I really wanted to take her out, it wasn`t my schedule that couldn`t change, it was her`s. As for the OM I don`t really think there is one. She told me that there wasn`t and she wouldn`t have anything to loose by telling me the truth, but you never really know. I tried to kiss her goodbye this morning and she pulled away and said no. I just shrugged it off and said goodbye and left but it really crushed me. We have been getting along so good. It really bothered me at first but the more I think about it maybe she just isn`t ready. That doesn`t take away from the way we have been getting along lately. Thanks for everyone`s thoughts. Maybe I`m just getting ahead of myself, I hope.

Confused.....<P> Well know what feels like to not be able to kiss the spouse and feel right about it. I too don't like being touched by my spouse anymore. I'm sorry to say I cringe. I know that sounds cold and I am sorry for that. But I have always been one that needs feelings to sleep with someone. I have not been with anybody just for the sex and never could. So at least your wife is not pretending if it is uncomfortable. I wish I had all the answers boy do I. I am so bitter and lonely and empty. I never in a million years thought one could feel this way but you can. I wish I knew what feeling in love really felt like too. It hurts so much. I cry at the drop of any little thing that goes wrong anymore. Sorry if sounding a little down in the mouth with this post all. If anybody has a crystal ball please tell me ok? See ya

wonder- since you are on the other side of the same type situation I am in, would you ask your husband to do things for you? Would you still rely on him to do things for you? Do you still have normal conversations with him? I am just trying to understand more. I still have hope that she will fall back in love with me. Love is something you have to work at to keep it going. You have to force yourself to do things at first. I have been married for 20 years and ther were times when I felt I was falling out of love, but I pushed on and forced myself through the tough times and found myself back in love with my wife. I still think it may be some type of midlife thing. I really don`t know. This really came out all of a sudden. I have changed a lot in the past few months, but she still brings things up like I would do or tink like before. I guess after only a few months she thinks the changes are onlt temporary. But I know they aren`t. I love my wife more than life itself, and ther isn`t a thing in this world I wouldn`t do for her. It`s funny that it takes something like this to make you realize what you have. Do you think she would still sleep with me if her feelings were the same? When this whole thing started she didn`t sllep withme for weeks. We also didn`t hardly talk to each other unless we had to. She would hardly even look at me. I really don`t know what I did to deserve all of this. I always tried to be a good husband and father, Never went out, cheated, or even argued much with her. I really want very much to work things out with her. What could your husband do, if anything to make you feel a little better toward him? I do appreciate your thoughts and comments. As I have said before this is my only outlet and I tend to ramble!

Confused......<P> No I don't ask him to do to much for me. I do want him to do things to help me out with the kids though. I feel I should not have to ask but I still do. What can he do to change my feelings well I don't think he can. Not anymore. We went to thereapy together about 3 times. All we got from that is more things that came out through our marriage and more hurt. We found out that his drinking was only a part of out problems. That in 14 years we never really communicated. Pretty sad huh? There are times I know i wonder if we married for the right reasons. In my heart I don't think he was ready to get married. He partyed alot . Ya might say he never really gew up till I gave him the choice. Either you quit drinking or we are through. Well that was 2 years ago. He has a glass of wine now and then and last Aug he drank 6 pack when I was out of town. BTW I did not find that out till months later. I know you have to work at love but in my heart I do feel and believe that if you love someone truly you would know it. I feel nothing in my heart. I suggested things and so did thereapist when we went but he never tryed them. He has never romanced me or ever been spoutnaous etc. So thereapist said whooo her again. He told me he felt like he was being tested and graded so I gave up. Why with that atttitude should I mention more. Well as for the sex we have not been close like that for months. Last time we tryed was 2 months ago and it was not good at all. Won't go into detailed on why there. We use to say lets sit down 10 mins a night and just talk. Well did that for couple weeks and then quit that too. We are civil thats about it. I still sleep in same bed yes. But some nights on the couch if having hard time sleeping. We don't talk talk no. We have short short conversations if thats what you want to call them. I don't know if this is helping any or not. He is a good person now quit drinking but he and I have nothing in common anymore. We go out and we act like friends thats it. We don't hug or kiss because I can't. I miss the closeness to a man more then you know. The cuddling which he never really did either through the years. So yes I am very very lonely inside. Theeapist told me you take care of yourself on the outside so well what happened to the inside? I cryed and said she got lost. You know how much that hurts? I cry everyday. I think its time soon to let go and move on with my kids. Like I said I see to many couples live like this for convenince,kids,fianances etc. and I am to young to do that and I won't. Sure I am scared but somewhere inside this body there is me that wants to be happy again. life is to short to be unhappy day in and day out. You just never know and it would really kill me if something were to happen to me tommorrow knowing I left this earth an unhappy person. That bothers me alot. Thanks for responding back.<BR>

wonder- It sounds as if my wife feels a little different than you, what do you think? How long have you been married? I can only continue to do things for her and hope her feelings change and some of the affection comes back. I know how you feel somedays about wanting to be happy again. Do you have any suggestions for me? Thanks

