Hello to all my beloved friends,<P>Much has happened between Rich and I in the past couple of weeks, would like to catch you all up, and hopefully hear some comments.<P>My last post ended with a call from H, saying that he did not want to chase after foolish things (OW), and that he knows it is wrong. He never came out and said he is lettingher go, but he implied it, and I understood. He went on to say that he does love me, but he finds it very hard to tell me so. (I have been plan A'ing, it's our past)<BR>And, that maybe me moving will be for the best, and he also said that who know, it may only take me being w/o you for six months to want you back. He said that he could not give only part of himself, it would be all or nothing. He was very devoted to me throughout the years. I thanked him for sharing that with me, and told him how much I appreciate the honesty. I knew it was hard for him. He was pulling up to the kids school to volunteer, and said quickly, ok thats enough I am getting emotional here, I should go now.<P>That was, ahh, two weeks ago. I see the difference in him dramatically. He no longer pushes me away from him, even is occasionally aff. with me on his own. He talks to me, and is not distant emotionally or physically anymore.<P>Ok, so heres what has happened since. He planned on re-enlisting to get him through school after I leave. That fell through, a min of 3 years, he only wanted 2, plus it comes with an all expense paid trip to Korea again. So he wont do it. He reapplied for unemployment, that was denied. So he was worried about keeping our home here and how to support himself. I mentioned, abouta week ago that his mom wanted him to move back to Tx with us, and he could stay with her. They are close, plus he would be around the little ones too. He said there isnt any openings down there in a nursing prog. this year, he doesnt want to wait. He should make the list this year here. I asked if I could look and see if I could find a uni. with openings for a nursing program. Yeah sure he said. The next am the first school I called had openings for fall and winter quarter. He said great! Maybe I'll go. Then the next day he finds out that he did not make the list here at this school. Competitive with grades. So yeah for sure now he will go with us. I am thrilled.<P>Here's my dilema....<P>Friday night we were talking, and he brings up Tx. How he worries so much about our oldest D going to a middle school there with SAPD on campus. they are on all middle and high school campuses. And gangs, driv-by's, drugs, etc. These are valid concerns. They werent applicable before b/c I was trying to get them in private school, but now I cannot d/t finances. He went on to ask if I would reconsider staying here. Reiterated over and over again that he is not trying to change my mind or control me. I said that I could not live with him and not want to be his wife. To live with the fact that he will leave me after he finishes school. And I cant make it alone here, need fin. and emotional help. He said no he could live here, if we thought we could get along. I want to be your wife Richard. I want to love you like I have never shown you before. And I am very insecure about us right now. I still have hope, and nothing you do can tak ethat away from me. But to live with wondering where he is at when he comes late, and wondering if he is happy, would be very difficult if not impossible. <P>He went on to say that we could just forget about the D for awhile.But he stills see's it coming, he doesnt see much hope for us. But to hold off for the kids. He even suggested 'family counseling', which he has always been so adament against couseling of any sort. (Thinks 'shrinks' are paid just to tell us what we should already know.)<P>This invite to stay goes against what he said in that phone call about giving all of himself or nothing. I dont know what to do here guys. I am already in the mindset that moving will be for the best. Let me explian so that you all understand me....<P>Kids will be around large extended family (his), and their 2 g-ma's. Bith grandmas love them dearly, spoil them rotten, and havent seen them in way too long. His mom is working her poor bottem off geting this house ready for me and I would hate to let her down. She wants Rick here too, but she is giving me the house for me and the kids. I really believe that once I am gone, he will miss me enough to want to try again. He does love me, and admits it. Says he feels like a fool for letting me go, but has to do it. It will give me a feeling of independence living alone, possibly helping to null the feeling of co-dependence I have for him. I've never lived alone before. Also, I will not have this oppurtunity to be given a house and moved cross coutry for free if I stay here for two years while he finishes school, if he still D me. Mom will have to rent the house. And the military gives us only one year after discharge to move us for free to our home.<P>Honestly, it is hard to leave. Richard even volunteered to rent a really cheap room, so that I can stay here. I told him no ,he wouldnt need to do that if I were to stay. But I COULD NOT live in this house alone after a D. He thinks I am too sentimental. Its a family home, complete with a pool in the yard, apple tree's we planted for the kids, a playhouse complete with windows carpet and french doors, a fort for the little boy, and a yard that the five of us have spent the past 2 years redoing. Its hard to leave that behind. It would be even harder to live here alone, in "our house." To take the kids from a cul de sac that the yplay in all day, to a house on a street that they cannot play in ( main street in a sub-division in TX). Alot of loss for the kids too.<P>All I really need to stay guys is him just saying he would give us a shot. To not having it hanging in the back of my mind that he will leave me when the time is right. I know you all will probly 'flame' me for this. I do ask for honesty. And I respect the opinions/advice given me. But!! It is a need that I have. To only stay if he is willing to work on us. To redeem himself spiritually, as that is the only way to heal himself from the pain I have bore him in the past. All I want is to be his refuge. No, wait thats not true. I want his love again. And I promise to be his safe refuge.<P>Sorry this is long guys. I never gave him an answer Friday night. I have been blown away by this, and havent had the time to post about it till now.<P>PS...I just came home from work, and the time I posted this says 3:56 Am.. Its only 2 AM here, and I just came home from work an hour and a half ago. So no I am not neurotic by posting at 4 am!! Pacific standard time!!<p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited May 08, 2001).]

