I recently found out that my ex H has had an alcohol problem. During the last year of our marriage, I suspected it, fought with him about his drinking, listened to lies and heard every denial. I had to take him at his word. We have been divorced for about 8 months, and he told me that he has been going to counseling and has been sober. He told me about how after he moved out he would be drunk all the time--day and night--tried drugs, and was basically in a stupor. Unfortunately the night that he "confessed" all of this to me, I smelled alcohol on his breath.<P>I don't understand the disease. We are divorced, but I find myself haunted by this whole thing. It was like being hit with a brick in the gut. It explains A LOT of things that happened over the last year and a half. Even longer. He lives out of state, and I have no contact with him and don't want any. I am just haunted by it and have a lot of questions.<BR>

Al-Anon is a great resource for those who have been affected by alcholism.<P>Also, there are some Alcoholics Anonymous meetings that are open to non-alcoholics. You could call around and see if you would be allowed to sit in on one. <P>My father was a serious alcoholic for most of my childhood, but completely gave up drinking about 20 yrs ago. There is lots I could tell you, but I think you'd be better off going to a few meetings yourself.<P>Be aware. There are behaviors that you engaged in too that were not exactly healthy, and they will tell you this at Al-Anon. It is not just about your ex. Believe it or not, my mom was more in denial about some of the things that happened during my childhood than my dad was. She still is to some degree. Because she never had the drinking problem herself, it was easy to blame it all on my dad. <P>It is good that you want to understand this.

Hey!<P>Wow! Alcoholism was a <B>major</B> factor in the bad parts of my marriage. My ex is an alcoholic and has been for several years. He is also a drug addict.<P>He started drinking when he was about 12 and is now almost 34. The longest period of time that he has went without drinking is 4 months. He did that 2 times in the 10 1/2 years we lived together. <P>I think you should take TS's advice and ty to go to Al-Anon meetings. Or at least research alcoholism on the internet. She's also right about you contributing to it. At least you probably did so unknowingly. I did that myself. I was a classic enabler. <P>Good luck!<P>Mitzi

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsd:<BR><B>I recently found out that my ex H has had an alcohol problem. During the last year of our marriage, I suspected it, fought with him about his drinking, listened to lies and heard every denial. I had to take him at his word. We have been divorced for about 8 months, and he told me that he has been going to counseling and has been sober. He told me about how after he moved out he would be drunk all the time--day and night--tried drugs, and was basically in a stupor. Unfortunately the night that he "confessed" all of this to me, I smelled alcohol on his breath.<P>I don't understand the disease. We are divorced, but I find myself haunted by this whole thing. It was like being hit with a brick in the gut. It explains A LOT of things that happened over the last year and a half. Even longer. He lives out of state, and I have no contact with him and don't want any. I am just haunted by it and have a lot of questions.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You can also check out the co-dependency sites online for your self. My dad was an acholic as well. They are very sick. It's great to educate yourself and it's not your fault there was nothing you could have done to fix him or help him. They have to reach bottom and hopefully come up,some do some don't.The important thing you can do is take care of you.<P>Sincerely<P>c<BR>

I'd check out <A HREF="http://www.healthrecovery.com" TARGET=_blank>www.healthrecovery.com</A> <P>Its the website of the Health Recovery Center in Minnesota, and was founded by Joan Matthews Larson, author of "Seven Weeks to Sobriety." <P>It has a wealth of information on the chemical and physiological aspects of this disease. And yes, it is a physical disease, not a weakness of will or fault of character. Much of the work flies in the face of traditional views of alcoholism, but their success rate in treating the disease is surprising.

"And yes, it is a physical disease, not a weakness of will or fault of character."<P>I do agree with this too. Still, at some point they need to understand that they are addicted and must seek treatment. Another thing I've learned...there are people out there who never ever have a problem with drugs or alcohol, yet do other destructive things. I'm one of them, probably. "Stinkin' Thinkin'", as they say. At least alcoholics have a "symptom". They have an indicator to show that something is not right. My dad almost considers himself to be "blessed" in a way, and after observing his and my mother's recovery I understand. We all are our own worst enemies. <P>Knowledge is power, though. I do hope you go check out an Al-Anon meeting or something of that sort.

