OK,<P>I have come to a turning point in my life. The next few weeks/months/years will be bringing many important decisions for me. Keep in mind everyone, the issue of my faith - it is strong and it has gotten me through all of this. I need to be true to my beliefs. With that said, I am troubled about which direction to go... I am not looking for the answers here, mainly I am writing this for two reasons: 1) The more I write/talk about it the clearer I hope it will become and 2) To give anyone who is thinking similar thoughts some comfort in that they are not alone. So here goes...<P>My whole life I dreamed of having a family - a wife, house, children, etc... I still feel that calling deep within me. Seeing my wife two nights ago really made me realize that the love I have for her is not based on "lust" or on desire or even desperation. It is just that we both seem so comfortable around each other - so natural - like we just "fit". But maybe I really am imagining that she feels the same, because contrary to what I believe, she has followed through on the divorce. But what does that mean for me? Do I stop loving her because she stopped (or is trying to forget) loving me? What if I can't stop loving her? I don't think I want to stop loving her.<P>I told a couple people this, but a few weeks ago I met a girl much younger than me (21 yrs) out at a bar. To make a long story short, she was showing me a LOT of attention and I ended up back at her place. We messed around A LITTLE. Nothing serious happened. It was the beer and my emotions and my needing attention that did it. I told her that night what was going on with me and that it was not a good time in my life for her. I have not spoken to her since, nor do I really want to (already raised one that age ). Why do I write about it here? Because it gave me a sense of knowing that I can meet other women and I am not afraid of being with someone new. Rather it is just that I don't want to right now. What was worse though was the amount of guilt I had in doing what I did. Here my wife has been dating a guy for quite a few months and I ended up feeling guilty for just kissing a girl - knowing that I was going to be divorced? The whole next day I felt like *hit...<P>I guess it all goes back to: if I believe so much in the vows I made to my wife and to me and to God before the divorce, now that legally they are null and void, morally how much do I continue to let them bind me? Everyone, and I mean everyone of my friends and family already has someone for me to "meet" and go out on a date with - it is actually quite humorous to think that my calendar could be filled for the next few weeks with different women if I so chose And that is sooooo far from what it was like before I met my wife But is it right?<P>God hates divorce. He believes that marriages are forever "til death do us part". My wife left me. Am I supposed to choose among being on my own, or waiting for her to return, or to welcome the opportunity of a new wife sometime down the road? If I choose to marry again, will I simply be rationalizing my situation, like us humans are SO good at?<P>One thing is for sure - the questions and issues I know did not end yesterday when I signed those papers. I think the previous issues have now only been replaced with newer ones. I really believe these issues will be with me for a long, long time. Kind of like the waves from a rock being tossed in the water, they keep moving out from the center but never seem to disappear.<P>I know I need to be true to myself - I guess I will be praying harder than ever now for God to show me just what that needs to be... For now I will remain still and "listen" - and keep listening until He points me in the direction I am supposed to go.<P>As for closure - Nope, none. Stinks, but to be honest, I did not expect it - at least not for me...<P>What a mess....<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike, <P>I have a brief thought for you. I know you are praying and praying and praying a lot lately, to get the answers to your questions, but are you listening? Have you sat quietly and patiently and silently and listened for the answer? I know I have a LOT of trouble doing this, because I want the answer I want when I want it, and I don't want to sit quietly and wait on God--it's "easier" to be busy, busy, busy and just keep whirling away. <P>I have complete confidence in you--you are a man of integrity and strength of character, so I know that God will answer you. I'm even sure that you will have the courage to DO what God tells you and what so few people will do. But you may need to quiet yourself and quiet your heart and quiet your spirit in order to hear God whisper to you.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mike}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P><BR>CJ<P>P.S. Don't get yourself twisted into knots about the cute girl, okay? That was just God's way of reminding YOU that you are a human, that you still have the capacity to love and be loved, and that you are still interesting to chicks! Remember, God created us to want to love someone and be loved by someone, so it is exactly within God's will and way for you to want to love someone and be loved by someone. Okay? Plus, let's be honest, it's fun to be reminded now and then that you are an interesting, attractive person--it's a cool compliment! So untwist the undies, okay? <P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

In my experience, it doesn't matter how much you pray for guidance, God tends not to give you direction until right when you need it.<P>When I'm driving, I like to memorize the directions for the entire trip, and review each upcoming turn as soom as I've made the previous one. God is like a navigator who refuses to reveal my destination and who has a habit of saying "turn here" just as I'm about to drive past.<P>It's...disconcerting...<P>Mike, it's great to see you learning so much from your experiences. I believe you have the right perspective. Whatever "moving on" means, it does not include betraying <I>yourself</I>.<BR>