I sounds to me is giving it a shot, when he suggested couseling and you not moving. seems to me he isn't sure what he wants, but is willing to do something.<BR> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>Hello to all my beloved friends,<P>Much has happened between Rich and I in the past couple of weeks, would like to catch you all up, and hopefully hear some comments.<P>My last post ended with a call from H, saying that he did not want to chase after foolish things (OW), and that he knows it is wrong. He never came out and said he is lettingher go, but he implied it, and I understood. He went on to say that he does love me, but he finds it very hard to tell me so. (I have been plan A'ing, it's our past)<BR>And, that maybe me moving will be for the best, and he also said that who know, it may only take me being w/o you for six months to want you back. He said that he could not give only part of himself, it would be all or nothing. He was very devoted to me throughout the years. I thanked him for sharing that with me, and told him how much I appreciate the honesty. I knew it was hard for him. He was pulling up to the kids school to volunteer, and said quickly, ok thats enough I am getting emotional here, I should go now.<P>That was, ahh, two weeks ago. I see the difference in him dramatically. He no longer pushes me away from him, even is occasionally aff. with me on his own. He talks to me, and is not distant emotionally or physically anymore.<P>Ok, so heres what has happened since. He planned on re-enlisting to get him through school after I leave. That fell through, a min of 3 years, he only wanted 2, plus it comes with an all expense paid trip to Korea again. So he wont do it. He reapplied for unemployment, that was denied. So he was worried about keeping our home here and how to support himself. I mentioned, abouta week ago that his mom wanted him to move back to Tx with us, and he could stay with her. They are close, plus he would be around the little ones too. He said there isnt any openings down there in a nursing prog. this year, he doesnt want to wait. He should make the list this year here. I asked if I could look and see if I could find a uni. with openings for a nursing program. Yeah sure he said. The next am the first school I called had openings for fall and winter quarter. He said great! Maybe I'll go. Then the next day he finds out that he did not make the list here at this school. Competitive with grades. So yeah for sure now he will go with us. I am thrilled.<P>Here's my dilema....<P>Friday night we were talking, and he brings up Tx. How he worries so much about our oldest D going to a middle school there with SAPD on campus. they are on all middle and high school campuses. And gangs, driv-by's, drugs, etc. These are valid concerns. They werent applicable before b/c I was trying to get them in private school, but now I cannot d/t finances. He went on to ask if I would reconsider staying here. Reiterated over and over again that he is not trying to change my mind or control me. I said that I could not live with him and not want to be his wife. To live with the fact that he will leave me after he finishes school. And I cant make it alone here, need fin. and emotional help. He said no he could live here, if we thought we could get along. I want to be your wife Richard. I want to love you like I have never shown you before. And I am very insecure about us right now. I still have hope, and nothing you do can tak ethat away from me. But to live with wondering where he is at when he comes late, and wondering if he is happy, would be very difficult if not impossible. <P>He went on to say that we could just forget about the D for awhile.But he stills see's it coming, he doesnt see much hope for us. But to hold off for the kids. He even suggested 'family counseling', which he has always been so adament against couseling of any sort. (Thinks 'shrinks' are paid just to tell us what we should already know.)