Confused.....<P><BR> Well sounds like your wife is coming around a bit. I say if its in your heart and feels right to keep doing things for you then by all means go for it. But in the mean time make sure you are not the only one giving been there too. I gave him so much and never realized that till way later either. I am reading a book called Men are from Mars Women are from Venus. You might consider reading it. I find alot of things from the past years wow we never even came close to doing. Hopefully it will help me again someday. I have been married for 14 years. You probably think I am very cold peson. Well I am not just hurt,angry, and very bitter right now. I hope it works out for you the way you want. How did you think you fell out of love with her at one point? Like I said before love comes from within even though you have to keep the flame going year after year you have to know you did have it with that person at one time. I don't think my flame ever got lit. So thats where I am today with my life. I am hoping to get this job soon to help me see I can be ok withput a man in my life. I need to find me again and be happy again with who I am on the inside.Well let me know if ya need anymore ? answered. Thanks for responding again.

this morning I asked her to see if she could get a day off nexy week so we could spend a few hours together doing something fun. At first she said her work had her tied up everyday, but when I pushed for maybe the next week she said she didn`t want to. I don`t understand why. We have been getting along better. Maybe she is afraid she may start to feel something. <BR> Wonder- I really can`t put my finger on when we actually fell out of love. It probably happened over the last few years. We really took each other for granted. Neither one of us made the attempt to change anything. She totally blames me. I know it was my fault but there were things she could have done too. I want to start now and I can`t get her to start. She really has been moody. Some days she seems like the same person, others I don`t know who is sleeping next to me.

She told me today after I aske dher to spend some time with me that she wants nothing to do with me. That I was making her begin to hate me. After 20 years this is what I get for trying to please her. i have been going outof my way to be extra nice and helping her out. We have 3 kids and she says they will get over it. I don`t think so. i need an easy way out. i can`t do this emotionally or financially I don`t know which way to turn. She has me backed into a corner. I also have no one to talk to as she has been my best friend. WHat to do?????????????????????I wish I was Dead!

Confused.........<P> Please don't say that about being dead :-( I have felt that way many times too. Until in March I had a gal I went to for years for massages hung herself. I never even knew she was that depressed. I found out she had a breakdown in Dec. and she would call her people when she got better. Well then I got a phone call she did that. So please take those thoughts out of your head. Nothing is worth that. One person told me with suicide nobody wins and everybody loses. We are here in this forum to listen ok? Maybe its time to start what I have to and that is to make yourself happy. Like on the inside thats where I am missing it. I know about not having anyone to talk to. My hubby complained about the same thing. Men just don't have the closeness with other men to talk like women do. I have to very close friends I can talk to anytime. They have saved me alot. So if you can or know anybody close to you even family member you can talk to please do. If not keep writing we are here ok? Hope you day better tommorrow.

Friday night was pretty horrible for me. She told me all of the things that I have been trying to do for her were just pushing her away even more. That no matter what she was not going to fall back in love and didn`t even want to try. That she needs to leave and get out of the house. She needs to work on her happiness. I don`t understand how this will make her happy. Sat morning I told her that I didn`t want this to get ugly and I respected whatever decision she would make. I guess I need to figure out what my next moves are. I really need to lean on this board now so I don`t tell her how I feel anymore. She told me it`s over and to get used to it. What a sucker punch. That left me sick to my stomach. I guess my next move is to let her move out if that is what she wants. I don`t know how we will do it financially. She is realy going to screw us up.

Confused........<P><BR> Yes I know that was a blow for you hearing that. I know this is hard to hear but maybe it will be better for you in the long run. Ya know my hubby has said think its time for him to find his own place about 3 times and he never does it. I know he said it to threaten me and get some reaction. But has not done anything about it yet. It will take me to make the move. In time especially after last night. I know it hurts like h-- I am there too. They always tell me time heals all wounds. Well its taking to much time for me here. Please hang in there and let me know how you are doing. Has she said anymore since she told you all this? I try and think positive everyday and its hard some days. I need time to heal inside still and so do you. Ypu know they say God gives only what you can handle UGH hes given me to much I think. But I always think there must be some good reason for all this hurt. And someday I hope I find that out. Hopefully soon because can not handle to much more. Please keep me informed. Chin up

