Because I really do. All throughout our relationship my h and I were really good friends. We spent more time laughing, talking and just buddying around then a like to think about. We were each other's shadows in the same way childhood best friends are. Lately I just miss him in that respect. There's a big hole in my life where long conversations and ten minute side-hurting-gut-busting laughs used to be.<BR> I know everyone says their relationship with their spouse was special but I really feel ours was. We very rarely fought, save for some really stupid inconsequencial things and we had everything in common. Things didn't go South until the OW appeared. <BR> I envy people that say their relationships were rocky for a couple of years before d-day, at least then I could rationalize the strange behaviour. But all this came out of nowhere and hit me like a train, I couldn't have seen this coming if I tried.<BR> I really miss my old buddy, divorce really blows.

Nduli2,<P>I can totally relate. I just came from my sister's house. My divorce is final as of tomorrow and I was reminscing about my 13yrs. with husband (my whole adult life, thus far anyhow) Like you, my marriage was a real good one until OW came into picture. I totally understand, this, not being able to attribute the demise of your marriage to years of fighting or just not getting along.<P>SO many good times we shared, laughing so hard, understanding each other so well, being comfortable with each other, building dreams together and a future. Where did it all go wrong? How did it come to this?????????<P>Whoa, now I am reduced to tears. I knew this would happen because of tomorrow.<P>Nduli, I understand you completely, and I too miss him terribly.<P>Divorce sucks<P>Petrie<BR>

Sorry guys... that you're faced with this. I'm glad for you that at least you have the memories of happiness and true friendship. I am one of those who has never felt that fully with my spouse. I guess that's why I'm in the boat I am in... You've had it once... therefore, you are capable of being IN it... believe me, you will have it again. It takes a friend to be a friend and I believe ladies, you truly knew what friendship was all about. Here's a hand...<P>------------------<BR>We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

I almost wish we never had that bond because when the other breaks it out of the blue you wonder why forever.<BR> Today got to me, it's so beautiful out and I took a walk by the river and spotted a bunch of turtles sunning themselves on the rocks. Me and my h have always been weirdos and one of our little weird things was going to the lake about three miles from home and basically harrassing the local wildlife. Turning over logs and rocks to find snakes and salamanders, netting the painted turtles in the lake and looking at them and letting them go. I can't imagine I'm going to have a relationship like that again anytime soon. <BR> We were just so perfectly goofy together and this whole seperation/divorce thing is just so damned screwed and wrong and stupid, I just want to shake him and tell him to get off of it already it's me, remember me? Remember all the trouble and fun we used to get in...why the hell are you doing this?<BR> It's so frustrating and obvious and I just wish someone would give him a kick in the [censored] and wake him up.

Once upon a time he was my best friend.<P>I missed that long before he ever left. <P>He quit talking to me. Turns out he was talking to another woman.<P>Yeah, I miss my friend. I miss the person who I could share anything and everything with. <P>~Amy

I know what you mean. Sometimes your such a good friend to your spouse that you go to them for every problem you have. But what do you do when they are the problem? Who can you go too when you best friend is the problem?<P>------------------<BR>Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

I am going to step out on a limb here and say <B> NO! </B><P>She still doesn't cease to amaze me how bad her judgement is, how manipulative her speech and actions are, and how<BR>non existant her standards and expectations are on our kids.<P>When I was a little down, she didn't know how to help.<P>when I asked for her opinion on decisions, she couldn't help very much. When I told her i trusted her opinion on something, she would freak out.<P>now why would i miss her?<P><BR>OK, for those of you who couldn't see it coming,<P>1) did the WS have a dysfunctional family? or divorced family?<P>or<P>2) was your WS a social outcast in high school and/or college?<P>these are two telltale signs that can be glossed over or talked over, but really linger in the subconscious and can be ignited in a casual acquaintance.<P>

I'm with <B>out of the fog</B>...<P>I miss the man who was my friend... and that stopped so long ago that I can't remember it...<P><B>Sheba</B> talked about being outside on the steps of the courthouse, after the divorce was final, and saying to her ex-H "NOW can I have my friend back?"... This was monumental to me... and EXACTLY how I felt.<P>Yes, I miss the man who once upon a time was my very, very best friend.<P>...and I do wish him well... even if he can't do the same for me right now.

