I have noticed we have some female betrayers in this forum. Maya.. I especially love all your feed back and insight. I still have yet to hear from any females who moved out, separated and then came back home. My wife is presently in a case just like the one in Surviving Affair book. She is in intensely emotional affair. She has moved out (over 2 wks ago) just to make her affair more convenient. We are joint parenting our child. But after my session with Dr Chalmers, I know I am faced with the toughest type of comeback from an affair. She said the affair could take 6-12 months, then withdrawal, and maybe marital recovery if she <BR>decides to choose that. From alot of the postings, I see many women who had affairs still struggle after withdrawals and their husbands have not been as willing to work on things. I for one am very willing, but who knows 6-12 months from now. Is there anything right now (10 wk affair, full passion right now) that I can do? I am doing plan A, no lovebusting, but hard to even love since I don't see her much or talk much. She is very normal in her day to day behavior and talking, but I know emotionally in either relationship she is probably very conflicted and mixed up feelings. She has alot of guilt, I know, but she still will not let go of the OM. I know it's all about time and I can't control her actions. But, I am still trying to figure out what else I could do or what live events could impact her fantasy right now. She obviously wants to see this affair thru, and she I am sure believes OM is her soulmate. For the women, is that mindset correct in the middle of the affair and what if anything conflicted you ladies? Knowing your husband was patiently waiting and loving you from home, was that good or bad or did you feel sorry for him? Any feedback appreciated. Rutger I hope some of these replies can help you too.

I didn't have any success, I received the divorce papers last week, and tonite she wrote me a letter which pretty much showed me we are done.<BR>As you said, it takes time. I feel we rushed things too fast. Don't ask her to leave as I did as it will drive her in arms of om and that will take you even longer to win her over.<BR>Its hard to take what they say but in my case I know believe all that about not loving me anymore. Thru counseling I learned that sometimes the spouse just wants out of the marriage and once they have a legitimate reason they take it. That doesn't mean that she was looking for an affair but once it happened they us it as an escape vehicle. I belive thats what happened in my case.<BR>Did your wife go to counseling too?<BR>Is om married and does his spouse know ? In an old posting someone posted that telling op spouse short circuited that affair.<BR>My w om keep out spending me by putting her up during plan b and keeps buying her stuff. Meanwhile silly old me was saving for kids college and out retirement all these years.<BR>I guess they will have the money from the divorce to retire on.

RWD, Sad to hear about the divorce. I have read some of your posts in the pasts, and I know its tough accepting others actions and decisions. My wife is already moved out (unfortunately, I did not try to keep her at home, i was naive about sorting things out). How long has your wife been living with OM? I would have thought that would make or break it. Does she have any relationship with the children? Sounds like she may still be making decisions based on feelings/emotions and her affair has not cooled off yet? Don't forget women can not truly love two men at one time. If she says she does not 'romantic' love you its because she has moved it to the OM, and he has met those needs. But how long can he really keep that up once reality settles into their relationship. I just started reading AFTER THE AFFAIR, by Susan A Spring. Its very interesting perspective from all angles and talks about what your wife has felt and may be feeling. I think being served with divorce papers, still takes time to process them and my lawyer says that if you give it more time (by stalling, telling her not what you want) she can still rethink it.<BR>My wife has gone to about 4/5 sessions of individual counseling, but I think her counselor basically validated her feelings and told her to act on what she felt was the right thing. In my opinion it was wrong advise based on the mental state of someone in an affair. I had the same counselor for 3 sessions, but now I want to go back to ask her some questions based on what I now know. <p>[This message has been edited by izzy (edited September 02, 1999).]

