Hi friends,<P>Well those of you who were so wonderful to reply to my last thread may be reading this as well. If so , thank you for sticking with me on it.<P>Well, I had all these high hopes that I could get thru this, that I knew how, that I would do it. But now the real pain has set in. Now I have pictured them together. Now I have begun to feel the real pain and now I dont' think I can handle this.<P>Part of me wants to at least try. Part of me thinks that he knows best and will be the one to say lets quit this. Either way, I'm not thinking clear to make that decision on my own right now, but I am very sad.<P>I didn't realize that I was this down until yesterday, but I found a depression link online, and I have been this bad for a good 2 months. I didn't even realize some of the symptoms I have were from depression. <P>I don't even know why I'm writing except to say that yes, it did hit me and I dont' feel so strong anymore. <P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

I truly hope you don't feel down on yourself for not feeling strong; you have been through so much, expecting Herculean strength from yourself is asking too much.<BR> You have every right in the world to feel betrayed, dissapointed and angry. As for the depression, you should be seeing a professional and perhaps getting some meds. I'm on the way there myself at this point.<BR> *Sending you electronic hugs*

Hi, I'm online for a bit right now... and I'm glad I saw this...<P><B>Dana</B>,<P>You know how we talk about pain is pain is pain? Well, betrayal is betrayal is betrayal... and it SUCKS. <P>Can I give an honest opinion? And remember, this is from someone who is deeply involved with someone new (engaged)...<P>You aren't married to him yet and he's broken your heart by betraying you. If you had been married, the same stuff that we were talking about a year or two ago would apply... yes, your heart aches, and yes, it *feels* as bad... but... it isn't the same as having that "till death do us part" paper in your hand and having to deal with it.<P>If my fiancee cheated on me now, before the marriage, I would throw the ring in his face and leave. I have no idea where I'd go, but I would go. Yes, I'd be brokenhearted, and yes, I'd have to deal with all the self-esteem issues, the STD issues, well, every issue... but I would GO. I have NO DOUBT about that. <P>I know you're depressed, and probably need some meds to get over the hump. Do that!<P>When you get over that hump, you will realize that you're worth more than this. <P>Hear me Dana, I **know** you're in love... but this has happened now for a reason. Think about the reason. Are you suppose to see something now, before it gets deeper? <P>I hope this doesn't hurt you. Lord knows we all have enough hurt to go around... I do NOT want to add to your pain.<P>I offer support no matter what you choose to do. NO MATTER WHAT!<P>I do care... and I hope you can read that with this message.<P>

Dana,<P>I agree with what NewBeg has written. As I enter this new chapter in my life; young, single, dating, I have alot of questions and fears. The fear of putting myself out there and then being rejected or worse yet, betrayed.<P>I won't say that I will "never do something", or predict how I'd react in a certain situation-that kind of talk only comes back to haunt you. I just hope that if while dating I am ever faced with betrayal, I would have the strength and courage to stand up for myself and leave. Again, I say "hope".<P>Believe me, I am the type of person who when in love will do all it takes to work it out, and take the stand. <P>Only you know if this is a "workable" relationship. Right now you are hurt and depressed (totally understandable) and it is a hump that when you get over, you'll see, like newbeg said: You are worth more.<P>Try not to be hard on yourself, you have been wounded-thus you're not at full strength.<P>Don't know if I help at all, just know that I do care.<BR>Petrie

Dear Dana,<P>My dear you have been through much and don't deserve it. Not much more to say. Sheryl put it well. I will be here to support what I can. <P>I do understand about the pain hitting you broadside. Mine came while I was in the shower. Hit like a ton of bricks and I cried like a wailing mother that lost her child. Oh it was soo hard. That feeling of abandonment and shame. Yet not even by my cause, still I was left to deal with that pain. You have felt it before and to feel it again is not easier. <P>Allow yourself this grieving time. Work withe the doctors and when you are ready you will know. In the meantime, post as often as you need. My e-mail address is out there on the JFO listing. If you need me, let me know. I am a newbie but I would also like to talk to you about your job thingie (only when you are able). Maybe some pointers or direction. I am always on the lookout for good people in this business. Makes my life a lot easier..... (ok selfish thought). <P>Seriously, you take care ok? The others can look after us and when you are stronger I know you will be back to keep us in line with your wonderful posts. I will forever remember you as the wonderful lady who along with Kevin basically saved me with your posts about the 19 step process to adjust to the loss of a love. I have shared your posts with more than I am able to count. <P>See you have made an impact. I wish we here could all tell the people in your life, how much you have helped us (faceless friends) here at MB. It does take a 'special personality' to reach out and help someone like you have. <P>Thanks again and now please take care of yourself. <P>L.<BR>

