My heart is breaking. I still miss him even though he's still under our roof. I go & smell his pillow when he's already left for work or gone out. I am so so empty right now. I dont want to do anything except sleep & hope this was all a bad dream.<P><BR>Started fighting with me again. Why wont I let him go. Why do I insist on hanging around. I keep saying I love him & he keeps saying whats done is done & its over. I say people change & I'm not asking him to but that I have changed. That I'm working on it. That I have a different understanding of conflict now. But he wont accept any attempt at talking. Just that its over & mentioning "the papers". Finally I said "What papers?" & he said the papers he is going to bring home for me to sign. He's the one I want to be close to, to be comforted by, to offer comfort to. He said but he's not there to comfort me. I said that no matter what, I won't be finding anyone else & will still be around if he changes his mind.<P>From the books I'm reading I think his thought process is way deep in poop. He reacts angrily, emotionally & rehashes this same thought in his mind over & over until he believes it (like I dont love him, only for the house/comfort, what a B@#*# I am etc). I've learned you have to look past this to the real rational meaning. But he cant do this. I think extreme stress has pushed him into a manic depression. Now he can't process his own thoughts realistically & tells himself its over & useless to continue & that I dont love him & all we do is fight & hes wasted his life & would be better off without me etc. <P>I am so upset. I cant think or feel. Im almost numb. I feel so miserable. I just want to crawl into a hole. I feel like crying 24hrs. I feel like hes bluffing to test me, but his negative thoughts have taken control & I cant convince him otherwise no matter what I try to say. We are under the same roof but do everything seperately.<P> How can I meed his needs if He is just this huge wall I cant get through. I am so lonely. I yearn for affection from my H. I would never seek it elsewhere. I am so upset. He wont let me talk to him at all. <P>How can I meet his needs if he wont let me. I still want this marriage to work. If he would only let me in & be willing to give it a chance we could work this out. He will NOT go to any couselor or talk to anyone about this in an appropriate way. <P>What do I do??? I am not ready to give up, but I am hurting very bad inside. If I try to get near him, it will just push him to run in the opposite direction. People say just to leave him alone, not to answer him at all when he starts ranting & let him do his own thing completely. But he is keeping me so apart from him on purpose, its killing me. I am ready to erase the past few months as some sort of bad nightmare if he would just give me 1/2 an inch to work with!! I cant cope with the pain & lonliness anymore & he is still under my roof right now. How can I work to improve anything? What do I do? Go about my own business?<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 30, 2001).]

Need to think on your post a bit before I reply.<P>I can see you are really hurting. I wanted you to know that I have read your post and am thinking of you.<P>It will be awhile before I get back, but I did want to say I think you should go visit relatives. You are too close to the situation right now and emotions are getting the better of you and your H too. H has indicated that he feels you are pushing him to stay making him feel trapped (whether it is true or not). Some distance may do the both of you some good right now....just my Humble Opinion. I'm sure other will give you some great advice as well.<P>Hang in there. <P>Have you considered anti-depressants?

Hi Clg,<P>Oh my dear you are in a lot of frustration and pain. Your H is very confused and appears to be deep in the fog. I would like to share with you some help items that you can use to help you keep your sanity. One of the guys on the GQII board sent us some of his 'cheat sheets'. Here is that thread. <P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/009007.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/009007.html</A> <P>What you are going through is the rollercoaster ride effect. It is painful and long. Worse than PMS with mood swings and when it happens to a man, it can be even worse.<BR>They are doing these things and probably don't know why they are not in control of themselves. Especially if they are with a very controlling OW, it can become worse. <P>Here is a bit of hope. This waffling, mood swing affect is actually a sign that he is not really sure what he wants. For right now and for your santity, let him say what he wants to say, strengthen yourself enough to be able to hear the words and NOT let it hit you so hard. He says sell the house, let him try. He says he wants an apt, let him try. <P>Sometimes the calculator in their brain is broke, the batteries are dead and they don't reason well. Don't try to stop him too much, he will only fight you and make you more miserable. I had to let H go and fall flat on his face. H jeporadized he credit almost had his family evicted, etc. See H would have let me carry him and his bills plus our family expenses for as long as I would let him. On top of that he kept threatening not to give me money to pay for HIS bills and divorce me. <P>His threats were sooo stupid, I finally agreed and said, ok go ahead. I even encouraged him to 'hurry up' with the D. Hm...... In my case they were threats. I had to be prepared for him making them real. I did the D walk through the courthouse and I did my research. I also prepared myself financially and carefully looked at all my options should any of those threats come true. At the same time since I could no longer afford a counselor. I read the books recommended and came here for support. <P>In my case, H finally came around (he is still working on it - 3 weeks). The concept of knowing his family could be evicted if he continued and OW becoming more of a pest, helped him see reality. He is now home and trying to be more than a boarder (working on that piece - low self esteem and all). So the fun never stops even when they come home, the picture just changes a bit. <P>Please take care and keep us posted. <P>L.<BR>