<A HREF="http://www.alcoholismhelp.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.alcoholismhelp.com</A> <P>This site has tons of information and message boards just like this one. A lot of people write about their alcoholic spouse/friend/relative there. I know how you feel. My husband chose alcohol over his family, and I'm through with the abuse.<P>Godspeed,<BR>Nell

Thanks everyone. I did some research on the web, and believe it or not, there is ONE Al-Anon meeting in the Orlando area. And it is an hour away from me. Imagine that. A big city like this....hmmm. I am still planning to go in a few weeks when I get back from my vacation. I recently read a book about co-dependency, and though I don't think that I am a classic codependent as is outlined in the book, I do think I enabled his behavior in some ways. I think I still did even after the divorce. <P>I had an ugly dream last night. I don't remember it all, but I do remember him sitting on a couch, high, shaking, and making no sense. In my dreams, it was drugs, not alcohol. Granted, I never saw him like this in reality, but the image of him with a strung out grin, eyes sunken in, trembling, and claiming to be completely sober was almost too much to take--it was too real. He was saying over and over again "never again, baby." uggh. Sometimes I hate going to sleep.

GSD, I am sure there are many more meetings in your area than just one. You may have to call the local Al-Anon Information Service in your area and ask for meeting times and locations.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Something you MUST understand...you did not make him drink..<BR>he choose to drink all on his own..<P>To "enable" basically means you would hide the amount of drinking he actually did..you would cover up things..and not<BR>allow him to face the consequences of his own actions..<P>I am speaking from experience here..I did the same thing..my stbxh worked out of town..and would use the credit card to buy groceries (I even paid the credit card bill) so he could have his "cash" to buy his alcohol...then he'd run out of cash..and call me asking for more money..because HE WAS BROKE!!! and couldn't afford to pay his living expenses while out of town..so I would send him more money..even at the expense of supporting the needs of three children..and not paying the bills on time because I didn't want him to do without..I'd rather I did without..than HIM do without<BR>being so far away from home..felt guilty that he was so far away from home with NO money..and no food..and not enough money to pay his rent..to where he wouldn't have a place to live..he'd have to sleep in his truck..and after all I was a stay home mom..and HE was WORKING supporting the family...and it was HIS paycheck after ALL...(all things he remind me of when he'd call asking for money) and HOW COULD I allow him to do without?? I finally got to the point that I would tell him NO, I didn't have the money to give him..and I had bills here that needed to be paid..more than once the electricity was shut off, the car was repo'd, we almost lost the house..All because I didn't allow him to do without..I didn't allow him to face the consequences of HIS actions..and when I finally did force this on him..he got mean and vindictive..started using his paycheck as a weapon..saying things like.."If you don't do this then I will be forced to take the paycheck away from the household so that I can afford to live, and YOU won't have the money coming in that you do now, and you won't be able to afford to go to school anymore..and won't be able to stay home with the kids anymore" all playing on the guilt strings..I finally got to the point where I said..Do what you need to do..I can't live like this anymore..and he did..he changed his allotment to where it went from almost $3000 a month to <BR>$1300 a month...I still have the car payment..house payment three kids to support..now paying child care so that I can work..all the credit card bills that he helped run up, all the regular monthly expenses..and all he has is himself...and he says I am being selfish..<P>It wasn't easy making this decision..because I know the kids are doing without a lot of things they had before..but I also know that it's something I had to do for my own sanity..and to prevent losing everything..and it's hard to look at myself and see where I allowed this to happen..and it makes me sad..that his drinking and being away is more important than being part of the family...which is what I actually "Hoped" would happen..that he would realize how important these things were to him..but it didn't work that way..he's willing to "stay" in the marriage as long as it stays the way it was..he's told me he hates the changes I've made in my life..and has even said he hates me..but it's more that he doesn't like himself..and doesn't like my forcing him to be responsible for his own actions for the first time ever in his life..he lived at home when we met..his mom was also an enabler to his fathers drinking..and to his..she went without many things..even living in a one room house for years with five kids because his dad drank..and thats okay..that was her..NOT ME!!! But he expects me to be the same way..and I was for years..I have just grown up emotionally and realized I can't live like that anymore..and need more for me..and deserve to be treated respectfully...and something I'd like to share with you...that helped me out...<P><BR>You can tell how much a man loves his wife by how he treats his own body...if he treats his own body with disrespect..<BR>ie..drinking, drugs, whatever..then thats how he will treat his wife...<BR>