Ladies,<P>Thank you all for the replies. I am very sad right now and not really thinking clearly. I understand that from the outside looking it, it really would seem best if I just leave. <P>But what is hard is that everyone I know cheats on each other. I'm not talking about here either. I'm talking about in life, most of the people I know, all but maybe 2, cheat. I have never cheated so I don't understand it from the other end, but the wonderful WS that come here to share with us, help me to understand it also.<P>I believe that we are all human and make mistakes. If he had cheated with ANYONE other than his ex, it would be an easy choice. If we had been together longer, it would be an easy choice. But our relationship is relatively very young and the strong sense of trust and bond was not built yet. Can it be built still? Who knows. All I am saying is that I am the type of person who forgives people. I told him the first night we talked, if he decides its completely over with the ex , if he is positive of that much, I'd be able to try to work thru this. I also told him that I've been thru this before and I understand much of how and why. I met him too soon after the split up and I should have known better . Again, had they been split up longer, this would be different. But with all the factors involved, I believe this will bring complete closure to that whole relationship once and for all. <P>Sounds like I can make a bunch of excuses for him right? Maybe thats all they are, but I am willing to forgive him. That would be the first step. We haven't discussed "us" and if we're going to do that yet, and I don't think we will, which is what I'm grieving for right now. So I have stepped back and given him space yet again and told him I wouldn't contact him til I heard from him.<P>Well he's moving today and confronting the necessary people and this will no longer be a secret. Many lives are going to be changed and really my part in it, really is minimal. The issues he's facing are so much bigger and I want him to deal with it all first, and on his own, then we'll talk about us and if there is to be an us. Right now, I feel there won't be.<P>This world is a very sad place. It breaks my heart to think that true love brings such pain. I am not saying I am perfect, I make terrible mistakes all the time, but I do believe that being faithful is very important. I am also speaking of being faithful to your friends and family. Not sleeping with friends SO's, or family members SO's and just realizing that if a relationship is bad, then fix it or walk away. This cheating and affairs, is also a serious life threatening risk that many people don't stop to consider.<P>With that being said, I'm thankful for my friends here. I know this place would bring him great peace but I have posted too much already, and I need it for my own annonymous place to be, so I can't pass on the website, but I may give him some books to read.<P>To anyone who wants to write to me, my email is missdmbrown@aol.com. I am too drained to search on JFO right now, I just popped in to read, cry and reply for now.<P>But you guys don't know how much it means to me that you are here to help me. I know the easy answer. Walk away, leave and heal. The right answer is to pray to God and ask for HIM to give me what is right. And my answer, to pray to ask that we work thru this because I believe we still have something special. Its a tough situation all the way around.<BR>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Dana, I don't know all your story even if I did I wouldn't remember it right now. My wife filed on me last week and moved out yesterday. I don't know if she had an affair. She says she hasn't but some of her actions make it seam as if she has. I truley can feel every once of pain that you feel and I know that at this moment life really sucks. Everything I ever wanted drove out of my driveway last night and just left me standing. Like you, I don't want to walk away. I must now look out for my best interests, but I don't want to admit that it's over. In my opinion, we too have many good things that are worth saving.<P>All you can do is put your faith to work. Trust fully in God and follow the path that He sends you on. This is scary. I can't believe that God would have me walk on the path that I am on but there must be a reason. Yesterday tested my faith and I passed. I helped her move. I was very nice. I cried all day long. When she left I told her that I was sorry it came to this and that I will always love her. That night I prayed for her. <P>I hope that your down period is only for a short time and remember there are plenty of people out here that love you for who you are.<P>(((DANA)))<P>God Speed,<P><BR>Love, Bill<P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

