Well, just to satisfy the curious, i have been a competitive sailor all my life, as well as a professional as in oil tanker officer and captain for 8 years after graduation.<BR>I have my name on two collegiate national sailing championships, as well as a host of other regional championships.<P>She has never been on a sailboat, but if she <B>looks</B> at a sailboat and hurls, well, that would be a problem in my book. Now, if she walked up with a trapeze harness on, and asked me where is the 420 and when is the start? i would get down on one knee and propose. but, in reality, i gave up that dream a long time ago, and now really only race ocassionally, by myself, and will sail for pleasure, but having done so much of it in my life, there are many other new activities to learn and enjoy, that racing together would only be a luxury, and vacationing on a boat once a summer or so would be perfect.<P>Now, i don't think that violates principle #1, does it?<P>And Dana, i am with you, i can ony deal with one at a time, and will i get married again? maybe, we will see, but being married is not the goal, <B>a healthy, fun, respectful, intimate relationship is the goal.</B><P>sWIFTTy<BR>

Jill,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> When he suggests different things or says what worked for his daughter, I get defensive and upset. I also think to myself, how can he compare the two situations. One child vs. two. 9 year old vs. 4 and 6 1/2 years olds. I get upset because he makes it sound so easy. That he has all<BR>the answers and I do not. Has anyone else been through this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, and the attitude is ego-driven, competitive and is very destructive. Jen, i feel strongly on this point, and am hitting you over the head with a 2x4 to wake you up. I had to put up with this attitude to the point where if i made any suggestions, was put down for being a business man and therefore did not have any experiences, thoughts, experiences that were valuable. yet i came from a normal family, and X came from a FUBAR family, so i had instilled in me lots of good viewpoints, as well as being well read.<P>Well, my opinions threatened my X's percieved position as the child guru inthe relationship, and used to openly discourage me with my values and suggestions in front of the children. That really sucked, and pissed me right off, since X has some very FUBAR and selfish approaches to child rearing, and I had some very good, developmental ideas, which she has acknowledged, but will never again since she is struggling with them now, and her behavior has caused everyone grief.<P>Jen, I suggest that you work on this issue before you get any farther down the road, because it will become a point of resentment for you, unnecessarily so, if you don't examine it, and if you keep it, then be sure to find an opinionless lemming for a mate. BTW, my XFIL is a opinionless lemming, which is what my X wants, and therefore why she is dating a single, significantly less intelligent-leveled person.<P>and this post is strong because of very negative experiences, not to criticize you personally!<P>tom<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR><B><P> a healthy, fun, respectful, intimate relationship is the goal.<P>sWIFTTy</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, that's for Nick too. And if I meet someone and I feel the chemistry, I'm not going to comparison shop. I never regretted my choice in a mate the first time (until 9 months ago, obviously). If it feels right with #2, I'd be stupid to give her up in hopes of somebody better down the line....<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited May 17, 2001).]

Re: "how involved should he be regarding discipline?" <P>He shouldn't and you should vise/versa with his child (what I've heard on the infamous Dr. Laura show over and over) Only you implement with your own. Although it would be hard to always hear "what worked for his daughter". What may work for one of your own children may not work for another child of yours. I agree with WIFTT, resentment will rear it's ugly head if you don't deal with this subject A.S.A.P.<P>Hey Tom, I've been dragging Sail Magazine home from work for years! Flatlanders gotta dream too! Glad to know of your accomplishments and your love of the sea! You are soooo lucky and so is your lady! I truly hope she passes the test!<P>I gotta go, I smell salt water in the air........nope that's cornfield irrigation starting up!<P>Ragamuffin

Swiftty,<P>Too much math for this English major...I figure marriage #1 lasted 15 1/2 years...and I didn't apply one single math formula to that equation...<P>Next time, I've got experience on my side, plus a whole lot of learned communication skills, HNHN's, etc...and I'm going to find someone who buys into the theory of marriage being a lifetime commitment...not a "when it's convenient" commitment.<P>Healthy, fun, respectful, intimate and <B>HONEST</B>...yep...works for me!<P>Lisa<P>------------------<BR>I am woman...hear me roar...okay - meow...okay - purr? Hey, I'm working on it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by On*My*Own:<BR><B>Next time, I've got experience on my side, plus a whole lot of learned communication skills, HNHN's, etc...and I'm going to find someone who buys into the theory of marriage being a lifetime commitment...not a "when it's convenient" commitment.<P>Healthy, fun, respectful, intimate and HONEST</B>...yep...works for me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Amen Sister!!!!<P>

Ragamuffin,<P><B> ROTFLMAO </B><P>that was a good one! Hey, why even think about geting married again? why not just be a couple and enjoy each other's company? you each have your own families, houses, etc, you don't need a ring and paperwork any more really do you?<P><B> Nick </B><P>After alot of thinking, at the moment, she is concerned about a rebound relationship, me the younger independent of the two. However, I am not, since i have done alot of work over the years, and feel very comfortable where i am at the moment, for me, and am willing to give her plenty of time, and really don't have any plans to let her go at all.<P><B> Jen </B><P>its not that he has to discipline your kids, but you should keep an open mind, and evaluate his suggestions from his experience, and try some. But if he gives you his suggestions, he is trying to be helpful, supportive, etc.<P>Remember, no one is an expert at parenting, its just that we can't know all the possibilities, and the best answer without trying some options, and talking about different options.<P>I would hope you can listen and think about his suggestions, rather than react, as he is not disciplining your kids, but rather trying to communicate with you, and converse with you in an area he has some experience, and some opinions.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited May 17, 2001).]