x<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Cantletgo,<P>Well for your own sake you will need to learn to let him go. I don't mean let him go to D him but to let go of this person he has become. As hard as it is to think about and/or do the best thing you can do is move on with your life. Ignoring H and his rude behavior as much as possible. The more you cling and allow yourself to be emotionally vulnerable to him the more he will continue to hurt you.<P>As far as meeting his needs. Girl, you can't right now he won't let you and he doesn't want you to. Work on yourself to make him the person he wants to be with. Don't worry so much about meeting his emotional needs right now that can come later when he is ready.<P>I know that taking the steps towards separation like seperate accounts, your own credit card etc seem like you are conceeding to the D but I think what you will find is that it makes you feel a bit more in control. Right now you are letting your H control you because you so desperatly want him. He sees this as manipulative and controlling. give him as much space as possible. You need to back off so he can fall to the bottom on his own. Then and only then can the recovery process begin.<P>Stay focused on today. Don't worry about what if and what might have beens. You can't do anything about them and they take a lot of energy. Go visit your relatives, get away, regroup, refocus, do something nice for yourself. Don't worry that OW will move in on him while you are gone. Let her. Read Orchids posts. She did a good job of letting H go and guess what. He came back. They are heading up the long road of recovery now.<P>One more thing to add, I don't think he is bluffing. At this point he really thinks D is the only way. Let him continue in that direction. I bet that he will have a hard time actually carrying through with it. If you start acting like you will be okay without him and that he can go ahead with D he may just wake up and see that he is about to make the biggest mistake of his life.<P>Unfortunalty my STBX is not into self reflection at all and had already detached himself so far by the time he let me know that he was unhappy that I had no chance. I had to let him go. I have come so far on my own personal journey that the impending D does not frighten me anymore. I still morn the loss of my marriage and a loving relationship but I also know that I will be okay on my own. I refused to let STBX define who I was. The D is a reflection on his weakness as a person not on me. I am learning how to embrace the pain and grow from it. It can be done.<P>I hope you can find something useful in my words. It takes time but it does get better.<P>What country did your H grow up in? Mine is England/Australia. Small cultural differnces do make a difference. Also I am much closer to my family than STBX is to his. He alway was resentful of that. <P>Well, gotta run.<P>Take Care.

X<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Hi CLG,<P>You need to be speaking with someone immediately. You are in a panic stage and need to have someone work with you so that you are not stressing yourself out. <P>Everything looks bleak to you now. It is not a pretty picture but it is not hopeless ok? Take a few deep cleansing breathes. Pull yourself together. If you need to go off and cry to release some of that anxiety, go ahead. <P>Can you call Steve or Jennifer Harley? Is there a counselor you can see (some employer and health care providers have emergency counselors for their employees). Please keep us informed. <P>Sometimes in your local phone book there are women's abuse center hotlines. See if they are in your area. I don't want to panic you, I want you to be prepared. <P>Keep watching, others will post here also. <P>L.<BR>

No, I would never do anything to hurt myself. But I'm tired of waiting, of hoping, of being hurt, of crying, of feeling alone, of hearing my H putz around the house & not want anything to do with me when I want to reach out to him so bad. <p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 30, 2001).]