Izzy,<P>Let me just say that I understand that life sucks right now. My W had started an emotional affair last October which very quickly became physical. I hate to tell you this if you don't already know, but she is almost definitely sleeping with him.<P>In the case of my wife, the full blown thing lasted a couple of months and was ended when it became apparent OM wasn't leaving wife. Unfortunately, the tale didn't end there. It has been nine months since then and she still is in touch with OM although we have made a lot of progress in reconciling our marriage.<P>If I had it to do over again, here would be my advice to you: Don't let her walk all over you! Plan A doesn't mean being a doormat. I should have taken a firmer stance for myself during that time. Take care of yourself physically and emotionally. Let her know you love her but you will go on with life if she chooses this path. Continue to be a good dad. That is probably your best chance for winning her back right now and is the easiest point for interacting with her.<P>Don't let her heap guilt on you. It took two to get to this place but you aren't responsible for her deciding to have an affair. Admit what you have done wrong but don't agree that she is justified in any way for having the affair.<P>If you are a Christian, PRAY, PRAY, PRAY. Ask God to judge the relationship and put hostility between the two of them. Ask God to turn her heart towards home. Ask God to work in your life to make you the best husband and father you can be.<P>I can't emphasize enough the importance of taking care of yourself. You probably feel horrible right now. I could barely get out of bed each day when I was in your shoes. Don't give her the power to ruin your life. Show her that you are a great guy and you are improving your life (either for your relationship with her or another woman should she decide to divorce you). If your wife doesn't sense that you respect yourself, she will never respect you. Make sure she knows you won't wait forever. I can tell you that even when my wife was in her full blown affair, she hated the thought of me being with another woman (not that I did that but I let her know I would move on at some point).<P>I hope I have been of some help. God Bless,<P>Struggling<BR>

Hi izzy, <P>I have been in your shoes and I know what you are feeling. <P>My marriage of 17 years started crumbling about a year ago. through neglect on my part, my W found attention, comfort, and other from another man. Last December, my life officially crashed in on me when my wife told me so many hurtful things that I became numb. Probably the same things your wife told you. In Feb 99, my greatest fear was realized when I discovered she was involved with another man. Her affgair continued for another 4 months reaching its zenith in June. That month was my darkest time - ever. I felt everything slipping away; my wife, my family, everything. I felt so alone. What had I done to this woman I called my W?<P>I confronted her with everything. She stopped the affair. The OM found out I knew and feared the colapse of his own marriage so he stopped contact. She is in withdrawal and we are doing very well right now. Enough about me, let's get on to your issues.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I see many women who had affairs still struggle after withdrawals and their husbands have not been as willing to work on things. I for one am very willing,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Excellent. All situations are different, but having a willing attitude to change to a necessity for rebuilding. This is going to be the hardest thing you will ever have to do, and the benefit will be the sweetest reward you can imagine - a more loving marriage than you ever had before.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is there anything right now (10 wk affair, full passion right now) that I can do? I am doing plan A, no lovebusting, but hard to even love since I don't see her much or talk much.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It is tough when she is not in your home. My W was in full passion with OM and still at home, so I could give Plan A to my best ability. Your goal is to get her back in the house. Maybe living in a separate room would be an option. Keep up with your Plan A. You're competing to win her back. You have history on your side. Soon, the OM's faults will show up. Right now he is probably flawless in her eyes. But, it will end. What do you know about OM? Is he married? Keep giving in any way you can. Show her you are committed to your marriage and resolving the issues. Do you know your part in this? My personality and behaviors are totally different than they were a year ago. Would she be willing to go out on dates with you?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But, I am still trying to figure out what else I could do or what live events could impact her fantasy right now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If the om os married, contact his wife. Surprise your wife like never before. Take her out to someplace that's new. If she won't go out with just you, suggest a family thing. Soon, she will realize the impact that this is having on your child and that will help bring her out of fantasyland.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am sure believes OM is her soulmate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is a cop out on her part. They all use this stuff to justify their behavior. You can be her soulmate.<P>Hang in there izzy. It sounds like you are doing the best you can right now. Keep trying, keep giving, and keep loving her. Hopefully, she will someday thank you for not giving up on her.<P>SHA<P>

Just bringing this back to the top. Any more stuff on this would help myself and Izzy out. My W also moved out and it seems most of the success stories involve the Female Betrayer not moving out. What's up with that??? As a betrayer is it easier to see that you want to come back ( emotionally ) when your already in the house....?<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

I guess I'm the longest running soap opera here. My wife's been gone since 17 Feb with absolutely no signs of returning, but she hasn't filed either. She did say she would eventually, but I didn't press the issue. She came back to town for a week at the end of May. That's it. I have talked to her only once for 2 minutes since 30 July.<P>There is not much you can do at this point. Just make sure you don't LoveBust! Take care of yourself, get sleep, don't drink, anti-deps if you need them (don't be "tough") and HANG ON!<P><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

