BIG thanks to all of you who responded to my post and gave me a lot of hope and great advice.<P>I had a meeting with an attorney last week. Well, I definitely didn't hear what I expected to hear. I was expecting to hear that my husband's adultery will have some meaning, that he will have to answer some of my questions about it etc. What the lawyer told me was that a no-fault state is NO FAULT, period. I also cannot get him to marriage counseling because we've been going there before and the judge will not order him to go again. <BR>I brought a pile of emails and ICQ logs that I found after I was served with the divorce papers. Husband was talking to OW for a loooong time. I also found some pictures of him nude. Attorney said "irrelevant" plus I cannot prove that I have taken them from his computer and that the judge will not allow to admit them as evidence. She also told me that judging from the length of our marriage and from the fact that I was employed before, I will most likely NOT get permanent alimony, and I will be lucky if I get some temporary support. <BR>She also looked at the papers that my husband's attorney filed and she said that things are not good for me. She said that they are alleging a lot of things, and that they wouldn't really be doing it if they didn't have proof. She said that they will put me through hell and back with evaluations, questions, depositions and all the other stuff, and that the best option is to settle. <P>I saw another attorney the next day and he told me more or less the same. He also noted that my husband hired one of the best attorneys in the state and that this is always a factor. The better attorney, the more resources and contact they have. <P>Also, I was told that the judge will not tell my husband to pay my attorney's fees, because I have credit cards and that I can pay my attorney this way.<P>So, here I am. Does any of you guys have some insight on this? Everybody tells me that I should settle, because if I don't, then the divorce will drag and eat up all the assets. But I don't want to settle because I do not want the divorce in the first place. Am I just being stubborn?<P>I haven't been so puzzled in my life before. <P>I forgot to add that my last attorney dropped me, because I didn't have money to pay her and she said she won't accept a credit card.<BR>By now, I have a contempt of court coming for not providing information. Husband's attorney said they were sending all the documents to my former attorney, but she doesn't even want to talk to me. So here I am, catch 22.<p>[This message has been edited by ann williams (edited May 12, 2001).]

I have just realized what a stupid naive woman I was. <P>I was waiting all the time for the day when he comes back and says that he's sorry. I was waiting for him to notice all the effort I have put into trying to piece things back together. <BR>The mistake I made was saying "I do not want the divorce, I want to be married to you and make things perfect again".<P>Does it ever happen that the leaving person notices that the left one is in pain and is sorry and wants to work on the marriage?<BR>Or is the sugar-candy life with the OW [or the fantasy about it] more tempting?

Good old No Fault. Even my atty thinks it is a crock of .... but not much we can do about it.<P>I heard all the same stuff from two atty's here as well.<P>I hate to say this but I think you should just settle. Dragging things out will not save your marriage. In fact it just makes H feel more justified in his actions.<P>It really bites I know!! Right now anyway sugar candy <B>COATED</B> life with OW will win but wait until he gets to the empty middle. What he thought was a solid chocolate egg is most likely hollow on the inside.<P>Hang in there. You will be the one smiling in the end when exH is wondering why he messed with what he had originally.<P>All these affair stories remind me of Esopf (sp) Fable about the dog and his reflection and how he grabbed for the bone that the "other" dog had and in the end ended up with nothing! <P>Take Care.

I have finally realized what I should have realized in the beginning - that you succeed by taking what you what, never trusting or depending on anyone else, and never giving a d*** about how it affects anyone else. I just haven't been able to bring myself to follow that advice yet, which is why I am in danger of being homeless and my kids and I are in danger of going hungry.<P>DO WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO TO ENSURE YOUR FINANCIAL SECURITY AND THAT OF YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU HAVE ANY. That is all the matters. The betrayer, once the OW has her hooks into him, will not care whether you live or die, or whether you have a roof over your head. They will do anything for an OW who can support them. They will stop loving their kids. <P>

I agree. No fault really s**ks.<P>I don't know what will work for you, however for me it worked to be proactive. I didn't want the divorce either, but I felt that it was important for our children that I protect their interests. So I filed first, I established primary residential custody, etc.<P>I don't have the problem of whether to settle or not. The stbx refuses to negotiate on any point, preferring to go before the judge, where she always loses.<P>There are lots of resources on the net to help you get through this. Too many people are in the same place. It is good to inform yourself regarding your rights and responsibilities. Also, if you can do a lot of the grunt work for your lawyer you will reduce your costs. You may also get some ideas of possible legal strategies.<P>I am sorry that you are in this place. Good Luck to you

Hi Ann,<P>I was happy to see that in your second post, you seem to be getting angry. That's good! Because you need to get into a defensive posture- AND FAST! And, when you are as beaten down as you now are, sometimes anger is the only driving force for action. <P>Believe me, I know the situation sucks, it's unfair, you don't deserve this. But, IT IS, and you MUST deal with it as best you can. Harness that anger and focus it into protecting yourself and your self interests. Because if you don't look out for yourself, no one else is going to. Sad, but true.<P>Educate yourself. Knowledge is power and the internet has a wealth of information. Go to the library and bookstores and get some books on divorce and the divorce laws in your state, especially. It's true that if you can gather the necessary information yourself, the costs should be much less for you. Why pay some lawyer $325 an hour for something you can do yourself?? Attorneys are simply marketing their time. Find out what information H's attorney is requesting, then forward it to him. It's most likely something you already have access to; you don't need an attorney to furnish documents.<P>Don't be intimidated because your H hired some hotshot lawyer. It simply means his part of the divorce is going to cost him more! I don't agree that because your H is alleging certain things, that they must be true and suppportable. Anybody can allege anything. It could just be a smokescreen in hopes that you'll roll over without a fight. Don't take the bait!! The courts are still bound by the laws that have been enacted in your state.<P>It sounds as if you are currently unemployed. If so, get out there and get a job! Also, most credit cards have cash advance options. That might be one way to put together a retainer fee so that you can hire an attorney. Borrow some money, if you must.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you. Just don't forget that you're not alone. There are many of us going through the same thing.

