My divorce was just finalized on 4/30/01. In as much as it was totally initiated by XH, reality has hit him pretty hard. I have posting in regard to my attitude toward him throughout this-my heart goes out to him. Basically I kept the door open (the door to my heart), because I saw a man being so deceived and I really think that the devil had a hold on him-I hoped and prayed that he'd "wake up".<P>It absolutely killed me to see him show no emotion, like the past 13yrs. meant nothing. I just had to deal with this and continue to pray for him. I had to let him go and leave it in God's hands.<P>He has been calling me lately. Wanting to know if I am okay, asking about my family, etc. He called me on the finalization day, and I really felt that he was repentant. He has been really reflecting on the choices he has made and how utterly wrong these choices were.<P>Okay, here is the kicker. Now I am putting this out here and it real personal, but in the same token I need advise, even if it means someone telling me I am a complete fool. It is hard for me to even tell my sisters, I already know what their response would be anyway. <P>Last night XH called. It was pretty late (he knows I am an insomniac) It kind of caught me of guard, but I have to admit it was nice to hear from him and kind of weird that we'd be on the same wave length. We were catching up and sharing and I said why don't you come over. He jumped on it (no pun intended), and next thing I know he was at my door. I won't get into the details, but it got pretty steamy. It was like old times and it was soooooo comforting (to say the least). <P>I got to see and hear emotions from this man that I never thought him capable of sharing. I always knew they were there though. <P>In the light of day, I feel okay about it. Not like I was caught up in something and regret it. I don't know what it means or where it leads. Comforted is how I feel.<P>Did I just set myself for an inevitable fall? I'm thinking that some here have had this sort of experience. Just so you know my XH had already, in prior conversations, told me that he isn't seeing OW.<P>I really think that what we shared last night was more than just me "being available". I don't think: "oh my God, my marriage is restored". It is just what it is, for right now anyway.<P>Feedback please!!!!!!!<BR>Should I just take it for what it was, and not open that up again? I don't want to set up an unhealthy pattern of behavior. So please be frank.<P>Thanks<BR>Petrie

Hi Petrie,<P>After all that he has put you through? No, I do not mean it in a negative sense. Now hon, how do you feel? What did your H say or do (other than the 'you know stuff') to make you feel he is having a change of heart? Also is this a permanent change? <P>See these questions are the ones I am having to go through myself. H came back at the end of last month and if you read my last post, you will find we are still dealing with problems that won't go away and an H that is having a hard time. I do give him A for effort (the letter as a grade not the A word). <P>Anyway hon, want you to still keep a clear head. Sounds like someone maybe coming out of the fog?!??!? Will keep hoping. Keep posting and let us know. <P>You are out on the West Coast like me? I have my addr. on JFO.<P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P>

(((((rejected))))),<P>I'm not sure I know what to say...despite our divorces being finalized a week apart - you and I are in very different places in the letting go department.<P>I can only tell you that for me...once the divorce happened (and actually earlier) I crossed the point of no return. It wasn't about the piece of paper, or even the divorce process itself...I just finally had had enough - enough of all the crud that goes with affairs, enough "recovery," enough begin strung out emotionally...and when I hit that point, all desire for reconciliation ended. No amount of forgiveness on my part or repentence on his could repair the damage enough to make it worth my while to risk investing emotionally in my ex again. That point of no return is rock bottom. And for me, everything began to feel better and I began to cope better once I hit that spot and moved forward.<P>This, I firmly believe: You can forgive him, he can repent and truly mean it. BUT, despite yours and his best intentions, you will forever more have doubts. 99.9% of the time you will be able to trust him completely again and without reservation, but it only takes one odd moment, one missing, unexplained hour, one weird hang up on the phone and it will all come rushing back to you. It never goes away completely. This I know from experience, from taking my ex back after affair #1 and living with the doubt for 5 years until affair #2 reared her ugly head. Can you live with that doubt? Because that's what reconciliation after an affair is all about...living with the consequences...for both you and him.<P>That's the bargain with God/Devil you'll have to make... 0.1% of doubt forever more. Tread very carefully for your own sake...and guard your heart even more carefully.<P>Lisa

Thank you Orchid and Lisa,<P>guard my heart even more carefully........so true Lisa<P>I did really need to see a little fog lifting from my XH. I need to put some of this new found strength into use. Was I being weak and just giving into desire? I am thinking, yes.<BR>

Dear Petrie,<P>May I suggest you go to a certain site designed for right where you are at emotionally right now<BR>Its at <A HREF="http://members.truepath.com/covenantkeeper/help.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://members.truepath.com/covenantkeeper/help.htm</A> <BR>and follow the links to Godly people who have been where you are in anguish right now.<P>SpiritofHope

Rejected,<P>I would give my right arm to be in your position, or even to see my H display any emotion whatsoever except anger. My H has been gone over two years, and he has been completely devoid of emotion for the entire period. He was able to stand in court as he was divorcing me, where I told the judge that no, I did not believe that our differences were irreconcialable, and he showed no emotion. It is so much easier to be someone who can pull that off. <P>In my opinion, if you did not want the divorce, then you are still married to him. Divorce is only a piece of paper. There is no other contract in the world that one person can get out of unilaterally without any negative consequences for himself. It takes two people to make the decision to marry, and it takes two people to divorce, morally and ethically.

