I'm addicted to these boards. I hardly ever post but I read all the time, I never miss a day. So what if the OW won? Yes I know we are supposed to feel that it will catch up and what goes around comes around and all that, but it sure doesn't seem like its happening! OW and XW are the happy couple. OW had told many people that she will not marry until she has raised her children (six years) but that they are engaged and she has a big ring. I haven't seen it but others have told me about it. OW is 21 years younger then me. I read on another board that I have never posted on about what does the OW look like. Well, most said the OW was ugly and whatever and far below them in looks. Not me! The OW is young and fit and beautiful. Also she seems to be very likable. She got an award from our city for being a fitness ambassador or something like that. It was in the paper along with saying that my XH, only since December, was her fiance. And they seem to be a regular couple now with all his functions. So I guess that's the way it goes. Yes I am moving on with my life. I am financially secure and I am grateful for that. I am taking some classes and trying hard to stay busy. But it just eats at me. The OW won! How can I let go of this? Any help would be appreciated.

NO....she didn't!!! No body won. <P>However, YOU've kept your dignity together. YOU fought for and believed in your marriage. YOU helped make your H the person he is today. YOU will survive this and go on to live a life of integrity, knowing YOU did the right thing. YOU didn't cheat, lie and steal another person's spouse. YOU didn't set into motion events that would tear another's heart out. YOU didn't cheat on your husband. YOU didn't discard your mate for another. <P>YOU have every reason in the world to hold you head high. No, you probably weren't perfect thru it all...who is when a thing like this hits you? But you survived...you ARE surviving....you gave it your best shot....you hoped. And you will keep on hoping. You will eventually thrive.<P>Just be clear about one thing....SHE DID NOT WIN. PERIOD.<P>Happiness and true beauty is not found in "being the embassador" of anything...it's not found in flounting your immorality...it's not found in being physically attractive. It's found in doing the right thing. <P>"Blessed/happy are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they will be filled." And that is not just referring to the afterlife......you will be filled now. Keep your focus on God, who wants to give you an abundant life, in spite of the OW or you H or anything. He loves you so.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

My OW won too. No matter how you look at it, whatever lessons you are supposed to learn, the OW still won. She has my husband and I have lost my family, my boys have lost their father.... Just so damn sad.

I sometimes feel that my Ex's OW won. She has my H, my house<BR>drives my truck ect. They were married one month after we were divorced, so yes, I feel she won but won what? She won my cheating very hard to live with lying ex-husband. She won all of his debt and a house that he owed more than it was worth. She won a lifetime of feeling like **** because she hurt so many people. The whole town thinks she is a skank for what they did to me and the kids. I live in a very small close knit community. <P>What did I the second place loser win? I won my independance. It was a unexpected gift from all of the hell I was put through. I won alot of self respect and respect from others for the way I handeled everything. I feel I handeled everything with dignity and respect. <P>So NO I don't think that the OW ever wins nor does the WS. They will forever be haunted by what they did to others who were innocent. <P>Jill

Won what?!?!?! Your dignity, your self respect, your admiration, your supporters? No what she has she stole. Not won. If she did win it would have been a game. This is not game. There are not winners when a marriage is broken up due to infidelity. <P>They might strut around like they won but let time catch up to them, can't keep up that appearance forever. Where are those statistics about how long those type of marriages last? They had to get married quick because they were probably too scared it might evaporate into thin air. Well it probably will and you will still be the one standing tall with nothing to be ashamed of. <P>Remember he who laughs last, laughs best.....<P>L.

Very well said Mrs. O and Orchid!!!!!<BR>Thank you,<BR>Petrie

Distressed,<P>I agree. Absolutely the OW won. She took away my H, my kids lost their father. A man who once said that spending time with his family was more important than anything else, now has says that the most important thing to him is making sure the OW is not disturbed. The children get to see their father for 12 hours a month. <P>We are left in poverty. I can't find a place to live, even though I have a professional job and excellent credit, because I have too much debt and four children at home - many landlords turn me down as soon as they hear how many children I have. My H has been unemployed for over a year, but he is living a comfortable lifestyle. He gets to share expenses/have the OW support him - I get to try to find a place to live when the average rent is about 75% of my income including the minimal child support that he has to pay. Financially speaking, leaving your family absolves you of most responsibility - if your income goes down, you don't have to pay as much, if your kids need new shoes or go through a growth spurt and eat everything in sight, hey, it's not your problem. <P>My 8 year old was given an assignment from school to write about what she would wish for if she could wish upon a star. She burst into tears and said she didn't want to write it, because she would wish that Daddy would come home...<P><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited May 11, 2001).]

