I'm in an incredibly sad situation. I'm getting divorced not because there was a loss of love or another woman, or because I myself was unfaithful, but because we reached a point where there was no compromise.<P>I want kids. He doesn't. He waited for 2 years into our marriage to tell me he couldn't see himself with children. That was about a year ago now.<P>So, he leaves this weekend. He's moving out of our apartment. It's amicable. <P>I'm partly angry and harbor some bitterness toward him for keeping his thoughts on children a secret. But, I still love him enough to try a friendship. We always were best friends.<P>Also, since the decision to separate and divorce, I've met someone who is also going through a separation. We keep each other comforted and love each other with a fondness and understanding I've never known before. We also find plenty of time to laugh about our hardship. Without that, I'm sure I'd be a heap.<P>I'm a realist though. Ultimately, I made the decision. It's time to move on.<P>I've read several posts here and feel a little alone because it seems my situation is unique. Or it feels that way.<P>But I do notice with many people here that there is an underlying sadness beneath it all. For what our love could have been. And what we have to let go of.<P>It's heartbreaking to have let go of that dream, isn't it?<P>Did I give up too soon? Could he ever change his mind? He would stay in this relationship if I "okay'd" it. I'd like your help. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by UnderTow (edited May 10, 2001).]

Dear Undertow,<P>This looks like your first post here. I would like to welcome you to Marriage Builders. There is a welcome post I would like to share with you. Many of us come from all walks of life, beliefs and situations. The primary goal is better ourselves, our families and work on recovering our marriages. Some are successful and some are not. Either way all have bettered themselves and met some valuable people here. <P>Please read the writeups referenced in this post. It will help have a view that you may not have considered. <P>Just click on this post to find out more about marraige builders. You may also want to move your posts to the general questions II section. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.

Thanks for your help and I've only started to read the articles.<P>A friend of mine recommended this site to me because the people here were understanding of all situations.<P>I don't want to be rude Orchid, but your post almost makes it sound like I don't have a place here. <P>No one in this relationship "cheated" so I'm not sure why I'd post in Infidelity under General Questions.<P>Am I missing something here? Should I be looking elsewhere?<P>It took me a while to get the courage to post anything and now I feel I shouldn't be here.

Dear UnderTow,<P>No my dear, I am not trying to discourage you. I want you to find the right place to get the best use out of this site. While you may not be dealing with the infidelity issues, you mentioned about the stressed feelings you and your H have due to difference of opinions. I myself have used the Just found out, General Questions II and this Divorcing/Divorce board as a place for my support. <P>I apologize for discouraging you in any way. Maybe you will find the support your need here. You will find it but I was also trying to direct you to another board which may offer more help. Maybe the Emotional Needs site might be more helpful. <P>I have been here since Jan of this year. I have learned so much but I am not an expert. Forgive me for making you feel bad. That is not my intention. There is a book called His needs/Her needs that is helpful for many. It might be worth looking into. <P>Your courage to post your story here is commendable. Please continue to post. Many of us post and read in multiple sites. Due to my circumstances, I read and post to this and the GQII sites. I also sometimes support the Pregnancy/Child site. <P>After you read the information, I am sure you will know better where to look. Please stay where you are the most comfortable. <P>I am sure others will stop by and give you support. In the meantime, you are welcome to stay here with us. <P>L.

