Help!!<p>I been married to my second husband for just a year now. Neither one of us has any children. It seems all we do is argue all the time over my husband's drinking and use of marijuana. He of course, doesn't think he has a problem with either, but he never knows when to stop. When he is no where near beer or weed, he's the sweetest man I know. <p>I knew he drank and smoked pot occasionally before I married him and therefore, it should be O.K. and I have no reason to complain about it, so he says. I want to have children with a man that would be a good father, not an denying alcoholic.<p>I've gone to a therapists for counseling but it seems she just wanted to direct me only in the direction of dealing with co-dependancy. I don't know whether I should continue to seek counseling if he only continues to deny his alcohol and drug problem? Or should I leave this situation to better my life for myself and the children I want to have some day?<br>

hurt2much,<p>It would probably be helpful for you to continue to learn about co-dependency, either through continued counseling, or attending a group like al-anon or coda. You will learn that only your husband can decide to change himself, and that as you wait for him to change, or try to make him change, your resentment will fester within you until you become sicker than he is. Whether he decides to grow up or not, you have to take care of yourself. If you become angry and embittered, that is just as much your fault as it is his, and could create an environment were he is less likely to see his own problems, and therefore less likely to seek recovery. Believe it or not, you are lucky to be recognizing and questioning these red flags early on in your relationship. Many have lived in this kind of deteriorating environment for years before finally breaking out of their own denial and seeking help. <p>Check out www.alcoholismhelp.com for more insight.<p>

Y,<p>Thanks, but the question I keep asking myself is why should I seek help if he doesn't even realize he's got a problem. When I did go to counseling, I invited him to go but his response was, "I don't have a problem. You go if you want to." Needless to say, I didn't feel any better when I came home. Sometimes I think that the only thing that will open his eyes is me leaving.

hurt2much,<p>Believe me, I've been right where you are, and it is an awful place to be. You should go to counseling or get support for YOU, even if you leave you could eaily find yourself in a similar relationship again. There are also occurrances where once the co-dependent partner breaks out of her/his enabling patterns the alcoholic partner gradually wakes up. There are also cases where the alcoholic finally seeks recovery, and the codependent gets worse until he/she learns about his/her own self-destructive behaviors. The only person you can change is you... and here's another saying... if nothing changes, then nothing changes. Please seek help for yourself... it is the first step to learning and deciding what you need to do for you. Even if you just leave him now you'll have alot of emotional baggage to deal with... <p>I know you're here looking for answers... eventually you'll find that there's no magic formula for making everything OK, and that the greatest outcome will be what you will learn about YOU.<p>

I don't know whats going on now. When I came home from work yesterday, my husband was gone. He took everything from pictures on the wall, my wedding ring, the t.v., the recliner chair, and even shampoo and soap. I don't know what to think. He didn't leave me a note or any explaination. I felt as though something was weird after I had been calling and paging him all day without a return call. What do I do now? His parents haven't even heard from him.

Dear Hurt2Much,<p>I'm so sorry you're going through this. It is very likely you'll hear from him after he sobers up. He'll probably beg you to take him back, say all the right words, etc. You're only a year into this, so you'll probably want to believe everything he says, make some excuse for his behavior, tell yourself things will get better... I'm 13 years into this... sometimes it gets a little better for a little while... but then it slips back and gets worse... at least in my experience... but you'll still have that hope pushing you along reminding you of the sweet sober guy you haven't seen in a long time... you know he's in there and will come back to you as soon as ______ fill in the blank... his job gets better, hockey season is over, you get past the holidays, the baby gets older... and on and on and on....<p>Do yourself a favor and gets some counseling now. I'm not saying to give up on your marriage, just that you need to learn from the start that you don't have to tolerate unacceptable behavior... if you do now, and keep doing it, 13 years from now when you finally decide enough is enough, he'll blame you for changing, and that life was just fine until you decided to change.<br>

Y,<p>Thanks and you're probably right. I haven't and won't try to contact him until he is ready to call me. He's the one that left me without an explaination. Although, he had to have been sober while doing this and making this decision. I'm piecing together the events from the last couple of days and seem to think that he was planning this since our last argument. He closed the checking account and opened a new one without my name, he took my wedding ring claiming to have it cleaned and the diamond checked, etc. One of the hurtful things I told him was that I couldn't wait until his upcoming surgery (back surgery from on the joby injury) was over so that he could get the hell out of here. I said those words out of anger. I didn't want him to leave. I just wanted him to change and stop drinking. I think he took those words to heart and decided to leave. I'm lost and just want my husband back. I'll look into the counseling. Thanks again.