Dana,<P>I am sure I have posted to you in the past. But it has been a long time. I have read your post about your BF's betrayal of you, and of what he is going through. Just sitting here and not being in the middle of it, I have very mixed feelings.<P>If you would permit me I would like to express some of them. <P>First, your BF wasn't "committed" to you in a formal way, this is important for you to understand. I will get to that in a minute. But please realize he didn't "cheat" on you in the sense of breaking a formal commitment. Yes, he sort of two timed you, and that hurts, but remember the other part.<P>Second, whether your BF "cheated" or not, what he is now going through will not make him a suitable candidate for quite awhile. When you are betrayed by your Spouse as you know it is like death.<P>I know you realize this. Your BF is going through something that few can imagine, I really cannot. He will be damaged greatly by this in ways that are hard to predict. There will be a tendency for him to hang on to the only decent thing in his life, YOU. Don't let that happen, without him having lots of counseling. He will need it.<P>Now, The Student, mentioned that it is the "right" thing to do to try and rebuild the marriage. You tried, many here try, and I suspect that his "cheating" on you was of that element. In fact, you have as much as said this as well, she was trying to get him back. Your details are intentionally fuzzy so it is hard to make more of a statement than that.<P>Here is my point. You were not officially "cheated on", as much as you were the victim of him trying to do what is right with his family. I know it still hurts, BUT he like you has not broken his marriage vows. I want you to remember this. It is important, your exH cheated on you broke the marriage vows and destroyed his family. From what I know your BF has not done anything like that. It is clear that his attempt to see if there was something, hurt him very badly and made him feel very about hurting you, hence he withdrew. <P>So it isn't you Dana. In some ways he tried what he should have tried. Restore the marriage, you were the victim. So I know this is of little comfort to you, but let it be some comfort. He has come to you and has been honest about an unimaginably painful series of events in his life.<P>So to end this I am going to give you conflicting advice. But I think you will figure out how to unravel it. You need to be very careful with BF, he appears to be a man of some honor, caught in a terrible situation. He will/has been damaged by this, at it won't be clear how damaged for months to come. Don't get heavily involved until the level of damage as been deteremined.<P>However, if he can heal from this, he does seem like a man worth marrying. So keep that in mind. It seems you haven't picked a loser. You just picked a man with a conscience caught in a truely awful situation.<P>I hope that some of what I am trying to say comes through. Dana, I know you are sad, but it seems to me he was doing what he had to do before you two got to the commitment stage; see if there was any hope for his marriage. He found out more than he ever suspected. So try to look at this in a more positive light. He does seem to have character, it truely wasn't you, and you are still young. You have time to allow healing and this relation to work, and you have time to decide to find another.<P>Just pray for him, and thank God you were never in a situation that may cost you not only your marriage, but even your brothers, and other family. <P>Take heart Dana, things will improve.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited May 05, 2001).]

Hi DanaB,<P>As usual, JL finds a way to say things better than I do.<P>I was out in the yard, planting my flower garden for the summer and got to thinking about your situation.<P>In the long run (as JL suggests) you want the kind of man who doesn't let go of marriage easily. I also agree that your BF needs help from an objective, qualified professional to get through this. I went back to your other thread and read somemore details about BF's ex-wife. Wow. Betrayed by two people he cared most about in life. <P>uh,oh...here comes an analogy Lifeguards are trained to save drowning people. One thing that sometimes happens when someone is drowning is that they will literally push down the other person in their efforts to stay afloat. Lifeguards know how to hold onto a drowning person (or even temporarily disable them) in order to save their life, without also being drowned themselves. A good counselor is like that too. In the hands of a helpful and brave novice, unfortunately it sometimes happens that both end up drowning. I don't want to see that happen to you. Your BF needs a good counselor... I feel for him very much, and for you too. Take care...

