First to Pragmatic: Yes, I realize men need sex. I don't have to re-read anything. The thing I was addressing was Machine's usage of the word affection, and yes, it does mean different things to different people, especially between men and women. Women also need sex, and there's nothing anyone can say that will convince me otherwise. Unfortunately, a lot of women let other things get in the way of realizing this need in themselves. Maybe I'm unusual, but I don't have too much trouble with other things getting in the way. Second, to Machine: Maybe I was confused, in your first post, you mentioned both affection and sex. When you mentioned it again in your second post, about only getting hugs and kisses in return, I was letting you know that yes, that IS affection. It's not sex, but it IS affection. Have you stopped to consider if something else is going on with your wife? Is she extremely stressed about something, or depressed over something? It may not have anything to do with your marriage, or it might. Maybe she's having a dip in the old hormones...that can cause a significant dip in the sex drive, especially in women. HOw old is your wife? If she's menopausal, that could explain a lot of things right there. You need to sit her down and talk this through. If you can't communicate about it, then nothing will ever get resolved.

To Machine: Oops, I meant you mentioned affection and sex in the second post, the first post was only sex. I had originally responded to your second post. Sorry for the confusion. <BR>Also, I don't know who mentioned it now, but I don't totally agree that women take 10 times longer to get aroused than men do. Maybe I'm the exception, but I know for myself it doesn't take me that long at all! Unless I'm dead tired, it might take a bit longer then. But in general, it doesn't. Of course, I don't have kids...maybe that has something to do with it, at least in some cases. One thing that I think helps me is I keep my pump primed. LOL!! Now, what I mean by that is, I seem to almost always be thinking sexually, in some form or another. So maybe that's why I'm relatively quick to become aroused.

to tommywife<BR>She's 29 on the 17th. We have talked about it and yes lately she's been stressed. I, by the way, understood what you were trying to say about sex and affection. <BR> She's been like this ever since we had our first child, 4 yrs ago. Its not always terrible but there are very very long dry spells and sex initiated by her is few and far between. So that rules out menopause. She used many things as excuses in the past such as a problem with her uterus (im not sure on the spelling of that), it apparently was too low after the baby and it hurt to have intercourse. Ok that was ok till the doctor fixed that and there was no pain. After that it was not enough time for sex. I didnt do enough to help out at home. Ok thats been solved now what is it. Well stress as i mentioned earlier. It is stressful lately but once that is over Im sure it'll be something else. I dont want to sound uncaring cause in each of those situations i took the initiative to fix all of those problems. I had some hard times in the begining with my own problems that may have affected her sex drive. I was very possesive and jelous ( I hate to admit it)due to women in the past cheating on me. It made me paranoid and I tried to catch it before it made me feel like a fool again. Know what i mean. I wanted to make sure I wasnt as stupid as i was before, so I'd look for signs. And so here i am spilling my guts for everyone to see...oh well who cares. The point is that it may have affected her but i got over it almost completely and she stuck by me through it all. And I've been sticking by her for 4 years now, 4 yrs of little to no interest in sex on her part. I cant hold off any longer i got over it and other problems I had, now she must get over it or we wont be able to move on progressively. <BR>Thanks! May you all find true happiness!<P>

Machine and Doug,<P>Thanks for mercy..... <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> These posts are quite amusing <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>after I reread it, did seem like I was taking pleasure in your pain. And I do need to choose my words more carefully before I type them down~~~ <BR>I pray you find the answers machine.... be happy~~~

thanks JONQUIL I appreciate it .....I think thats it for me here. Whatever does happen between us (me and my wife) it is and will be a learning experience for me. Lifes full of things to learn and usually after you make mistakes. Thanks again...bye all!

Machine, just one more question for you. You say your wife has been stressed out a lot, and you've tried to help out around the house and with the children so she'll be less stressed, and that's a great start. But I have to ask you this: Do you sit down and listen to her talk about what stresses her out or whatever? I don't mean the kind of listening that you do when she talks, and you problem solve it for her, either. I mean, just plain LISTEN. Without offering to solve it, or fix it, or give advice to HER on how to fix it. Just LISTEN, and commiserate with her. Sometimes, a woman just needs to be LISTENED to. It can be frustrating for a woman to talk to a man about what's going on with her or in her life and the man is off and rolling with advice, or setting out to handle it himself, or worse yet, telling her she "shouldn't feel that way". That can cause resentment in some women, because it makes them feel invalidated, that they have no right to feel this way. A woman wants to feel respected and important, too, just like a man. Have you tried to genuinely do this? If not, try it. It might take a while, but she will probably start to respond to YOUR needs better once more of her "being listened to and understood" needs are being met. That's one thing my hubby does that's great. We basically speak the same language, and he listens to me without trying to fix it. He can commiserate with me. Example, if I come home from work fit to be tied because of my idiot boss, he listens, says "Geez, what a *****! She must be crazy" or whatever, but he never tells me what I should do to fix it, or tell me to just quit, or anything like that. It's like two buddies talking and sharing about what crappy days we've had and why. LOL!!! So, I feel totally validated by him doing that. I know I can talk to him if I'm upset if I choose, and not worry that he'll make me feel unimportant or that my feelings aren't important. Of course, according to him, I need to talk to him more than I do. (guess that's my male side, wanna handle it all myself ) But I have NOOOO trouble being responsive...maybe that's why, because he meets that need.

good point tommywife.......thanks all