We are teetering on the edge of divorce. My H is using the 'excuse' of not wanting to end his A, because he doesn't "desire" me. And, of course, sex is a biggie with him. He tells me he loves me and, even though his behavior has been extremely disrespectful & hurtful, I do believe him. But, I also can't help but wonder if he's pulling my leg. <P>I feel that the main reason he has this problem around me is because he has had some serious problems with landing a job that pays well. I have been the primary breadwinner for several years now. Even, the first therapist I saw picked up on this and the first words out of his mouth were, "your husband probably feels emasculated". I have never, never put my husband down about this, although I did 'encourage' him to go out and look for a job when he had finally given up. The more I pushed, with subsequent rejection, the worse he felt.<P>My H is very frustrated about this & we've talked about it endlessly. He cannot understand it himself because he says he finds me attractive and we were pretty good together at one time. I am far from aggressive, but I have had to pick up the slack at home when my H slowly sunk into depression. It seems the more capable I've become, the worse his self esteem got.<P>I guess this is a classic example of a Harley need. My H needs to feel like he's the provider or at least pulling his weight. I knew this and that's why I pushed him to get back into the workforce. I feel like I'm at my whits end here.<P>Has anyone else out there run up against this and how did you deal with it? I know this is a "male" thing, but guys, can you explain this to me?? I know the male ego is fragile, but now I'm wondering if my H even HAS an ego??? <P>

Had a great post...lost it. Anyway, the gist is this:<BR> We feel completed by sex, you feel completed in spite of it. To you, sex is a result of romance...to us it is an expression of love. You need to give him the sense that BECAUSE he is so manly, you want sex with him. Pickle jars, and non-sexual touches work somewhat, but 'accidental' sexual touches just KILL. OW will be gone. You need a program to follow. You need to think like a man, but I'd stop short of a labotomy if I were you. (Remember who is the breadwinner! ;o) )I think you are right on about how/why he feels. The OW thing is proving that to him, but that won't last, have faith. (Okay, he's an adulterer with no self-esteem, what did you expect?) You have the right heart, and with a little guidance, this will work fine. I have to go now, but if I haven't freaked you out, I think I could help you with this. I could at least tell you what worked (LONG AGO, I'M AFRAID) for me.

sidney,<P>I don't have prior experience with this situation, but a few questions did come to mind after reading your post. As a man, I could understand the theory of your therapist who suggested that your H feels emasculated by you. Even before you mentioned it, I sensed your H to be in a pit of depression. Besides “not desiring you” and being unemployed, do you know what has led your H to another woman? Maybe there isn’t more to it, but this OW is giving your H something which he is not receiving from the marriage, or at least he perceives it that way.<P>Men have EN’s as well as PN’s, just like women. Maybe it’s something as simple as his being with OW makes him “feel like a man” and I’m sure the OW is not pressuring him to get off his lazy duff and get a job. Not that you have put it to him in those words, but he probably feels it. Also, do you know if his affair is more emotional or is just purely physical?<P>The fact that he still finds you attractive is a good sign. Maybe it’s just the depression and the roles you are both in right now? This could be a really silly idea, but have you considered just taking a weekend off and traveling somewhere together, someplace new for both of you where you are both “out of your element” and just spend some time together away from your normal lives? Don’t go all out and spend tons of cash, but just get away, relax and have fun.<P>I’m just throwing out a bone here, but my gut tells me that if he was working and once again felt like he was supporting you, things would be better. I really think this is all about his pride and his ego. I’m sure he still has an ego, even if it is hard to find at times <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited May 14, 2001).]

Sidney,<P>Please, oh, please don't take this the wrong way...but are you sure there's not, deep down inside of you, a little resentment or judgement about your H's earning capacity? I only ask because of the last line of your post...<B>"I know the male ego is fragile, but now I'm wondering if my H even HAS an ego???"</B> To me, that sounds like you do think a little less of him???<P>I really think for some (maybe most?) men, being seen and respected as a good provider is important. What you might have seen as a helpful push in the righ direction to get your husband working again, may have come across as a negative commentary on his current unemployed or underemployed status. I bet he does have an ego and it's pretty trampled on right now due to employment issues, which can lead to depression, poor decision making, and yes, even Affairs sometimes...<P>In my next relationship I plan to make sure I am always the "soft place to fall" (to quote Dr. Phil McGraw)...and never the source of the problem. Is there a way you can communicate your willingness to be that soft place for your H?<P>Good luck and let us know how it goes...<P>Lisa