Hi Clg,<P>My heart goes out to you. You sound like you are in a box with no way out. I am here to tell you to look for the light. Here we will help you find it. <P>As far as your work, do you have a personal day, sick time where you can use it in hour increments? Schedule an appointment. Ask to make an appointment during your lunch hour or take a late lunch. I am a manager and if an employee told me they had to go to the doctor (it is not my business to ask why, unless I feel it is being misused), then as a manager, I need to support my employee and let them go. <P>You sound young so I am going to talk to you like an older sister though I feel I probably could almost be your mother (hope not). What we are going through as the BS is a greiving process. There is another post I would like to you to read. 2 very caring people helped me when I was down and crying out for help. Oh yes, we have all shed many tears over this 'stuff'. Yours will not be the first nor the last. <P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html</A> <P>The above thread is about the 5 stages of grieving and later in that post another person broke that down even farther. The purpose of this is to help us break down our situation into smaller steps so that it is easier to cope with. Our situations vary a bit but the impact is basically the same. <P>If you have the opportunity to go your local library, find some of the following books:<P>Surviving an Affair (by Dr. Harley)<BR>His Needs/Her Needs (by Dr. Harley)<BR>Love must be Tough (by Dr James Dobson)<P>There are many others, these are the ones that have been helpful to me. <P>I am not sure if I understood you correctly but you mentioned that you or your H are from the orient? Sometime cultures do make it harder to handle situations like these. Know this, the people here are from many walks of life and many different ages. You will never feel out of place here. We share our sorrows, tears and occasionaly a good laugh. We have been able to pick up our souls and carry on despite tremendous odds. <P>The final outcome in your situation can not be guarnateed. But I can say that if you apply what you learn here at MB (including covering the material as set by the Harley's), you will become a better and stronger person and if you H catches up to your progress, your marriage may be saved. <P>I don't want to get your hopes too high yet I don't want you to be discouraged. All of this is too new for you at this time. You just need to concentrate on your current issues and work with them one day at a time. <P>Now for the advice (you thought I was done?), don't try to control your H. As hard as it is, step back and let him go and do his thing. As HopeinAZ said, you need to let go. <P>Don't allow yourself to be sucked into his fantasy crazy fog filled world. You stay out in the clear air. Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. <P>A way to take out some personal vents is to write. If you are afraid of your H finding it. Then write things he can find. Don't pick on him in your writings, write about your feelings. If he gets mad at you, tell him that is like it is. If he wants you to feel different he will have to help you. Hm...... something to think about?!?!?!<P>I am not asking you to be disrespectful just honest. It is not wrong to tell your H you care for him, he may just not want to hear it. <P>After several months of plan A, I resorted to plan B and for me got better results. My H's personality and my inability to continue to make his problems my problems were what set me to move to plan B. Everyone is different but you will know when you are ready after you have done your homework. <P>I used to send my H's posts from here that I thought might interest him. Funny how they can see the fallacy in others and not in themselves. My H liked to receive e-mails so I communicated with him that way. It was nicer since he could not hear my anger or hurt but he still got the message. This was even though we lived in the same house. When he moved out, I continued to do the same. <P>Hope some of my long rambling is helping. If not write back. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited May 22, 2001).]