"you don't need a ring and paperwork any more really do you?"....would it be best to call this "committed companionship"? Paper and jewelery scare the #%$@ out of me, funny, I never used to have an adversion to them!<BR>

You know, I used to think that I could never date more than one person at a time, but I have discovered that it is very possible. I have dated a bit since my divorce, nothing serious (save the first disaster a month after the divorce..shudder). I had fun comparison shopping and didn't get exclusive because none of the people I met had the qualities that I would want in a lifetime mate. Not that I am looking for one. I have met someone, and though we are by no means exclusive, the desire to date other people has kind of dwindled. I am free to do it, but if I were looking for someone, I would be looking for him. I have a very separate life and LOTS of space. I like it.<BR> <P>

Tom:<P>Ouch! Just picking myself up from the ground and pulling the splinters out. Just kidding. Thanks for your candid post. I agree I need to be open minded. And, I really know that I do not have all the answers and I would appreciate all that he can bring to the table. It was just the way that he kept saying it. Like his daughther was the perfect child because of the way he disciplined her. But, I have met her, and she is a great kid, but she is not perfect and she does misbehave and act up sometimes just like mine. I think that is perfectly ok. It's like he doesn't see this in his child but clearly can point it out in mine. That's what grated on my nerves. And, he wants to go beyond just giving advice. He wants to be involved in the discipline too if we continue going forward with the possibility of marriage one day. So, this is what I am struggling with. I really do think he has good intentions and is only trying to help but I'm not sure that he is using the best approach. I'm not sure what the best approach should be.<P>Now, back to your latest question, I think you should stay with #2 and not date others. <P>

So... Tom... what did you decide?<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

This was the original choice, but i was just questioning myself, and <B> #2 is the one until she decides something different </B> i have no desire to date anyone else, and i am not in a rush, i am in a very comfortable place right now. I like nick's statement, if she matches, capture her,<BR>i like gsd's statement, the desire to date others dwindles to nothing. <P>so right now, i am just very comfortable, i smile alot, i think about a fun future, and i am not going to be blinded by hormones, (as difficult as it may be, since she is so damn cute!) but rather conversed to death to really get to know this friend.<P>good thread, though. and good thoughts Jen have you talked with your friend about how you are feeling/reacting to his mannerisms about the problem? <P>finally, i feel sWIFTTy<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited May 17, 2001).]

Yeah for you!<P>That sums up my feelings exactly too. Comfortable. A gentle wanting or curiousity. That is the way it should be. Not a hurried desperation. You seem pretty relaxed about it too. Taking it as it comes....<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR><B> Nick </B><P>After alot of thinking, at the moment, she is concerned about a rebound relationship, me the younger independent of the two. However, I am not, since i have done alot of work over the years, and feel very comfortable where i am at the moment, for me, and am willing to give her plenty of time, and really don't have any plans to let her go at all.<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know, I had a discussion with someone about this very recently, and we both agreed that the first relationship one enters into after divorce doesn't neccesarily "need" to end up a <I>rebound</I>. Semantics to be sure, but I too am comfortable with who I am and where I'm at right now. I could never have imagined myself saying that 9 months ago, but many people here told me that all it takes is time, and it does.<P><BR>So when I meet someone, and if I feel the chemistry, I'm not going to apply some arbitrary standard, such as relationship #x or x# of months since... or any of those romance algorithms bandied about around here. I'm almost a grown up. I know who I am and where I'm going. If I meet someone who would like to tag a long, and if she feels right to me, and I feel right to her, then she's the one I want. <P>And I know the statistics, I'm just not planning on preemptively validating them with my life <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again<P><p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited May 18, 2001).]

Well said Nick. I like what you wrote!<P>So, what if you have found the one who wants to tag along with you for a lifetime, how long would you wait before marriage? <P>Tom - Yes, I did talk to him about how I felt and we even read about exactly what I was thinking/feeling in a book last night about helping chidlren survive divorce. It talked about how we are blind to the faults of our own children and are quick to know exactly what to do with the other children. So, we discussed that and I feel much better today. That's the best part of our relationship. We talk everything out. We get upset sometimes but we make sure we talk it out.<p>[This message has been edited by 711 (edited May 18, 2001).]