<P>This invite to stay goes against what he said in that phone call about giving all of himself or nothing. I dont know what to do here guys. I am already in the mindset that moving will be for the best. Let me explian so that you all understand me....<P>Kids will be around large extended family (his), and their 2 g-ma's. Bith grandmas love them dearly, spoil them rotten, and havent seen them in way too long. His mom is working her poor bottem off geting this house ready for me and I would hate to let her down. She wants Rick here too, but she is giving me the house for me and the kids. I really believe that once I am gone, he will miss me enough to want to try again. He does love me, and admits it. Says he feels like a fool for letting me go, but has to do it. It will give me a feeling of independence living alone, possibly helping to null the feeling of co-dependence I have for him. I've never lived alone before. Also, I will not have this oppurtunity to be given a house and moved cross coutry for free if I stay here for two years while he finishes school, if he still D me. Mom will have to rent the house. And the military gives us only one year after discharge to move us for free to our home.<P>Honestly, it is hard to leave. Richard even volunteered to rent a really cheap room, so that I can stay here. I told him no ,he wouldnt need to do that if I were to stay. But I COULD NOT live in this house alone after a D. He thinks I am too sentimental. Its a family home, complete with a pool in the yard, apple tree's we planted for the kids, a playhouse complete with windows carpet and french doors, a fort for the little boy, and a yard that the five of us have spent the past 2 years redoing. Its hard to leave that behind. It would be even harder to live here alone, in "our house." To take the kids from a cul de sac that the yplay in all day, to a house on a street that they cannot play in ( main street in a sub-division in TX). Alot of loss for the kids too.<P>All I really need to stay guys is him just saying he would give us a shot. To not having it hanging in the back of my mind that he will leave me when the time is right. I know you all will probly 'flame' me for this. I do ask for honesty. And I respect the opinions/advice given me. But!! It is a need that I have. To only stay if he is willing to work on us. To redeem himself spiritually, as that is the only way to heal himself from the pain I have bore him in the past. All I want is to be his refuge. No, wait thats not true. I want his love again. And I promise to be his safe refuge.<P>Sorry this is long guys. I never gave him an answer Friday night. I have been blown away by this, and havent had the time to post about it till now.<P>PS...I just came home from work, and the time I posted this says 3:56 Am.. Its only 2 AM here, and I just came home from work an hour and a half ago. So no I am not neurotic by posting at 4 am!! Pacific standard time!!<P>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited May 08, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