Of course he has an ego. His is just wounded. I took a huge amount of pride in being able to provide my wife a lifestyle far beyond anything she had ever imagined. It fed the provider part of my ego like you can't possibly believe... And it was addictive and destructive. I can see how it played a part in the demise of my marriage.... now. However, the greatest fear I ever had was not being able to provide for my family. It absolutely terrified me.<P>Interstingly, I got dumped for someone with quite a bit different lifestyle and earning potential.<P>Pushing him back into the workforce may be difficult. Ask him what he'd like to do. Obviously you are surviving on your income alone, so maybe going back to school is an option.<P>Men have always seen themselves as the providers. It's a huge part of who we are instinctively. I suspect now he feels a bit intimidated by your dominace in the provider roll. Is his affair with a "less successful" person?<P>The male ego is probably the most fragile thing on earth, and rebuilding his is going to be a daunting task. <P>Making him feel like man is a great idea. Subtlety is paramount. We have fragile egos, but we aren't dumb (well, not all of us any way )<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Wasn't your H under psychiatric care/medication for bi-polar? Or some other condition? If so then that probably has more to do with his inability to end the affair than anything else. I just see what he's saying as a way to somehow blame you for the continuance of the affair and justify what he's doing.

Sid -<P>Well I'm not a man, but I needed to reply with my "wet noodle lashes" and tell you to please STOP Sidney. And I have to say I am somewhat surprised that many posters here played into this by suggesting that you can do anything about your H's fragile ego while he continues his OW relationship. Let's remember folks that Sidney H has been in this "zone" for a LONG time. Sidney cannot and should not be feeling she just needs to find the right way to compete with OW at this point. No bargaining with him Sid - what happened to plan B?<P>I'm with Kalgrl - what you allude to may have had some part (even a large part) in the demise of your relationship, but it has nothing to do with his inability to end the affair. Please stop trying to find someway to relieve him of his responsibility here....the affair has to end and THEN you deal with this and any other real issues in the marriage. And in your H's case, I really do believe he has to deal with a LOT of real issues within himself even before he can begin to bring what he needs to bring to the marriage relationship.<P>I don't mean to be harsh sidney, but don't start down this path of analysis paralysis. Repeat after me OK: "I can't fix my H." His desire and motivation to change, improve his self-esteem, etc. has to come from him.<P>I know this is hard Sidney. Hang in there and stay the path. E-mail if you need support.<P>Starpony<P>

Obviously, I'm not aware of the full story. I agree that he has to pull himself up by his own bootstraps (so to speak), and I would never condone anyones affair for any reason.<P>I guess a little more info on the whole scenario would help a bit, but suffice it ot say that it takes two to fix a broken marriage. I know. I tried on my own and mine and failed.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Thank you, one and all! Exactly what I needed- some gentle doses of reality. A lot of you are unaware of the intense personal problems my H has, and the length of time this saga has been going on. Yes, my H is no doubt depressed and very likely has a personality disorder. But, the bottom line is that he will not do anything about it. He made a couple of feable attempts, but then never followed through. <P>I have to get it through my head, that I CAN'T FIX HIS PROBLEMS! StarPony, you crack me up!! Lay those wet noodles on, because sometimes I really need them. He keeps knocking me off balance. After not seeing or hearing from him for nearly two weeks, Sunday evening he shows up at the back door with his face pressed against the glass! Like a stray dog!! He doesn't even have the courtesy to call first which I have confronted him on. Then when I stupidly let him in, he tries to hug me and tell me he came to see me-- that he still loves me, and thinks about me all the time. I point out that his actions contradict everything he says, and that love, in my book is a verb.<P>Well, the divorce wheels are now in motion. This morning I told him that I want him to find somewhere else to live by the end of the week. My situation has gone from bad to worse and I see absolutely no glimmer of hope.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> In my next relationship I plan to make sure I am always the "soft place to fall" (to quote Dr. Phil McGraw)...and never the source of the problem. Is there a way you can communicate your willingness to be that soft place for your H? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>that is so true, you won't believe it!<P>I, like Nick, came from a conventional wisdom, where the H provided the income, and the W provided the family commitment. And I am in the same position as Nick, we also made an agreement that I was the one to make the big bucks, and when I asked X what she thought about money, she said she likes to spend it.<P>But when I had several big decisions to make, like a new job since my first company was going under, she told me, its your decision, she had no conversational input with me. When I was working for my last big promotion, in a company having lots of problems, and I was struggling because the top officers were struggling, she just told me I should just quit (hows that for conflict avoidance?) <P>when i asked her what i did for a living, she could only answer, "something with a computer." but yet i worked with her to create budgets and forecasts and policies when she was treasurer of a start up day care, and the head of the center was caught embezzling money. Nope, she did not know what i did for a living, and when i came home, she told me i couldn't talk about the women in the office, and they were the most interesting to her, since she couldn't understand the technical stuff I did with the men.<P>Did she ask me about my daily struggle at my job? nope. . .<BR>Was she proud that we paid off the van loan in two years instead of five? you bet! did she think she did that all by herself? yep!<P>Careers and providing family security can be a very big perceived responsibility for a H. and some of us have more fragile egos than others. And woman were traditionally the family support component to the equation, comforting the men when they didn't have a good day hunting or gathering food, or even working!<P>To come home to a critical W is very depressing, and a LB is criticism, and my wife explained to her therapist that she was a very critical person, and her therapist said, <B> absolutely, you have to separate </B>(???) just like my XMIL, who emasculated my EFIL, who my X adores and hates, for putting up with ridiculous crap from my XMIL. now, the therapist said that we had communication problems, (no [censored]!) i demostrated that and showed her in Psych 101 how her projection was putting me instantly on the defensive,<BR>but she refused to change, too much to change, too hard to admit imperfection.<P>now i am going off the thread topic, sorry.<P>just note that Lisa has it about right! and it does make a big difference.<P><BR>