<B> Jen, </B><P>That's great! that's exactly what a good relationship is really all about. I was told by X that i could take my relationship books and shove it! and you know what, that's one part of the new relationship that i really like, after living with a person who can't talk about new stuff, or get excited about anything new, bachelorette #2 can talk, can converse, can chat and the topics aren't restricted to anything because of fear, maybe ignorance, which is acceptable. and she likes to read to learn, which i do, and talk about it. <P>You know, meeting these EN's really do work! It really does pay off to find someone more like yourself than more different than yourself. and an nice physical attraction doesn't hurt either!<P><B> Nick </B><P>Well said, that's what the sailing test is all about. <BR>---------------<BR>X knew i was a dinghy sailor, knew i was a professional ship officer at the time we met, and the first time i took her out in a 12 foot motor boat at the beach where i summered for 15 years, <I> she asked me if i knew what i was doing? </I> <B> i should have figured out something wasn't right, right then and there. </B><BR>---------------<P>And I do have some good stories about the boats X and I have sailed on, and she liked some of them, but in general, always had some complaints about something instead of enjoying the trip. always had complaints about different people, instead of remembering the good stuff we saw. I could go on, but you get the drift.<P>And who really knows when bachelorette #3 will come out behind the curtain? she might be caught in traffic on the way to the studio <P>

Shhh, don't tell Student I posted here, she will come and chatize me for getting on with my life!!!!<BR>Tom, I have been lurking, reading some posts and yours hit me and touched me greatly. <BR>As most know,I have been almost divorced 1 1/2 yrs, sep for three. <BR>After my divorce, I met a wonderful guy, actually I knew him for about 13 yrs, but on a friend level. <BR>After a few "dates" with others, he and I have been exclusive. <BR>I, too have gone through many feelings about this, while the relationship has moved along well, I am ever so cautious. And I should be, as we all should be. We need to take our time, feel right about ourselves, do some healing and soul seeking before we move into another relationship. <BR>My fiend is in a different place than I, he has been divored about 4 years now and is ready for a commitment, ie. marriage.<P>I feel strongly about this man, but I am not there yet. And, that is ok!!! I have been honest with him, I feel I can talk to him about this, and he is understanding. I feel no need to "date" anyone else. I have made adecision to open myself up to what can <P>If you feel good about this person, Tom, you should proceed with the relationship. Be honest about where you are at, but enjoy this wonderful happiness in your life. Isn't is great that we can, despite all we have been through to know life goes on, and we can love again??? She nay not be "the one", as they say, but someone you can learn and grow with and that may be just what you need at this time. <BR>

Sounds like a hopeful start, Tom! I agree that you should let the relationship evolve on its own. Only kill it off if you uncover a poison, or inoperable cancer. There is always someone out there better for you, more compatible etc. but then you don't get to grow together if you just keep trading up. According to my book, if you have met at least 50 women in your life, and dated at least ten of them, then you are minimally qualified to choose your life partner.<P>Did you run a checklist on the big five non-POJA-able incompatibilities? (E/I, IQ, values, energy, religion)<P>As for seasickness, I fought that for decades. Hurled only once or twice but sure felt green a lot. <P>But when I really wanted to be on the water I found several remedies that worked wonderfully, and I am very picky about drugs. After my 5 week research expedition through 7 typhoons I never felt seasick again. By the second day out on that trip I was fine, but did get sick once later, in one of the storms.<P>If she wants to be out there, she'll find a way if you are supportive. So maybe it is a fair test. <P>Good luck this summer!

I decided to edit out my previous comments.<P>Sue seems to enjoy poking fun at me. Then she has the nerve to have pretend pity for me. You haven't seen me bringing up your name in my threads, have you? And you won't, because even though you and I don't agree, I respect that you have your own life to live. So go ahead and make fun of me. Just don't try and make me believe you care one iota about my happiness. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited May 20, 2001).]

Boy, am I glad she won't be coming back here...so sad to see someone who is so obviously hurting, and wants to lash out to soothe her pain. And uncomfortable for me to be open when I am personally attacked. <BR> I hope she finds happiness in her life...<BR>Wifty, <BR>I think that both of you should try to be as well versed in MB principles as you can. As we grow and move on in our lives, we certainly don't want to replay those mistakes we made in our marriages in another relationship. For me, counseling and a marrriage class at our church helped me to see areas where I was weak and unforgiving in my marriage. <P>I have learned that I do not always have to be right, that I can relenquish responsibility to another when I am comfortable. And I was really good at witholding affection when I felt "put upon". I have learned that when I feel that way, I need to approach the other person and in a non threatening way, tell them how I feel. I tended to "bottle" that up inside of me until I hit the wall, then explode about it. I have worked through a great deal of this, and am still working on it. <P>I think, if the person you are seeing now is divorced, be open with each other about thoses weaknesses you had in your marriage and how to overcome them. I think people who have been through a serious relationship breakup can be a good sounding board to open up and discuss thoses issues. <P><BR> <P>------------------<BR>Susan