CJ,<P>From your mouth to my ears! I spent almost 4 hours yesterday on the boardwalk, doing nothing but listening. I must have walked about 5 miles just "being". I know that yesterday unfortunately will be a day I remember for years to come, so I wanted to make it memorable. But you are right - there is so much "racket" in my mind from my thinking, from my family and from my friends that I truly have to concentrate and focus on just "listening". For the next few weeks I feel that is just what I am going to do.<P>The strange thing about the past two days though is that while legally and logically I knew that this was the "end", the feelings I had deep inside were the total opposite - like this isn't over - somewhere sometime down the road, we will meet again... It is just a feeling I had.<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike,<P>Looks like our paths have crossed again my friend. I have been lurking here from time to time and just happened to pop in today like I was being pulled. I read your other post and will respond to that one in a bit as well, but I wanted to respond to this one first as it is close to my heart.<P>Shortly after my divorce became final last November, I became involved in a physical relationship with a woman I had met several months before. Up until the divorce we were merely acquaintances, but after, the relationship turned physical. I never saw any long-term potential in this relationship and a big part of it for me was a way for me to “break away” from my ex. I felt lost, lonely and betrayed by my ex’s actions and I figured that being with another woman would help me to forget. <P>Well guess what? It didn’t. In fact, I actually felt worse about myself on some levels. I never really felt guilt that I was doing something wrong or betraying my vows, rather I felt shallow and like I was just using this other person to make myself feel better. I also felt bad laying in bed next to this woman and thinking to myself that this was NOT the woman I wanted to be with. Needless to say, that relationship ended about as quickly as it began and although I enjoyed the feeling of being with another person, those good feelings did not offset the bad.<P>I realized that I was not ready for a relationship and decided that I was not going to go out looking for someone to replace my wife. I needed to feel 100% comfortable in my own skin and knowing what I wanted as an individual before I considered sharing my life with someone else was a major issue for me. I posted awhile back the question, “Is it love or the dream of love” that I was missing in my life. Like you, I have the dream of the perfect family life. A mere year ago I was engulfed in that dream, even thinking about having kids, not having any idea of the direction my life was going to take. What a difference a year makes!<P>I was blindsided by my ex and that pain is something that will probably take me years to fully recover from. I don’t know that I will ever get over that pain completely, but I know (as it already has) that it will fade with time. You shared a thought with me a number of months ago (actually from the Love or dream of love thread) which really made me think. Now I would like to quote a very wise man for your benefit:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>Starting to look inside of myself I realize that every person I gave my heart to at one time or another, still has a small piece of it. The amazing thing is that my heart has not gotten any smaller even with all these pieces missing.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know you still love Amanda and a part of you always will, but in time, you will allow yourself to love again. Just don’t rush it. You told me once that I was still young and had no reason to rush my life. If I remember correctly, I am still a bit older than you, so if I am young, then you are younger which means that you have time as well. Getting out and meeting new people is fun, exciting and natural. Just take your time. Your life was turned upside down just a year ago and the finality of your divorce is less than 48 hours behind you. Just let yourself grieve and things will take their course.<P>Your faith in God has done wonders for me over the past 10 months, probably more than you will ever know. Don’t stop believing in that faith or his power. You have come a long way in the past year and your journey is just beginning. There is nothing which says that once the ink is dry on your divorce papers that the pain will go away. You have just graduated to the next step. Feel the pain, accept the sorrow and just remember that all things happen for a reason.<P>I still keep in contact with my ex and we do happen to see each other from time to time. Whenever we part, I always get a long, deep hug which just feels natural and comfortable like we were meant to be. But as time goes by, I don’t miss her once she leaves, I don’t constantly wonder about our next meeting and I don’t really wonder what she is doing when we’re not together. It’s like I’m seeing her in a different light now that everything is said and done. I still physically see her as the woman I married, but she is no longer the same woman I fell in love with. And in many ways, I am no longer the man she fell in love with either.<P>I am a firm believer that God will not give people more than they can handle at any one time and that he puts people in our lives at certain times for specific reasons. As I mentioned before, after my “fling” I was not determined to go out and meet anyone new or attempt to start up a relationship. I figured that I would know when the time was right and God would lead me in the right direction. And wouldn’t you know it, when I was expecting it least, someone very special entered my life. I still am not looking for that certain relationship or for that one person to just fill a void in my life, but this woman is just too special for me to look past. I’m honestly not sure where this relationship with her will lead, but the future looks promising. The two of us are able to communicate very well with each other and based on both of our pasts, we are proceeding with caution. <P>When certain feelings arise, instead of burying them like I have in the past, I welcome them and try to understand them. I have become more in touch with my emotions over the past 10 months and have learned a great deal about myself. As a result of the most painful experience of my life, good things are starting to happen for me. I have been dedicated from the beginning of this whole ordeal to better myself and to learn more about relationships so that I never have to go through something like this again. I still don’t believe that a divorce was the right decision in my marriage, but since it was out of my control, I’m playing with hand I was dealt and I’m doing it very well.<P>I expect for you to continue having some ups and some downs. As with others, the ups should be higher and downs won’t be as low. It’s still ok to feel the hurt and experience the feelings for your ex. I highly suggest that when you feel the tears, let them go. It’s ok. I still have bouts of tears occasionally, which seem to come from nowhere. As much as it still hurts at times, it’s also cleansing and therapeutic.<P>Give yourself some time and when you are ready, let your friends fix you up on a date or two. Just go out and have some fun. Don’t worry whether your date will be your next wife, just enjoy being out and meeting new people. Before you know it, when you least expect it, someone special will be staring you in the face as well!<P>Buckle up, Mike…..it’s your summer <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited April 25, 2001).]

