Hey Guys! It's been awhile since I have started a topic of any significance, but I have something on my mind and could use some advice. I’ll try to be brief (of course those of you who know me will understand how difficult that is for me sometimes), but here it goes…..<P>My divorce has been final now for almost 6 months and although I think I am moving forward with my life, I am constantly bothered by this little voice in the back of my head asking, “what if?” All through the separation and the divorce, my ex and I have remained friendly, occasionally even getting together from time to time to “catch up” with one another. Even though she has never expressed any indecision or given me any signals that she wants to return to my life, I keep wondering if that day will ever come. I also honestly question myself as to how I would respond if that day did come. In my head I know that a reconciliation would be conditional on many factors, and I really don’t see her making the concessions necessary for a second chance to even be possible. Yet, I still wonder.<P>I’ve been working so hard to not hate her throughout all of this, but to hate what she has done. A part of me will always love her and I’d like for her to remain a part of my life, but at what point does this continued friendship hamper my ability to truly let go? When we see each other, it’s almost as if we were never apart. Aside from our customary hug, there hasn’t been anything physical between us since she moved out last July, but everything else seems natural. It’s almost enough for me to question why all of this ever fell apart in the first place?<P>I have been operating under the idea that if I excluded her from my life altogether, then I wouldn’t really get over her and I would just bury those feelings instead. I have been told that the healthiest way to get over her is by keeping her in my life, but now I’m wondering if this continued friendship and contact with her is making it worse in reality? We don’t have any children, so any contact up to this point has been purely voluntary, but almost all of it has been initiated by me.<P>To throw a new twist into the pondering, I have a wonderful new person in my life whom I care for very much. I have been very open with her and we have even discussed this very topic, probably analyzing it to death. The more I ponder and the more I rationalize, I’m starting to believe that moving on with my life needs to happen w/o my ex being a part of it. Maintaining that bond not only helps to fuel that “what if” question, it’s also not fair to myself, to my friend and to the future of our relationship. I can still remain friendly toward my ex and can be there in an emergency situation, but being her friend may not have an advisable purpose.<P>I guess my biggest question is this: by keeping my ex as a part of my life, am I really preventing myself from letting go and moving forward? <BR>

Shawn,<P>Since I'm still working at recovery and not in your position, I'm probably not the best person to answer your question. But if you really want to move on and close the door it seems to me that the dynamics would be similar to someone recovering from an affair. Any contact with your ex will be a setback to a new relationship.<P>Sounds bad to equate a marriage to an affair, but I'm just thinking in terms of how the emotional attachment works. Sounds like any time you get together she's making deposits in your emotional bank account, making it harder to let go.<P>BTW, I'm guessing that if there is any chance of turning your ex around then letting her know you're going to a permanent no-contact mode will make her think about it. If she doesn't contact you within a couple of months of going to no contact in order to talk about your relationship then there really is no chance.<P>In other words, I think you've answered your own question. Just my thoughts, I'm by no means certain that I have the right advice for you.<P>Best wishes,<P>Steve<P>

Well said StillHers.<P>

Shawn, I am so happy that you are trying to move on. I know this whole thing has been very hard on you. <P>Personally, my experience is that it was easier to just let him go. I never told him I was going into a 'no contact' mode. However, I was dealing with a man who could rough me up with just his word and attitude. <P>I think that, at some point, you will need to loosen her grip on your friendship with your x. You can be there in an emergency but that might be all.

