I posted my divorce scenario on the Emotional Needs board instead of here. I have filed, but my hostile husband hasn't been served yet. We have a fairly complete communication breakdown (what a shock), and I was looking for some input/advice. The subject heading is "Novice Pre-Divorcee." Maybe if you get a minute you can take a look at it? Thanks a million!<P>Nell

Hi Nell, welcome to MB, I'm sorry we have to meet on the Divorcing board!!<P>I am also divorcing an alcoholic. And I, like you, spent years in Al-Anon and therapy to get to the place that I am at now, where I can cut the ties.<P>If you are being bullied by your H, then go through the lawyer. Cut contact with your H, and find out through your attorney what your rights are. I have heard that a judge may indeed order a house sold to pay for fees...but I don't know that for sure, and I am sure it depends on what state you are in, and what your circumstances are.<P>Get your kids help too!! My sons are 10 and 8, absolutely loved the BABES program, that was run by a local county Subastance Abuse Council. We talk together alot about their dad, and they understand our divorce and the context of their father's affair (they only knows about 1) under the influence of alcohol. My oldest son is also seeing a therapist, which he absolutely loves. It is his safe place to go express himself and it does wonders for him.<P>I tell both my kids that first off all, Alateen will be a requirement when they are old enough. No if ands or buts.<P>And then I tell them they better start saving for their therapist fees - they'll be in therapy when they are 30 undoing the mess we have made out of them!! They get a giggle out of that.<P>My Al-Anon sponsor always tells me that alcoholics have a 6th sense - knowing just when they have stepped over the line too far, and they will bend over backwards to get you back into their comfort zone. <P>It sounds like your H is trying to get you to go back to your nice behavior that allowed him to comfortably continue his behavior.<P>My H has done that alot to me. I have finally recognized it for what it is. The night I told him that I was re-opening my divorce suit, he literally got down on his knees and promised to do everything and anything. He said everything I ever wanted to hear. I held on to my boundary.<P>The next day, in a fit of doubt, I wrote him a letter, and told him that if he really meant what he had promised....I would reconsider the divorce if he joined AA, got a sponsor and stayed for at least 3 months.<P>And he told me that no way was he going to do that.<P>When push came to shove, he choose the booze over his family. Absolutely.<P>You already know though, how strong a grip that alcoholism can have...and you already know that your H is incapable of participating in his marriage while he chooses to forgo treatment for his disease.<P>The affairs are just the most painful symptom. I could have lived with my H's drinking - no sweat. I couldn't bear his infidelities. <P>Anyway, keep coming back!!! MB works if you work it too!

<B>Nell</B>,<P>I don't post much on D/D, but happened to see yours on EN, then this one. I'm going to paste what you posted on EN below this to make it easier for others to respond.<P>Good luck,<P>Steve<P><B>The following is her post on EN:</B><P>After several stormy years and an even stormier attempt at separation/reconciliation, my husband and I are divorcing. The Reader's Digest version is we are both alcoholics. I recovered; he didn't. Flat out refused to. That in itself is not too bad unless you consider the domineering control, lies, manipulation, and numerous affairs I've had to deal with coming from him alone. The bottom line is that he is not willing to quit drinking to save his family. I've worked with AA, Al-Anon, psychiatrists, and counselors to get to this point I'm at now, and I want a better life.<BR>Several weeks ago, my husband refused to speak to me about our marriage or impending divorce. He vilified me in a spate of hate email from his work, and he refused to speak with me on the phone or in person. (He's having another affair I learned, and he doesn't know I know about it.) It was awful, but I backed off. Later, I approached again asking if we could sit down and discuss our marital agreement (settlement), and he turns hostile on me. His body language was foreboding, so I backed off again. This has happened on numerous occasions, and apparently he is concerned with getting "ripped off." I've offerred to keep it simple and easy at first, discussing things we could agree on so that we could both gain some feeling of success and mutual control. He promises to talk to me, but does not follow through.<P>So, two days ago I went ahead and filed for a contested divorce. It's cheaper to start out this way and downgrade to uncontested than the other way around. He has been the one screaming up and down how awful I am and how we'll never work out and how we need a divorce. Since then, he's called twice, and I haven't returned the phone calls. He said (ans. machine) he wanted to let me know that the tax refund was deposited in the bank (already knew that one--getting my half tomorrow). Next phone call he says, "I need to talk to you." Oh really?<P>He hasn't been served the petition for divorce papers yet, but I expect that will be in the next few days. I don't want to give him prior notice, because I don't want to get into a heated exchange. Of course, the terms for the divorce will upset him, and I may get a nasty phone call. What was I supposed to do? I have a life, too. I want to move on as well.<P>I am afraid of this man whenever we talk about money, assets, property, and debts. He uses rapid-fire verbal pummeling to confuse me and get his way, and he is really good at it. His hostility level rises to the point that I'm afraid he might deck me (he looks like someone who would start a bar room brawl). If we go through the lawyers for discussion, that's gonna cost a lot. I could get a friend to witness our discussion, but I might need some help dodging his verbal spears.<P>As I write this I'm thinking, "Just eat the fees and go through the lawyer." I'm kind of scared of this divorce process anyway. We've been together 14 years, married 12. We have a 10-year old son. We still do NOT live together. My husband wants to sell our house so he can pay for his lawyer. Hello. The kid and I still live here. Maybe he's spent too much of our marital assets boinking Suzy Q. He makes a considerable income as a hospital supervisor to my paltry wages as a freelance writer. I dipped into my premarital IRA to fund my divorce.<P>Anyone had a similar experience? Thoughts from the sages? Thanks a heap you guys.<P>STB a statistic,<BR>Nell<P>

