<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dreambaby:<BR><B> I was so lonely I contacted and old boyfriend and started an affair about 2 months ago.......... We both are married and he has no small children. He would love my daughter and be a good husband. We have much more in common than my husband and I do and I am just so confused as you must be. ANy words of advice or comments are ewlcome.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dreambaby,<BR>I had to take a deep breathe before I wrote this - Are you serious? Not only did you take it upon yourself to marr your marriage, you went after another married man? And you wonder why you are so confused? Does the word "sin" mean anything to you?<P>And you can really ask how something like the relationship you formed out of deceipt, lies and the future pain it will inflict on others, can have a chance to succeed? Oh boy, you better pull over because the fog you are traveling in is so deep you can cut it with a knife.<P>I'm sorry if this sounds mean, but wake up. What so many of the WS don't realize is that where their (your) marriage is, is as much your fault as it is your spouse's! But not only that, you are not only responsible for your share of the problems, you have gone out and made even more of a mess to ANOTHER family no-less. Sure your new "boyfriend" has some responsibility in all this, but from what the way you posted it seems apparent that "you" contacted "him".<P>And I guess you both do have something in common - you both are good at lieing and cheating.<P>You are treading in very dangerous waters... I pray for you and your family (as well as the family of your boyfriend). Can't even give you any advice - don't even no where to start....<P>sorry,<BR>Mike<P><P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

[duplicate]<p>[This message has been edited by SoTired2000 (edited June 05, 2001).]

Wow, I think Caitlin likes me.<P>I am only suggesting that one not be pushed to comprimise everything to restore a marriage. PF refered to a "fling with someone she met at the bar." This does change things as it indicates where a spouses heart is at. I have been at the BS of an emotional affair. I changed everything to win my spouse back and was successful. Sometime I wonder if I did the right thing.

To furthre explain my situation ... I met my BF 12 years ago we dated for 3 years. Then I met my current H and we started dating and got married 8 months later. I stopped seeing my BF when I started dating my cutrrent H. I have never stopped thinking about my BF and he has never forgot about me. I am not saying my husband is bad or wrong, I just don't love him anymore. I am mostly at fault I understand that. I just don't love my husband anymore. I know I will hurt him tremendously to leave him, but is it worth it to stay with someone you don't love. Doesn't it give them a false sense of love and life. I just wanted to let painforever know that sometimes the BF/GF is out of your life, but not out of your mind. Staying in a loveless marriage can't be right don't you think we need love - both giving and receiving.

Love is not something that just happens to you. Happiness is not something that can be pursued (our Constitution notwithstanding). A relationship does not stand or fall on what you have in common.<P>Love is a choice, and acting out of love will engender the feelings. True happiness comes from within and is much more satisfying than the ephemeral pleasure that arises from circumstance. The strength of a relationship derives not just from how you are compatible, but also from how you complement each other.<P>I'm not going to disagree with you, dreambaby, about whether a "lost love" remains in the heart or mind forever (although how much of your feelings are love and how much are addiction is an extremely important question). You may be right about that. But true love doesn't mean following one's feelings. It means doing the right thing. What self-respecting person would value a gift paid for by the betrayal of an innocent?<BR>