BR,<BR>Yes, I am sure there are more meetings. I was surprised at the number. There are two AA meetings in my "small" suburb alone. I will take your advice and call the number for the one meeting I do know of. They probably have a directory of sorts.<P>TR,<BR>WOW. I cried when I read your post. It was like a ton of bricks hit me all over again. One major issue in our marriage was financial. My ex worked as a waiter in a restaurant because he wanted the flexible hours becasue he wanted to get published. He always had cash, and we never had enough money to pay the bills. I didn't understand because I made very good money, and even worked two jobs because I wanted to be supportive of his dream. The power got turned off, bills would be late, and we had to roll pennies for lunch money sometimes. Yet he always had money for a good bottle of Belvedere Vodka and a new sterling silver stemmed up glass. I never put my foot down in regards to bills and money because I knew that I was pretty bad at managing money myself. So I let him handle it, make me feel guilty about wanting a hair cut after 12 weeks, or wanting to go to a movie without him. He would lie to me aobut drinking and just so I would not upset him (he was an exceptional drama queen an a master manipulator), I would back down and apologize. He always had cash on him, and would come home late at night. I knew he was lying about how much money he made each night because his stories and amounts would never match up. He made piddlings for a waiter, but everytime I wanted him to change jobs, he would claim that it was great money.<P>It seems like you and I both rationalized away parts of their behavior, but how does one stop it without sacrificing part of ourselves? I guess we were giving things up all along. It was just a question of how much and what. A half dozen of one, six of the other. I am beginning to see that the divorce might have been the best thing for me and my future, and that goes against all that I believe about marriage.

Thats what enablers do..they pay the consequences of other peoples actions..and lose site of themselves as individuals..all for what?? love??

Hi all,<BR> Boy these post got me on a role today.<P>My XH was a heavy drinker. He would go thru nearly 1 case a day. I knew he drank beer before we got married but, after we got married it was worse. I was pregnant when we got married and thought that was the right thing to do.<P>It wasn't to bad in the beginning he would have his first beer around 5pm (shaking and all). Would have last beer on night stand by our bed. It became a real problem when he would get nasty. At first it was verbal. I knew I could not talk to him when he was like that it would only make it worse. No matter what I would say would turn into an argument, Even if it was I love you. (that hurt)<P>Last year he got an idea to start his own painting bussiness. I supported him. He quit his full-time job, lost benifets and everything. I had to go back to work. Well the only time you get money in is if you have jobs. <BR>So of course instead of the first beer at 5pm it was 8am.<P>I had to pay for daycare could not trust son at home with him. Would get home myself and cook dinner, laundry the usual. By this time he would be totaly fud. Had the verbal arguments and he I think was so mad at self for not supporting family got violent. I knew this was wrong and did not want to do it. I tried for a years after that. Until he hit my son in the head and that was it for me.<BR>I geuss I should've done it for me but, I thought I was strong. I would finally fight bac (I did break his thumb once). I knew it was wrong. I learned I could not help him that he has to want to help himself.<P>So far he has been good when he has my son. I do think he knows if he would ever hurt him he will not only have me to deal with but so many other people. I do believe he loves his son... As for me the pain never goes away fully it just fades. <P>Sorry this turned into a book.<P>Wishing us all well<BR>.......JJ..........<p>[This message has been edited by JJ71197 (edited May 28, 2001).]