Confused........<P><BR> Yes I know that was a blow for you hearing that. I know this is hard to hear but maybe it will be better for you in the long run. Ya know my hubby has said think its time for him to find his own place about 3 times and he never does it. I know he said it to threaten me and get some reaction. But has not done anything about it yet. It will take me to make the move. In time especially after last night. I know it hurts like h-- I am there too. They always tell me time heals all wounds. Well its taking to much time for me here. Please hang in there and let me know how you are doing. Has she said anymore since she told you all this? I try and think positive everyday and its hard some days. I need time to heal inside still and so do you. Ypu know they say God gives only what you can handle UGH hes given me to much I think. But I always think there must be some good reason for all this hurt. And someday I hope I find that out. Hopefully soon because can not handle to much more. Please keep me informed. Chin up

since the blow up friday night not much has been said. Sat I didn`t go to work but spent the day talking to a friend and then drove around to think. I didn`t get home until late. Sun I worked but before I went to work I said I wasn`t going to do everythig for everyone anymore, it was getting to be too much and I needed help around this house. When I got home a big meal was cooked, and the whole house was cleaned by her and the kids. I guess It was apretty pleasant surprise. i really need to think about how i need to act around her. any thoughts? I also started to sleep on the couch since that night, her idea. I don`t know if I should continue to do this, give it a few more days or try to return to bed?<p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited May 17, 1999).]

Confused.......<P> I would ask her if she wants you back in the bed. The only reason I say this is because I would not want to be there if not wanted. I too would sleep on the couch everynight but he says things so I don't. But we don't go to bed the same time so that helps me. I would act like yourself. Don't tip toe around and say whats in your heart if you think its right. Be yourself sounds like anything you do is not good enough now anyways. I find at times I keep my mouth shut just to avoid an argument. Although its wrong I should say what I feel. I have through the years kept my mouth shut so know I am very good at it. I know your going through hell right now so am I. My friends tell me hang in there it will get better. Gee be almost 2 years and my hole is still there inside. I don't know why my door keeps closing on me :-( I want to see one open for me just once. Is that to much to ask for? I am such a giving and caring person that one day hope to find somebody who appreciates all the and not take it for granted. Or give some back would be really nice also. I feel like somone has just ripped my heart out and stabbed it time and time again. Do you feel that too? Please keep in touch like to know how you are doing.

Confused…<P>A very similar thing happened to me. My ex said basically the same thing, that it was over and she wasn't going to try any more. She added to that it was all my fault and she did all the work. My counselor, upon hearing this, offered me some very simple, but profound advice: "Let her go."<P>It seems simple, but it really is the only thing you can do. She has made up her mind, and there won't be anything you can do to change it. She will either change it on her own, or it won't change.<P>When I left, I told my ex that I loved her, that I would always care about her, and that I wanted her to take care of herself. I also said that if she ever wanted to talk or reconsider her decision, that I was available. Then I left. I don't know if that was the best way or not, but don't part angry.<P>As far as the finances go, it probably won't be as bad as you figure. It depends on who the kids stay with. If they stay with you, you will get the house and support payments from her. If they stay with her, it goes the other way around. In any case all assets including equity get split 50/50 (except assets accumulated prior to the marriage). The courts will not take so much money from you that you cannot live. They will leave you at least enough to be able to care for your children when you have visitation. You may have to live in an apartment instead of a house, but you get use to it. Also if she is working then spousal support is pretty much a non issue. So don't worry about any of that. It will work out with some lifestyle adjustment on your part. And remember, you are under no obligation to ensure her lifestyle doesn't change. She will be moving out if she cannot afford the house on her own and that is just the way it is. Sometimes you leave that a while for the sake of the kids, but not forever.<P>Concentrate on strengthening your relationship with your children. They will need you in the next years as much as you will need them. They will be as hurt by this as much you are.<P>There is a great site at www.divorceinfo.com. This is good and cheap counseling for your situation.<P>Also, in the future, I'm thinking much quicker than you could possibly believe at this time in your life, you will meet someone else. Don't worry about that right now, just concentrate on being fair (to yourself, the kids, and her).<P>Get a fair lawyer (I mean one that will be fair to your wife and expedient, but one who will stand up and fight back if she gets silly) before you negotiate anything.<P>Remember that everything she says, as with everybody, is driven by some self serving motive. She may even go on a tour of all the friends to let them know how awful you were. If she does, she is just trying to save face. Try not to retaliate. The motivation is the same as why she has been telling you it's all your fault. It does not suit her purpose to accept any blame, so she won't. The truth is, it's not your fault, it's her fault; she is the one who is taking this action. Actions say what word don't, and the "fault" always lies with the person who "does". The person who says they are generous is never the person who is generous, the generous person says nothing and just gives. And the victim is never responsible for the murder, the killer is. The truth will make it self clear to everyone in time. Of course, non of this means you can stop her or change her mind, so let her go.<P>Oh ya, take a day of two off and go golfing or skiing. Or whatever your favorite recreation is. Something that takes all day. I went skiing on our anniversary by myself (the separation went down so fast I didn't have time to cancel the reservations I'd made for us). It turned out to be one of the most self enhancing and soul searching days I have ever experienced.<P>And get a good counselor. Send your kids too. <P>Wow, that was a long one. The most useful advice I could give you probably is: "don't take any advice". Including mine.<BR>