I may be completely out of line with this statement, but I think that many of us, myself included stumbled across the wrong website. I would assume that 90% of the people here are the ones who were hurt, and did not do the hurting. Only we know our situation best and know what we have done, right or wrong. Only we can judge ourselves. It's very easy for someone who has been hurt and left to judge the ones who come here seeking advice or understanding to how we feel. Unloved, lost and confused and ready to leave a life that we are miserable with. We will not receive that here, and that is okay. <BR>I most certainly do not feel that if you are unhappy with your marriage you should just throw in the towel and walk. Not at all. But we all come to a point that we must do something. We can either justify why we SHOULD stay for whatever reasons. But this is not a practice run. Life is life and were not going to get another shot at it. Why live a life being miserable? There is not 1 reason that will justify that. We must be true to ourselves, nomatter how much it hurts, or how others may not understand. Until you walk a mile in my shoes, do not judge me. We can only try and fight like hell to make our marriages work. And in the end if were satisfied with our effort, and we are still unhappy and we understand that no, this is not going to work, well, it's time to leave. Life is too short to try and force two people to be together, wether they are married or not. The world would be a wonderful place if divorce did not exist. But it does. Things happen and mistakes are made. But were all human, we all need to be loved as well as to love. <P>So, with all of that rambling, one more thing, I cannot force myself to feel something that is not there. I cannot force my husband to love me the way that I need to be loved. I cannot pretend..I must be brave enough to stand up and be honest with myself and others, and I think that many come here trying to do the same...and they are bashed for it. <P>I do not know engineer Bob and have only seen these posts on this thread, but I completely agree with him. painful and ugly? Of course. But it's reality, and it's about time we all face it. Wether we are being left or leaving or trying to work things out. We all deserve to be respected to how we feel. Believe me, if I could lose the feelings that I have had and do have, and go on about life and smile and be happy and content with my life, I would. But again, I would be betraying myself. Living for someone else. And when it comes down to it, call me selfish. I do care for my husband, and want the best for him. But in the end, I need to be true to myself. What is best for me. What is working and what is not. <P>Most of you will completely disagree with me, and maybe a part of me hopes am wrong. But in the end, I will not be the one who is still waiting around 20 yrs later for my husband to decide to be the man that I married. I won't be the bitter one. I've tried and tried. I know what I have done. No one else can call me a failure except myself. You get to that point where, you must chooose. You can either sit back and accept the life that you are living, and be miserable and try to make the best of it, because after all you DID decide to get married. Or you can work your butt off trying to fix the problems, trying to work together but eventually, you must choose. But I don't want to be 50 yrs old and regretting my life either. Marriage vows are broken everyday. When I made my vows, I completely believed my husband would be the man that he presented himself to be. Along the way, that man was lost and he can't find him nor does he want to look for him. I will not punish myself for the rest of my life. I will not. <P>I will stop this rambling, but I just wanted those here that are in the same corner as I am, your not alone, at all. Like I said, most people here are the ones who have been left and it's impossible for them to understand where your coming from. Your not alone, there are too many of us out there. Gripping for answers, and there are none. Only in your heart will you find those answers. Be brave and do what is best. FIght for happiness, wether with your spouse or not. Your not a horrible person because your marriage failed. And I think that most people here try to make us think that...<P>Again, this is the wrong website for many here..I will be looking for support somewhere else. I just wanted to share my feelings...<P>

Jenniffer and other WS's,<P>You are NOT at the wrong website, I promise! <P>I came here in 1999, as the spouse who betrayed (a WS). Yes, I had some other experience, since I was also a BS several times over... but... I was here to help my marriage because of MY infidelity.<P><I>Let me tell you what I learned</I>:<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><B> I was the only one who could change me.<P> I was responsible for my affair.<P> I wanted to restore my marriage despite my then-H's affairs.<P> I deserved better than some OM who was with someone else (he was living with a long-term girlfriend).<P> I was better than the whore, cheater, loser that I thought I was.<P> I could be a success no matter how my marriage ended up.</B></UL><P><I>Let me tell you what happened</I>:<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><B> I stopped the affair but kept working with the OM.<P> My then-H had revenge affairs.<P> I lost 100 pounds and got very ill.<P> I got divorced.<P> While the divorce was finalizing, I met someone else, and now am engaged to him.<BR></B></UL><P>Now, my life is hardly MB-worthy... but in a way it is. Here's why: I learned, the very hard way, what NOT to do. I share what I've learned with others. I plan to have another long-term marriage, hopefully for the rest of my life (it is my plan) by using the principles used on MB.<P>Let's go through this icky thing together, okay??<P>WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited June 06, 2001).]

Thank you Thank you! I just felt like I had to say all of that...thank you for understanding where I was coming from. <BR>I may have come across like I was/am having an affair..but that is not my case at all. Husband suffers from depression and has denied help for 2 years...I am at the end of my rope with him and now, he wants help. I think I crossed over that line, I feel nothing for him. <P>But, thank you for sharing your story. In the last year, I have lost 60 lbs, not from trying, from being so depressed and hopeless. I am still losing, but it's not hurting me..I could stand to lost 10 or so more...<BR>I am happy that your "story" has a happy ending..I wish for us all to have one.

Surprising as it may seem, Jenniffer, I don't disagree with you, and I don't think what you have said in this last post contradicts MB principles. However, our enormous capacity for self-delusion means that we don't always see our own situations with the clarity that an outsider might.<P>When someone says something we don't like, that may be when it's most important for us to listen...<P><BR>Er, make that your second-to-last post (although there's nothing to disagree with in your last post either).<BR><p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited June 06, 2001).]