You know it's so sad that there are so many ppl in abusive relationships..and stay because of fear..whether the fear be<BR>they will not be loved by anyone else..or the fear they can't make it alone as a single parent..the fear that this person can't be responsible for themselves and NEEDS me there to make sure everything gets done, yet..when does the alcoholic/abusive person have to be responsible for their own behavior??? I don't think alcoholism is a disease..it's a way of life..that they choose to not be responsible for their own actions..and use alcohol as a way to run from the hurts they feel inside..I know..because I used to do that..I didn't want to face my own internal pain..so I drank..thinking that would make the pain inside go away..and they always find someone who will "take care" of them, whether it be a parent, sibliing or spouse..they are master manipulators..and until they are forced with facing the consequences of their own actions..they will never just quit drinking..why should they??? they don't have any thing worry about...everyone else does that for them....but hey..thats just my opinion...

Wow. I am so sorry JJ. I cannot imagine what you went through. Same for TR. Fortunately for me, my ex was never abusive, angry, or angry. Just very irresponsible. Sometimes sexual, out of it, mellow. Very easy to get along with. Not much of a personality change. He was always very tender and respectful (I know, I know, "respect"...). We never were cruel to each other when we fought or argued. And when he drank, he was always a gentle person. Maybe that is why it was so easy for me to just ignore or deny it. I had heard stories like yours and thought "that is not my H." I thought I was safe. But people react differently to alcohol. I still even now do not like admitting this. Sounds like a copout. "Hey, my ex was an alcoholic. It is all ok now." But for some reason, knowing the real deal now makes it all worse.

Hi Gang,<P> I geuss there is more of us out there than we think!<P>I knew I wasn't alone but, at the time it sure felt like it.<BR>And you are right the fear gets the best of us. I knew it would be hard being a single mom (boy is it ever)but, a very special friend tuaght me to have JJ time. Thou it is hard right now I still sometimes wonder if he will change? There is no love there for this man at all. He has killed all those feelings, except he is my childs father. You were also right about Why should they change: We were there and put up with it and they new that. I left I choose that. He did not want me to leave.<BR>One night he said he was going for a case I told him if he got a case of beer. I would be gone before he got back. He went, I left. He thought I was joking. He thought he would let me cool off a few days and I come back. He stated he would quit. By this time I had enough.<BR>He would not see his son for 3 months. Blamed it on me b/c I was the one that left. I felt so guilty. Almost to the point where I thought of going back.<BR>But no here I am. Thanxs to my friends I am getting stronger! I will make it. It is not easy but, I will be fine. Thank you all.<P>.............JJ...............

JJ...my stbxh didn't think I was serious either..when I told him I couldn't live like that anymore..and he's mad at me and blames me for his not living here anymore..he thought that when he threatened to take the paycheck away and such that I would back down and tell him okay we can keep things as they are..your right..I'm wrong..things aren't that bad..<BR>you can drink all you want to..and I'll just shut up and be the good little wife..but I didn't...so it's ALL MY fault..but thats okay...I know the truth..and that to me is whats most important right now...<P>