Firstly educate yourself of your rights.<P>My atty had me request full custody and everything more than I wanted just to get the ball rolling and get my ex off his a**. He would never hire an atty and I would still be married to him despite all his dating and running around if I had not started things. So I said things I could not substantiate -- meaning they were TRUE but unprovable in a court of law. So a less honest person could lie.<P>You probably have every right to see your kids at least half of the time. Get experts to help you if you think it is bad for the children (no sour grapes) to be with him because of <BR> A) location of their school<BR> B) if he moved away from their primary residence by more than 50 miles.<BR> C) special needs such as doctors.<BR>No, "I hate that woman he is with and I never want the kids around her." They will consider that tough s***. So don't even mention it.<P>But do not sacrifice your children's financial needs. Get down and dirty with pencil and paper about what they have been getting as far as support -- are they in the middle of braces? do they get educational services paid for? You probably don't have acceptable insurance yet, so they should stay on his. Think about these things. Does he have a will in which the children are already named? Are they entitled to an insurance policy if the unforeseen should happen to him? If these were in place before the divorce, then you need to be firm that you expect them to still be available to the children -- but not for YOU. Sorry. These things are in addition to the usual support you need to respectfully demand. Don't sacrifice for your childrens needs -- even judges don't like that.<P>As for you, only ask for what you absolutely need to get back on your feet. It would be reasonable to ask for help to renew any professional licenses you let expire since you have been married. But only help. Show the judge you are willing to do your part. It is hard when you are depressed and rejected, but YOU CAN DO IT!!! Start pounding the pavement and show initiative. If you are trying and can prove it, the judge will give you time to find work and help you out a little. But you can't whine about his affair and how this is his choice. I know it is not fair. It really isn't. But you have to take care of you now, and no one else is going to. The courts will try to help the kids, but the adults are on their own (with the help of the attys).<P>Cooperate as much as possible without compromising on your needs. Sometimes it is wise to ask for a little more than you need so there is negotiating room, but check with your atty. You can get one. I will pray for you on that one! I was fortunate to get a good one right away, but you still have to bug them to do their job, and your best friend is your own education on the subject.<P>Again, Ann -- You CAN DO IT!! Be confident and sure of yourself. For now, don't think about him coming back. Practice plan B and pour your energy into finding work and taking care of yourself and your kids (if you have any). Become that woman who he is going to be sorry he left behind -- not just the woman he married, but so so much better! And you are!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ann williams:<BR><B>I had a meeting with an attorney last week. Well, I definitely didn't hear what I expected to hear. I was expecting to hear that my husband's adultery will have some meaning, that he will have to answer some of my questions about it etc. What the lawyer told me was that a no-fault state is NO FAULT, period.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>"No-fault" divorce is actually a misnomer. What it really means is "no-responsibility". But since that terminology probably wouldn't have gone over real big when the law's proponents were trying to get the law passed, they picked a euphemism instead.<P>In a "no-fault" state, the only thing the courts care about is disentangling your finances and legal obligations. Grounds are entirely irrelevant unless custody of children is involved. So if that's not an issue, trying to address grounds is just going to be a waste of money. Worse, while the attorneys would love for you to rack up bills in this way, the judge probably has a big backlog of cases and is highly motivated to get your case over with as quickly as possible.<P>My mother-in-law's attorney never got a chance to bring up some important financial issues because the judge got so fed up with all fuss being made about the grounds (which were never really in dispute), that he cut everything short and just made a ruling.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She also looked at the papers that my husband's attorney filed and she said that things are not good for me. She said that they are alleging a lot of things, and that they wouldn't really be doing it if they didn't have proof. She said that they will put me through hell and back with evaluations, questions, depositions and all the other stuff, and that the best option is to settle.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A pessimistic outlook is probably the most realistic outlook. The best option <I>is</I> to settle, if negotiation is actually possible.<P>In my judgment, however, this attorney's advice is highly suspect. The belief that your husband or his attorney wouldn't allege something without proof is mind-boggling in its naivete. <I>Maybe</I> the attorney you consulted knows something specific about how your husband's attorney operates, but in the (admittedly few) divorce cases I have witnessed close-up, the quantity of allegations seems to have been more prized than the quality. The idea seems to be to drown out the pertinent facts by a flood of irrelevancies. If one bluff is called, a lawyer can just move onto the next one, and hope that the judge isn't really paying that close attention.<BR>

Thank You All so much for the great advice and motivation. <P>I went over and talked to the clerk of the court, who is a very nice person. I got copies of all the documents filed and I also got help in responding to husband's attorney's last motion.<P>There was a hearing that I did not know about before and I learned about it the last minute. I went in and guess what?! The judge gave me 2 months to complete all the procedures and take care of my side of the case.<BR>He also said that I can put my lawyer's fees on my credit cards, but oh well.<P>I started doing some research on the net and I found out lots of useful info.<P>The only problem is: I DO NOT WANT THE DIVORCE. It would be easier if my husband was an a$$ and it all was about money. But it's not. It is so hard to do things that you really don't want to do .<P>But, thanks to You All, things are getting straightened up.<BR>