Dear,<BR>I absolutely agree with you. In fact I became sure, reading a lot of threads here, that OW/OM alwas win.<BR>In my case OW has got my H (19+3yr) the best husband and father in the world, my OD (19) the best and loveliest girl in the world, my house of three floors which my H and me built "from nothing" 10 yr ago, she took a father from my YD (11) and made her life miserable, she sleeps in my wedding bed... She now has everything what I lived for, she lives wonderful life ful of love, happiness, joy, money, no obligations and to my YD and me only emptyness, misery and sorrow left. And nobody of them is worried.<BR>Only questions WHY? WHY? left. What have us two did so wrong that we couldn't correct together with our daddy and sister? Why did we deserve that?<BR>I truly believed that a fog has to lift if I leave them in peace, but now, after a year of separation and 7 months them living together he told me he'd finally fil for divorce this week. I'd know for sure if he did that next week. But in spite of the summer temperatures here the fog seems to be stabile - only maybe it's not the fog it's love.<BR>Deeply understand you. Big hug.

My XH is a really good man. Everyone says so. He'll do anything to help anyone out. He is very successful but also very generous. I really did lose a wonderful man. I know now that I never showed him that I appreciated him and admired him and that I should have told him. Once I realized these things I tried to change but he wouldn't give us a chance. After 31 years of marriage, I feel our marriage deserved a chance but OW would just not let go, she is like a leech. By the time I found out about the A, my H had been seeing OW for six years! He was already spending time with her kids and had watched them growing up. It was like he had already remarried before he ever even left! Nellie I am so sorry that you have such financial troubles. At least I don't have that to worry about and I am grateful but also I believe that I earned and deserve every cent I get. OW is beautiful, very beautiful, the kind that people notice and stands out. She has a great career and kids that are athletic stars. Why did she have to take my husband too? So I do feel she won in some ways. She has my husband and I lost him. I would do anything to have him back. Most of the time I do better. I think it is Mothers Day coming up that has me so depressed. My H always made a big deal of it for me and the kids even when they were grown, taking us out to brunch and buying me flowers. Of course for six years the OW was with him but I didn't know. But I always looked forward to it. Last year he was already moved out and not a word. I guess this year will be the same. Of course my children took me out but there were only three of us and there should have been four! He was away with OW and her kids on Easter. These days are so full of memories for me and very hard.

Okay ladies....let's get one thing straight.....the OW DID NOT WIN!<P>I may FEEL like that, it may LOOK like that, and yes, I too was convinced at few months ago that she won. That I lost...everything. It didn't take much convincing, since I actually HAD lost everything.<P>People used to tell me, in those early months, that I was strong, and I would survive this, etc.....basically all the stuff I said before. I didn't believe them, number one, and number two, I certainly didn't want to hear that. I didn't want to be STRONG....I wanted my H back!! It irritated me when they said that.<P>But I made a decision, eventually, that I wasn't going to loose ME....my dignity, my individuality, my self-esteem, my integrity. All those things took a terrible blow when my H and the OW started and still continue their A. My life was blown apart and I felt like the biggest looser in the world....in the universe. And I was. It's been a year and a half and I can just now begin to look at myself in the mirror without thinking I look old, used-up, wrinkled, angry, etc. I'm starting to see my "old" self now...the one with beauty, hope and a sparkle in my eyes.<P>But somewhere I came to the understanding of the truth. And that truth is.....no one won. It wasn't a game. The OW didn't follow the "rules" we all as a society....sh*t, we all as the world....have set up. There isn't any culture or country in the world who thinks it's "OK" to steal another person's spouse or to cheat on your own spouse! It's not the way we were created to act, but some people are so morally corrupt, they don't have much of a conscience any more (and that, ladies, might include your H, sorry to say).<P>So as time has gone one, I still realized that I "lost" alot of what my life was all about....my H, my future, my hopes, my plans, my financial support, etc. But just because I may have lost, doesn't mean she won. No, she didn't.<P>Please don't let yourselves believe that, because it's just not true. Yes, we lost alot.....more than we can take at times. But no one won.<P>I pray that you will see this someday and soon. It changes you from being a victim (which we all truly were) into victor....not over "them," but in life! <P>I too hade a marvelous H and I too didn't show him enought how much I loved him. But don't forget...this terrible thing that has happened to you, was DONE BY HIM!!! Whatever else fantastic qualities my H has, HE DID THIS TO ME. You've got to remember that. It wasn't just the OW's fault. Are you guys forgetting that? <P>In my book, my H and the OW deserve each other. People who believe that type of behaviour is okay deserve each other.<P>Just my .02 cents worth....again. What you see and what you are feeling are not necessarily reality. Try to seek the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It's hard...cause I didn't want to believe that about my H. I didn't want to admit that he could have done such a horrible thing. It really hurt and still does sometimes. But he did.<P>Okay...that's enuf of a lecture...<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited May 11, 2001).]

