I think you may be right about the more I try to be nice, it may be pushing her away. All the time she has to think, I think she is talking herself into it even more. In the letter I wrote I suggested she confide in her brother, sister or mother and sometimes it is good just to get someone`s opinion on what is going through your mind. She says she hasn`t talked this over with anyone, but I really think she has with one of her friends, maybe just not all the details. How would leaving make her happy?Her standard of living would drop and she wouldn`t see her kids. I don`t do anything to her while she is at home. I really don`t understand at all. Do you think if I stop doing things for her she will take it as I don`t care anymore? She already says she doesn`t care how much I love her. Why won`t she evn give us a try? I can`t help but worry each day that this may be the day that she leaves. I know I shouldn`t think like thatbut you can`t control your thoughts. I think my friend was right, I`m just head over heels in love with her. I make a plan not to ask her about her whereabouts or do things for her and when she looks at me and asks me to do something I just melt and give in. How do you control this. How do I stop myself from trying to please her all the time? I really need to to see what happens. We haven`t told our family about us yet. I was hoping things would get a little better. I know the letter won`t help us but I got a chance to get some things out without a confrotation.<p>[This message has been edited by confused58 (edited May 20, 1999).]

Confused;<P>The question on the timing of a lawyer is a good one. You definitely do not want to start with a separation agreement and the whole adversarial process until you have satisfied yourself that this is what she wants and there is just no way around it. How to figure that out? I would just ask. It sounds to me like you and your wife go through a cycle of getting along better and then not so well again, but through it all there is no change in her over all intentions. But the best thing is to clarify it with her. If she says it's over, you have to accept that. You might consult a lawyer just to get an idea what sort of things to expect in your particular situation.<P>I know you want her to stay. I desperately wanted my ex to stay as well. I begged her to try counseling, to give it some time, anything. But in the end, it was not my decision. It was hers. I think you are in a similar situation. I found one of the hardest things to accept about loving somebody is that you have really no ability to stop them from doing really harmful things, both to themselves and to others. When I tried, she felt controlled or that I didn't value her feelings and ideas. She wants to decide on her own, and she wants autonomy.<P>Most people can think through the possible results of a decision. But I think people who make decisions emotionally have a terrible time with this. They actually have to try something and experience the emotional consequences of the decision before they can decide if it was a good idea. This may not be your wife but it certainly is mine. My ex has done it before, where she has made a terrible decision because it sure looked exciting at the time, and then come home heartbroken and in trouble. She never makes the mistake again, but she can't learn without making it once. That's just the burden of emotional thinking. In my case it is kind of depressing to watch, as she spends money like crazy replacing stuff around the house, on babysitters so she can date, etc. She obviously cannot accept that our divorce is going to negatively affect her standard of living. But September is coming, and she has no job. She is trained as a teacher, and in our area the school board is planning to lay off 200 teachers, not hire more. Unfortunately, I know she will not give anything a second thought until she actually experiences the emotions of losing the house, not having enough money for rent, and having to take an office job. But I cannot do anything about it. That is just how her process works. <P>I hope she does get a job. It would be much better for my kids.<BR>

Confused:<P>It's been a year now. Can you give us an update on your situation?<P>Thanks.

<small>[ January 27, 2005, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Dear confused,<P>Just 3 weeks ago, I was in the same situation you were in. My wife told me almost verbatim what your wife is telling you. I continued to be loving without smothering her. I made no demands and continued to be a husband and father to the fullest extent the circumstances would allow.<P>I finally reached a point where it became unbearable, and I left in the middle of the day while my wife was at work. This was after two months of concerted prayer and a total surrender of my situation to God.<P>The action I took hit my wife like a thunderbolt and within 24 hours she did a complete 180 degree turnaround. She is now as loving and attentive as when we were first married.<P>Why did this happen? I believe it was for several reasons:<P>1. I made some real changes in myself. I lost 25 lbs. and became a calmer, more loving father.<P>2. I prayed incessantly with 100% faith in God's plan for me.<P>3. In the last few days of this crisis, my demeanor went from one of desparation to quiet confidence.<P>4. I shocked my wife by leaving.I borrowed my dad's van and moved every trace of myself<BR>from her life.<P>5. I left the door open for our reconciliation. I did not have someone waiting for me. I didn't know what my future held. I just gave it to God completely.<P>I'm not telling you to leave your wife. But you should look at yourself and your situation and decide if there is still a core of loving and caring there. A book which I found of tremendous help during this period was "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. It is full of practical advice about the dynamics of the marital relationship.<P>God bless you and good luck.