I am so sorry Dana. There is NO way you can fix this one on your own. I can think of very few examples of a situation more complicated than this one. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but this one is a major league problem. He has to have counselling. Very, VERY good counselling. And so do you.<P>There are times when a hug is the best I can do, and I'm sending one your way now, but if you think he is the one, and you want to make it work, I can think of no girl more determined than you. But he has to want it to. More than anything in his life. That's the tough part. Separation from the conflict is also critical.<P>I'm so sorry Dana. You have to do what is best for you and your kids. First, foremost and forever.<P>TS is right. SAR swimmers are taught how to immobilize a struggling victim. So we can get them out of the environment that is dangerous to them. Something to think about...<P>{Dana}<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Dana,<P>Why are you giving this man so much control over your life?<BR>Like when to end it? Looking at Faithfulwife's post<BR>on "Protecting Your Heart" your not protecting your heart..<BR>your giving it away to someone to trample on. <P>I realize you care about this man a great deal..but at what cost to your own health are you going to allow him to basically control you? There are other men out there who will love you for you..and who will want to actually spend time with you. (and as I write this I realize I am writing it myself as well) <P>Maybe it's time for you to tell him..enough is enough..if you want to be with someone else fine..Yes, I love you..but I can't make you love me..but I love you enough to want you to be happy with whoever you are with..<P>

TS, thank you again for replying . <P>JL , I completely agree with all of what you've said. I am very hurt, but believe me, I don't feel anger. But you are correct, we are not married. This is partly why I am willing to work thru this with him, if we find that we can do that down the road. Right now, we haven't discussed the "us" of it. I feel the initial blow and the other issues have to be worked on at this moment. <P>Anyhow, I agree also with Thorned Rose, and thank you Nick also. Counseling is in order for sure. I don't know why it has such control on me but it does.<P>I thought many times he was "the one". I don't know that I believe that many people are capable of being faithful anymore. I wonder after all I've seen here, if I feel comfortable ever believing differently. But I can't say that I would walk from him just because he betrayed me, because it was surrounding his kids, and all that, and not a stranger of sorts. He is such a very good guy, I know you don't believe me after this, but it doesn't surprise me that he would have at least saw into the option of working it out for the kids. <P>Beyond all this, if we break up, he was my best friend. I've said it before, I felt for him a different kind of love than even my own H. If I felt this with H, my marriage would have been different. I also just felt very drawn to him and very peaceful whenever we were together. We had a lot of great times and goofy moments, and I will continue to be his friend through this all even if we split up as a couple, that I've already decided. <P>Hugs to all, and JL I do remember you posting to me about the space issue. Thank you for writing again, you always understand what I'm talking about.<P>Hugs to all, Dana<BR><p>[This message has been edited by DanaB (edited May 06, 2001).]

PS Thanks to everyone for writing me personal email ,anyone wanting to write to me, feel free to at <BR>MissDMBrown@aol.com<BR>or<BR>survivingangel28@hotmail.com<P>hugs, Dana<BR><p>[This message has been edited by DanaB (edited May 06, 2001).]

danab,<P>What is that saying in the Bible about casting pearls before swine? While I don't think your BF is swine, I very much do believe that he is not in a state in which to recieve your gifts. It often happens after a divorce that people try to recreate a committed type relationship prematurely because they are trying to replace their marriage. I say prematurely because a couple has to go through a number of steps (IMO) before a commitment of this magnitude is warranted. In our loneliness, it is easy to want to skip those steps.<P>This is why I caution people not to get too involved too fast, especially after a divorce, but also in general. You didn't know him well enough to see this whole situation play out. There is one other thing I'm confused about now too. <P>He's not divorced? You said that his relationship has been over in many ways. It doesn't look like it, does it? Even when a divorce does happen, sometimes it's not over. I held out for my ex for a good year and a half after my divorce. It has only been in the past 6 months or so when I felt deep down that it was really, truly over. <P>"TS, thank you again for replying . I had to go and edit what I wrote but JL has given the big part of my promise of secrecy away"<P>I wouldn't edit out anything you posted. You made a promise (even if I think it was a misguided promise and I wonder what compelled you to make it...) and you didn't keep it. You clearly need some guidance on this, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here. I'm sure you don't want to be a liar to your BF--or maybe this feels a little like revenge. In any case, I don't see the point in editing your posts. You probably would be better served, however, by going to a counselor instead of posting here. Not only for your and his privacy, but it can be kind of distracting getting so many opinions like we do here. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited May 05, 2001).]