Mrs. O,<P>I disagree. It is a game to the OWs. Of course they don't play by the rules, but they certainly can win. <P>In my case, the OW bought the "contest," but it worked. She has my H, she has companionship, love, sex, a substitute father for her kids. My H also won, because he never has to work again if he doesn't want to, he doesn't have to provide more than minimal support for his kids, he doesn't have any responsibility for them, yet he can see them when he wishes. That is what this is all about for a lot of people - they get tired of the responsibility of being a parent, and they find a way to never have to worry about it again. <P>Telling people not to be victims is just more "blame the victim" psychobabble. None of the definitions of "victim" in Merriam-Webster imply that being a victim is anything to be ashamed of. The BS's and the children ARE victims, and the WS's and OP's are perpetrators. <BR>

Interesting thread.<P>The real losers are the children and I don't think there are any winners. I do believe that what comes around goes around in life, and those that do these horrible things to their families, one day will suffer. I don't know how they will suffer, but certainly I've seen it a few times already with personal friends that have gone before me in this mess.<BR>I try to be a good person and try not to get hung up on these feelings because I will feel like a loser too.<P>The OW is engaged to my H now. She has a big beautiful ring, my kids adore her, because I was the bigger person and didn't poison them, and her life seems to be just so wonderful right now. OH ya, she drives my car too. I just signed it over to them recently. <P>BUT, what's to say she won't cheat on him like she did on her last boyfriend to be with my H? What's to say my exH won't cheat on her. He would cheat on her NOW with me if I let him, but I'm not into that, so I guess I could assume he'll cheat with others.<P>I try to look at it, that everything happens for a reason and there is something better for us out there. Maybe its not true in all the cases, I don't like a father who leaves 4 kids behind in devestation, but I have 3 kids and was in the same predicament for a while.<P>I just hang onto this. If I worry about them, I get dragged down. If I concentrate on myself and being a good person and a trustworthy, honest , faithful person to everyone around me, then I know I have done my best. Someday when I do get something good to finally come back to me, I'll know I got it the honest way and I'll not take it for granted after all this pain and suffering.<P>

I am going to jump in here, and ask the same question that has already been asked: <I>What Have They Won???</I><P>So they get our Ex's. They get to help raise our kids. They get to look forward to the dreams that we had together. But if we stop and look within ourselves, we see that the only way for someone else to win, is if they break our spirits. Try to make us degrade ourselves, and blame ourselves for the wrongs that were done to <I><B>US.</B></I> No one on this board asked our spouses to go have an affair on us. And just about everyone fought long and hard to try and resolve our own marital problems. In the end, the ones that play by the rules and don't cheat, will end up the winners. Sometimes this takes a while. Cheaters and liars never win<P>I look back at what I lost. There are times that I am deeply saddened by what I will no longer have. But on the same token, I look at what I am gaining. I now have a chance to rebuild my life the way that I want. I get to do the things for myself and for my kids that will make me happy. I get to go on with my dreams and plans. I have gained a new respect for life, and have learned more about myself then I ever knew. I get to plan my activities around me. I get to get up in the morning, look in the mirror, and know, really know, that I did what I could. I fought hard for my marriage. I can respect myself. I have no guilt or remorse. And no matter what happens, my STBX and the OM can not take that from me. And as for the kids, no matter how great a person the OP is, they can never, ever replace mom or dad.<P>In my case, the OM is a spineless fool who does not have the balls to face me or look me in the eyes when ever I see him. He would rather slink away and hide, then be a real man. This is not a winner in my book.<P>So, do the OM/OW win? No, because they have thrown away more, and will lose more in the end, then they could ever take from us! And no one that lost a spouse because of betrayal really lost, the WS threw away everything.<P>We are all winners here. Keep your heads up. Thay can not take away your pride or dignity.<P>Griz

I really don't believe they win either. <P>It may take a very long time for them (ex's) to realize what they did but it will catch up to them. Several of my friends have come from divorced families. ALL of the father left wives with small children and all have remarried several times. My Aunt's exs cries all the time and after 4 years still can't marry his OW and a friend of my H has backed out on his 2nd marriage 3 times. Last time was only days prior to marriage. My STBX's friend who is divorced spent last christmas day crying. He was not a happy man. He left a wife and baby.<P>So if we are defining winning as achieving that state of happiness they lacked with us, re above paragraph. If we define winning as them dumping us and getting OP then yes but it is a shallow victory indeed, and only achieved by cheating, literally!! <P>Winners never cheat and cheaters never win, isn't that what we are taught as kids?