Shawn,<P>I have been hanging around here at work as if something told me to stay. Now I know I can leave for home. Thank you so much for your words and for your stories - Just as with you, I have learned so much from our discussions and posts. I try to explain to people about this site, but it is so hard to put into words. The sense of being "somewhat anonymous" I think really relieves the pressure us men have of opening up. I can't remember how I initially found this site, but I am soooo glad I did.<P>It does feel like I am on to a new frontier. And I am ready to explore all that it has. I'll be honest in that I felt no closure yesterday and still feel a little lost - Still can't believe it actually happened. Still don't feel like it is all over for us - just don't know. I know I am not holding on to some crazy hope we will get back together, it is just that there is something deep down telling me to let her go - someday we may cross paths again.<P>So that is what I have done. She is off to California (Florida became boring I guess). I wished her well and told her I'll miss her. [I know I will].<P>I'm glad to see that the tide may be starting to turn for you. May God continue to bless and keep you.<P>Thanks for stopping by!<BR>Have a great night...<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

I want you men to know something...it's encouraging for me to know that there are SOME men out there who actually take the time to look at what went wrong..and what their part in the ending of the marriage was..and Your faith in God and turning to Him during your hurt and pain..and not turning to a bottle..I think if my stbxh would turn to God and seek Him<BR>and learn from the mess of all this..it could work..but alas..not all men are alike..<P>Your ex-wives will one day see the changes in you and the growth you have made..and will wonder..why did I let such<BR>a wonderful "christian" man go??? <P>I envy those women the chance of having that..I just can't believe they threw it away..it makes you all the more attractive..

Mike, <BR>As I said above, there is nothing which says that once the ink is dry on your divorce papers that the pain will go away. I have been divorced now for 5 months and I am still not convinced that I have closure to the whole thing. And like you, I still feel lost at times. I know that I am more healed today than I was 5 months ago, but I'm not as healed as I will be 5 months down the road. Healing is a process and it just takes time. <P>I don't know if I will ever fully understand why my life took the turn that it did, but I need to quit questioning that now and just focus on my future. The past is the past, it's over and it can't be changed. The future is an open book, the ink hasn't even touched the page. I still have a choice as to what happens in my life from this day forward and I'm tired of wasting my days thinking of what "could have been." I'll cheerish the memories, but the time has come in my life for bigger and better things.<P>You continue to be an inspiration to so many of us and you have touched many lives over the past year. Just keep doing what you are doing and you will be fine. I have complete faith in you.<P>Thorned Rose,<BR>If you were referring to me as one of those wonderful "Christian" men whose ex's let slip away, I just wanted to set the record straight. Although I am a wonderful man ( ), I am a wonderful "Jewish" man. Don't worry, I am not attempting to get involved in any type of religious debate and I am not at all offeneded by the comment, I just wanted to clarify my religious background.<P>Thank you for the kind words.... <BR>

SoTired,<P>Last time I checked...you became biblically exempt from waiting for your wife since she had an affair...it is one of the allowable reasons for a divorce.<P>With that out of the way...you don't sound like a man ready to start dating...too much too soon...still pining. Nothing to be ashamed of - I just don't think you're there yet...don't rush it. You'll know when you're ready.<P>Take care of yourself in the meantime.<P>Lisa (aka Soon2b)<BR>

