year. Might not be a bad idea to just cut those credit cards up and stop using them, period.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>We haven't used credit cards in almost 3 years. Our credit card debt used to be almost 25k. So 13k is just what's left. We don't have any open charge accounts any longer, and the ones being paid off are being paid through Myvesta.org (debt counselors). <P>The same with our federal taxes....we were roughly 13k in back taxes, now its down to 7k. <P>He has only been making 6 figures for the last 2 years. The first 5 years of our marriage...he made roughly 20k while he was in the Navy. We were on the WIC program just to afford groceries.<P>Later, when money did start coming in, I was in charge of the money, but clinically depressed, and he was drinking. Not the best way to manage is it? Anyway, we've been slowly digging out of the debt and the bad credit reports ever since. So actually our financial picture is very much improved from 3 years ago.<P><B>Cooker</B>...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm going to echo Bumper here. You really need to take stock of your spending practices. $4500 a month is an awful lot of money to live on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok, here's how the money gets spent!!! <P>Geez, thank goodness for the anonymity of the net!!!<P>My H's monthly income after taxes, insurance, and 401 deductions is $6200.<P>$6200<BR>-2350 mortgage/utilities/taxes/maintenance<BR>- 295 auto ins<BR>- 300 school tuition<BR>- 700 credit debt and back taxes<BR>- 535 H's rent<BR>- 425 both auto payments<BR>- 900 groceries/gas/misc living exp<BR>----<BR>$695 leftover, which my H lives on (his food/gas/misc exps) and the rest which he blows on booze, bar tabs, entertainment etc.<P>He has complete control of the money right now, he just doles out to me what I tell him I need for bills. <P>Even if he wasn't overspending....there's not THAT much left over. <P>I don't live extravagantly AT ALL.<P>I do plan to move to a cheaper place. I'm going to look for a townhome for the kids and I in VA. It won't be THAT much cheaper though, our home is VERY modest...maybe a couple hundred a month less tho... <P>Would any of you suggest that I just walk away from it all - let him have all the assets and the debt? And just worry about monthly support?<P>He's expressed a willingness to shoulder the taxes and credit debt - and since our networth is probably negative - I guess it would be fair to just let him have it all?<P>Thanks again for taking the time to think about this for me. I'm really trying form a real plan with achievable goals that will have me fairly independent within 5 years. I appreciate the lessons and the hard cold dash of reality. <P>------------------<BR>--BR<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I><p>[This message has been edited by BrambleRose (edited April 25, 2001).]

I have to echo some of your responses. To be honest, I just about dropped when I read your monthly expenses! Geez, I have daycare costs, a higher car payment and I work outside the home so my clothes are more of an expense, not to mention transportation costs etc....and I don't spend that much each month! 125K + bonus seems like more then enough to cover your mortgage etc... Hubby and I don't make that much after child support and our home is pushing the 300,000 mark! You are correct, the two of you are financially burdened and I know each state varies so I'm proud that your checking into your particular state. In my State they do not give you a break in regards to your child support for the time that you spend with your children. Heck, my ex could have the kids 80% of the time and still pay his required cs. But, Dana is right.....a person can get out of paying high amounts of child support if they want pretty easily so you can't bank on what the courts tell you you'll receive.

Well, I don't know where in VA you're moving to, but here in Hampton Roads, a nice townhouse should be less than a grand. Unless one of you has a 'vette, $295 seems a bit steep for insurance. You might want to think about public school to ease tuition burdens. And $900 buys a lot of groceries & gas <P>My STBX is living on less than 1/4 of what you're talking about, so it can be done. You may need to do a bit of lifestyle adjustment, but living well doesn't have to mean living expensively <P>If he'll take the debt on to win his freedom, I'd give serious consideration to letting him have it. Just make sure you do an accurate asset to debt analysis first.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

