No bowing out allowed! Talking it out is the only way I can figure things out and since I have no health insurance, and can't tell many people around me, then this is my only hope on some days.<P>Hugs and love to all,Dana<BR>

Dana,<P>I have been following this latest news in your life and I do empathise with the pain, kinda like an old wound getting re-opened....ouch....It just plain hurts!<P>I don't have much to add to what the others were saying, my take is this...<P>Relationships <B><I>can</I></B> be a very painful area. We tend to place unreasonable expectations on <B><I>ourselves</I></B> and others.<P>Maybe that is over simplified but for me I like the straight simple aproach to things it helps me relieve the garbled mess in my head. My own thinking and perseptions cause me more trouble than anything else...<P>Hang in there and work on you...you will be just fine in the end...<P>Bill<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited May 06, 2001).]

Bill,<P>Thanks for the reply. I haven't seen you posting until recently.<P>Yes, it is bringing back very bad memories from my divorce, along with fear and confusion as to how could I misjudge someone AGAIN. I must have very bad judgement . Its hard not to blame myself, and its hard not to cry right now, but I'm working on keeping busy and that helps.<P>I have several emails a day from people checking on me, and my friends are calling all the time too. Its times like this that you find out who your true friends are. Thats always something that amazes me.<P>I have taken a step back for a few days, maybe longer. I won't be talking to bf as he moved and doesn't have a phone for a few days and is off til Friday. The space and time will give us both time to clear our heads as to "whats next". It looks pretty bad at this point, but there isn't much I can say or do.<P>I find that I make things worse by mentally torturing myself too. Believe me if I had insurance I'd be on antidepressants right now, but again, not an option for me.<P>Thanks for the reply, Dana<BR>

Hi Dana,<P>Really sorry to hear you are going through this, but I had a feeling from your first post that you were going to get here. You are a pretty smart lady, and it was only a matter of time until your intelligence needed to reconcile the facts with your feelings. Neither men nor boyfriends are helpless creatures, we know how to stay out of harm's way. We might allow ourselves to get seduced, (twist my arm, please)but we don't get tricked into anything where sexual behavior is concerned. Yes, he has to be held accountable for his actions. You're in my thoughts and my prayers.<P>Just a thought on those here who disagree once in a while. They are all wonderful, and I love them because the ones who disagree with something are the ones who will respond with a post. They help me see things from enough different angles so that the "bigger picture" comes into focus.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper<P>

Bumper,<P>Thank you for your support. Yes, he has to be held accountable for his actions, no matter what they are. A new strange twist to the horrid story, it is quite possible that his exW lied about the year long affair and in fact the betrayal by sibling was only a handful of times, she then became jealous and chose to hurt both brothers by this recent issue. No one can figure out why she'd sleep with my bf and THEN tell the story of the year long betrayal, except she was trying to hurt both brothers and even get me out of the picture at the same time.<P>Again, I'm not sure what to believe , and what not to believe, I'm just taking it all in and trying to form my opinions. <P>I agree with everything EVERYONE has said, which is why I am so confused. JL summed it up perfectly, yet so did TR, so I'm caught in the horrible middle.<P>Well either way, I made my own decisions today. No more discussions of this nature with him on a night I have to watch kids all day the next day. He can speak to me on a Friday night, thats it, .... if I'm available. I'm not going to continue this torture.<P>I still can't eat, or sleep and I am throwing up all the time, but I'm trying my hardest to get some control. I started by going to church yesterday, praying for ALL of us, and I ate a tiny tiny bit. I didn't keep it down, but its a start. Thats all I can do, take little tiny steps.<P>All I know, is that I am a good person. I try hard to do whats right for everyone. I am faithful, loyal and dedicated to everything I do. I have never cheated, and I just don't believe in it. When I've felt myself slipping towards a possible betrayal, mainly emotional because I believe thats how it all starts, I've backed away, or told the person I was with that I am missing something. I try to raise my 3 daughters as a single parent, and I also teach other people's children right and wrong each day. Yet no one wants to hire me, and each man I come across, is very much untrustworthy at some point.<P>So I'm feeling a little discouraged but I am also a little angry. Angry that no matter how hard I try, or how good I perceive myself to be, its not good enough for anyone. <P>I know all these stages are normal and I'll get where I have to be. <P>I have also signed up for an 8 week class at church called "discover the faith", and I'm on a waiting list for a divorce support group.<P>I have a long long way to go. And at this moment, I love my bf so much I can't put it into words. I miss him. I miss the good times. I miss the honesty and innocence I felt before I found out all this mess. And I know that maybe I'll go on to fix this, and maybe I'll walk away. Maybe he'll walk away, I'm not sure I like any of the options.<P>Thank you again for all the support.<BR>Dana<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DanaB:<BR><B>and I'm on a waiting list for a divorce support group.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This one line just struck me as being incredibly sad.<BR>

I agree with TLC...<P>...kinda like the suicide crisis line that asks you to hold a moment...<P>Too many divorces... too many broken hearts... to much pain all around...<P>...sigh ...<P>Do you guys realize that this is but **ONE** website for infidelity? Sometimes it just boggles my mind... look how many people are here, among these boards... <spinning around in one place>...<P>All of us are just hurting people... isn't that sad?