Mike,<P>I felt like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders when the divorce became final, but I also had the same issues that you have now.<P>I don't think you ever have to stop loving your exW. I don't know we can ever stop loving anyone if we once loved them very deeply. Maybe bury the love or not recognize it, but I think it will be at least in a tiny place in our heart. <P>In time, you will start to heal and feel whole again. But not before you feel all the feelings that are going to come out . I don't remember if it was your post or someone else's, but "rebuilding when the relationship ends", is a great book that helped me a lot when I became divorced.<P>I always had the fantasy of the house, the family, the family life. My H didn't want any real part of that. It was me who kept everything together. Now that he is with OW (engaged) he does want it, and its rather disappointing, but I'm still going to hope that I have the life I want one day. So can you. And I think we all will have these things again one day, when the time is right for us. <P>Take some time alone for you to heal , that will be the best thing for you right now, but also take time to be with your friends and family too.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Jayhawk,<P>Thats okay...I have nothing against Jews..God chose the Jewish race in which to bring my Messiah..Jesus Christ..<P>But, you have leaned on God Almighty in which to heal during<BR>this time..and to seek answers..and the answers are there..<BR>And that to me..is what is important..<P>I know that the book of Isaiah has helped me tremendously<BR>during this time..very comforting..especially Chapters 53 and 54 and 55..

Thanks everyone for your words of encouragement. I do know that things will be alright, hopefully soon - but the timing is not up to me.<P>To all those of you out there who are on the fence about God and His existence, let me give you a little story about last night. I left work and went to my gym to workout. On my way home I cross over a little drawbridge that has a $.50 toll. I cross this bridge about 4 times per day back and forth. I have been crossing this bridge almost everyday for the past five years. Last night as I was driving a song came on the radio which of course reminded me of some happy times I shared with my wife (I think it was Stevie Wonder's "I just called to Say I Love You"). The song brought sadness in my heart, but at the same time a big smile on my face just thinking about her. I began to wonder what it will be like without her in my life and where I go from here. And I said a little prayer.<P>Well I pulled up to the toll-booth and reached out to hand the man my money - He looked at me with the strangest "look" on his face. He asked me if I knew the man in the car in front of me that just drove off. I said "no". He said well he must have known you because he just paid for your toll.<P>I quickly caught up to the car and looked at the make of it and the license plate - I did not know anyone with this type of car. Plus it was pitch black out and he was in front of me, so he could not have possibly seen or recognized my car. Just then I felt a feeling come over me that told me, "whatever happens from here on in, you will be OK - trust me". Needless to say the tears began falling quickly...<P>........did I mention that in all five years (4 times per day, almost every day of the week) I have crossed that bridge not ONCE has a stranger ever paid for me........<P>His miraculous ways...<P><BR>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike,<P>I told you God would send you a ministering angel, but MAN, God has a funny sense of humor, doesn't He? Who would have ever thought that the angel would be driving a car on a bridge that you go over 4 times a day! Now THAT is funny. I thought angels had wings and flew around, but I think this one needed wheels! <P>How is your day today? Want to join the mutual support society?<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Sotired,<P>I too struggle with the same issues that you've outlined. With my divorce becoming final this coming Monday, I feel like I am just not prepared. I really have played no part in any of this, it's like my life plan has been decided by another-the man I vowed to love forever and ever & he vowed the same to me. He took it upon himself to make a decision that will forever effect my life-and mabey someday he'll realize it has effected his.<P>My friends and family are also trying to me fix up, I know that they mean well and I have even dated a few times. But I can tell that I just am not ready. Like Jayhawk said, you have to be comfortable in your own skin, 100%. Something I definately am not, yet. I am unable to come to terms with the fact that I am now divorced. Like I actually thought my husband would all of the sudden come out of his fog, realize what he almost lost, and bring a grinding hault to the proceedings.<P>On Easter, I was with my family. My dad hasn't said a whole lot, he is an extremely wonderful man with the biggest heart and I know he hates to see me in such pain. He is completely baffled by what my husband has done. My parents have been married 40 years, have 5 children, been through so many trials and tribulations, yet when the chips were down, they pulled together and at this point in their lives are just about as close as two people could be. My dad & I were off alone for a little bit, and we were just chatting and of course he wanted to know how I was doing. I began to share & he put my face in his hands and told me what a wonderful person I am and how he saw that I gave my marriage my all, I began to sob; why couldn't my husband see that. Why couldn't my husband see that??????<P>I too, have dreamt of the husband, children, house etc. That desire hasn't gone away. I'm 32, and spent 13yrs. with my husband, I still love him and at this point I too don't want to stop. Almost like I want validation of our union....it WAS real. What I hate is that by my husbands actions, these ugly thoughts creep into my head that it didn't mean anything, our marriage meant nothing and could be thrown away.<P>At one point, when my H and I were still living together-divorce in process, in my grief I asked him if he ever really loved me- He was angry that I would even ask that, of course he loved me, he wouldn't have married me if he didn't.<P>My husband was a man of faith and we shared the same beliefs. My faith continues to be strong and is what has seen me through my darkest days (and those yet to come, I am sure). I will continue to pray and seek the Lord's direction, as this is an extremely confusing time. <P>Sorry for the blubbering<BR>I really wanted you to know that I am basically right where you are at. <P>Petrie