Hello again. <P>I know how things are right now, but keep hoping it will change for the better eventually! I have not asked him for anything. I dont think I have tried to control him since finding MB. How do I respond to him other than learning to say nothing at all?<P>But I did not know the damage my reactions were doing until this awful situation came to the front. He said I nver listened & he couldnt talk to me. But he was consumed with the politics at work. He still is. He never talks about anything else, even to his guy friends. How DO I provide the net for him to fall on??<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Cantletgo,<P>Just the point we are trying to make....you can't keep him from falling. You are not to be his net!!!!!<P>I would suggest that you stop doing things for him like picking up his room etc...just shut the door. I would not bring his lunch to work either. He is a big boy and can pack his own. Right now you are acting more like a mother than a wife. I doubt that these things are depositing too many love units unless there is something very special about those lunches that only you can provide. You are using the lunch as an excuse to see him which he reads as checking up on him and may even be more of a LB than a deposit in his love bank. Perhaps you could fix his lunch (if you must) the night before and request he take it with him.<P>Good for you for getting out and taking care of the yard. Those are the types of things that keep you busy and focused, just what you need at this time. If you aren't going out of town this weekend plan to do something by yourself. Go to a park, a lake, the bookstore, anything. Just get out by yourself. Get a notepad and journal your feelings. If you are afraid of him reading it keep judgements about him out of it. You need an outlet for all these negative feelings. Don't let H tag along, even if he wants to, you need to get out without him and find yourself. It is okay to be by yourself a fact that a lot of us have a hard time accepting. You are being forced to rewrite your roadmap for your life (to borrow a phrase from Scott Peck) and you are resisting it. You thought you were on the road you wanted to travel now suddenly you have come to a road block and are being forced to reevaluate and it is hard. But once you begin to see the possibilities out there instead of the impossibilities rewriting the map will become easier, you will be able to grow as a person and be happier. <P>You think you can only be happy with your H but that is not true. True happiness comes from within. We can rely on no one else to make us happy. They can contribute to that happiness but he does not give you the ability to be happy.<P>Take care.

x<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Hi Clg,<P>I have a few moments at lunch and wanted to drop you a line. You are getting good advice from HopeinAZ. She is quite a gal. <P>IMHO, you need to let your H's room be his world and his issue to clean up. Let him see the difference between his room and the rest of the house. As for the lunches, how abou this? Make it at home and let him take it, then you can graduate to letting him make his own or he can buy it. <P>RE: One of the fog like reasoning Ws's use is that they want their independence and see how much they can do. Of course this often is an excuse to carry on an A. <P>You continue to be the nice person you are. Keep yourself busy and let your H see that you are getting strong enough to take care of yourself and your responsibilities. This may irritate him a bit but then again, everything can irritate people in the fog. Don't take his anger personally. <P><BR>For me, I finally told H (after 3 months) that when he was angry at himself, he needed to look in the mirror and take his anger out on himself and not me. I would only take his anger when it truly was for something stupid that I did and he needed to prove it. I also asked that he do this in a nice way. Hm...... Took the hot air out of that excuse to wife bash. Made it a bit difficult for H to use OW's words against me. See OW used to mouth stuff and H was the 'dummy' who used to repeat her words to me. I could tell. Funny?!?!?! Yep. <P>So hang in there, we'll help you get through this. I am glad you are able to get some help. I wish I had a nice place to go and cry. I guess I do but it is a bit far and H & OW have already been there (to the ocean and Yosemite - my favorite places) YUCK. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

You are not a pest. You are person dealing with a lot in her life. We are here to help you! <P>Okay, good for you for telling us about your past. I think a therapist would be really beneficial to you right now. The trauma of losing parents, moving to a different country, distance from friends, and now your current situation; no wonder you are overwhelmed. They will be able to help you cope with these issues.<P>Now here is your weekend assignment. Go find a copy of the book "Motherless Daughters" and read it! If you can't find that one try and find one that has some advice to give on your situation. If your local bookstore does not have it request a copy or if your local library does not have it try interlibrary loans. My challenge to you is to someway somehow get a copy of "Surving and Affair" by the Harleys, "Private Lies" by Pittman, or the book you mentioned or better yet all of them and read them. Think you can do this? I know you can and you will. Getting all this accomplished will help kill a portion of a Saturday afternoon. <P>Then go get some flowers and start planting. Nothing like a pretty yard to bring you great satisfaction and some happiness.<P>Hang in there cantletgo. Breath, relax, one step at a time!<BR>

Hi CLG,<P>On a ligther subject. I have to work on my yard also and my H is a gardner by trade. Hmmmph..... so while you are reading, how about coming up with some ideas for me to plant some stuff on the side of my patio. Small plot about 10 ft by 3 feet and gets the afternoon sun big time. <P>Only joking. Hope this put a small smile on your face. <P>L.