Hi Jenniffer, <P>Please forgive me for thinking that you were a WS, that was a misunderstanding. <P>I'm so glad my words gave you some comfort.<P>My ex-H was also very, very depressive, and I finally felt like you did -- I simply could not go one step further with him.<P>There is another poster, Nellie, who is standing for her marriage (she is not a religious person, this is of her own personal choosing, not God-inspired) to a very depressive person. Her H left her and their six children, and she is not letting go, although he is living with the OW (I think it's been about two years).<P>I say that to illustrate that you can find support no matter which way you decide to go (divorce, like me, or "standing" like Nellie).<P>Please continue to post, and read all over the place... <P>I wish you continued healing... don't go too fast on that weight loss (congrats, even though it sucks how you did it!)... I did just like you, needed to lose the weight, but royally messed up my colon in the process (and that isn't pretty!).

Jenniffer, <P>Marriage is an act of commitment. You made a free choice to be with your spouse for better or worse, till death do you part (or something close to that). Now, you are miserable, and you want out because life is too short. Right?<P>OK, Jenniffer, now I'm going to use my silver bullet on this one, and I'd like to see how you respond. <P>What if the source of your misery happened to be not your spouse but a child? What if you had a child (i.e. made a commitment to raise a child) and then decided that the hourly feedings, the diapers, etc, was for the birds and that you were miserable and that you deserved a better life? Would you feel OK to say to the child "sorry Junior, you make me miserable, I deserve better, so see ya"??<P>I presume your answer would be "no"... So, tell me why the difference? Is it because your child is related to you by blood and your spouse is not? OK, then what about an adopted child?<P>To me, marriage is no different than parenting. There are ups and downs, but during the downs you need to find ways to make yourself happy instead of running away.<P>Marriage is not a big fun party, where if the fun stops, it's time to move on. You should not depend on your H for making you happy, nor can you let him make you miserable. Only you can make yourself miserable, if you allow yourself to do so.<P>Believe me, my W could have written your eloquent post, full of sorrow, misery, and pain. She did bail out on the marriage (while also making sure to put a knife through my heart by starting up an affair)... Well, guess what? She is still miserable, probably more so than before. She is now finding out for herself that her misery was self induced, and that while I certainly was not the perfect husband, I was not the source of her misery. She was.<P>Anyway, Jenniffer, to paraphrase Mr. Clinton, I feel your pain. I just suspect that you are misdirecting your efforts at self improvement by trying to find someone to blame for your pain. Look inward, and you will find unlimited strength. Then work on yourself, become the person you want to be, and your H will most likely follow.<P>Good luck,<P>AGG

Very interesting topic. I don't have a lot of time to reply after reading the whole thing, but we all have something to offer here. We all can learn from each other and I hope Jennifer that you find peace. I agreed with that last post you wrote. There were so many replies on this thread I can't keep them all straight.<P>I'm curious about the original poster, PF, if you left your wife and then met gf, then she is not OW, she is just your ex gf. If you left wife for her, she is OW. Which is she? <P>You have a lot to offer to many people here too and I hope you don't get offended by the differences in opinion. I probably haven't taken the "traditional" MB path either here, but I tried to save my marriage. It didn't work. <P>I do think that it sounds like you are living with wife, emotionally attatched to gf/ow, again hard to decide what she is because I don't know which one, but if you met her after you left wife, and she is gf, i don't think it's fair of you to contact her while with wife. If anything else, she has been in pain, I'm sure also, because of this.<P>If she is gf and not ow, I'd also say, at what cost are you giving up your happiness for wife? I admire you completely for staying, and you may surprise yourself and this could work! The tools are here to help you. <P>But pick one of the two women and be honest to them both. I think your wife deserves to know your real intentions too. I do know some people who chose to stay married, only for the kids, and its a living arrangement thing. It seems to work for them, but it can be awkward too.<P>This post is so long, I don't feel I'm making sense any more, I'll check back and see if I can get clarification on the ow/gf issue and what point your at now.<P>Someone estimated this place represents about 90% BS and 10% WS. I bet there are even less WS than that but I hope you keep posting. THis place is for everyone.<P>Good luck, Dana<BR>