Petrie,<P>I think a lot of what helped me through this all, and still does today was my decision to focus on "MY" love for my wife and not her love for me. You see I came to the conclusion that I have full control over my feelings and my love. We all do. We choose everyday to love someone or not to love them. The being "in love" theory I think refers to the times in our lives where we are both "loving" each other the same amount at the same time. That is why I think it is natural to fall in and out of being "in love" often throughout a normal marriage. But lets get back to focusing on my own love.<P>By just loving my wife, no matter what she was doing or saying, or even how she was acting I learned an important lesson. Even though I was sad without her, I never grew to hate her - I still don't. I pity her, I feel sorry for the decisions she is making (I feel sorry for us both in that respect), but I have no control over her. All I can do is be who I am and that was a man who loved his wife. She chose otherwise.<P>Things in my life began to change this past year when I took CJ's advice and gave my marriage up to God. It helped relieve me of the burden of always thinking about what I needed to do to fix my marriage. Once that burden was gone, my heart began to fix itself. Sure there was an emptiness in it and there still is today and I feel certain there always will be a certain emptiness, but I feel at peace.<P>I don't care what everyone tells me - I don't care if some think I can't get over her - I don't care if everyone thinks I am so sad all the time. For those people don't really know who I am. I feel strong in my faith. I feel strong in knowing that next time I stand at the alter (and there will be a next time either with my X or with someone new), I will be able to make those vows once again, knowing, absolutely knowing that I can do what it takes to keep them "until death do us part". If my wife marries someone new, will she be able to do the same?????<P>Trust in yourself, trust in God, trust in love. It may seem like they all have let you down, but they really haven't - It was your husband who failed. But don't be mad at him (or try not to) because we are all human and we all make mistakes. It is a sad truth, but there is nothing we can do about it.<P>One final think about not having anger in my heart is now when I remember all the memories my wife and I shared, I have a good feeling and a smile on my face. I am sad, don't get me wrong, but there are no mean, nasty feelings eating me up inside.<P>God Bless and keep you. You will be in my prayers this weekend. One final tip: If you have to go into court, keep your head held high, hold the door for someone, say something nice to your husband's attorney, look to go out of your way for everyone that day. By helping others you will be helping yourself. And if the tears come, let them come.<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

By the way everybody, just so you all know that I "walk my talk", yesterday I sent two letters out: One to my attorney thanking him for his services, his treatment of me, and for his humor throughout the whole mess. The other letter was to my wife's attorney. I thanked him for treating me always in a professional manner. I told him that while I did not agree with the divorce and don't believe in divorce overall, I understood that he was only doing his job. And I thanked him for providing my wife with his counsel and his comfort at a time in her life when she needed both.<P>I'll bet that will be the first time he ever received a letter of thanks from a defendent in a divorce case!! <P>But that is just me - a little strange and twisted but overall a good guy...<P> <BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Thank you Mike,<P>Like you, I don't have anger in my heart, and I have wonderful memories that run through my head all the time, I think this is God's way of helping me (& you too) through this. Kind of like when I'm feeling like I will go over the edge, I get a little glimmer of hope and pull myself back. We will find happiness again. <P><BR>Thanks again for the kind words.<BR>Petrie<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>The other letter was to my wife's attorney. I thanked him for treating me always in a professional manner. I told him that while I did not agree with the divorce and don't believe in divorce overall, I understood that he was only doing his job. And I thanked him for providing my wife with his counsel and his comfort at a time in her life when she needed both.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wish <I>I</I> would be able to do that when the time comes. But <I>my</I> wife's attorney has been caustic, obstructive, and unprofessional.<BR>

Mike! You sound like a punk rock band:<P>Twisted Mister! <P><BR>(Sorry, I couldn't resist) <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<P>No far from it! 6'2" - 220lbs, crew-cut brownish-blonde hair.<P> <P>But I'll never "knock" Dee Snyder!