Dear Hurt2Much,<p>You didn't mention how long he's been drinking or how often, but after a while, even when they're sober, their thinking is not always rational. The other thing to understand is that people whose lives are affected by an alcoholic sometimes become sicker than the alcoholic themselves. I've said terrible terrible things that in my heart I didn't mean... when you hurt so much, sometimes you want to hurt back. That's no justification, it's just the way things turn out sometimes... you end up hating yourself just as much as you hate the alcoholic because you can't stand being so angry and hurting all the time, but you can't seem to find a way out... if only he'd stop drinking... what you'll learn is that you have no control at all over what he does, but you do have control over yourself and how you react to things and how you live your life.<p>I know this doesn't help much, and that things may seem hopeless right now.. you love him, you want him back, but once he's back the you know the bad stuff will start again, but you love him. The best thing you can do right now is take care of yourself. You'll be told that over and over again, and it may take a while to really make sense, but eventually you'll realize that's the only place to start. <p>Also, learn all you can about alcoholism and addictions... knowledge is power, and the more you understand, the better you will be able to decide how do deal with things.<p>I wish you the best.

"Y" is right. Even when an alcoholic is sober, they still think and act like an alcoholic and behave irrationally. My H has been an alcoholic for all of his adult life and is still in "on the bottle". We've been married for 15 years and except for about 6 years when he was sober, life with him has been a living hell. As soon as my children are grown, I'm gone. An alcoholic lives to drink, nothing else matters to them. Family just gets in the way of their drinking time. Your H will most likely be back, but don't expect anything to be different. Mine promised me the world (and also promised me he'd never drink again if I just would let him come home) if he could come back. During the time he was sober though, he still was manipulative and had the alcoholic personality. It only took one night of temptation by the beer bottle to get him back drinking. He now drinks more than he ever did before. Its only a matter of time until his health goes or he drinks himself into an early grave. Luckily I have a good job and don't need him financially. <p>Take care of yourself first. Yes, you love him and want him, but make sure you know in your heart you don't NEED him. Stand on your own two feet and take care of yourself first. And remember, his addiction is a disease, although a self inflicted disease. I have not found marriage counseling to be of much help in my situation in that my husband has always refused to go. In our situation its clear where the problem lies and its not with me. It does help to have communication with others who are in your situation for emotional support, as well as family members and friends who'll just be with you and help you get through this. Prayer will get you through also. Ask God to guide you and take away your pain. He will. Good luck to you, and I will remember you in my prayers too. Most of all, no matter what your H tells you, it is not your fault he drinks, etc. Alcoholics always try to lay the blame on someone (or something) else. <p>God Bless You.<br>

leah-s,<p>Thanks for your comments and advice. I am taking it day by day. I did however, speak to my H yesterday (he finallay returned a page from me). He was very angry as I cried on the phone and asked WHY he left the way he did, no note, phone call, conversation even to say, "by the way, I won't be here when you come home", nothing. He response was that I said one too many times that I wanted him to leave if he wasn't going to change. He blames me for changing. He says I used to be different but now I want to keep him like a "puppet on a string". He wants his wife to be more lenient. Which in his eyes, he wants me to let him do whatever the hell he wants. In his case that would mean he could drink himself into an oblivian at any given time and I shouldn't care. <p>I admit I have been questioning his actions more often. And, I get upset when he doesn't want to spend time doing fun things with me but rather sit around with the guys drinking. He thinks I'm over reacting. Nonetheless, our conversation ended when I told him that I needed him to help me with the mortgage payment that was past due. He said I don't have any money to give you, because I used $800 towards an apartment. Yes, I have a good job too and can make it financially without him but when bills are due NOW and he walks out like that without a worry in the world, yes, I'm hurting for money in addition to missing him.