BR,<P>Thanks for responding that way. My kids are raised and educated now, so its hard to make a fair comparison. I've only been in the income bracket you speak of for a year and a half myself, but in that time, with a little planning, I've put away 75K in after tax dollars. When I quit drinking, it was the biggest single pay raise of my entire work life! I intend to retire at the end of July.<P>Where are you in NJ that your car insurance is that high? That is about what I'm paying in Philadelphia for a car and the pickup truck I used to see before my youngest son got a driver's license. My daughter is in Ocean City, NJ and isn't paying anywhere near that for a new minivan and a 2000 Olds sedan. <P>Your credit may not be as bad as you think. The fact that you went to the debt counselors and are getting this stuff paid off rather than personal bankruptcy is a giant step in restoring your credit. You are definitely on the right track and on the way back.<P>I've been divorced for quite a while now, but I still remember what it was like the first few years after the divorce. I finished raising three kids by myself, and didn't get any CS from ex wife at all. (I was making four times what she was.) One of the first things I did was hit the local stationary store and pick up a three dollar home budget book. Then I got one of those calandar pads that takes up most of your desk. Sometimes it was buy it new, wear it out, make it do, and do without, but if the money wasn't there, it didn't get spent. <P>Couldn't agree more with c00ker about getting a thorough debt-liability analysis as the first step. It is kind of like taking that personal inventory, find out where you really stand first.<P>Good Luck!!<P>Bumper

2K+ for a housepayment???? Yikes - sell the thing - it's dragging you way down. Both of you could afford houses for the amount you're putting out in ONE payment.<P>I have a teenager and a 10 year old and commute 40 miles a day to work - $450 is about what I spend for food and the gas to commute - you work at home...I think a lot of radical downsizing is necessary. Can't have champagne all the time on a beer budget, as my mother used to say.<P>Equity valuation is a very contentious divorce subject - someone always feels like they're getting the shaft...just sell, sell, sell.<P>If you are in a community property state - you may not have a choice on assuming 1/2 the credit card debt, but you should also get 1/2 his retirement.<P>Your child support figure is what my entire take home paycheck amounts to after taxes...IF you get alimony you should absolutely be able to live off that total quite comfortably - and if you cannot - you need to look at YOUR spending, not what you and stbx used to do.<P>Just my $.02...good luck.<P>Lisa