Jennifer I totally agree with you. We are not blaming our spouses, we are just saying that we do not feel that our life need to be dectated by what our spouses wants. Marriage does mean something to us - we just don't feel that we should be unhappy just to make someone else happy. And even if we do stay are they really happy or just comfortable because of the way things are. Jennifer, you make alot of sense to me.<P>My husband is not a bad guy, he really hasn't done anything wrong. He is just very withdrawn, but yet wants to know what I am doing all the time and ALWAYS worries about money. Financially we are fine, but he never wants to do anything because it costs money. I work hard FT and am going back to school thru distnce education and run all over with our daughter. So going out to dinner, or a movie or a nice vacation isn't too much to ask for when we have plenty in the savings account. He does a good job with our daughter and I am thankful for that. I feel like we're more roommates than spouses. I have tied to do things that would mean something to him. Plan a weekend away (But he cancelled it at the last minute - he thought it was a waste of money) I buy him lovey cards and leave them in his briefcase or in his car - he never buys any for me. He's there physically but not emotionally. I want to be with someone who wants to do things and meet people and WANTS to be with me. I don't think this makes me a bad person. I don't think my wants are all that out of line. If people were honest - that's basically what we all want. I am not walking away without trying - I have tried and will continue to try. But I am keeping other options open because you can only try so long when it's one sided.

Wow. I am speechless, believe that one? I don't even know what to say, which may be a good thing?...<P>I think that maybe, just maybe...that I never felt those strong bonds that most of you have had. No, of course I would not just leave a child if they were causing me grief. But I don't feel that way with my husband. It's a long long story, and why we got married, well, who knows. But we never had those ties, we never had the bond that so many of you mention. My husband admits it too..we got married because it was the thing to do, we wanted to settle down and build a life together. We rushed it and didn't think. And since then, we both have been paying for it dearly. We obviously did not take our vows as serious as we should have. I hate to admit all of this, it's the truth. I am not proud of that, but it's the truth. <P>I will post more in a sec..but what I wanted to say, which might be so far off the map but, if I had a child (no children) and they were above age and causing me somuch heartache that I could not eat nor sleep..after awhile, tough love has to come into play. Child/spouse//parent does not have the right to make your life miserable just because you love them. No right at all. Maybe am just stretching for this one..but that is how I feel. Maybe if I was a mother, I would feel differently. But am not, and infertility was also a key problem in our relationship. Too many things....<P>But I do get what you all are saying..I do. With or without the fog..many things have truth in them...but like I said, every situation is different. <P>Thank you..

The point, <B>Dreambaby</B> is this: you and Jenniffer differ because infidelity has not entered her marriage! <P>You said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am not walking away without trying - I have tried and will continue to try. But I am keeping other options open because you can only try so long when it's one sided.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You cannot "try" in your marriage when there is someone else in the picture. You will always find fault with your spouse when comparing him to your affair partner - ALWAYS. He's in a no-win situation! <P>Leaving options open? You must work on your marriage first, and then look at the options if the marriage cannot be restored...<P>Please, get rid of the OM and give your marriage a chance. If you truly cannot stay married, then divorce... but don't string your H along... that's very cruel.

Jenniffer, you are doing good, you really are! You are <B>thinking</B>, and that is waaaay better than what most of our spouses did, when they shacked up with a replacement first and then told us that there are problems in the marriage... So a pat on the back for you!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jenniffer:<BR><B>if I had a child (no children) and they were above age and causing me so much heartache that I could not eat nor sleep..after awhile, tough love has to come into play. Child/spouse//parent does not have the right to make your life miserable just because you love them.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree completely! And that is exactly the answer! If your child was making you miserable, you would take steps to draw up some boundaries to stop the pain. You wouldn't <B>leave them</B>! Same with the spouse. Draw up some boundaries. Understand what is creating the pain. Protect yourself from the pain. But don't try to run away from it, unless there is absolutely no escape, (e.g. if you are being physically abused).<P>You have been somewhat vague about what is causing your misery. Is it because you don't want to share, or because you don't know? Can you identify the specific actions that your H is taking which are causing you pain? You have to realize that just saying "I'm miserable" is a sign that <B>you</B> have problems, which won't disappear if you run away. If you want to quit the marriage (and I already said that without kids in the picture, I am not completely anti-divorce), you should at least be able to verbalize what actions are causing your misery, and then see if you can put an end to these actions by setting up boundaries. If you try it and it fails, you've probably earned your right out of the marriage. So, would you tell us what do you see that is making you miserable?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>infertility was also a key problem in our relationship.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can relate to that, we had to go through that as well... Puts a real strain on things, but is there more??<P>AGG