struggling and sir, thanx for you feedback. The OM is single, so the married man thing won't fly. She actually told me she did not have interc..(everything else though) with OM before she was moving out. I don't believe that now, I think she maybe was trying not to hurt me anymore (or her feel less guilty). I knew she would sleep with him though once she was out of the house. So either way they have. Dr Harley says its natural when their needs are being met. I am doing Plan A, and actually a hybrid of plan B, cuz I am not contacting her just to do it. I usually have a reason to do with child or something in life. I am really trying to show her I am doing fine and moving on with life. I have sent her a card and given her a book telling her I am changing and will wait to be given another chance to rebuild marriage. She is comfortable having me as a friend, father for our daughter, and basically meeting her financial need (child support). But not sure if I could convince her to move back home in any way, even separate rooms. She is skyhigh into affair right now. We are doing the family thing (once so far), but dates are not in the near future, she feels uncomfortable she says (guilt, maybe feels like betraying lover?). I am doing plan A, as best as I can and giving it time. But I am still not hearing any success stories of women who have moved out. Rutger, Chris and I are in the same boat and we may never dock with our wives, but we won't give up yet.

Hey guys, <P>My wife specifically told me that if we didn't have kids, she would have left. So, I am extremely thankful for them. Having her here enabled me to show her that I could change and cherish her as I always should have. <P>How a woman can walk out on her kids is a mystery to me. I feel for you guys. My wife has always been an exceptional mom to our kids which is a big love deposit to me. Nine months ago, the only redeeming quality I had in my wife's eyes was that she considered me a great dad. <P>If there is any way to get your wife home, do it. Easy to say, I know. <P>Be there when she's ready. Hang in there guys!!!<P>SHA

Izzy,<P>My wife didn't move out but she basically made it so hard on me that I moved out. We aren't out of the woods yet but we are much closer to full reconciliation than I ever thought.<P>It hurts so bad when they are so sky high and happy but remember it is based on a lie and it will come crashing down. Unfortunately, it may come down after it is too late and you have moved on with life. I know that I thought my wife would NEVER snap out of this. She was HEAD OVER HEELS like I've never seen. OM is perfect, OM is great father, OM walks on water... Of course, OM is just a man and a slimy one at that. As hard as it is, try to keep it together each day and know the end was written into this relationship the day it started. The end will come about in a time and way that you never could imagine. Just stay the course. I feel so horrible for you. Just remembering that phase makes me want to break down and cry.<P>God bless,<BR>Struggling<BR>

thanks again guys, I am keeping the hope that she will crash in that OM relationship and want to reconcile. Taking it one day at a time.

moving to the top, still would like to hear from female betrayers, please ...

Izzy, Rutger, Chris ,and all others:<P>My case too is one of neglect on my part. I had sunk so far into self-depression, unhappiness and self-pity that my W no longer recognized me as the man she'd married. Using this as an excuse, she began talking to a co-worker. After realizing that the growing feelings were mutual, and had been for some time, the emotional part grew until it culminated in a physical encounter.<P>I happened to find out by overhearing a conversation between them three days later. Upon confronting W, she admitted to everything, including who OM was. (who I knew and joked with regularly) To say I was blown out of the water is an understatement. I realized that I had to work quickly and hard if I wanted to save my marriage. In some small way I am glad that things worked out as they did, since W has told me that had I not changed regardless of <him> she would have asked me to leave.<P>I have spent the last three months doing everything in my power to be a better F/H. More patience, understanding,andwillingness to listen have been my strong points. Realizing these goals have bee nextremely tough after years of neglect on out marriage.<P>OM is married. I struggled with calling his W or not. Point became irrelevant when she found out about affair the following week. I'm not sure what would have happened if she'd not found out as well. She and I had a long talk and discovered that things weren't sitting right between all involved. Also discovered that H was lying to her even after discovery and hiding continued contact with my W. She delivered ultimatum of leaving with their kids if he contacted her again.<P>In my experience, having the 4th member know was a blessing! It gave me somebody to help out on a different front.<P>To date, it's been three months to the day since discovery. W has not moved out although it was close at first. I too think that the fact we have kids kept her here, at least until she could realize I truly have changed and want our marriage to work. I was told that I simply wasn't meeting my family responsibilities and was too self involved. Upon reflection, I discovered she was correct for the most part. <P>My advice to those betrayed is this:<P>1. Pay attention to the betrayer, but also give space. This is my biggest problem. I always want to be in close personal contact with W now, and her complaint is that she has no space. I think it's justified given what's happened, but I work on that for her sake.<P>2. Don't let them move out if you can at all help it. I think had we done that, my marriage would have been over.<P>3. Don't bring subject up on a continual basis. You will have things to talk about concerning this, but don't make it the sole topic of conversation. You will not be able to move on and build new relationship until you let the focus of your life move on. It took me over two months to learn this.<P>I hope that this helps...sorry that it got so long. Guess I had some stuff to vent after all.