This is a tough decision, that only you can make. But "if" I were in a similar situation, and everyone moving was going to make that much of an issue, I'd consider staying for a few months to start counseling, then plan the move around the summer if things don't go well, to allow the kids time to settle in.<P>Although, I'm not sure if the school year is different from where you live to where your going.<P>I can respect his all or nothing comment. But he may not be holding to it, as he is very confused. Getting rid of OW was a big enough step. Maybe you could post this in the recovery board and get some insight there, possibly from other WS.<P>Hugs,Dana<BR>

Learning: I'm not trying to "blast" you but I want you to think.<P>So what if he "says" that he wants you to stay to work on "us". Is that enough for you? He has given up the OW. He has indicated that he will go into counselling. He is willing to relocate. I have a feeling that if he said "let's work on us" that you would still be very hesitant. So you need to figure out in your mind exactly what it will take for you to be with him and convey this to him. Be prepared though, if he is ready to commit are you?<P>Don't overlook some of the baby steps that he is taking.<P>Love, Bill<P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

Learning as I go,<P>Keep in mind that I am a hopeless optimist, but from what you write it just sounds too much like he is using you as a crutch. His words sound sincere, but the circumstances just raise too many red flags. If you feel moving is the best thing for you and your children, then I am leaning more towards you moving.<P>Just like someone with an addiction, the only way they get better is by first "wanting" to get better. It doesn't sound like your husband has made that decision yet. He still talks negatively about your future, but then expresses some hope. I think that for a reconciliation to work, he needs to be at least 80 - 90% dedicated to trying and believing that with both of your efforts, your marriage will be saved.<P>I think the biggest show of his true desire to reconcile would be for him to agree to move with you. To me that would be the best course of action. It would be a new environment in which you both could rediscover each other. If instead you choose to stay with him, I wonder if to him it is only out of convenience.<P>Needless to say this is a very hard issue to decide upon. As you can see throughout my post, I kept saying "I think", because I don't know if there is any right or wrong answer. My advice is to pray about it. Set yourself aside away from everyone and everything and pray. Then listen - the answer will come to you.<P>Good luck,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Hi guys, and thank you all for your support.<P>Dana, I cant wait a few months. We plan on leaving the day after school gets out here, end of June, and unfortunatly school there starts mid-august. Not much time to play with at all. It was a big step him giving up other woman. But he did it for himself, not me. And we are not in recovery. He still says divorce. But expressed willingness to wait a few years for the kids benefit.<P>Bill, <P>I enjoy talking with you so much as I think that we are so much alike. Yes, you are right, I probly would be hesitant to 'commit', just out of fear of going through this nightmare all over again. And those thoughts running in the back of my head, remembering all the cruel things he has said to me. Remember redundant distraction? You got me thinkking here Bill. How to over come those feelings I dont know. But I do know it is possible. I have effectively turned the tables here. I dont mean I am trying to control/ manipulate him. I dont want that. But I know I will be OK w/o him. Kinda in the acceptance stage, but my heart is still filled with hope. You made a good point. In order for me to get beyond my insecurities with him, we would need some time apart, so that HE can initiate this realtionship if he chooses to. Only then do I think I could have the faith in him that he wants 'us.'<P>Mike, <P>Thank you for taking the time to respond. He still says we are getting a D. I still say I have hope, and he cant take that from me. I have faith in God to restore my marraige. So H wants me to stay, but w/o working on reconciliation. This would be better for the kids. I wouldnt have to move cross country. But I have an oppurtunity now, and wont in a year or two. However, there will be many sacrifices the kids will have. <P>Yes, I agree with you about the move. Fresh start kinda thing. But Mike he is not moving to be with me. He is moving because he has discovered only recently that he cant swing it upo here financially. He is a devoted dad. Bathes the kids every night, reads books to them, plays with them. He will miss them alot. But that in itself wasnt enough for him to go with us before. Now he realizes he cant do it financially. And us staying out of convience is a good point. However it is coming from very honorable intent on his behalf. Kids stay in great schools, less traumatic for them, they still have M&D together. And he will be able to see them. <P>I prayed and prayed and prayed a few months back about going. I felt I never recieved an answer. But you know what? All the doors have opened for me down there in TX. A house of our own, given to us at no cost, I just found out my company has an office down there so I can just transfer, military will move us for free. All signs say go.

Back to the top.<P>JL, Bramble, NB, Gnome...Where are you all?

I am a little surprised to find myself saying this, and I haven't got a lot of confidence in my own advice, but Dara, my gut feeling is that if your husband isn't willing to commit to your marriage you should go. All his arguments for staying, including his talk about counseling, are just words right now. Once your door of opportunity has closed, what confidence can you have that he will follow through with anything?<P>The doors haven't just opened for you, they have also opened for your husband. He has had one excuse after another shot down, to the extent that his arguments are starting to sound pretty lame. This makes me suspicious.<P>Plan A seems to be working fairly well. It's unfortunate that your timetable is so rushed, but at the rate you are going, your husband should have gotten the message he needs to receive: you love him and are willing to be a support for him, but you will not be a doormat. What he does with that message is up to him.<BR>