Dana I will edit my post as well. Sorry about perpetuating this issue. Do listen to what TS, just said. I believe she is dead right.<P>Yes, There are marriages where cheating doesn't occur. This board is not a good sampling. What is true that cheating does lead to alot of divorces, but it seems that many marriages do recover.<P>So have some faith Dana, it does happen, I know from experience, not all marriages involve cheating.<P>Hang in there and:<P>God Bless You and Your Children,<P>JL

Hi again Dana, you still up?? <P>While I make no bones about fact that I disagree with both TheStudent and JL on part of what has gone on here (just look at my prior post, and then theirs, and you'll see what I mean), I completely agree with them both about the honesty issue. <P>I'm sure that it's the last thing you want to do, but you will have to tell him the truth about what you've written here. Not this moment, of course, but eventually, you will have to tell him -- especially if you want to continue the relationship with him. Total honesty, you know.<P>Again, as I have told you both here and in emails, I am very, very sorry for your pain. I do consider what he did as cheating, ex-wife or not. I do NOT see it as "trying to save his marriage" if I am understanding the series of events correctly. I'm sure someone will tell me if I have misunderstood.<P>I am the poster girl for the rebound relationship, so I am the LAST person to speak about that aspect of your relationship, but how well I understand the road you travelled to get where you are today. You are being heard Dana, and understood. I hope that is of some comfort to you tonight...<P>Everyone here cares, do you see it? ALL OF US. <P>'Night Dana, and here's some hugs (((((Dana)))))

NB,<P>Actually, there is no real point in arguing whether he was trying to save his marriage or not. The more important issue was that he's not ready for a committed relationship. The fact that it was with his ex-wife (IMO) makes him suitable for a possible relationship in the far distant future perhaps. Time will tell if it was an effort to have his marriage back. The fact that he told Danab what happened, and that he wants to take time off to get his head together means to me that he is a responsible person who is very, very confused. <P>This illustrates exactly why I don't recommend sex without a commitment. We are sitting here arguing whether he "cheated" or not. He has not made a commitment to her. He has lied about being exclusive. Is DanaB even sure he made a promise to be exclusive? Alot of people mistakenly "assume" exclusivity once they start having sex. See what I mean? It's a big 'ol mess, something that is much easier avoided if you get to know the person well beforehand. I don't take leaps of faith anymore when it comes to my personal health.<P><BR>DanaB,<BR>That's another thing. You need to go get tested, if you haven't already. Your county health agency will do an AIDS test (and maybe a few others) for free. Keep in mind that you will need to have another one in 6 months. <P>

Oh yeah <B>Student</B>, I hear you about the sex issue, and AGREE too!! All I've ever said to you is that not all men are alike -- some are together enough to give your heart and body to.. and not have your soul ripped to shreads in the process (along with your health). The fact that Dana's BF was confused does not mean that **all** men are confused, not exclusive, or unsafe. Know what I mean?<P>I mentioned being tested for STD's on the first thread... I agree about that too... will wonders never cease?? <p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited May 06, 2001).]

Hi friends,<P>He asked me back in September if I would only date him and vice versa. He knew I was "casually" (no sex) dating a few people (testing the waters I guess). I was afraid, but I agreed. <P>As for the STD's, I've already went before bf, and since, not that I'm happy about this all, but tonite I will have a talk with another innocent party, the gf of the bf's brother. She is going to be more devastated than me, but I need to share this with her for all our sakes.<P>And friends, please lets agree to disagree. I love you all and am very sad and hurt, the last thing I want to see is all my favorite people arguing over my horrendous life! <P>I think everyone has such valid points.<P>It is just frightening to me. <P>Dana<P><BR>

I not only "agree to disagree" -- I will bow out now.<P>I realize that talking about this is bringing more pain to you, and I offer my apology.<P>(((((Dana)))))