Dana,<P>Do you have a stern father to speak with?? If not you are about to hear from one. You are young enough to be my D, so I am going to take the role for a few moments. <P>First, young Lady you MUST take care of yourself. You MUST take care of your children. If you fail mentally or physically the children will suffer as well as you. So quit worrying about this situation. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME YOUNG LADY???? You absolutely must take care of yourself and children.<P>Second, stop the pity party. Yeah, easy for guys and especially the stern father to say, but it is true. You didn't create this situation, you did nothing to cause it to happen, and quite frankly you are not part of it. You have been told this over and over by all parties responding you. So listen to them, all of them have your best interests at heart. We may not agree, actually if you read carefully we all do agree . You are the innocent victim here.<P>This brings me to lecture #3, quit being the victim. You are a big girl, you made decisions and they proved to be incorrect. I will be harsh here. You dated him for 7 months but you should have healed first from your divorce. Much of what you feel is due to the fact that you didn't allow yourself to heal and become strong from the divorce. AND because you weren't strong, you didn't take the time to learn much more about the man you were DATING. I emphasize DATING because that is all it is/was. <P>Dana, you are a good woman, don't sell yourself short. Your innate goodness will come through for you, but you must let it work in its time. You have been hurrying things, because you wanted comfort, you wanted to show exH???, you were afraid to be alone. All of these things are very normal but very dangerous.<P>Finally, lecture #5. You are not a lousy picker of men. The problem is that you are letting men pick you. You are not confident enough in yourself to set the boundaries, the standards, and the expectations. Since you are a kind and generous person, guess what? you are a target for those that aren't. Dana, go slow, you do the chosing, learn about these men, watch them with their families, their friends, and with you. You will learn what you need to learn.<P>End of Stern Father lecture. <P>Dana, take care of yourself, you didn't cause this, you didn't want this, and you are not really tied up in this mess. THis is your BF's mess, and even he didn't want most of it. Have faith Dana, you are learning and that is good.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Ah, <B>JL</B>,<P>What a great post!!<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>The problem is that you are letting men pick you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Amen JL.<P>Dana, (((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))).<P>I have no advice for you. Just prayers and hugs.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

DanaB,<P>The stern sister agrees exactly with what JL said (and he could be talking to me as well).<P>I guess the only difference is that I had to get married twice, have an affair, and go through another divorce before I learned this lesson. Hopefully your head isn't as thick as mine.<P>Protect your gifts, your heart, and especially your children.