Bingo Gnome!!<P>I realize that I must have some faith in him if we were to ever reconcile. But, staying here only for the benefit of the kids isnt enough. I considered that in the beginning. He is an honorable man, Gnome. If he says that he will do something, I have some faith in it. However he has contradicted himself on so many occasions lately I dont know what to believe.<P>And yes, the doors are opening for him as well. His mom wants him to stay with her. Of course, she is very much 'for our marraige', but is respecting him. He expressed to me he has a hard time 'living with ma' at his age. SO what I said! She needs your help, and it will get you through school. I believe he mentioned this b/c I told him before I would prefer he does not live with me. I dont more of this!! We do need some time apart, as even he has said that it may be what it takes for us.<P>He said before if it were to work, it is all or nothing for him.. He gave his all many many years. He mentioned 'family couseling' to "See whats best for the kids." Not marraige couseling. He did not volunteer to try. So basically it would be more of this right now. Me plan A'ing him. I am ready to get out of this stage Gnome. To either move on w/o him, or love him to death!!<P>I too believe it is best I go. He said he will go if I do. But I am very apprehensive about this. If he will see it as another "forced decision" as JL once put it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>And those thoughts running in the back of my head, remembering all the cruel things he has said to me. Remember redundant distraction? <P>Kinda in the acceptance stage, but my heart is still filled with hope. You made a good point. In order for me to get beyond my insecurities with him, we would need some time apart, so that HE can initiate this realtionship if he chooses to. Only then do I think I could have the faith in him that he wants 'us.'<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Forgiveness Dara is one of the key things you need to do. You know of the cruel things my wife has said and done but I would not hesitate in reconciling. I have forgiven all of the words and actions, most of them are done out of anger or guilt. Remember at the times these people are cruel we've called them aliens. The "redundant destraction" statement did not come from the Richard you love.<P>I do believe that your heart is filled with hope, I guess that I don't understand what type of hope it's filled with. <P>Where is your time apart that you spoke of needing?<P>I think that you need to be very clear with Richard that if this is going to work then he must initiate things and let him know what your expectations are. How can he initiate anything or meet any of your needs if they are not spelled out for him. Don't [censored] u me that he should know what to do.<P>Again, Dara, I'm not trying to be hard on you or anything today but you seem to be in a clear thinking mode today and I'm challenging you to think.<P>What will it take for you to let Richard in?<P>Keep in mind that this may all just be for exercise cause Richard may not want in. I guess it's my belief that living as you two are now is not healthy for you, Richard, or the kids. <P>Now your going to uproot the kids from their "home" and all of you move to Texas. Richard staying in one place and you in a another. Think about this from their perspective. It's going to be pretty rough for them. After a while you two will either finally split or hopefully work it out. Any way you cut the mustard it is going to be hard on the kids.<P>So what's my point, I don't know I'm just typing as I think.

Bill,<P>I dont understand where you are coming from. He does not want "in." I have absoloutely no right to spell things out for him pertaining on what I need to reconcile.<P>Staying here at this moment just seems to be more of the same. He volunteered to not pursue a D for a time, maybe a long time. But that is just more of what our past was like. He stuck around for the kids, and was miserable. I dont want that for him. If he is miserable, then this will just happen again. I want to give him room to evaluate us, to decide if he wants to try. At this point he see's no hope.<P>Yeah, it will be hard on the kids, no doubt. But, OTOH, they will have a huge family they havent seen in a long time. That unconditional love from a grandma doesnt have a price. And his mom doesnt have alot of years left.<P>And the time apart would be us not living together in San Antonio. <p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited May 08, 2001).]