BR,<P>I'm happy to hear that you plan to be independent in the future, that is very good news. I again hope you didn't take offense by my comments, I just know so many women who want to live the exact same way after divorce and realistically, it just will never happen, and women always have a lower standard of living after divorce, well , women with the children definetly. <P>I think you got some GREAT advice so far.<P>As for the house, that is an awful high payment on a $140k house, even at that interest rate. I would start by calling a realtor and telling them you might list it, and get an appraisal. These aren't as accurate as a real appraisal when you buy/sell houses, but its close. I might have a link still, where you type in an address (even your own) and you can see what the purchase price was and the last time it was purchased. You can run all your neighbor's addresses too and see what the area goes for. Then I would call the mortgage company, and find out what the approximate payoff would be and see if you are upside down. I think it generally does cost between a minimum of 6 and a maximum of 10 or so percent to sell your house with a realtor. <P>Before I go further there, I'd ask the mortgage company when your arm is up for review again. Mine started at 5.75 and is up to 8 myself but I can't afford to change it. As far as I know the rates are lowering down, you might find that you are going to get a decrease automatically soon. Also, if not, I agree, unless you'll be there 5 years, it might not be worth it, but a specialist there can tell you that.<P>Next, if your going to sell the house you can look into America's Choice. This is a program where you sell your own house for $695. My friend did this. Instead of paying $4k she got to keep that extra money. They provide the signs and paperwork, attorneys, but you hold your own open houses, which really is cool. I like meeting the owners of the house when I go, because they can tell you things your realtor might not know. My friend and 3 others had great luck with it. I think you would just run a search for Americas Choice.com on the web. If not, I have that link too.<P>Next, car insurance...OUCH! Someone mentioned your h drinks. Is this high price because of a conviction of some sort? If not, I'd call up progressive auto insurance and geico. Geico will give you an online quote and progressive will tell you the lowest quote , it may not even be with them. I think you could get this debt lowered, BUT keep in mind, when divorce goes thru, you both lose multicar discount, so if you don't get looking before, your insurance will even go up if you didn't switch insurance companie's anyhow. <P>Also, your figure for your monthly debt, included your h's living too so that was misleading, realistically, you could come up with a lower figure when you factor in a different house payment, etc. So that's GOOD news! <P>I would call around to where you are going to live, maybe some apartments, townhouses, whatever and get some prices. You can usually call the utility company and find out the budget with any address as well. Factor in your own living expenses when everything gets split. This will be very important for you to know.<P>My friend moved to NJ from NY and moved back because it is way higher to live there. So if your talking about moving, that might help you out too. On yahoo's home page, there is a relocating type search engine that lets you see cost of living for any area, its pretty neat. <P>Lastly, I would be cautious of the irs tax debt, because I got killed with that from my ex, he stold $4k return and stiffed me with a $1k bill and NO ONE there would help me. I don't know if a court would relieve you, or have the power to let him say, ya I'll pay that if you walk from the house. I would go to the irs website and look that up too. If you are NOT going to get out of that debt, and I know for a fact, you can't get out of joint credit card debt either, not without a bankruptcy, then all those people will come after you. If you give up your right in the house, and then that happens, you left with nothing.<P>I guess once you decide if your relocating, or just getting a different place to live, you could sell the house and split the profits, and maybe try to pay down that debt. Possibly if you could try the America's choice, maybe you could wipe one debt out all together and both be relieved of it.<P>This is the worst part about divorce. Its a financial nightmare. Everyone suffers in it, not only the children and the loss of a family, but with lifestyles as well.<P>I am amazed you have an H that is still paying bills for you. When mine left, he closed his direct deposit, emptied the bank, and never came back. I've been on my own ever since. <P>If he just got that kind of pay raise recently, that is very logical that you owe so much from past living expenses, but I don't know what you would get in alimony, he hasn't had the job very long, but its worth a try to see what you can get.<P>I work from home myself, and its not easy. I have to be so careful and I am looking to go back to work outside the home myself right now.<P>I'm sorry if I sound skeptical, but my ex is the master of beating the system, and I know so many friends, not even from this site, that have been really taken for a ride once the divorce papers were final, and even if the spouse is obligated to pay, they can get around so much, long enough for you to lose your shelter or car or who knows what. <P>My ex left me once at 21, and I bought a house while I had 2 kids under 3 and had a great job and even though he left me in a nightmare, I got out of it. I was so strong and independent. When we got back together, little by little, he talked me out of that independence and even though I made ok money working from home, he became the center of my life again. When he left this time, he really hit me with financial devestation AGAIN and this time I swear I'll NOT let myself get in that position ever again.<P>I also wonder if you can go to college again, or a job training certificate or something, because he may be obligated to help you get on your feet, since you were taking care of the kids while he was moving up. <P>Good luck, I think you are doing the right thing by checking it all out now. (i don't know I'd tell him you posted it though) <P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