I don't condone adultery, but, I do think it is brought on from problems in the marriage. My first husband left me for someone else. It was a betrayal and I begged him to get counseling. He refused and we divorced. In hindsight, I'm glad if he felt that way that he didn't come back to me out of guilt or because we had a son together. If he had and three years later we were living in separate bedrooms and barely talking and I could see the pain in his eyes, I would be ready for him to leave. Your girlfriend aside, if you are THAT miserable in your marriage, then I don't believe in staying in a situation like that for the kids or because you made vows to stay together no matter what. I suggest that you get marriage counseling and if after that you still feel the same, it's time to move on. You both deserve better and so do your children.

dreambaby...<P>I'll say it again...<P>You have to be honest with your H. You will never change the state of your feelings/marriage without him knowing. Trust me. Our stories sound very similar. I thought the quiet evenings at home were comforting... H thought they were boring....etc... I did not know that he felt differently then he was acting. Therefore, I was blindsided by the A.<P>If you can't be truthful to him, then your not being truthful to yourself. You have to state the problems then work together to fix them. One person cannot fix problems.<P>Go back and read the articles... do the EA survey... use the tools here. We don't want to hurt you..but you have to understand you are saying all of the same things our BS have said to us. It is a very hard pill to swallow... Remember we are here to rebuild our marriages, not help someone else destroy theirs!!<P>You must tell your husband...leave the OP and work on your marriage. If you've done all you can, then go your seperate ways. Only then should you see another person. <P>The grass is always greener....

Hi everyone, how are you guys doing? I feel like I am writing an email &#61514;. The recent responses have been great. Jennifer, I have been to a few websites and I must say this is by far the most understanding even if 90% are BS. I went to DOL and was trashed, when I retaliated, I was called all sorts of names and I was at my lowest then. You are right everyone’s case is different, if in your mind u believe that u have tried enough and think that it’s time to go then it may very well be. I know I don’t love W and quite convinced the M is dead and I feel that I could be truly happy with someone else but for now it feels like the staying is the right thing to do. In a way it’s to know whether the feelings I have for GF is real, I owe W and kids this much to at least try, maybe to prove to W and others that M is long dead. But you are right she can’t force me to love her and I can’t force myself that either. But I know for sure I am not going to wait another 5 years or even lesser than.I don’t pretend I love her, I told her I can’t say the words. I know the frustration you feel , everyone here is telling you it will likely work if u try hard enough, if u have patience, that u r the cause of ur misery (this is true), u can find happiness inside etc but I was happy when I was on my own, and blissfully happy with GF.<P>Dana, thanks for ur post, to clarify thing..I left to work abroad more than 2 years ago it was not a legal seperation. I made it very clear though why I needed to leave. She didn’t stop me. I went home on average about 4 times a year for about 3 to 5 weeks at a time. I either stayed at home (separate bedrooms even now) or at relatives. In that period W and I have talked about the possibility of divorce a few times. It was while I was away that I met my GF. I never intended to fall in love. She made me feel like I can do anything, made me proud of myself, just seeing her face made me happy. We connected in a lot of different ways, she brought the old me out. She fit into everything I ever wanted, mind, body and heart. You are right I am emotionally attached to her, I feel like I am betraying her instead of W. In a twisted way I am risking my happiness for the pain W feels now. W never really knew how deep my bond was with GF. W never asked me how what and why in regards to my feeling. She goes on like nothing ever happen. Simply erase everything in last 5 years. I wonder how can she do that? Btw what the issue on OW/GF thing? If it’s about wanting to keep 2 women – nope. After all I did ask W for a divorce. I am glad u r now happy with ur SO, I wish I would be there one day.<P>AGG I don’t think its that simple to equate love for spouse to child. As a parent, I love my child unconditionally eternally, I can’t help it, it’s natural, it doesn’t fade, have a high or low, its constantly the same. And It’s not about blood. A H and W have different needs, feelings for one other can change. Sometimes I wonder as a BS or just a S, if your partner don’t love you any more, how could you insist that they should stay? <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by connorsmom:<BR><B>dreambaby...<P><BR>You must tell your husband...leave the OP and work on your marriage. If you've done all you can, then go your seperate ways. Only then should you see another person. <P>The grass is always greener....</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok, so here I am, I have tried everything to comvince my wife tolet go of the OM, I am doing my best to restore what I feel I did to cause her ahving an affair, but I still meet with constant resistance from my wife....<P>I most probably feel very much like the poor guys wife that started this thread..............