You seem to be holding out hope for reconcilliation, so at the very least, your experience shows there are some feelings on both sides, at some level.<P>A few months ago I would have sold my soul for what happened with you and your ex, but I've reached the point where I no longer have the courage to open myself up to my STBX. You obviously have not reached that spot. I have no sage advice to offer, but if this is what you truly want, then go after it.<P>Someone gave me some good advice a little while back. Guard your heart. That doesn't mean to build a wall around it, but just keep watch over it.<P>I wish you luck Petrie. It sounds like you might have the opportunity so many of us prayed for. Only you can decide if your heart is strong enough.<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Petrie,<P>Well girl I think he may be sticking his foot in the door to ensure that it remains open.<P>A similar thing happened to me a few weeks ago. STBX was over and we started talking. At one point he mentioned that we should get seperate bank accounts this made me cry as it is just one more step in the D process. He held me and held me, then HE initiated kissing. We stood in the kitchen like that for a long time. We both told each other that we shouldn't take it any further but we did....in the after math I felt comforted like yourself. It was almost a release for me. I was able to let go of him, in a way. It was a very strange thing. <P>I don't really have any advice except take very small steps at this point. Guard your heart my dear!! <P>Keep us posted.<P><BR>

I had a similiar thing happen with my ex just about twenty days before the divorce was final. <P>We stood on the porch in each other's arms crying... and I also, as others who had this happen, felt strangely comforted.<P>As *nice* as it was, it had crossed the point of no return for me, and I had to be careful. I'd been hurt too much. I had to do what <B>CJ</B> says, "Guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life". I took it for what it was worth (a reaching out to someone we once loved very much and still cared deeply about) and will always remember that in our hour of need, we could look past our differences and show compassion.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

(((((((((Petrie)))))))))))))))<P>I think your going to get different opinions based on what stage each person is at in their own divorce recovery.<P>You will never ever trust your H again, if you two recover, but guess what, you will trust a new man about the same. There will still be that doubt when they are late, I have experienced this personally with moving on after divorce.<P>The only thing I would worry about is if he doesn't take some time away from you as well as OW, and you move forward, he can always wonder if he got into something too soon. I believe in giving space, and if they get past the space, and come back around, then there should be time to have been missed and thought about.<P>In the end, you have to do what's best for you, and what you feel comfortable with. Just know that at this point, if it doesn't work out , the physical contact will slow down your healing process.<P>What about seeing a counselor, maybe even together?<P>Prayers are with you, Dana<BR>

Petrie<P>I really dont know your whole story with your XH and I'm not trying to get too personal with you. But if that moment did get as "steamy" as you said it did. I hope you protected yourself.<BR>Stuff like that scares the HE** out of me, that is why i am not to thrilled about being out in the dating world again.<BR>And if my STBX came back to me, i would have her tested for everything under the sun.<P>That was just a thought, i really didnt mean to shift the focus from your feelings.<P>God Bless and good luck.<P>------------------<BR>Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