Hurt2Much,<P>Please, please, please don't ask him to come back... you have been given a grand opportunity to let him hit bottom on his own. His chances for bottoming out are greater if you do your best to detach and tke care of yourself right now. I have heard the exact same things from my H. He will not be controlled... blah,blah, blah... but whose actually controlling who??<P>I know it's hard, but right now just try to let go. If you're spiritual, then pray. Find a support network for yourself, be it a counselor or al-anon or family or friends... don't sit home alone thinking about him too often... I know it's hard, it's so hard and it hurts so much more because none of it makes any sense. You should try to define some boundaries and conditions for the day he cries to you that he wants to come back. That day will be hard and will break your heart too... but you need to find the strength to know and believe that that is what is best for you both. Maybe he's hard headed and stubborn and that will never happen, but if it does you need to prepare yourself emotionally.<P>Don't mean to sound pushy or tell you what to do, I just know in my situation I passed up opportunities like you have now, and we just fell back into the same patterns, because I loved him so much and just wanted him back.<P>Please take care<P>

TO: hurt 2 much<BR>My husband realized he was an alcoholic and needed help about five years ago. I was amazed after all this time his personality was the same. We are now seperated because of abuse and irrational behavior.Even though there is no alcohol and drugs in our lives he has still managed to destroyed our marriage.<BR>Please stay seperated. There is no life with an alcoholic. Besides it can become very dangerous. I also was left suddenly. I came home from work as he was leaving. Rent due, utilities due, you name it. I got left with it all. He even manages to visit uninvited to borrow money which I never give him because I never have any. I have two children to support. He makes twice the money that I do and wants to borrow from me.HA HA<BR>I would like to some day make things work between my h and I but it will be hard to forgive him for all the hurt he's caused. Even during seperation I've had to deal with his anger and behavior.<BR>NO MORE FOR ME!<BR>I'm broke but very happy.

denise_1,<P>I wish your words of wisdom and the wisdom of everyone else would make the pain go away! At night especially, when he's supposed to be there when I fall asleep. The house seems so empty. I don't even want to be there and try to kill as much time before going home.<P>I'm curious though, who helped you get through it? family, priest, support group?

Hurt2Much,<P>Your name says it all. You have been hurt way too much, and its all because of alcohol. The others are right, don't ask him to come back, because he will just blame you for any and every thing that will or might go wrong, as an excuse to drink more. My husband also left while I was at work (this was about 10 years ago); just took his clothes and vehicle and disappeared. I had a good idea where he was - - with one of his "partying buddies". I was right about that. Anyway, to make a very long story short, he drank himself into oblivion every day and night, stuffed the white stuff up his nose until he nearly killed himself, lost his job, left the state to move back in with his mommy so he could live for free and DRINK, DRINK, DRINK. He lived in bars (slept in his car at night after they closed) got into barroom brawls, didn't bathe or change clothes for 2 days but kept right on drinking. After he left, I had made up my mind to never contact him (I didn't), filed for divorce, started seeing someone else, basically got my life together. All of this took place in about a 10 week time period. When H got the divorce papers, he really started to bottom out. He found out I had my life going good and it drove him nuts. I didn't know it at the time, but he had one of his friends keeping an eye on me and reporting in to him what I was doing. When it got back to him that I was doing great, was happy, and seeing someone else, he started the begging and crying to come back along with all the promises to never touch a drop of alcohol again. I told him over and over, "no, don't come back" and that I didn't want him to stop drinking to get back with me, but to stop drinking for himself. He quit drinking (he was sober for about 6 years). I made the big mistake of letting him come back (I felt that I had an obligation to him as we have children together and they were very young) because once an alcoholic, ALWAYS an alcoholic. I will say that during the time he didn't drink, he was good to us, loved me and caring; a good husband. But it only took one night of temptation by his so-called friends to get him back into drinking all the time. If only I could turn back time I would have NEVER, EVER let him come back. His addiction to alcohol has destroyed me. He just keeps getting worse, and is on that downward spiral to the bottom of the pit again. I've made up my mind to get him out of my life for good after the kids are all grown. . . . my son loves him with all his heart and my H adores our son. Daughter hates him. <P>So the moral of this story is, unless your H has a stronger sense of responsibility and a close, personal relationship with God, he won't make it even if he does quit drinking and come back. My H is not a Christian, and most likely never will be. And that is the key to a person overcoming alcoholism, they can't do it alone, they need God's help and guidance to get them through the day. Without God to help, there is no hope for an alcoholic. And you don't deserve any of what your husband has done to you. Please always remember it is NOT your fault, you did not drive him to drink, he made that choice all by himself. I'll continue to pray for you that God will take away your pain so you can cope. Please know you are not alone, and others have been through this too and understand how horrible it is for you right now. Good luck to you and be strong. You'll make it through this. <P>