wonderand nonplused- Thanks for your comments and thoughts, reading them doesn give me thinks to think about each day. Yes wonder I do feel that my heart is being ripped out and stabbed over and over. There isn`t a day that goes by that I don`t think about that for a while. <BR> Before the blowout friday night she gave me a letter she wrote and told me to go somewhere and read it. I did, and in the letter she said she could see all the changes I was making and how hard I was trying. She said they wouldn`t change her mind that she wasn`t attracted to me and didn`t have any lust or passion for years. That really hurt. She loved me but was not in love with me. I tried to talk to her about this but she only gets angry and says she wants to make herself happ. and that she has to leave to do that. I asked her how leaving her family will make her happy and being by herself. She doesn`t answer. She cuts off any ideas I try to suggest and doesn`t want to talk about them. Wonder, do you think I should write her a letter telling her how I feel about all of this since she doesn`t give me a chance to explain? If she put as much time into trying to fix our family as she does trying not to be home we might get somewhere. I think she just has her mind on the idea and doesn`t want to hear any options because she is afraid of being talked into it. She leaves for work early and comes home late. She tell me there is noone else and I guess I should believe her.<BR> I don`t know how to stop thinking about her. She pushed me into a lot of renovations on our house last year that I really didn`t want to do, but did it for her. That put is really tight financially for the next 4 years.If she left neither one of us could survive. I explained that to her several times.<BR> She has been very moody, I think it is because she really in her heart doesn`t know for sure what to do either. When I didn`t come home sat. night until late I foud out she had called several time to find out if I had returned home. She was working that night. I really think we could make it happen again but she told me in the letter she doesn`t even want to try. The friend I talked to told me to let go and do what i need to around the house. make her ask if she needs something, don`t be available for her. Will this push her away even more? I told you how she acted sunday, but the last few days it was back to the same attitude. I can`t seem to let go. Every time I try to do something all I think about is her. Yesterday at work I had chest pains so bad I had to go to the hospital. It turned out to be viral and I was given some pills to take but I really think is was stress. Even as I laid on the bed for hours being tested all I thought about was her and her giving us another chance. <p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited May 19, 1999).]

Confused......<P> Yes write her a letter back if she will not talk one on one. My thereapist told me writing or e-mailing them is still communicating. I did that for awhile to it was easier for me and hubby thought it was because did not want to talk face to face that was not it. I write my feelings down very well always have. Besides that way you cannot fight if doing the discussing face to face. Write how you feel or what ever you want. If anything you know you tryed that too. I know what your wife means though about nothing there as far as feelings. I know the pain you feel though too. I have felt so empty that thoughts for ending all the pain for good has entered my mind. But not anymore. I don't think them anymore though. Someone once told me nobody wins and everybody loses if you take that route. See what happens after you write her that letter. But I know also about not wanting to be home. I am there too. At least when hes home. Its hard for me to be alone with him we don't talk and if do its about kids. I am glad you talked over the weekend to a friend. She will always love you in someways like I do hubby. But in love I don't feel anymore either. I owe it to me and him in time to let him be loved like he should be. Me not sure if thats in my cards cause I am so scared anymore. I never thought anyone person could hurt me like he did. Maybe its because I finally got to where I like how I look on the outside was alot of hard work then this came along. Now my insides need the mending. I pray everynight so maybe someday i will have those in love feelings again. Not sure how or when or who but maybe in time. I know how you feel try and take one day at a time its harder then hell but I try. Keep in touch.