Thanks BR and SH,<P>Not too long ago I figured out that Al-Anon did not give out medals to spouses who stayed with their alcoholics. Sure the choice is an individual one, and I'll bet there are a few loving, quasi-functional alcoholic families out there. I would have given anything for one of those even, but I chose what I chose, and I got what I got.<P>My son has been deeply touched by alcoholism. He witnessed my near destruction and my recovery. He almost always came with me to my meetings, so proud whenever I spoke or earned a chip! He even went to a few Ala-Teen meetings with some kids of a friend of mine, although he was a bit young at the time. As I progressed in my recovery and began to stand up to my bully of a husband, I arranged for him to see a counselor who specialized in the treatment of alcoholism (my child is no stranger to the mental health system--he has a psychiatrist who treats his ADD).<P>My husband has always maintained that he is not an alcoholic, but we all (and probably he) know better. When I first quit drinking, he defiantly drank in the house and kept liquor in the cabinet and beer in the frige. Then he decided to "help" me by drinking "moderately" while still keep alcohol in the house. This past year, he has not had any alcohol in the house at all, and I hardly saw him. It was always work or his hobby (recording music) or just "running errands." I was not a part of his life outside the home, and I felt as if I was being "kept." Consequently, or marriage deteriorated to the critical point where I told him I needed a sober husband who includes me in his activities and intimate life. Well no, he's not quitting drinking because it's my problem, not his. Well, so it is, and I'll see ya.<P>It was pretty tense and horrible around here for many years. I feel like I can breathe again. My son is more relaxed. I really do love my husband, and I don't know why because he has been quite inconsiderate and mean to me. The Internet trysts with gay and bisexual men, and the 2 affairs with ladies from work (that I know about) just did me in. He cannot fathom how this all affects me, and I can see why now.<P>So, I'm really pretty calm about it right now. I'm sure there will be some more tense moments during this process. I guess what I want you to know is that I'm very scared of being by myself with my son. I'm afraid I won't make it on my own. I want to be independent, and I want to find love again. I know that this painful ordeal has to be done for my own happiness and sanity, because I was miserable where I came from. I'm asking for some support, some pearls of wisdom, anything to help me get through this without feeling like the failure I feel like now. I want to be successful. I think I need to get away from this man, to another state closer to my family; there's no one here for me in Florida. I need to find some source of income, because I've been home on leave from teaching for 1 1/2 years. At the height of my husband's alcoholic abuse (while I was sober), I was newly diagnosed bipolar (age 45; I'm 46 now). Teaching is too stressful for my disorder, though I am stable right now on meds. (I have been working as a freelance writer on the Internet, and I have applied for Social Security.) I also have PTSD from the emotional violence I've been subjected to, and major depression. I'm not saying I'm a victim, either. I eroneously participated in my husband's rampages, but I was not very good at defending myself. I gave my power away because it was easier than dealing with his rage. But now I'm taking it back, along with my self-esteem and my self-respect.<P>There is more, but I want to stop here. I have trouble reading some of the long posts, and I don't want to bore my potential supporters. I come here usually several times during the day, so I hope I can be of help to someone as well as receive help. Thanks again. You all are special to me.<P>To a new life,<BR>Nell

Hi Nell, I'm sorry it took so long for me to get back to you...I didn't look far enough down the topic list!!<P>You will be independent again. You need to give yourself time to heal before looking for love again.<P>Just keep coming back! MB has some wonderful people here.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>