Petrie,<P>First you reminded me of something my wife said to me about a year ago when she first left - she said that if we were to try again, then it would have to be like starting from the beginning, all the way down to new rings. Since she said that to me, over the months, I have read right here on this site how other spouses said and did similar things. To me it is absolutely crazy, but for some, a divorce is needed to fix the marriage. Even writing that I have a incredibly hard time understanding it, but for some it is how they feel. I don't know if this went through your husband's mind or not, but I thought I would just throw it out there.<P>I also wanted to emphasize something Dana wrote, because I think it bears repeating - for all of us who have been hurt and/or betrayed, just because a relationship maybe with someone new, it does not mean we are going to have any more or less trust than if it was with our first spouse. Why? Because we carry that hurt with us. Sure it will dull over time, but it will always be there. I still have wounds from other romances that did not even last a tenth of the time I was with my wife. The hurts are their, whether we like it or not, they are ours to keep. It is what we do with the wounds I believe makes all the difference.<P>It would be so easy for us to doubt everyone, not trust another person from the opposite sex - basically hold everyone at arms length. But I think that would make for a sad and lonely life. Trust is part of each and every relationship we form - the more trust that exists, the more fullfilling the relationship becomes. But I digress....<P>I think as far as you and your husband are concerned, time will tell. You can choose to begin to trust again only when you are ready. WE ARE ALL HUMAN. We all make mistakes. Some are just on a grander scale than others.<P>And finally, I believe in love - I believe that if "two" people put their faith in love, then nothing can stop them. But that is just me.<P>Whatever happens, be thankful for the memory you made the other night - many of us never get those kinds of chances. The last memories we have of our spouses are the ones when they are in "the fog"....<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Petrie, I think Dana summed it up very well. You took a risk, and only time will tell whether it will pay off or whether it will cost you instead.<P>However, that said, I would advise against making a habit of this kind of behavior. You <I>don't</I> want to get sucked back into the same old relationship. As Mike suggested, you don't really need a <I>restored</I> marriage: you need a <I>new</I> marriage, built on a foundation that you both understand and agree on.<P>One comment on that whole trust thing. I agree that you will never have the same kind of trust that you once had, with anyone. Innocence once lost can never be regained (although we're really talking about naivete here rather than innocence). However, I also believe that there can also be a stronger <I>basis</I> for trust after a betrayal, <I>if</I> the betrayer has <I>really</I> learned from the experience. Who is more trustworthy? Someone who never faced temptation; or someone who succumbed, but who now knows the cost and recoils at the very idea of doing it again?<P>I envy those with a naive trust, because it's such a comfort. But although I know I can never trust that way again, I would rather open myself to the risk of another betrayal than to shut myself up in my own private bunker. (Of course, not being altogether a fool, I would not take such a risk without clear reason to believe that betrayal was unlikely.)<BR>

Petrie,<P>I was re-reading my journal from my nightmare last week, and something Gnome said, is something I said too. I miss my innocence, that naive trust I used to have. It is gone forever and never will come back. That can't be an excuse not to try again in this relationship if it ever comes down to just that.<P>Second, I am proof that even if you go out there in the dating world and meet a really great guy, a betrayal can happen...again. In my case, I learned an important lesson, don't date anyone who hasn't been separated from their ex for a good amount of time, or that ex is maybe remarried or something. Ex's all hold a strange power over us. I know mine does still.<P>Also, I don't know if you've read any of my other posts to CJ, but when I was 21, (even younger and more naive), 7 years ago, me and now exH split up for a year. About 5 months before we got back together, we started sleeping together. At first, it was possibly out of comfort from what I remember. But I also had been casually seeing someone (no commitment) and ex didn't like that. We kept that up for a while, and then one day, I had enough. I said, this is crazy, we were together 5 years before this and now we're acting this way? I deserve better. (guess I was stronger in a way back then too). I walked away from him. He kept chasing me for about 4 more months, and in the middle of his suicide attempt to get my attention, he knew I wouldn't turn my back on him, because its just how I am. Unfortunately he figured out no matter how badly I was treated , I didn't hold a grudge or stay mad.<P>Well, we went to counseling and started over, as friends. No intimacy. It was weird. Very weird. But we did fall in love , as 2 different people all over again. Of course, we went on to be married, have a child and have a great life, until he had a 3rd affair with OW #3 and we are now parted forever.<P>An interesting note, I have some info that his fiancee/OW is NOW the cheater on him. So what comes around goes around right>?<P>Anyhow, I just want to say, to please be careful until you know what his intentions are. Remember the way he turned on you when OW was around. Realize that you might possibly be some sort of rebound after his fog lifted, even though you were also once his wife. But again, he could be just waking up. I've heard of people remarrying again too.<P>So until you know, just be careful , and don't get your hopes up, or get your feelings too involved until you really know what PETRIE wants. <P>I have a girlfriend who can turn her emotions off. I can't. I don't know that we can with an ex like that, but the comment about not making a habit of it, that was very true. Show respect for yourself and make him work for it, (appologies to the men).<P>Hugs,<BR>Dana<BR>

Thank you everyone<BR>great advise and support<BR>I appreciate how I can get so many perspectives and you all can look at things from all sides.<P>One good thing about what happened is the fact that he really shared with me the emotion I so desperately wanted him to express (& I don't mean sexually speaking). And it came on his terms, not me demanding it-but just freely. I am thankful for the memory that night created. If it never happens again and nothing comes of it, I will be okay and it gave me peace. <P>On a trivial side note- He saw what a beautiful home I've created for myself (and of course immaculate!)-he said he would have expected nothing less from me. That meant alot to me.<P>All along I wondered if my XH ever gave me a second thought or missed me etc., knowing full well that I shouldn't occupy my thoughts with that. Well, of course he thinks about me, and even misses me. And it was really nice to hear him say that.<P>I will be keeping watch over my heart. I will also keep posting and seeking advise and your council.<BR>Thanks again. <BR>yes, I do have a smile on my face. I'd like to think that it's a good thing.