Well,<P>For all who know me, and know what I've been through. Here comes another shocker...<P>OW's Husband called me today.<P>Ow told him a few months ago that I had her # and may call him. Not to believe anything I say because I would just ly to him out of anger. I am a vindictive person...<P>She told him on Christmas day she is in love with Richard. And would divorce him. That Richard would divorce me as soon as he finished school, then they would commit to each other. (SEE I knew I shouldnt stay here)<P>She wont speak to him. He says she has only one class a day but spends all day at school with Rick. Says she has only passionatley kissed him and held hiim, held hands on campus (BLECH BLECH TEENAGERS) and "made out all day in his car"<P>This guy is really nice. Very hurt and bewildered. Just like all of us. He has been alone with this for months. <P>Guess what though?<P>She left her first H when her D was 12 months old, married him when she was 18 months. Same S***. Couldnt stand the heat in marraige and found someone to make her feel good. Now its Ricks turn.<P>The plot thickens...<P>The children are not his, although he has been the only father they know. He found out through a friend of his in another state (close to TX) that OW is moving with this friend for a wile, and is planning on leaving her kids with Bio father while she gets set up in TX. <P>Shes following us.<P>She told her friend in another state not to tell her H. She told her H that Rick is moving to another state but will live with his brother. She must feel threatened that he may be following me.<P>She told her mom that she is marrying Richard.<P>PS He is so hurt as well. She told him that what the hell does the kids matter to him, as he is not their father. <P>This is like fatal attraction.<P>PSS Richard says he thinks he is a pyschiatrist. I told Rick..He wont say much. Dumbfounded at the prospect of her following him. At her giving up her kids to their bio dad too.<P>I am, all at once, angry, hurt , betrayed, jealous, confounded, curious, empathetic for her H, and feel so dam foolish for posting here about Rick was not talking to her anymore and being nicer to me. But he was just placating me. While he was busy necking with her all day. OW H has asked her several times to drop Rick, and she always said she would. But never did. He said the same thing too, she was just placating him. <P>Now she wont even talk to him, nor does she know he called me. He said he will drill her for more info tonight and call me. I made RIck swear on his honor and shake hands with me before I told him this not to tell her. I dont want things more difficult for her H.<BR>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited May 30, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited May 30, 2001).]

Learning,<P>I'm so sorry that you are having to deal with all of this. <P>Do you think that your H and OW had this planned all along?<P>I'm sure you probably don't even know what to think at this point.<P>This OW sounds a bit physco...doesn't care who she hurts or destroys in the process of getting what she wants. I hope your H sees this before it is too late.<P>Take Care.

Yeah... I would be suspicious of their motives all along. I mean didn't Rick want to finish school up there then suddenly agree to move to TX with you? I thought that was a little strange myself but was hoping for the best. I don't know what to tell you... just stay calm... the plot may thicken but keep your head... the OW's schemes may be blowing her plans out of the water by now... TRUST in the Truth... pray that the TRUTH of the entire situation would come out. Like step out of the boat onto the river banks and watch this unfold and head down towards the waterfall... don't get yourself caught up in the drama if at all possible.<P>------------------<BR>We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

quick note,<P>he just went to return movies..<P>she IS pyscho..to leave her kids with their bio dad that they dont even know.<P>he is totally shocked and doesnt know what to make of all this. says this all comes as a complete surprise to him, ans was wondering if her H is making this all up. but I told him that her H knows too much to make it up. It all makes sense.<P>He decided to move when he realized I was serious about going, and he cant be w/o the kids. also cant make the mortgage payment or help support the kids here alone.<P>suspicious? <P>I dont get it. what should I be suspicious of? I have asked him tonight if he has lead her on, if he has given her hope for the futute, he says no. (of course) Why then does she think its ok to move to TX? <P>I told him that I need some answers, cuz the way it seems now I may have to get a restraining order on her if she shows up there.<P>he said he doesnt have any!! he doesnt know where this is all coming from.. I said yeah right, you are "in love" with her, but are leaving the state and have made no plans about the future between you two. No not at all he said.<P>

I don't have any great advice for you, but just an observation.<P>It seems to me that much of the time, the WS's have two separate lives they lead. They are very compartmentalized. Your H could very well have (or is still) lead her on. And then when he is with you, he is just "forgeting that life"... if that makes sense.<P>I say that because I too had many conversations with OP's H. Much of what he said rang very true regarding my H...and what he would say etc. My H was married before me...(no kids) and I was NOT an affair. But, he told me all the same things about his first wife, that I heard he told OW about me... (from her H)... verbatim. So I have to believe her H. Unfortunately, my H and ow work together still... he is still very deep in a fog and makes it all about "close coworking bond and can't work without her (she is his assistant)... " and pretty much denies affair, though they have a son!!! GET REAL.<P>We are in the process of a D... I'm afraid for him that his fantasy life is going to have to be his reality... yet, even though the legal paperwork including issues related to the kids all make me the scapegoat.... if I ask him a question re: what I've read on legal documents...he acts like he is not responsible for saying it or doesn't know. <P>I wanted to move also. Even OW told her H that he would follow me and the kids. My H's mom got involved and they put a legal kabosh on that. So my H is back to status quo.<P>In your case, it seems you are in a much better position to truly use the principles we are learning here. The OW in your case does not sound too stable... (like many I guess)..So you just plan A and be the stable one. Help anchor him. He is following you right??? Is he going to be living with you??? Just assume he is. I'm afraid if you question him too much re: what he says to OW.....and that you get from OW's H.... it will just push him back to her. you know "Us against the world"... <P>That's how it seemed to work in my case. Every crisis... and there have been many.... seemed to strengthen their fantasy bond. My H's family have been very involved. Mostly on my side.... which also seemed to push him away. But, I spent too much time talking to them... and trying to get them to understand "it" all...and they just focus on the OW... <P>I guess any advice I would have would be to try to detach from the OW"s drama and focus on you and the kids... and plan A... BE the stable one.