Okay, let's go point by point here:<P>>>I'm in an incredibly sad situation. I'm getting divorced not because there was a loss of love or another woman, or because I myself was unfaithful, but because we reached a point where there was no compromise.<BR>I want kids. He doesn't. He waited for 2 years into our marriage to tell me he couldn't see himself with children. That was about a year ago now.<<<P>From this alone, I gather you still love him. Is the idea of children the ONLY issue? If so, then you are being too hasty. I was in your H's place just 7 years ago. Then I met my (then 6 year old) soon to be step-daughter. I had the unique experience of learning to love a child, and I'd never trade that for anything. I would say to your H "don't knock it until you've tried it." Fatherhood, that is...<P><BR>>>So, he leaves this weekend. He's moving out of our apartment. It's amicable. <P>I'm partly angry and harbor some bitterness toward him for keeping his thoughts on children a secret. But, I still love him enough to try a friendship. We always were best friends.<<<P>Is it really amicable? If you love him, and you're best friends, then perhaps you don't need to divorce. Maybe you just need to be patient. <P><BR>>>Also, since the decision to separate and divorce, I've met someone who is also going through a separation. We keep each other comforted and love each other with a fondness and understanding I've never known before. We also find plenty of time to laugh about our hardship. Without that, I'm sure I'd be a heap.<<<P>You're rebounding like Dennis Rodman! If you've spent some time reading the articles and posts on this site, you'll realize that your feelings for this OM (you're having an Emotional Affair, by the way) are not what you think they are: Your feelings with this man are situational. You've probably heard the advice "never get into a relationship when you're on the rebound..." Well you're not even on the rebound yet...you're still married! If you go ahead with your divorce, then you need to stay out of the relationship game until your wounds have healed, or you'll just wind up repeating the same mistakes.<P>>>I'm a realist though. Ultimately, I made the decision. It's time to move on.<P>I've read several posts here and feel a little alone because it seems my situation is unique. Or it feels that way.<<<P>They all feel unique. My XW insisted that she had NOTHING in common with the WS on this site, yet she followed the pattern to a "T."<P><BR>>>But I do notice with many people here that there is an underlying sadness beneath it all. For what our love could have been. And what we have to let go of.<<<P>Then why let go? You said there is no infidelity, no loss of love, just a dispute over childbearing. If this is the only issue, doesn't it seem like a waste to throw away your marriage? Or are you just excited at the prospect of exploring your relationship with this new guy? Be honest...is your marriage that bad? Is he beating you, cheating on you, lying to you, ignoring you, or is it just that someone else is doing a better job of meeting your emotional needs???<P>>>It's heartbreaking to have let go of that dream, isn't it?<<<P>Yes, especially when you don't have to.<P>>>Did I give up too soon? Could he ever change his mind? He would stay in this relationship if I "okay'd" it. I'd like your help.<<<P>If he would stay in the relationship if you "okay'd" it, then YOU are the one who is destroying the marriage. Have you considered that maybe he is frightened at the responsibilities involved in fatherhood? Have you considered that maybe he is not ready? Have you thought that maybe someday he will be a great dad, but you just need to give him time? <P>I say this because I thought I would never want kids. Now, six years later, I'm proud to count myself among those who are trying to be good dads, and I would never, ever give up a single moment with my daughter. She is the light and the love of my life. <P>Give him time. You've obviously given him an ultimatum of "make babies with me, or lose me forever." Take that back right now, leave this other person you are having an affair with, and try to restore your marriage. <P>If you want to save your marriage, this is the place to be. If you want honest advice (by "comforting and loving" this other person you are having an emotional affair...sorry!) and pointers from people who have "been there, done that," then you've come to the right place.<P>If you are looking for justification for your separation/divorce, then look elsewhere.<BR>

Hi UnderTow,<P>How are you doing?<P>L.<P>

Hi Orchid. Thanks for asking.<P>I'm doing...odd. I considered a lot of what cjack had written. Naturally, there's a lot of details missing from my life that I won't bore you all with.<P>My husband will never want kids. He married me out of love, but mostly under diress. It's a very long story. So, he never asked me to marry him. Still hasn't. Still have no engagement ring. The more I talk about my circumstances, the more sad and weird it sounds.<P>I've been forgiving and hopeful for so long and felt like a doormat. But yes, I do love him. And I have waited, for three years for...anything. Over a month ago he said, we are only together because we love each other. Practically, there is no reason. That's when I decided we should separate. He agreed.<P>There's so much you don't know. He wants me around but wants to live like a bachelor. <P>I just don't know how much leeway I should allow before I lose all self respect.<P>We plan to remain friends and he's hoping "something" will change and we'll find ourselves together again.<P>He's moving out this weekend. In fact, he moved his big items out today. I had my afternoon of sadness and then started redecorating (out of denial).<P>I know this site is for people who want to keep marriages together and it looks like, largely, most people here are BS's.<P>I guess I feel at some point I need to just accept the cold hard facts that "love is not enough." Or is it? <P>I really don't know anymore.<BR>