Yes, that is what we were taught as kids - but unfortunately that does not make it true. Liars and cheaters do win, all too often.<P>It is impossible for me to be philosophical about this when I apply for several rentals every week, and am constantly turned down because rentals are in such great demand, when I can't afford a small three bedroom ranch even though I have a master's degree and over twenty years experience, when I can't even afford to buy new shoes for my kids, when people are constantly asking me why my H hasn't been able to find a job after over a year. Yes, he did win. He has a roof over his head, and is in no danger of going hungry. Philosopical discusssions feel a bit irrelevant when I don't know how much longer I can be sure I can give my kids sufficient food and shelter.

I get the feeling that OW won with me too.<P>YES, she got a man who betrayed his wife. <BR>But she also got a caring, loving, warm guy, who knows how to take care of a woman, who always takes care of his home.<P>She got a guy whom I love deeply and I just realized that I probably will never get him back.<P>God, this is so saddening.

No my dear, I won. I won freedom from a man who by his actions showed very little love or respect for me.<P>Yes, I may struggle financially. Yes, he's going to go on and live the high life while I struggle to raise my children.<P>Would I trade my kids for his money? No way. <P>HE LOST. He lost the children, and he lost ME. One day, I'll be the wife to a good man that deserves my love.<P>My revenge, my prize, in all of this, is that the OW gets him!!! One day, when she's firmly got her claws into him, married him or whatever, she'll realize what a fool she was.<P><p>[This message has been edited by BrambleRose (edited May 13, 2001).]

My H for all his marriage always was focused on making me happy. When he asked me to sacrifices at the beginning of our marriage he promised that he would make good and he did. We had and I guess I still have a wonderful lifestyle financially. He knew I came from a lifestyle that was different than what I would have with him when we married. My parents were happy with the marriage because I was 30 and I guess they thought I would never marry but he was not as well off as we were or my sisters husbands were. But now I have a wonderful financial lifestyle which is even better then my sisters but not my husband, they have their husbands. And I have to say that no matter how much I read, I just can't think of my H as an evil person or even a really immoral person. He had never been a cheater. What went so terribly wrong in our marriage I only partially understand. But I do know that I still love him and that the OW has him. To me that means she won him. And even my own children have told me that they don't want to be in the middle and have accepted OW. Reading these responses has given me somethings to be grateful for. The OW will never have a hand in raising my children, they are already raised and she will never know them as children. I am financially secure unlike Nellie who I feel so bad for. But no one can convince me that the OW didn't win. All I read is trying to convince me that my husband isn't worth having and I don't believe that.

discarded,<P>Thank you for your concern. <P>I agree that people tend to try to convince you that the WS isn't worth having, and that is often not the case. In my case, it is not so much that the OW has a good man who used to be my H, as that she killed the good man that used to be my H.

<P>I also can't agree that OW didn't win. She won, she won everything: a man who is so full of love for her (like he was 20+ years for me), who enjoys life with her (like he couldn't with me because we were both hardly working to earn the money he now spends), she got a gorgous man, living only to make her happy. Our OD accepted her what can mean only she is worth of that. It is hard to accept but I have to admitt I was not a good wife, I didn't show him the whole time how I love him, I was too occupied with kids and partly with accademic career, he was occupied with building a company, we spent too less time together. Now he can relax a bit and she is younger, prettier, more funny, without obligations and of corse less tired than me, who waited for these days and was sure we should spend and enjoy them together. <BR>Now I am left with YD, on my own little salary, in a little appartment, to manage life how I can, after 22 years he cared for me unselfishly. Again OW WON, how can you girls say she didn't win - it's so obvious OW got everything what belong to us, our Hs who commited to us, our homes, in some cases our kids, our life styles, our money our way of life, and we are to learn how to live in completely new way, what I can't accept like some of us can. I can't accept that's positive, we have now enough time for ourselves. I miss my H. I miss his shirts to iron, I miss cleaning our house (where OW lives now) I miss my OD who likes this OW, I miss my old way of living.<BR>Maybe I lived in dreams but I want this dreams back. I am ready to forgive and forget but it seems I will not have any opportunity for that if he filed last week like he said.<BR>I don't need him like "a friend" what he offered me last week , I want him and only him like H and father of our daughters. I live without him more than a year but I have still hope he'll get out of the fog some day and he'll find me just the same like he left me.<BR>I am maybe too conservative but I think I can fall in love only once in my life. I am sure my H is worth of every attempt to make him see me like a woman who he lived happily for at least 20 years and of course to see that his YD is suffering deeply and that we can build a new better marriage if he gives us a chance.<P>