Just something to think of.<BR>Since the woman is the WS to her own husband, isn't she also in a fog & not thinking clearly. She is probably lying to both men. She probably can't let go of your husband & is saying these things to convince herself it is true??<P>The information discussed is emotional more than factual. Don't treat it as the gospel, just be aware of it. Weigh the balances. Wouldn't she like nothing better than for you to get into a fight with your husband, mistrust him more thus pushing him away? Mabye she is freaking out that your H is moving away??<P>I am not encouraging denying any situation exists. But often it seems these doggone emotional reactions are what gets us in trouble. Stop & tell yourself that you are reacting to feelings & what is the real question here? What is the real source of my doubt etc? I hope it all works out better.<P>Gee, can you tell I'm into another book? This one is thick like a text book & is longer & harder to read. It is titled "Love is not Enough" by Dr Beck. He is the father so to speak of Cognitive Therapy. This book goes thru many case studies of relationships gone wrong & discusses methods used to solve them. I skipped to the chapter titled "Mortal Combat" myself!! I have a hard time remembering what I read though.

Oh Dara,<P>I’m sorry to hear the latest. As this episode plays out your strength will be tested many more times, I’m sure. I wish that I could get into Richard’s brain and figure out just what the hell is going on. <P>Step back and look at it from another angle for a moment. Richard can’t pay the mortgage and can’t be without the kids. Has to move. Richard is torn between the woman he loves and his family. OW decides she’ll move. Now Richard has his cake and he’s going to eat it to. Don’t be too quick to discount this possibility.<P>Last night you put Richard on the spot and he had to answer. He has shown his deceitful side before and may just be showing it again. Be careful darlin and protect your heart. Wish I had more to offer.<P>We now return you to our regular scheduled program “THE DAYS OF OUR LIVES”<P>((((((DARA))))))<BR><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

Dara, I'm inclined to view this as a positive development, although the title of your post is apropos, since this adds a considerable amount of stress to an already stressful situation.<P>As cantletgo suggests, it is probably not appropriate to take the OW's reported plans as gospel truth. And the OW's husband really has no way of knowing what the OW and your husband are actually doing with their days. But even ignoring these aspects of what the OW's husband told you, this new perspective provides enough disturbing revelations that it may well serve to poke a (larger?) hole in your husband's fog. It's hard to see the situation any more as two unhappy and vulnerable people who got sucked into an "inappropriate" relationship before they could realize what had happened. The OW has established a history, a <I>pattern</I>, that should make any sensible man run fast and far.<P>

Oh blech... <P>You know what? During affair number... um... two... yes, it was two...with my ex-H... I had OW's H contact me... and it was GAWD-AWFUL!! I had already had pre-affair #1 Pool Lady contact me to tell me to tell my then-H to stay away from her (no affair there, just my then-H with a raging hard-on every time she came around, and inappropriate flirting... but I digress...). See Dara, this is just a step in the (yes) already stressful situation. Doesn't mean you should leave.<P>If you truly DO want your marriage, this should make you fight harder. Sorry, but it's true.<P>I have SOOOOO been there, dearheart, and it SUCKS A BIG ONE . Honey, you MUST decide, aside from the extraneous circumstances (outside forces, like this man calling you)... DO YOU WANT YOUR HUSBAND, OR DO YOU NOT?<P>Let me know what you think...<P>(((((DARA)))))<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Hi Guys,<P>Sheryl, the question is not whether or not I want him. You know I do, so does he. Gnome I see this as a positive thing as well. Its just a hell of alot to digest right now. I dont take it as the gospel truth, but she is going behind her H back to make arrangments to go to another state and stay with a friend and then leave her children there.<P>We discussed last night about how her M came aboutt to begin with. Wasnt happy with H #1, made a 'friend' with current H while still married, then married him six months after her D. She is doing the same to him now.<P>ps it is poking a hole too. He cannot believe she would leave her kids. He cannot believe she told her mom that she is getting married to him.<p>[This message has been edited by Learning as I go (edited May 31, 2001).]