shawn,<P>Let me first ask you a question: Are you afraid of not loving your wife anymore? What a crazy question, right? Well believe it or not, I had that fear for quite a long time. How crazy is it that I was afraid of losing the feelings I had for a woman who tore my heart to shreds and broke her vow to me? I thought about it long and hard. What I came up with was that I was still "holding on" to the "chance" we might still be able to fix things. I feared that if I stopped loving her, then it would be my fault we never got back together (the mind is a sometimes strange bird). So I believed I had to "work" to keep my love alive...<P>I eventually decided that I could not "hold on" or "work" anymore and just see what happens with my love. Well it has been a few months since I did that and I don't know if it is fortunate or unfortunate, but I still love her. I love the memories we made together. But I have peace. I know it was a mistake, but it can't be one that halts my life - I have kept going.<P>Again it came back to my faith that if God really wants us to be together and that is His plan, then if she does "come around", as long as I am still close to Him, He will reopen my heart to her, and her's to mine. <P>I think this happens much more often to divorced couples than most would think. BUT when the second chance does come, someone's fear and pride usually gets in the way and blocks any chances the two people may have. Both fear and pride are things God does not want for us. So back to my point, if my xwife came around and made an effort at reconciliation (or the desire to try), by remaining close to God I would then be able to pray for His help and love to open up my heart.<P>If that never happens, then so be it. His will be done.<P>So I think the feeling of "what if" is only your heart's way of keeping a chance alive. And there is nothing wrong with that - you still love her. I know your faith is growing from your past posts here - my thinking is that maybe this is your next step on that road - to totally trust that God will point you in the right direction as long as you have faith...<P>A business aquaintance of mine is going through similar trials, including a divorce. Both of our troubles began around the same time. He claims he has a strong faith, but he can't understand why I seem to be doing so much better off than him (emotionally). His problem I feel is that he talks the talk, but does not walk the walk. He quotes scripture and talks about God, but he holds so much anger and bitterness in his heart that none of the "good" can penetrate his soul. You are different - You chose a better route. You chose not to hate and you have come a long, long way since we first started posting. And by the way, I think so has your faith.<P>Believe in a higher power and stop working to keep your love, I promise you that it will remain even after you stop working to hold on to it. If she comes back around in a serious manner, trust then that it was meant to be....<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Jay,<P>I'm not able to read all the replies before me so if I repeat something someone else might have said, I appologize.<P>I think we always have that nagging "what if" in the back of our minds. I notice, I get it when I'm emotionally down or sad. NOT on my good days.<P>I think I can answer this honestly for you since I am in the situation only in reverse. I dated a person who kept up the "friends" thing. This is extremely difficult for the new person in your life, (as it was for me) because it just keeps the "what if" a little closer in your head. I also think that its not fair to the new person.<P>In my case, by keeping that door open, eventually, he betrayed me. I always knew it was a possibility but chose to take a chance. <P>I think its only fair to the new person, not to get involved with her until you are really as sure as you can be that there will be no turning to the ex because to be on the other side, that is devestating.<P>Your ex may come around when she sees you have someone new. Mine did, my bf's did. Its almost common I think. But how fair is that to you. To have her take notice, AFTER you moved on so to speak. Or they come around when their affair ends. Again, how fair to be second choice? And when you go back to them, you will always have that "what if". What if they didn't lose their affair, would they have really come back? <P>My thinking isn't where it shouldn't be right now, you know that from my recent dilemma, but I have to say that being on the other end, you can see how crushed I am for being that "new person" where the "what if" was never dismissed.<P>Now the "what if" is dismissed and I have to decide what I am capable of dealing with. Its all issues we could have avoided.<P>Pay attention to when you feel the "what if's". I do it when I'm lonely, sad, hurt, betrayed or confused. I then think its only natural to miss that sense of security we once had at those times. When I'm happy, confident and secure, either in a new relationship or single, I don't have those thoughts hardly at all (except holidays).<P>Did I make any sense? I hope you understand my reply comes from being in the worst nightmare that could come out of the "what if" that came true.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Steve,<P>I think you make some valid points, and yes, I think I already have decided what I need to do. However, I don’t want to come across like my decision to move into the “no-contact” mode is in any way a ploy to get her to rethink her decision. The “no-contact” mode would be for me to put the past behind me and really has no bearing on her.<P>The times where we have been in contact with one another probably has helped to add those deposits into my love bank, but we never have discussed anything regarding the relationship. She wasn’t very willing to discuss many details about the marriage while we were separated and in the process of divorce. I can’t imagine that she would be more willing to discuss matters now that we are divorced. <P>Mike,<P>I understand your question, but I’m not afraid of not loving my ex anymore. A part of me is always going to love her and feel compassion for her. She was a part of my life for many years and those feelings are going to be slow in fading away. If I didn’t feel this way, then I would have to think that maybe being married really was a mistake from the beginning. <P>Like you, I was blindsided by my ex’s unhappiness and desire for divorce. I was very much in love with this woman and wanted her to be by my side for the rest of our lives. I think it’s much harder for us to let go since we were not the ones wanting out of the marriage. <P>Moving into what Dana said, where the fear comes into play for me is the actual process of moving into a new relationship and then having the “what if” scenario becoming a reality. I don’t plan on living my life alone as I want to remarry and I want to start a family of my own. However, being honest with my feelings and being open about these thoughts really makes it a bad risk for someone to become involved with me, and with reason. I honestly do not know what I would do if my ex wanted to return to my life in more of a “relationship” type of role. As long as I am keeping that as a possibility in my head, am I worth someone else taking a chance on me?<P>I know that my faith has become stronger and I do believe that God will bring us back together if that is his will, but then doesn’t that sound like any relationships from this point forward would be conditional on my ex and her choices? I also have a tendency to think way too much which can be crippling at times. I think it’s good to be prepared for all scenarios, but you really don’t know sometimes until that decision is staring you in the face.<P>Dana,<P>Your insight here has also been very helpful, especially since you have recently become the one putting yourself at risk in a new relationship. You brought up a very good point when you asked as to “when” I am feeling the “what if’s?” I have already noticed that they are mainly prevalent after I have been in contact with the ex, when I am lonely (especially after cooking meals for myself in the same house we once shared) and when I am confused. I’m really torn because more than anything, I don’t want to risk hurting this new person in my life, AND at the same time, I don’t want to scare her off either. I get the feeling that I’m $@%#!&* either way. <P>I know that being honest from the start is the best way to go, no matter what the outcome. The two of us are also of the same opinion that God puts people in our lives for a reason so maybe we shouldn’t question everything so much? One advantage here is that she is in a similar situation to mine, although I think she has a bit more closure on her divorce than I do on mine. Still, I am still putting myself at risk that her relationship could rekindle sometime as well.<P>Wouldn’t it be nice if we truly could have “selective” memory where we were able to delete those thoughts and feelings from our pasts which may come back and haunt us in the future? <P>Another reason to go, hmmmm…….<P>Thanks for your responses <BR>