Hi friends,<P>thanks for sticking with me still on this thread. No I don't have anyone to watch out for me, no siblings, and I admitted this to my closest best friends around me and they are all being wonderful about giving me support.<P>I am still very hurt, but I made some decisions on my own. One was to try to take better care of myself. I am trying. I'm trying to eat. That is going to take some time and work on the rest of my life before it comes back for me, but I am making an effort to at least remember when the last time I ate was. At least I can say I ate today, and not last Sunday now.<P>I'm trying to work on keeping busy. The kids have soccer 4 out of 5 days a week for 2 months, plus I'm working out 2 or 3 times a week. My friends are tryihng their hardest to drag me out, and when I feel better I will let them.<P>Your right, I didn't deserve this and I didn't cause it and I am a victim here. I am very hurt and I just can't think clearly yet. Hopefully things will become more clear with time for me.<P>I didn't heal from my divorce, though I tried. I don't know that I believe that I would ever fully heal from my divorce just because of the pure devestation of my ex leaving on xmas and that whole mess. And when I got into this relationship, I was most certainly "not" looking, and it kind of just happened . Not that I'm complaining, he came at a good time and made me very happy. But once I realized that I did get into it too quick yet my feelings were so wrapped up, I did try to keep healing and resolve some issues with my ex at the same time.<P>In the end, I feel like I failed at mostly everything, and I am very very certain that I won't be able to trust again for a long long time. That is a good point about choosing the man and not letting him choose me. <P>I did watch the way my bf was with his kids and his ex. He took his kids every week faithfully for 2 days. Buys them whatever, pays their support and was respectful to the ex. To me this symbolized a good guy. I still feel he's a good guy that was used by his ex to get revenge, but the key is... he LET her do it. He still hurt me whether we were dating, not married, call it cheating, call it two timing, he betrayed my trust in him. And I guess I do consider it cheating because we agreed there would be no sleeping with others.<P>In hindsight, I missed many signs....AGAIN. Going from seeing someone and calls everyday to every few days. Him being either really happy and affectionate (guilt) or being distant and confused (had cheated). Different hairstyle, different cologne, spending lots of money on material things. It ALL adds up just like my ex. I even re-read my journal and I wrote these signs in it, and didn't add them up, but I kept saying "something is really wrong here". I think my instincts new but I was afraid to believe.<P>Being so caught up in the middle of stuff, its hard to see from the outside looking in. But I agree with what's been said, and I am just very sad and not quite ready to admit to it all either.<P>I am only 28 years old. 3 kids , ages 10, 8 and 3... and divorced. With a house payment, a high car payment, and too much stress. I'm too young for this crap! Yet its the price I pay for having kids at a young age. <P>I'm trying very hard to keep it together for them , especially while they are awake. I have done good today. The daycare parents have not noticed anything and the day is almost over when I can crawl into bed and just cry.<P>Crying feels good. Especially since I was so numb at first. I heard from bf last night. I told him I admitted what I knew to his brother's gf. I also told brother's gf to let the brother know that I have removed myself from this point. That I feel sorry for all of us involved, the 4 adults, (2 brothers, me and his gf) and the 9 children as well. Told them that I went to church to pray for all of us and that I just had to get my say of it out so I could start to heal. At this point, I felt like a huge weight was lifted and in the end, me and brothers gf will remain friends, and she has called to check on me very worried all day.<P>The 2 brothers are at least "talking" and trying to figure out whats true and whats not. Its looking like this: woman marries husband. She likes husbands brother for years. She starts an affair with him. It destroys 2 marriages. Both marriages split up. The brother admits affair to mom. Affair ends, with the original woman very scorned. She decides to hurt everyone because both brothers are now happy and in relationships that are going well. She goes after first husband to destroy his relationship, then tells him of an affair to destroy her lover's relationship and ruin the friendship of the brothers. It is very very sick and there doesn't appear to be a genuine concern of reconciliation going on but all a huge game.<P>In the end 4 adults and 9 kids lives are devestated and will be for a long time. <P>And for me, I'm just going to try to start working past it and try to work on my own healing and recovery. I know me and bf will split up, its a matter of time. He has just moved,and no phone for a few days, until he gets back to work Friday. That gives me some space to start to clear my head. (and him too).<P>Call me crazy, but I plan to remain friends with him. Is that bad or not?<P>And you should be very proud of me, my crazy friends are trying to hook me up with someone ALREADY! I said NO WAY! I want to heal for a while and learn to be happy on my own again. I'm just scared that I don't stay mad long enough to learn my lesson, but if I have to re-read my journal over and over, I will.<P>JL I could never be mad at you for your opinion, and TS it still amazes me how far we've come, and I'm glad Sheryl didn't bail out too.<P>This is the most disgusting thing I've ever heard of, and I have to live it, and its really very very painful.<P>I am now copyrighting this story, so I can sell it to Lifetime. That or As the World Turns. Someone should like it.<P>Lots of hugs to you all, Dana<BR>

Oh Dana,<P>I'm so sorry to read of all this. I haven't been on for a while, and have started to catch up.<P>I'm so so sorry. What an awful despicable woman.<P>I agree with JL - what a great 'father' you have in him!!!<P>Yep, I agree you're too young to be going through all this<BR>sh**t, but guess what, you are, and you're doing it amazingly well. Boy, I can't begin to imagine.......<P>You do need to look after yourself, if only for your children' sakes. They can't be without their mummy, and I would go so far as to say you can't be without them.<P>I have found my children to be my little lifesavers througout this.<P>I need to go and get my eldest d from school, but when they're in bed tonight, I'll get back on and write again.<P>Just know that I think you're a wonderful person, who is handling this horrible situation with dignity and graciousness. I admire that. I admire you.<P>Keep strong my friend, and know that you're in my prayers<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

(((((((((jo)))))))))))))<P>This is going to sound strange, but when I found out about the betrayal, I swear I was on a subconscience Plan A. Now I have moved to a Plan B and stepped back and gave him space.<P>The space is helping me heal too. Don't get me wrong, I can't quit changing my mind, but it amazes me how much we learn here, can be applied to the rest of our life.<P>Thank you for writing. Life sure has changed for me since we last spoke, right? I hope your doing well, hugs, Dana<BR>

Dana, of the last 7 work days, I've been at my desk 2-1/2 so I don't know what's going on in this thread. I do know that you have not been far from my thoughts and prayers. <BR>(((((((((((((((Dana)))))))))))))<P>Perhaps I can find some better words of wisdom in the next few days - because life should be more sane soon.<P>Take care of yourself, sweetie.<P>And, just so you'll know, I'm terribly sorry that all this has happened. You know where to find me. <P>Jane-Elise