izzy,<BR>I can relate to where you are right now. The first affair started about 6 years ago now. I am not sure when she made the first contact on the phone. She initially asked me if she could call the guy. He was an old flame that never really went any where. I said okay until I over heard them talking one day. She had this tone in her voice, the in love school girl tone, that I questioned after she got off the phone. She said what tone. She even ahd the nerve to ask him. He confirmed what I told her. He knew what the hell he was doing. He had cheated on his wife several thimes with ministers' wives.<P>She talked to him for about 6 months on and off because he would upset her. They eventaully planned to get together while she was home on vacation. I had just changed jobs when she decided to take the trip without me with our boys. They were 6 and 4 at the time so they weren't much help when she came back from the trip. I know that she slept with him every night for two weeks straight. I sent letters anonymously through prodigy. I typed them and prodigy mailed them so he didn't know that they were from me until he opened the letter. I think I sent two which contained all the scripture pertaining to adultery. He had enough nerve to call and threaten me and brag about what he had done. She was to stupid to see that she was just another conquest that he had conquered.<P>When she came home, she was surprised that I didn't want a divorce. She started another affair while she was still having an affair with him when she came home. <P>As best I can tell she has had eight separate affiars. Seven were definitely physical and emotional. The last I am not sure if it has gone physical. Although today because of a reaction to addresses that I had by my keyboard, I think it too may have gone physical at least once. Thelast guy is married as well.<P>As struggling said, if you are a Christian, pray hard and don't love bust. Meet as many of her needs as you can possibly muster. God will take care of the rest.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Trying to open this up again. Any move-out W that CAME BACK to work out marriage PLEASE respond!! No W move-out betrayer ever did to this post. THANKS<P>------------------<BR>desperate<P>

OK, so if anyone has read my W's post from today, you know that we are still having to struggle through some things. . .<P>My W left me for over 6 months. While our situation is different than any other I have read about here, we did not even begin to make any real progress until after we were back together again.<P>Even then it took about 9 months before everything was out in the open, and we began to truly work on rebuilding our marriage.<P>In my opinion, the only way to really work on the marriage is by having both partners together in the same home. While seperated, I think all we can do as the betrayed, is take care of ourselves and our children if we have them. Avoid lovebusting as much as possible, and pray.<P>I hope this helps somehow.<P>God Bless

My w has not move home as of yet. She indicated it would not be till after the holidays. She also blames me saying I don't want her back.<P>That is somewhat true. I not sure I want to her to come back if she isn't coming back for me. All she will commit to is coming back for the kids, staying in guest room and to help around the house. I can HIRE somone to do that. Also since she's on the antideps she is tired all the tiem and always taking naps and that would drive me crazy her laying around all day..<P>On the other hand I don't knwo what she is up to in her apart. Is she dating during the weekdays ? She has admiited that she is still speaking to om at work. That was depressing. She also said she has a lot of men friends at work so that scares me too. Her is an attractive woman living on her own, with no responsiblities as I have the kids scares the hell out of me.<P>But if she isn't sure she loves me and doesn't know what she wants why should she move home and then turn around and move again. Most of the counselors/ministers have said she shouldn't move home except for me. Any other reason is purely selfish.

PLEASE HELP, <P>I don't know why some of the betraying wives who have left and returned are not posting. They are out there. <P>There are some like Facing Choices, Farmer's Wife, and K's wife who have had children from the OM and returned to their husbands. There are success stories here. I suggest you research older posts in this forum on the topic and/or the user names I listed above. <P>Best Wishes,<P>SHA

I don't think we have any females here who left. Neither K's wife or Facing Choices left. Don't remember if farmers wife did, but she hasn't been around in quite a while.<P>I don't even know where my Wife is.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

I was the betrayer, but I did not move out I hope this helps anyway. She needs to stop seeing the OM NOW!!!! And you both need to go to counseling. It did take two of you to get to this point I agree, so both of you need to figure out what got you here and talk to someone who can help put it in perspective. She also needs to read these sights. Although I do not see my OM now sometimes the temptation is very strong so I come here and read and realize that the withdrawal and the soulmate are very normal and very ridiculous. It is hard, but it is possible, but she has to understand that it WILL NOT WORK between her and OM. The odds are against them and that it is a fantasy that when real life settles in all the problems and new ones are there. She needs to fully understand this. It is hard, but not impossible. My husband told me if I ever saw him again that was it. It worked for me. Good Luck and I am sorry.