"I dont understand where you are coming from. He does not want "in." I have absoloutely no right to spell things out for him pertaining on what I need to reconcile."<P>Me neither. I guess the over point that I was trying to make is that Richard is obviously very confused. It obviously scared him to realize that you were serious about this splitting up. He has made some attempts to make the situation better without over committing to you.<P>Take care of yourself and your kids first. If he wants to join then you'll have to evaluate that later. I don't think your ready for that now.<P>Sorry for the confusion.<P>Bill<P>

Gotta go to work in a sec...JL, I,m hoping to hear from you on this one. I have been feeling so much better lately, the *funk* has lifted. Thanks for listening to all. OOPS! Maybe I should say YA'LL. hehe

Dara,<P>I just got done reading this thread. Let see if I understand this. Your H cannot get into the nursing program where he is now. Is that right?<P>Your H can get into a nursing program in SA. Is that right?<P>He cannot go back into the military without a funfilled tour in Korea, right?<P>He cannot afford the house you two now live in. And neither can you on your own.<P>Well, Dara I believe I once stated to you that I have found that all major decisions have not been decisions in my life. When it came down to it there was really only one sensible way to go.<P>It would seem that you are in that situation. It looks like a go to SA. I don't know what part of SA you are going to live in, but I do know that many of the schools in the suburbs there are very good. <P>Now I do have a few other concerns. One, is how your H is going to get back into the marriage. While your decision to move is now making more sense and probably even makes sense to your H, he is in a terrible crack.<P>How? Well, you say you don't want him living with you, he can live with is Mother. Sort of makes sense doesn't it, but then of course you and his Mother are running his life. How is going to get back together with you? He will have to come "begging" to get back home. But I suspect he feels he has done enough "begging" for a lifetime already.<P>I sense Dara, that your H doesn't see the win here for him. He only sees capitulation. He made is break for freedom, and he was captured, back into being second class within the marriage.<P>It would seem that returning to SA to finish school would be the most "sensible" thing for him. But he didn't accomplish what he wanted did he? He didn't get out of your control and he has no faith that you really have changed.<P>Now I am not trying to lay blame here. I am trying to set the stage for some planning on your part. If the scenario I have laid out is correct, then somehow you have to leave a door open for him, that gives him what he needs desperately. I suspect it is respect and love. <P>Does any of this make sense? I am guessing he is very confused because he does love you, certainly loves the kids, and realizes that SA is probably the right decision. However, all of the pain, the separation, the talk of divorce was real. There is something to this, it had a purpose. I suspect he feels that by doing what makes sense, he will be caving in and you will no longer respect him. You will control him again as you did before.<P>I am guessing that this is his quandary.<P>What do you think?<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Quick one here JL, gotta go to work.<P>It all makes sense doesnt it? He commented that he would be going to be near the children, that certainly I didnt believe that he was following me.<P>I replied that I know how much he loves his children, and I do know that him going is for them. No, JL, I wont have him "begging" to stay with me. How to express to him that I would love to live with him, but want not to coexist. To work on us. If he is willing. <P>All the talk of D, and seperation did come from somewhere. I am not denouncing that. I dont wan thim to feel llike a second class citizen for following us. We have discussed it purely for the benfit of the kids. <P>No, I wouldnt want him groveling, to re-engage me. I love him dearly. That would be the old me, manipulating. But, the healing he seeks wont come from me. I know he needs time to gather himself, most likely time alone.<P>If he chooses to stay here, for the pupose of enrolling in another nursing prog, I mentioned that in 2 years when he is done is there a reason to stay here? He loves it here, but I asked if he really wanted to be a dad for only 2 months a year? What is a stronger conviction for him? His disdain for SA, or being close to the kids? He said it was the kids.<P>I have not been strong arming him into this JL. Gotta go now, I'll check back around midnight. Thanks for responding.<P>Dara