AND NOW A WORD FROM THE [censored]<P>First of all I would seriously reccommend Al-anon but make sure that you find an ALANON FAMILY GROUP NOT AN ACOA, also try a CoDa meeting.<P>Oh yes I am the [censored] that is what mny nickname is in the ALANON groups I attend. WHY? You may ask yourself well I am also an alcoholic. For all those that are married to or divorced from there is hope for your alky. Should he ever want to change for himself. AA WORKS! ALANON WORKS!!!<BR>But there is a lot more to being sober than just putting down the drink, You need to realize that behaviours that were deveoped before the booze was added were perfected after. Manipultaion,control,intimidation,anger,rage,dishonesty all of these are fairly common umong drunks these are used to avoid our own feelings. The other common thread is that almost all drunks have very little if any self esteem, we alwasy felt not worthy, less than not equal to. This might not be apperant on the outside for we are also masters of disguse. <BR>But I truely believe today that the one thing we all share is that all we ever wanted was to be LOVED AND CARED for for just who we are. But there in lies yet another terror, you see most of us do not know who we are.And yet another observation most of us came from abusive families, so we NEVER learned how to love, how to repsect or how to be a friend. I know that you might not understand this. But it is true. Also YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR BEHAVIOURS OR DRINKING!!! We on the other hand have destroyed your selfesteem, made fearful, tremble in anguish, victims of abuse ranging from emotional to physiacl, taken you hostage kept you prisoner tried to control your life when we did not like what you did flew in to violent rages. But you must understand that we do not regonize this as wrong behaviour for it is all we have ever known! I drank for 30+ years I avoided feelings for longer than that. I lived in pain for all that time. To love myself and then another human being I have to get rid of that pain, but what do I replace it with? Remebr it is ALL I EVER KNEW!<P>------------------<BR>If you are living in the problem then you are not part of the solution!<P>I CAN'T<BR>HE CAN<BR>I THINK I WILL LET HIM

Hey RidinSober<BR>Thank you so much!<BR>In my feild of work I see people that are going to rehab and so forth. The tell they don't want to be like that anymore. When I was in my own situation. I didn't see that he wanted to be anything but the way he was. I wonder since that to is all he knew. Did he actually love me at one time or was it all the alchol? Every morning I would bring up what happened the night before and he would say sorry and open a beer. I tried to help. I called people and organizations. He was in rehab before I met and it failed. He states it started when he was younger. (his father committed suicide when he was 3) He thruout his life was in prison and in and out of trouble. Drugs stealing ect. All of I was unaware until after I met him. He seemed proud of it. Of course we did not live in a good city. I grew up the country way and what a shock to me. I did try to understand. I failed bigtime I geuss in that department. I finally gave up after (the hitting, name calling, put downs, kids screaming in fear, and feeling alone, lost,)<BR>This not to many people know. I was so scared and unhappy, I wanted out of this world of shameful life. I tried didn't succeed, thank-you gods. Everyday I look at the scare and smile that I'm here and well. I know now that some people do care about me and I am worth something (what I don't know yet, I'm working on that). I do get mad at myself sometimes for not caring about him at all, but I don't. He brought my life to the lowest for too many times and I won't forgive him for that. I do wish he gets better. For my son and his son and whom ever he would be with, I know it won't be me. I'm trying to move on!!!!!! I will move on. I have found happiness. <P>Thanks to all<BR>Wishing us all well<BR>........JJ...........

THANK YOU Riden. You are not a [censored]. We are just feeling frustration and pain. All of what you said has helped tremendously. The Alanon meetings are on Tuesday nights here, and though I am going away for a few weeks soon, I want to attend one when I get back. <P>Funny thing: my ex's brother is a recovering alcoholic. He goes to AA meetings regularly. My ex went to one or two, and said that they resemble a cult and he wants no part of them. He says it has cultish overtones or something. He admits that he has a problem, but then says at our last meeting that he "will have only one drink with his dad on Sunday." He has vistited his pastor and is seeking counseling.<P>One thing I am being very conscious of is blaming him OR me for any of this. I have always suspected he had a problem, even talked to some of his friends and voiced concerns, but until he "admitted" it, I really didn't know for sure. What I do not want to do is stand up and pompously shout "My ex was an alcoholic. I am a victim now, feel sorry for me. I am vindicated." I am scared to slip into that kind of role. I don't blame myself or take any responsibility for it, but I certainly don't want to look at it as the only source of our problems or as a scapegoat for my own. It is hard for me to admit for many reasons: I am a very damn proud woman: my biggest fault by far. So I am not quite sure how I feel. <P>