You just finished renovations on the house? Yikes. The exact (well, very, very similar) thing happened to me. My ex asked me to move out one week after I finished retiling the shower in the on-suite bathroom! This was the cumulation of 6 months worth of work on a brand new (for us) house that included painting the whole main floor, putting up wall paper and blinds, building a garden in the back yard, building one of those big wood swing sets for the kids, new retaining wall, new garden shed, prune all the trees, build a new laundry work station, buy new leather furniture, new wall units, new stereo, etc., etc. All the colors and selections were hers. I just did the work. Then she asked me if I could paint the kitchen. I said I thought we needed new cabinets too, so we should wait until next year around bonus time. She dumped me a few days later. Needless to say she would not give up the house or any of the new furniture afterwards. I was able to ply this for reduced support payments, but it does seem rather ridiculous. In any case, the simple fact is it takes a woman longer than 1 week to decide she wants a divorce, and I was set up.<P>Any way, I'm not trying to suggest that you were set up as well. But I did have to learn to let all those material things go. It was hard because there was an awful lot of sweat equity in there and a lot of emotional attachment to our first house, etc. It was carefully selected as a good place to raise "our" family. <P>When I left I spend 3 months sleeping at my friend's, in his kid's room. (He is divorced as well, gets the kids every second weekend.) All I had there was about half my clothes in a suitcase and a toothbrush. I didn't even have my own car. I had a 1967 Mercury Cougar that I had rebuild (myself) for my ex! Her grandma had bought the car new. I couldn't even drive the kids around in it. She kept the Jeep Cherokee of course. I would "move in" to the old house every second weekend to look after the kids, and she would go to her parents. Things were pretty miserable, but I got a lot of support from a lot of different people. At the end, my friend and I had a great time, and then I got a nice bonus and was able to get on my feet (and go to Mexico for a week).<P>Turns out, I could have done a brand new kitchen for her with the bonus. But timing is everything. She wanted to "date" because she "missed out" when she was younger, and I was cramping her style. So she needed me gone quickly.<P>The good news for you is that your wife will be responsible for exactly one half of all the debts you have as well. If she can't cover them, it comes out of her half the equity in other things. Hopefully the cost of the renovations are recoverable from the sale of the house, if it comes to that.<P>There is no talking to a person who is off in a "I need to be happy" trance. My wife was saying the exact same things. Happiness comes from within, and until my ex. finds it herself she won't be happy anywhere. The only thing I could do is offer her my support and let her go. She even told me that she was very grateful I let her go. Who knows, maybe she will find some happiness inside in a year or so and want to come back? And I am free from this unreasonable expectation that I should be responsible for making her happy, and the unfair accusation that I was responsible for making her unhappy. And living without that burden hasn't been all that bad. Actually, it's rather refreshing. I don't have a house anymore, but other than that life goes on. Who knows, maybe she did me a big favor. And I'm scoring way more goals in soccer as well. No idea why, but there it is. <BR>

I don`t understand the moods. One minute she asks like I`m being a pain just asking a question the next thing she is asking me to do something for her. I can`t figure her. I try to be there for her. I wrote the letter today and plan to give it to her before I go away this weekend. i`m visiting some family and the kids and wife have other things. wonder, what, if I may ask, did your husband do to make you fall out of love? I can`t figure out anything I did wrong except the both of us being too complacent and not appreciating each other. nonplused, I hope my wife doesn`t leave and I appreciate you sharing your expierence with me. Do you think I should talk to a lawyer. I got sucker punched once and I don`t want it again. I don`t want her to leave but I need to be prepared to protect my kids. I don`t want their lifestyles to suffer badly because she doesn`t know what she wants. I still don`t understand, she says she wants to make herself happy. By doing what, leaving her family, turning her back on her kids???Living by herself? <BR> Wonder, my wife has spent time on herself to make herself happy and she loks great, better than ever. Why doesn`t she want to do anything with me? I`ve never had an affair, laid a hand on her. Tried to give her everything she needed. What happened was both of our faults, not just mine. That is why I want to start over. Try to do things differently. She wants nothing to do with me. By the way I did go back to bed, so far she hasen`t said a word about it. I really need to get my head straightened out.<P><BR>

Confused..........<P> Well the reason I fell out of love is because I realized after his years of drinking I never felt like a wife. I was a sitter and caregiver. And he did verbally abused me. I just never really knew it till later. And I guess one might say I finally woke up. I know about not feeling like ya want to be around the husband I am like that also. But its because he is not fun to me at all. We don't have anything in common anymore. Thats my reasons. And I too am like your wife I look better now then when I was 30. Not to many late 30 year old women can fit in size 3 or smaller. I think getting away for her lets her think to. When around you at home I am sure its hard for her to think. I will not leave my kids behind though I do know that. I don't feel in love anymore I do love him hes the father of my kids. I know you are trying to please her but maybe you should just not for a bit see what she does then. I know when my hubby was trying to be to nice it just pushed me away more I felt suffocated. Maybe thats how she feels. So let me know if this helped you out at all. Keep in touch.