This sounds exactly like what I did to my first husband thirteen years ago! All the same actions, projects, plans and words! I never told him, but he did eventually guess, that I was having monumental crushes and perhaps even an EA while totally denying it. Nothing he could have done would have made me stay by that point after 12 years of a silent, unaffectionate, nearly sexless marriage. He did change a lot overall, but too little too late for me. I have regretted leaving him many, many times over the past decade +. He is very happily remarried. New wife refused to tolerate many things I thought it was my duty to tolerate. We never had any conflict, just lack of love on my part. My EN's were not being met, but neither were all of his. If I'd found MB in time back then we would certainly still be married. Unfortunately Dr. H. didn't write His Needs Her Needs until too late for us.<P>Now, assuming your wife has feelings outside the marriage, she will probably never admit it. Drag her into counseling and confront her with the probability without forcing her to confess. Let her know that you understand that it is only a matter of time once she feels the way she does about you before she succumbs to an outside attraction. Then you might have a crack at working the MB programs.<P>Good luck and God bless! I do not think this is hopeless at ALL.

vvvv<p>[This message has been edited by fed up (edited March 22, 2000).]

This is just_mes husband. My wife has been on this site since we started having problems months ago. The reason I wanted to get on here and say something is because I see a big thing missing here with your words/her words. She has told you that she has simply grown away from you and this has gone on for the past couple of years. Im sure she has told you that it has nothing to do with you and Im sure she thinks your a great person, maybe even tells you how she thinks you are to good for her. In the past couple of years you did little things that made her start to fall out of love and there is nothing she can do about her feeling because it has gone to far. This may be true and may not be true but this is why I say it.<BR> I told my wife these sames things and true it did not have anything to do with another person, so I thought at the time. I did have another person that I wasnt with at the time but in my head I was thinking about it and that is why I grew unhappy with my wife. I was no longer in love, wich is true because I had someone else blocking my feelings. If your wife has told you that she is not involved with someone else then I find that hard to believe. You said she has nothing to lose by telling you if she was, but your wrong. She does still love you and she cant stand to see you hurt. Thats why she wrote the letter and wanted you to read elsewhere. Let her see your hurt, but dont let her see your anger and it will help break her down.<BR> I think the two of you can start working on fixing what you had and I think still have once you get the truth out. I am sorry to think that she is with someone else but atleast that is something you can work with. This thing of one saying they simply feel out of love is bull and you cant do anything with that. Once this truth is out the battle will have only started. The next thing that you will have to deal with is her lover and her feelings for him but I beleive this is a good thing and not a bad one. My wife and I went up and down and then I told her a little more each time I would leave and come back. It was this last time I left that I realized that I did love my wife and I didnt want to be with another person. You see, as much as I dont like what Iii have done to my wife I know now that it was something that I was going to do and its good that I have it out of the way. If someone is place in a position like I think your wife is then she spends all her time wondering what it would be like to spend the rest of her life with this other person and not the one she is with now. I was like that and then one day I said I wasnt going to spend the rest of my life wondering. So I moved out of my wifes life and in to this other persons home. It wasnt even a week before I knew I had done the wrong thing. That the person I loved I had left and now would have to win back. That is what I am doing for now and for the rest of my life.<BR> I hope that I am wrong about your wife because I dont wish that pain on anyone, but what I hear you saying that she tells you is the classic case of me and others just like me. If I am wrong then that is great and if I am right then you have something to work on. I wish you luck and hope that your outcome is as good as mine.<BR> <P>

Dear Confused,<P>Here's advice from someone who has had the same feelings as your wife. I love my H but have felt I'm not "in-love" with him any more. The issues are complicated and has built up for some time. We have been married 15 yrs in June, and have 2 kids. I know I could feel differently about my husband if he were to make some changes, for instance sharing his inner most thoughts and feelings. Treating me special, instead of the same old thing day after day. After you've been married for so long you get complacent and just don't put in the effort you did when your relationship was new. Here are some suggestions I'd make to my husband if he wanted any advice. Read all of Dr. H's material and start focusing on your wifes needs, especially her emotional needs, treat her with great care and concern. Do not pressure her about talking, but talk to her, tell her how you feel, what your thoughts are, what you might be feeling without making references to past slights. When she brings up an old issue, talk about it, let her get it out of her system, validate it, and deal with it, then put it behind you both. Start to slowly treat her differently, woo her all over again, but this time, don't stop, don't get complacent and take for granted your mutual love. I believe there is hope, but you will have to give her time, and don't pressure her, but don't ignore her either!! Treat her like someone who is near, that you want to get to know VERY intimately, so much so that you know what she's thinking. Become her best friend, and I think she'll start rethinking her feelings. Take it slow, good luck, and God bless you both.