Hi everyone,<P>Got a little time before H comes home.<P>Great analogy Bill, these are the days of my lives..<BR>I told that to Rick, said all we need is some incest, an old rich man, a cute gardner, and maybe an accidental death.<P>I asked him last night in light of all this if we can think of a way to prevent her from going without letting her know that we know. I asked him first if he would ever be interested in her if she went, or if he gave her any hope of their future, he said absoloutley not. I explained to him how much he has hurt her husband, and how he is the reason, the only reason for her leaving him. There may be other issues between us, but not them.<P>He is just stunned at all of this. Says he just wants to get away from this mess. I said that it will not go away if she follows. The right thing to do is to help preserve any hope of their marraige. If she is already telling her family that she is going to marry him, and is planning on leaving her kids for him even though he has given her (supposedly) no hope for their future than who knows what she is capable of. Hurting me? <P>That its not fair to her husband, its not fair to her kids to take away the only dad they know. Her husband says he thought they were fine until she started school. No marraige probs before that. Good communication.<P>I told Rick the only thing I can think of is to totally break her heart. Be cold and cruel to prevent her from following us. Its so stinking funny, how she had to tell her husband that he is not following me, he will be living with his brother. She must feel threatened by us.<P>

I am so stinking angry about this. His dam lying and deceit, stringing me along just to keep me quiet while he is with her. I am so pissed right now that I dont want to even think about being with him. Ow H said that she tells him they spend everyday together. It pisses me off to think that he spends his days holding her hand, kissing her then comes home to me. And since his BS phonecall to me about a month ago he has been nice to me and even affectionate. What was he thinking? Was he envisioning her while he has sex with me? How can he be "madly in love with her" and screw me?

Dara,<P>I know that this is so difficult but please try to take your mind off of things for a little while. You have been through so much lately that you really deserve a break. <P>Thinkin of ya and prayin for ya!<P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostHusband:<BR><B>Dara,<P>I know that this is so difficult but please try to take your mind off of things for a little while. You have been through so much lately that you really deserve a break. <P>Thinkin of ya and prayin for ya!<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Easier said than done Bill.<P>

Dara, just because the OW's husband <I>says</I> or even <I>believes</I> that his wife and your husband are spending their days together doesn't mean that's the truth. I know that you have reason not to trust your husband, but please do not automatically take the OW's husband's word over his.<P>Another thing. It is not fair of you to tell your husband that he is the sole reason for the OW leaving her husband. In fact, that is entirely <I>her</I> decision and he is <I>not</I> responsible for that. He is responsible only for his own actions.<BR>

Dara,<P>Listen to Gnome... very wise!!<P>(((((Dara)))))

he has admitted he spends his days with her. even after he told me he would quit. admitted that he lied to me telling me he would quit just to placate me.<P>everything has been lies. and with these new developments, all he can say is his standard responses:what else do you want me to say? or, i just want to get away from this, same crap ..<P>he wont talk about this at all. i told him i now believe everything has just been lies to keep me with hope. so he wouldnt have to see me depressed. i feel used

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>he has admitted he spends his days with her. even after he told me he would quit. admitted that he lied to me telling me he would quit just to placate me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, he bounces between telling the truth and telling lies borne of addiction and fog. I hope he understands that earning your trust is going to take a while.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>everything has been lies. and with these new developments, all he can say is his standard responses:what else do you want me to say? or, i just want to get away from this, same crap ..</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Er...how is this crap? What else <I>can</I> he say? I'm inclined to believe him when he says he wants to get away from this. That's actually a Biblical tactic, you know: "Flee youthful lusts". Hanging around temptation in a macho effort to demonstrate strength of character is foolish.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>he wont talk about this at all. i told him i now believe everything has just been lies to keep me with hope. so he wouldnt have to see me depressed. i feel used</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Under these circumstances, of <I>course</I> he won't talk about it. You've told him that you won't believe anything he says - or at least not anything positive. Those are ground rules which guarantee that nothing good can come of talking.<BR>

Dara, I am very very confused...<P>On May 31, 2001 at 02:12 PM you posted a message that sounded quite confident and even like you had reached some kind of understanding about what is going on. Only four minutes later, at 2:16 PM, you are posting in a rage about his lies?<P>I know that this kind of thing is a terrible roller coaster - believe me, I've been on this ride for a long time - but what could possibly have happened to elicit such a drastic change in your attitude in 4 minutes?<P>Just so you know, I am with those who believe that the OW is a looney who would make up whatever she thinks might hurt you and makes sure that you hear it. And you are playing right into her hands. Even if you believe it is all true (which I don't, not for a second), your reaction must be making her positively ecstatic. You are pushing him away with your reaction, making your presence a difficult place to be in. And you are pushing him right back at her. You're just making her day!<P>Think about this: who might believe she stands to gain the most if you believe this story and push your husband right out the door?<P>Don't give her the victory this easily.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Gosh Dara, Terri and Gnome really seem to know what they're talking about. I'd be inclined to listen closely to these sages. I mean, EVERYONE has offered sound reason and hopeful advice. I'd just want these two to be my counselors (pssst...you guys taking any more clients?).<P>Nell