I am not divorced, but my husband has moved to another state with the slug for school and has indicated to others that he has no plans to ever come back here. I am in a different kind of limbo, but it is limbo, nonetheless, when you are not moving on because of your spouse and your feelings for him/her. I love my husband, and would take him back in a heartbeat if he would agree to some conditions (none actually involving a chastity belt - LOL!). And, until I am certain that there is no chance of reconciliation, I feel it would be massively unfair of me to date. Even were I to be divorced ... feeling as I do right now, I cannot give what is needed to a new relationship, and therefore, I feel that it would be very selfish of me to involve myself with anyone.<P>Some will say that is slowing my "recovery" ... I say it is what I need to do for me and that potential other person. I did become involved briefly with another person last year. And it was a big mistake. Mostly because I was so hurt by the other person ... and even if he hadn't been a jerk, I am not certain that I was able to give what was needed to a relationship.<P>Anyhow ... that's my take on it. I'm sure it has made the solution to YOUR situation perfectly crystal clear, right? <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

jayhawk,<P>You and mike have somewhat of an advantage over some of us<BR>here..in the fact that you don't have children that keep that connection there..<P>I don't know how long you were married..or how long you dated her..but if you didn't date her since h/s and weren't<BR>h/s sweet hearts..I'd say think back to other relationships..how did they end? did they just die..and you never seen them again..not necessarily a no contact rule <BR>was made..you just moved on..and didn't call the girl anymore or go out on dates and such right? well..maybe as you start doing things with other people making new friends who don't know her..you won't think about her as much..and just live your life..then when you do see her it won't hurt so bad..it will just be an old memory of what used to be..sure you'll be able to smile at the happy times..but the hurt won't hurt so much..

After reading your post, and all the responses, I felt a number of things. But I will be as objective as possible and try to address each point made by people. I have been pondering the same questions for a while, and I know where you are. One early point that was made was that repeated contact with your ex results in more deposits being made in your love bank, particularly because the relationship is still amicable. I realize that repeated contact with my ex (since he is being so agreeable, kind, remorseful, and loving) has made tender feelings re-emerge. I feel that in many ways, it has hurt me in my recovery—or maybe it has helped me be realistic and honest with myself about where I am and question what I want for my life. You never know how you will feel sometimes until you are standing right there. I also do not think that you would use the no-contact game to get her back for I do not believe you are that manipulative. It is impossible to predict what her reaction might be because there are so many factors involved. I think the love bank point is one of the strongest points made so far. You also <P>I have also come to the conclusion that unless you are holding out for hope, then cutting ties might be healthier IF THAT IS TRULY WHAT YOU WANT. I think it was you who once told me that (about penny??). One thing though: if you do go into “no contact mode” then it probably would be best not to announce it. It would make her feel as though it was manipulative or calculated. It is best just to let it fade on its own. Actually, your contact with her is limited as it is; you do not even have her home phone, correct?<P>That said, the true question you must ask yourself is whether or not you are truly ready to give up hope on her altogether. Do you WANT to let her go? Are you scared of what that would represent in your life: the failure, the finality of it, the real mourning that would begin? (Maybe your anger will finally set in too.) Do you want to let her go? Or are you still wanting her back in your life? The actual letting go is a process. First you must decide to start, a daunting task within itself. That means actively taking part in the complete loss of your marriage. Not being passive but making an active choice regarding your future with this woman. Once you start it, you can’t (or shouldn’t) turn back on. If you cut ties (for many more reasons than just your new relationship, I know), then make sure you stick to your guns. I have said that I didn’t want contact with my ex, and I am being pulled back into the quagmire. Don’t start this process until you are ready to really go all the way. Also, if you are don’t truly want to let go or are not ready to start the process, the first step in which is to cut ties, then do not get involved with someone. Because if you are not willing to actively let go of her and to make those first small steps, you are indeed creating conditions for that new relationship. <P>Mike asked if you were afraid to stop loving your wife. But are you afraid of feeling no hope? <P>I am choosing to take control of my life; but also not take it out of God’s hands. But just because my ex might come back to me does not mean that it is God’s will that we be together. <P>I hope you understand the spirit in which I am saying this. I care about you and do not want to see you (or your new friend) get hurt in the process. But your honesty is a good start, and she is a big girl and can decide if the risk is worth it. Knowing you, I suspect it is worth it. <P>Cheryl<BR>