Dara,<P>You have missed my point. I am not talking about what you have been doing. I am talking about how he works himself out of this crack. You see what you have to deal with here is his hang ups. Please reread my post.<P>What I am suggesting is a bit of thinking, so see if you can come up with a strategy that includes what seems to be the best thing to do, return to SA AND give him a way to come back to the family without feeling he has failed.<P>I sense that he would like to come back. He wants you and the children, but he doesn't want things to be the same. I sense that he feels if he just says alright, I will return to SA, work on the marrige, and get my degree, he feels he will have LOST.<P>A strategy needs to be made so that your changes, your love for him become apparent to him, in a way that when he does what both of you want, he won't feel like he LOST. There has to be a way.<P>You see that is what Plan A is about. It gives the BS something to work on while the affair fizzles, but by having the BS address "their role" in the marriage, it gives the WS a way back without complete loss of face. Yes, they are guilty, but there is a path, that says "I understand why you were unhappy, if you come back I will do my best to make you happy, part of what you felt was right."<P>We are looking for a path that allows him to move back, be with you and the kids, and while he will feel guilty for being with OW and wanting a divorce???, he will feel that his actions weren't completely ignored or wasted.<P>Does this make sense to you?<P>Dara, I suspect he is scared to death, that he will be back in the same marriage, living in fear that you will leave him again, and find someone else. He has eaten a lot of crow apparently, and he doesn't want to again.<P>How do we get him, to feel that going to SA won't be eating more crow? That is the issue, here. At least I think it is.<P>Perhaps the other posters, see things differently, or have an idea about this. Hope so.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: It sounds as if you have a beautiful home up there. I used to life on an AFB there in Tacoma, many years ago. It was a beautiful place.

Jl,<P>Thank you for responding. I am more of a 'fluid' type of person when it comes to stategizing how to find a way to have him come home w/o him feeling like he has lost. I think plan A should cover that. That ultimatly, hopefully there wouldnt be an issue of him 'saving face.'<P>But good point. I had not thought of that. Maybe this is why he has said that he wont change his mind (in the beginning) on the D. It would make him a fool he states.<P>I'm a bit tired right now, so I apolojize if I am not getting this all out. I sincerely hope that there would not be this issue you speak of if I cont to plan A.<P>He has asked me to stay here. And also said he would hold off on the D for a while, for the kids. I think he was appeasing me when I mentioned to him that I couldnt live with him and not want to be his wife and love him. So he IS making baby steps towards re-engaging. Maybe you are right, that he doesnt want to see the end of us, but ddoesnt know how to reconcile w/o viewing it as a loss. Alot of confusion he has. I'm sure, as time will tell, that he will realize how serious I am about wanting to love him. That I too want freedom from the past, for him and me.<P>That I am changing. And maturing.<P>I am still worried about him feeling that he is giving in to me by going with us, although we have both expressed it as a HUGE advantage for the kids and finances. This is another reason why I think he should stay with his mom. It gives him the space he needs. No, his mom is not 'controlling' him. She is a kind gentle woman of few words. She is highly dismayed at his choices, but has never critisized them Only encouraged him, and loved him. He is fully aware of her take on this. Not because she told him or I did, but because he knows it IS wrong from a spiritual standpoint, and she is a devout Christian. He even told me once that he thinks she loves me more than him!! Anyway, back to the point. It gives him room away from me, some sense of control over his life. And by staying with her, he has the option of loving me, not just it being a pre-cursor to keeping the peace for the kids.<P>I hope I making sense here. I think I'm going to bed. Will check back tomorrow. I highly esteem your opinion JL. And thank you again.<P>Dara

Dara, I don't understand why your husband would have to live with his mother. Isn't it possible that the other financial advantages inherent in the move would enable him to get his own apartment?<BR>

Hi Gnome,<P>Rich would probably need to stay with his mom although he recieves GI bill funding, renting and the associated costs would absorb most if not all of it. Which also leaves him w/o the ability to pay any of our bills (shared ones such as credit cards.)<P>Not to mention the fact that his mom is a post-amputee diabetic, and 75. She is quite active, but cannot drive. The help around the house and getting around would be very benficial to her.<P>I think it's just his pride at stake here. He realizes that moving would be the best option for him, but he will not be completely self-sufficient as he wanted. Thats the price we pay for getting ahead ie him going to school. By next year he will have his LPN license, and only one more year for his ADN (RN.)

Dara,<P>Just checking in.<P>Any new revelations, developments, or thoughts?<P>Talk at ya later.<P>Bill<P>