<BR>Ok, couple of things! ;)<P>I'm in NJ, and NJ is equitable distribution. It's not 50/50, its based on who did what during the marriage and who can afford to pay..etc.<P>NJ has the HIGHEST auto insurance rates in the bloody country!!! Geico and many other national auto insurance companies won't even sell insurance in NJ. And I just heard the other day that 15 companies are getting together to ask for another rate hike...:eek: $295 a month provides full collison/comp for my 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and his 96 Ford Taurus SHO. I have a perfect driving record, while my H has had his drivers license suspended twice in the last three years, (unpaid tickets) and several parking and speeding tickets. I expect it will be cheaper without him! ;)<P>I am moving the kids to public schools. I don't know what the schools will be like in VA, but where I am, the Catholic school is miserable. I was impressed to discover that the quality of the education is far higher in the public school.<P>More savings..hmmm...<P>My Jeep is a gas guzzler...it runs me roughly $25-30 bucks a week to keep it gassed up. I do alot of driving - and I'd love to trade it in for something with better gas mileage...but I owe alot more than its worth...AND my H just told me today that he refinanced it last week!!! ACK!!! He got the bank to spread the remainder of the loan back out over 5 years!!! <P>My H is only thinking of the monthly car payment, and was trying to lower monthly costs...but we already owe so much on it, and I want out from under it....<sigh><P>Any ideas on how to get out from under this?<P>As for the house payment....my mortgage payment is only $1600 - the $2350 number is what it costs to "operate". It includes everything...taxes, insurance, utilities, cable, telephone, lawn care, maintenance costs...etc. I calculated it using the form my lawyer gave me to determine what I spend to live.<P>Let's see what else....oh the credit card debt is not in my name! I'll be sure to get things specifically outlined in the settlement. <P>Hey <B>Bumper</B>...I use Quicken - I wouldn't know how to manage my finances without it. I use it to pay all my bills, and I use my check visa card everywhere - so when I download my bank transactions, everything gets categorized, and I really have a pretty good handle on where the money goes. It was SO helpful in writing up my financial picture for my lawyer - I was able to document every number I provided. Budgeting though, I could use some work on...<P><B>Dana</B>...any links you can provide would be great. I'll be sure to check out America's choice. Do you know if YHD.com is a good way to go? I may just call Weichart, since they are the biggest realtor around here, and ask them to give me an idea of the worth also.<P>Thanks for the advice about the IRS...I'll check into it. However, the last 2 years, we've gotten a refund, and they have just automatically applied it to our back taxes. Didn't see a dime of it!! BUT, I don't think my H has even BEGUN to think of what this divorce is going to do to him tax wise....so I probably need to do a very careful CYA on this. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am amazed you have an H that is still paying bills for you. When mine left, he closed his direct deposit, emptied the bank, and never came back. I've been on my own ever since. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My H is a sick, diseased man, not a bad man. That's the frustrating part for me... In fact, MB helped me SO MUCH with understanding my feelings toward him - he's treated me so outrageously over 10 years, and yet I still loved him!! Everyone talked to me about "emotional dependency" and while I'm sure there was some truth to that...what I discovered is that he still does some things (albeit badly!) that does put deposits into the ole Love Bank. It was a relief to find out that there was actually rhyme and reason to the way I felt!<P>In his own sick way, he is trying to do what's right by me.<P>I have to admit though, I agree with your skeptism. I'm just waiting for some new woman to get her claws into him and start with the manipulations. He's soooooooooo easily influenced that way. His OW was writing up "Battle Plans" for him and all kinds of crap. She literally held his hand, marched him down to her bank, and got him his own checking account to keep me from having access to money...<P>When she disappeared, he went back to being a decent guy with the financial support. He told me that they used to have bitter fights over his continued financial support of me..she was really trying to get him to cut me off.<P>So this is why I am being careful and trying to get my ducks in a row. I am hoping for the best, but planning and trying to make contingencies for the worst.<P>He's darn right clueless and irresponsible. So I gotta be prepared for that at least.<P>Thanks so much for all the advice. I sooooooooo appreciate it!!!<P>(((hugs to all)))<P><P>------------------<BR>--BR<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

<A HREF="http://www.americaschoicehomes.com" TARGET=_blank>www.americaschoicehomes.com</A> should get you started until you find your area.<P>As for the car insurance, I'm not surprised, my friend moved from NJ, just over the border because it was so expensive there. <P>Good luck! Dana<BR>

<A HREF="http://www.jobs.com/Resources/RightNav_frame.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://www.jobs.com/Resources/RightNav_frame.asp</A>

Dana, thanks so much for the links!!!<P>(((((hugs)))))<P>------------------<BR>--BR<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>