Hi WIFTT,<P>Boy, can I relate to your situation! At first glance, it might appear we're on different sides of the fence, but we're really not. I think what this demonstrates is that a marriage must be a partnership, with both parties contributing and pitching in when necessary. It's never healthy for one person to have to carry the whole load for any length of time, whether they be husband or wife. There has to be a balance. Especially with job situations being so uncertain in today's workplace. The stress of being the sole support is incredible, so I know firsthand how you feel. <P>For awhile I was in a job where I was being exploited, expected to do the work of 3 people and frequently expected (not asked)to perform a job that was four levels higher, with no additional compensation. I was averaging a 50 hour workweek. I had numerous people pull me aside and say to me in so many words, "do you realize you're being screwed?" Sheesh, that REALLY helped!! Add to that, the more I tried to transfer out of the department, the more roadblocks they threw in my way. Of course, they weren't going to let go of their golden goose!! I needed my H to get off his duff and help me out with our financial responsibilities; to take some of the pressure off. I honestly didn't know how much longer I could take the abuse I was getting at work. Believe me, I tried in a zillion different ways to communicate this to my H. At one point, I asked him what he would do if I quit. His response was, "I'd buy you a bottle of champagne to celebrate." Here I was crying for help, and he was in lala land!!<P>I can also relate about the projection part. H has absolutely terrible feelings about his mother and he has projected them onto me. He even admits this, yet will not get help to deal with his childhood wounds.<P>So, my heart goes out to you, because I know how you feel.

I too have been there. My ex worked as a waiter and made an uneven income at best. He struggled with budgets and money, and his ego suffered. I am college educated and have a successful and at one time was working three jobs. He wanted to be a writer and that was important to him, but he wasn't contributing anything tangible to the marriage. He also was unreliable and had a drinking problem. He often said I emasculated him and didn't believe in him. (Yes, I recognize the irony in that statement.)<P>We often had discussions about the reversal of roles that we had in our household. I knew it was an issue for him.<BR>He left me when he became involved with an 18 year old. HE admits now, almost a year later, that she made him feel like a man ---by default, I think. I made him feel like a boy. She makes him feel like a man. No wonder he left me. But I can't make him feel like a man if he is not going to act like one. <P>Men have fragile egos, but they have to take care to protect them themselves. THat is why I think so many men are so macho. Over compensation. My ex was the classic passive aggressive type. There is a great book out called Living with the Passive Aggressive Man by Scott Wetzler. I REALLY recommend it. Your ex's inability to find a job might be a result of his passive aggression and insecurities. Read the book. It helped me tremendously.<P> good luck<P>

Thanks, GSD. I'll look into the book. PA definitely describes my H. Once in awhile he'll make a joke at my expense. I used to just take it. I called him on one recently and he got very angry and yelled, "it's just a joke!!!" He is the epitome of passivity and he's a bigtime conflict avoider. It's nearly impossible to talk to him about anything of substance as he dodges and hedges. Then, totally clams up. At this point, I have very little hope that our marriage is going to make it