There is much you say you are not telling, OK, I guess you might want to consider going all the way here - there is much help here for you I am sure & the more those who can help know the more they will.<P>I to waited to have my son I am very sorry I did. I waited 8 years because I believed children should not have children & I felt very immature to ever consider having a child. Marriage is one thing for a man, children are a whole new set of commitments for some of us that are just "way scary". I don't know what my W could have said back then as I did not actually fully come around till my son showed his funky little head for the first time in the delivery room. He is now the one being who challenges me above all others to be the best man I can be. . . <P>He to (your H) may one day feel the same, are you so sure that you know him that well - as in how could you - you have nothing to compare him to when it comes to creation.<P><P>------------------<BR>StarCrossed

I know him fairly well. Yes.<P>I can see his discomfort and dislike of children. It's pretty blatant, even with his own nieces. He spent two years (without my knowledge) trying to convince himself he could see himself as a father.<P>All his actions point to him NOT being a good father. He really has no time for anyone but himself and that hasn't changed. He's in his 30s so he's not a kid. It's pretty solid, reliable behavior. He even told me that he would never want to have to get up early to take kids to school or be inconvenienced enough to have to pick them up.<P>Now, sure, he might have some issues with his own father, etc., but I'm not sure I want to be 40 or older and then wondering if it's too late to have kids. That's my selfish behavior.<P>He has kept his life completely separate from me. We've never shared a bank account and we've never invested money in any one thing together. No house. Etc.<P>Everyone suggests I wait. I've waited for three years for many things...even a marriage proposal. How long does one wait? For a lifetime? My problem is that I'm not sure I can do that, even though I do love him.<P>I'm not sure I want to commit him to a life of misery if he really does hate kids...as some people do. <P><BR>

I am sorry, Undertow, but I do not understand one thing. If you are married, then how is it you are waiting for a marriage proposal? If you are not married, then I am not saying it does not feel the same as a divorce, but I am saying that clears up some major commitment issues. Your feelings would be no different, but the legal issues, etc. would be easier to determine.<P>I too, would recommend that in any case you wait for new involvement. Easier said than done! I thought I had everything worked out to a T and now I am discovering the spots where I need some work before I am ready for a new commitment. I have been physically separated for one year from a 12 year marriage. You will probably need less time to refocus because your relationship was shorter.<P>Also, some things you should not compromise on -- and if kids are one for you, then you better find out right away about this new guy. That is if he wants kids or not. And maybe there are other issues, which you could discover about yourself, if you take the time to be alone .<P>My .02

Undertow,<BR>This is amazing, I've never read anything that so closely mirrors my own story.<P>I hate to go against MB but if your life is like mine and your husband is like mine, I would tell you to really look into your heart and mind and decide what is reality. I finally did after 10yrs of hoping that things would change. <BR>It's almost too late for me to have kids. I wish I had made a change sooner. Waiting and hoping, trying to make a life with someone who I cared for and who cared for me but giving so much up in the meantime. <P>My stbx and I are friends, really truly friends. We have been separated for 6 yrs. We tried to reconcile several times but it was obvious that he was happy with the relationship as two ppl married but living separate lives. I need a real loving close relationship. He doesn't understand what that means. So a year ago I filed for divorce, it should be final by the end of this month. <P>As you say there are many things behind this story, things that contribute to my certainty that my H will never want the things I want and need out of a marriage (not just children). <P>I hate to say this, I feel I'm being so disloyal to MB, but please don't wait until it's too late for you too. I wish that I had been stronger sooner and that I had seen that he would not change his attitude regarding children or sharing or love and honesty. If you don't read this and see yourself than please do not act on my suggestion of not waiting to find out if he'll change. I am scared to give this if your H is not what mine was. But don't waste your life if he is. <P>I'm stronger in my convictions and my understanding of what is the truth, I hope to impart some of my history so that another will not follow the same path.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you.<BR>

NoraP -- We are married...but we got married in a bit of a hurry and he was basically forced into it by me...though we had planned to get married eventually anyway. As a result, he never actually proposed to me. Odd situation.<P>AStrongerMe -- Thanks for posting. At least I know I'm not crazy. That is my biggest fear is that I will wait and wait and it will be too late for me. I think that would add an unbearable weight to my life and moutains of regret. So thank you. I have been hoping for almost 4 years and frankly, that well is nearly tapped dry. I keep hoping he'll just say, "I don't know what I was thinking, how could I not want kids?" But...to no avail.<P>And...like you...there is more to it that kids. <P>Thanks to all of you. I have a lot to think about.