Ha! I have a zillion gardening/landscape books I got at a garage sale, but I can never remember the information in them. Not that I've put any of it into action. Theres nothing planted in our yard besides some out of control peonies. (I'm sure H would say I never even read the books, oh well.)<P>What do you want? Annuals (only once) perrenials (every yr) etc. Mix 'em up? What kind of soil do you have? Fragrance? Color? Usually taller stuff in back, shorter in front. Plant in little clusters instead of rows. I prefer flowers to shrubs myself. Stagger stuff out so that when 1 thing is dying back, the next thing is coming into season. Low growing phlox is very popular. I like sweet alyssum myself. It smells a little bit like hay, grows like a weed! How 'bout those wave petunias in a hanging basket. <P>Better Homes & Gardens site (bhg.com) has a gardening section that has Garden Plans in there. Covers all sorts of situations - driveways, sideyards, shade, sun etc. with colored drawn diagrams & a plan for which flowers.<P>You know, I think you have just helped me realize a latent desire for a hobby I should look into developing further => Gardening!! Its always been on the backburner since I work FT & had classes PT in the pm. (No classes this summer- I'm burned out). Now to the forefront!! Thanks!

Good for you cantletgo. You seem to have a strong urge to nurture and since your H is not in a place to accept that you need to find somewhere to place that need. Creating a beautiful garden can be very gratifying. Maybe you could get a small pet? They always love your attention and they never leave you for another owner!! Best of all they don't complain about a messy house or about your appearance. <P>Just a thought.<P>Glad to hear some positive things coming from you....I was begining to worry.<P>Take Care.

Just read your profile. I went to grad school in Manhattan KS a few years ago (okay, maybe more like many years ago). I grew up in Nebraska.<P>There are several here on these boards with ties to KS. Losthusband, and Jayhawk93 live there. I think it is always nice to have some connection to people.<P>

CLG,<P>Wow, I asked for a few suggestions and I think I reached the Martha Stewart gardening hotline. What is your remedy for 'acid fingers'? <P>Thanks for the suggestions, I have a gardening book but it was much easier (or so I thought) to ask for suggestions. Anyway, I originally planted Freesia bulbs and they grew nicely until H came home and then someone stepped on them and squished my plants. I managed to salvage some of the flowers. They smell so nice. Now I have some strawberries and herb plants (cilantro and basil) in a big wooden planter next to that patch of dirt. I was thinking of putting in old bricks and leaving small patches to plant some perreniels. Not sure what yet. <P>It is nice to get on a different subject sometime. See we can learn from each other. <P>Have a nice evening and we'll chat later. <P>L.

acid fingers eh?? I actually do not have the green thumb myself but I try. How 'bout a book on Low Maintenance planting! I myself have nothing in the yard yet. I would like to put some herbs somewhere. I love the smell of rosemary. I should focus on that now. Its been colder & pouring rain lately though. <BR>We are still seperately, just about not even speaking except 1 word here & there. (- th<P><BR>I am so unhappy. I wake up every morning & cry. I hear H shuffling around. <P>I miss him so much. I want to feel his warmth next to me as I sleep, to smell his hair, even hear him snore again. He snores like a chainsaw stuck in a tree. I used to HATE it & constantly poke at him to try & turn him on his side. Now I wish he were next to me snoring!!. I'd better shut up for now. The other job I thought for sure I'd get is a bust! UP/DOWN UP/DOWN Remember Dana Carvey doing the church lady character's aerobics on Saturday Night Live? "Up to Heaven, Down to Hell"!! I still want all this rejection & withdrawal to stop ASAP & want reconsiled so bad!! Its causing me hardships at work now too. I cant think or focus & dont want to do any tasks. But I need to stay employed desperately since I have benefits.<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited May 30, 2001).]