Dear Hurt2Much:<P>I agree with all the answers you have been given. I have just broken off a 12 year relationship with my husband due to his alcoholism. He was never verbally or physically abusive, but I do consider his behavior emotionally abusive. He has been very bitter that we have not had children, even though I have told him for years I would not have children with an alcholic father. Because of this, I started pressuring him at the end of last summer to seek treatment. We went to marriage counseling, and the counselor encouraged the same. My husband went to 3 sessions and refused to go back. That was the beginning of the end. He ended up having an affair with a coworker 17 years his junior, and decided that he didn't want to be married after all. His reason was that I never wanted to have sex with him - I always told him I wouldn't have sex when he was drunk, which was every night. Funny how the alcoholic always makes the problem someone else's fault.<P>Although I am very sad right now, I feel I have been given a second chance for a happy life. I know that in Al-Anon they don't suggest offering advice like this, but take your chance and run. Good luck to you.

BaileyRae,<P>Thanks for your comments. Why doesn't Alinon advise victims to leave the situation? I don't understand how that could be. <P>Anyway, believe this or not, I just got off the phone with him. I admit I had paged him on Friday night when I was at my worst. I was lonely and at home alone. I'm not good company to be around right now and just as soon stay at home. He never called back. Not until this morning that is and I can tell in his voice that NOW he's missing me. The more time passes, I am beginning to convince myself that there is someone else. How could he NOT miss me to or even call to talk to me unless there was someone else with him to occupy his time. When I asked him he said no, there's no one else. But, when I asked him where he was, i.e., that apartment he had moved to? he didn't want to tell me. By that, I feel like he's got SOMETHING to hide. He knows where I live.

Hurt2Much:<P>I think Al-Anon doesn't advise to leave or to stay - they leave it up to you - unless the situation is abusive. In that case, they do suggest leaving. At least this is what I understand from the literature I've read and the people I've talked to.<P>I couldn't really say if your husband has anything to hide, but he sounds like he's behaving the same way my husband was, and he certainly DID have something to hide. Unfortunately, you may just have to give it some time and wait him out. Or, start a little detective work.<P>One thing to consider where alcoholism is concerned is that no matter how good your husband's intentions are, is that unless he gets treatment, those intentions probably won't last long. No matter how hard they try, it just doesn't last. <P>You should try to find a counselor who specializes in treatment of marriages and lives affected by alcoholism. Personally, I don't feel that every spounse/family member of an alcoholic is a codependent; that's not the only issue here. You should also read as much as you can and talk to as many people as possible who have dealt with alcoholism. This has been my greatest help - I now know that my H's drinking has nothing to do with me.<P>I know that someone else mentioned www.alcoholismhelp.com - I also highly recommend it. They have a forum similar to this for friends and family of alcoholics.<P>Good luck.

I found this site from an egroup of women with unsaved husbands, and after reading as much as possible here I feel I know what I shoud do, but I need reassurance from someone. (any?one) Most of the ladie's stories seem much worse than mine and their total obeject is to "win" their husbands over, but at this point I am just too tired and weary to want to do the same. I came from a very dysfunctional family and had a lot of baggage when I entered this marriage (my second, the first one lasted ten years (and three children) and this on is going on eighteen years). But I was "in love", even though he drank a lot and smoked pot some, as I came to learn later both were done in excess most of the time. I went to several alanon meetings and read everything I could find on co-dependency, but still took the blame for our incompatability. (I found out early in our marriage that I was his fifth wife and he had given up his parental rights on two children, so his baggage seemingly was more than mine) And you're right, I became sicker than him, to the point of having emotional breakdowns. He was in and out of the hospital at least three times a year, and the doctors could find nothing wrong, the last time while my h was in ICU I asked the doctor if it could be alcohol related. Yes...that was it, why didn't I say something sooner ? Well, when the Dr. released him the next day the diagnosis was "Alcoholism" and my h was terribly angry and set out to prove that I was "crazy" in a very aggressive way. Now that the whole world (especially his "Religious" parents and sister-the only relatives in this small town where he isolated us to) believe that I am and I realize that I was...if only because I stayed because I thought I could help. I tried to get a divorce three years ago, but I'm not a "fighter, I'm more of a flighter" and the community proprty laws had changed (in my favor, although I didn't know it at the time) and when he found this out he fought it. I backed off and I've withdrawn....but now I just want "to get out of it"......Please don't let this happen to you, it has truly been a life in hell.<P>------------------<BR>KoLoSo

double post removed<p>[This message has been edited by Alice (edited 03-20-99).]