That's odd....<P>Because there are some places where I actually agree with WhenI too!<P>I remember crying about things, and he'd go off to play on his computer. Or I'd be feeling really down and upset about something....need to talk....and he'd be wanting to play on his computer. Or go off to do his martial arts.<P>He never seemed to have an opinion about anything. Or he wouldn't defend his opinions. (Hey, I have a BS in Political Science --- I like to argue and 'discuss'/debate things.)<P>As for WhenI's questions:<BR>1) We're probably both from dysfunctional families.<BR>Me - youngest of 4, by 10 years. Plus I found out as a adult that my mother had divorced and remarried, and that my oldest sister is a half-sister. We were all raised as a 'family'. Mom doesn't know that I know about the divorce and all.<BR>Him - youngest of 7, raised mainly by the older sisters (so says his mother). All of his good memories of childhood seem to include his brothers and sisters. His parents generally are not involved. Some kids thought he was raised by his grandparents.<P>2)Social outcasts?<BR>Yeah, both of us pretty much were. Not so much outcasts, but misfits. I think we both sort of hung around the other misfits. <P>One big difference, he had a girlfriend all the way through high school. I didn't; never really dated even. Most of the misfits were guys and we simply did things as a group. I guess you could say that I just hung around with the guys. In fact, I get pretty mifted when I'm excluded from things because I'm a woman. They definitely knew that I was female and treated me well, but they also knew that they could talk about anything around me. Girlfriends, crass jokes, relationship problems, etc. I was a confidant, comforter, and counselor ----- a friend and a leader.<P>And then to his friends judge me, ostracize me. Because I speak my mind?! Because I disagree with them and am vocal about it?! (We could agree on goals, but not on how to reach those goals. They're cold-hearted and will run over people without care. I have a problem with doing that.)<P>I was brought up to think for myself. And since I wasn't part of a real clique in high school (like the cheerleaders or athletes), I don't think I was ever put in a position where I had to toe the line.<P>Yeah, I was in Scouts and we did things as a group there. But we always tried to provide for variablity within the group. And no one 'forced' you to do anything. No one plotted vengence against you if you disagreed with them.<P>So, I was forced out of my husband's clique of friends. I feel that that is the breaking point of our marriage.<P>We did everything together. With me not being welcome back there, no matter what overtures of kindness I made, we weren't allowed to be a 'we'. I could no longer be an integral part of his life.....'his' life, not 'our' life. He didn't want to change in order to preserve our marriage.<P>I liked doing stuff with him. He didn't like doing stuff with me.....unless it was something he also wanted to do.<P>So, he says that I 'forced' him to do all sorts of things. That I made him give up things for my goals. Without him ever regarding the give and take nature of the relationship. Without him ever considering what I gave up for him to do what he wanted to do.<P>He says that I tried to control everything. Truth was, his desires controlled everything. He controlled the money. His martial arts came first. He didn't talk about the problems in our marriage. He didn't want to attend counselling. <P>But I have to admit that I had my moments too. <P>It seemed like we got into this constant battle of wants and needs. Neither of us being able to see what the other really needed. Neither of us wanting to give up control....or wanting more control. <P>I remember hating that I felt powerless where money was concerned. Not knowing whether there was enough money to buy this or do that. Always having to ask his permission. <P>When we were dating, I was the one with the money. In the marriage, he had the better job. But he felt that I should be making more money than him.<P>I don't know. Once I said 'no more' to his friends, everything else went to pot.<P>I just don't understand how a person can let their 'friends' have so much influence over them. Family should come first. [Only the policy of his family is to stay out of each other's personal life unless intervention is specifically requested. So they end up NOT talking about their real feelings.....just how the person can achieve a specific goal.]<P>I don't know why we're apart when we have the best reason in the world to be together.....our daughter.<P>I hate what this is doing to her. <P>I hate the kind of message that this is sending to her.<P>I hate that he's done this to our family. But I don't hate him.<P>I want him to grow up, change as the demands of his life change, accept responsibility, and BE with me, TALK to me, SHARE with me...... let us create OUR own life, together.<P>Why does their friendship mean more to him than our marriage & family?<P>~Amy

Hi all,<P>I saw this post this morning and couldn't stop thinking about it all day, so I am back to respond...<P>I too miss the person my husband was pre-affair. The days I miss the most are the ones that consisted of him calling me at least 6 times a day from work to tell me what he was thinking at the moment or to discuss what "we" would do when he got home. <P>I also miss the talks we had once the kiddies were in bed and the closeness we shared that I foolishly thought would never be broken.<P>I miss cuddling in bed before going to sleep and hearing him tell me how much he loved me and how great of a wife and mom I was, and me in turn telling him how much I loved him and how much the kids and I appreciate how hard he worked for our family and how he always put "us" first.<P>I also miss our all too infrequent getaways that we always looked forward to together. <P>I miss our plans and excitement to work on our house together. We always liked to do those projects together and it always seemed like so much fun and now planning a project to do myself seems like such a chore--not to mention that my attorney has advised me to not do any more improvement projects as to not instill any more equity.<P>I miss our carefree after dinner walks with the kids in tow around the neighborhood.<P>I terribly miss the man my husband used to be. As I was thinking about this post today I couldn't help but feel so empty thinking about this special person who is no more, it is almost like mourning a death in a way. I am now stuck with a stranger who my husband now has become and one I would never ever pick to be my friend, not to mention my husband. Everyday I hope I will see a glimpse of the man that used to be and yet I never do...<P>When is it okay to give up that hope that the people we married and loved are gone forever????<p>[This message has been edited by Wifeofcop (edited May 01, 2001).]

My ex still thinks we can maintain our same very close friendship. He still calls alot to talk(like I really want to hear about his new life)and to check on me and the kids. I just can't have that type of relationship with him. We were the very best of friends for 17 years and he blew it. Maybe I'm selfish but it's all or nothing for me. I think he has kind of gotten the hint because he leaves messages and I don't return them or if he calls I find a reason to get off the phone. He has a new wife now to talk to. A new "soul mate" to share his life with so let him talk to her. I have better friends, ones that don't **** on the people they promise their lives to.<P>Jill