What if u just don’t love ur spouse anymore?

Marriage Builders

At this moment in time I don’t really know what I am doing. In last 4 months I have felt the most excruciating pain in my life, never felt so desolate or lost before. 2 years ago I took the opportunity to live away from her working abroad. I asked my wife for a divorce in 1/2001 because i) have been in a terribly unhappy marriage for the last 5 years it was inevitable ii) thought it was what she wanted too and iii) met another person while i lived away who is very special to me. Reaction from my wife completely shocked me. All of a sudden she tells me that she loves me deeply and wants to be with me. Why now after all those years? I have tried many times to work things out with her , even went for counselling when she had a short fling with someone she met at the bar. I have told her that I don’t love her and loved someone else. She begged me to stay and even if it wasn’t for her for our kids. Our relationship was not abusive – in the sense that we don’t scream or fight all the time, it is tolerable but cold and empty as anything. I was never really there in mind and spirit with her for the last few years, I just shut down. I am only happy with the kids. Anyway I feel so guilty I said I would stay. Its been 3 months since and my heart aches everyday.Telling my GF that I had to leave her was the most painful thing I have done in my life. Thinking of life never seeing her again made me ill, as I trully love her. Everyday I wonder what she is doing, if she's happy etc.I am now back home. I don't have direct contact with her at all but have called her friends twice to see how she's doing. Before I left I told her that I knew we will be together and I promised I will be back. I told her to get on with her life but to remember what I said at the back of her mind. Besides my children its probably that’s the only thing that keeps me going. I told her I had to do this, I don’t know why, that the decision was almost unconscious. She tells me that if my love is true and we were meant to be it will happen. I never wanted me and W to end up like this. But deep down i don't think i want to love her now that i am given the chance. I know she loves me but i can't help it. Not after what i felt with my GF. Perhaps staying in this marriage is wrong. I do not know what i am trying to prove. Has anyone been in this situation or something similar with some advice to spare? Thank you.

I don't have the answers or advice that your looking for..but figured I would post to let you know, your not alone. While, there are no "affairs or cheating" that I know of, our situaution is similar because I too have been very unhappy in my short marriage. My husband also has been very unhappy. I don't honestly think that counseling will help us, since I feel nothing. There are a million reasons why I should leave him. But nothing will change the fact that I feel nothing. No kids, just a mortgage. Both young and unhappy. The thing is, he can live like this. His exact words "My life has always sucked, so I didn't expect much better." I don't really know exactly how he feels, but I bet if I told him I was leaving, he would fight it. But he;s not willing to change or work on things. He is very insecure and has smothered me. So much that, well, I feel nothing. I know that I will most likely be bashed for what am about to say, but am being honest. To stay with your wife for the sake of your children and out of pity for her, well, it's wrong. Life is too short and precious to be so miserable. BElieve me, your children will be better off growing up in a divorced household than one where the parents don't "love" each other in a healthy and happy way. She may scream and cry and carry on and beg you to stay, but you know in your heart what is best. What is best for you. Nobody wants to hurt anyone. Especially someone that you have loved. But you both deserve to be happy. And if your not happy, then do something about it. I wish you the best...

OMG! Please don't make any hasty decisions. You sound SO much like my H. And I have acted some like your wife, except I never went with anyone else. Whether you can see it or not, you are depressed & I'm guessing you have not coped well with difficulties in your life (job, education, family etc). You talk about having a GF. But that is not reality. You DONT know each others true colors. That takes alot of time, years. You were only seeing the best side of each other. "The fog" as they call it here. Cut the ties NOW. If she is with you as a married man, what makes you think she wouldnt move on from you after she finds something better later? Just cause she says so? Bull. Go talk to some guy friend you can confide in. Post here. Find a good counselor. There is no shame in that. Whomever you spoke to before was not the right person for you. Do it for YOU, and if your wife is willing to talk to the same person at different times, great! Or can you do the phone thing with Steve Harley here? His philosophy on all this is very accurate.I rarely verbalized that I love my H. I assumed he knew by my daily actions. He did not like my advise about his stressful situations & blamed me when the outcome did not go his way. We became withdrawn from each other. When I told him I didnt want to talk about it anymore is when he started talking to a female coworker. But I honest to God love him with my whole heart & soul. I told him recently I do love him, but he refuses to believe me, as do you your wife. I am trying to change my actions, by not cursing & yelling. He had complained about me not keeping up the house, cooking, helping him with bigger projects, interfering in his work ! (by wanting him to stop working at lunch time) etc. This is just superficial. I think he believes this, but deep down there is another reason. I have been reading alot of library books on relationships. I remember little warning signs leading to this, that I did not recognize at the time.My H also told me we are not compatible & whats done is done etc & that we are nothing to each other. I dont believe that. People can change, they do change.We are always evolving. It just takes time. I know it wouldnt be the same but it can be better. We just need education from a counselor on how to interact better, or on the right questions to ask ourselves to look deep in our hearts & make new discoveries. My H says he tried to tell me we were in trouble, a few times did tell me "we'll give this another try". But I thought he was nuts & ignored the latter. He actually did not tell me in words because all we did was argue. & when he said another try stuff I ignored it because I did not realize the significance of the words or that we really were in such dire straits. I never saw any change in his behaviour & never clued in to the fact that I needed to change mine until NOW. TRUST ME! I really think it took this withdrawal & pain to bring the problems to the forefront & to you guys attention. I think your wife, like me did not know the trouble you were in until you started talking this way, (fairly recently ?). PLEASE PLEASE give it time. Go find a good counselor right away who can help you discover yourselves & each other again.My H moved into the other bedroom. We do everything seperately & barely speak except to ask if the other checked the mail. Neither of us are eating much, or getting proper sleep. I feel sick & cannot function. I cant think of anything else. He is my world. I am sorry I was not the friend & wife he wanted me to be in recent times. But I take responsibility for my own actions & do not blame him for the part I played in our downfall. I am changing & learning & plan on ging to counseling myself. I am insecure in my own ways. I pray that my H will give this chance now that I actually realize the trouble we're in. I will do anything to save our marriage. But he is depressed even though he cannot see this himself. He needs help in coping. He wanders around the house like a zombie half the time, where he used to love to do things. My heart is breaking & I cry myself to sleep. I go & smell his pillow when he's left, just to smell his hair & feel like hes near me. He has not so much as touched my hand in almost a month. We are both alone & heartbroken.But please, don't be macho. Needing help & feeling vulnerable is okay, its normal. I know guys dont talk about such things but its true. Please give your wife a chance. I beg you! Give yourselves the opportunity to work on your marriage to make it better. Your history together has to mean something. Think back to when you were dating, & got married. Those high feelings are great, but that is infatuation. Real love goes very deep. This is what you & your wife once shared. It is living with the harsh times as well as the good. God, I could write you a manuscript but your post is so close to home for my situation that I am shaking.Read all on this website about his & her needs, lovebusting etc. & since you had a GF I think you should read "Surving An Affair". I have 3 other books I'd like you to look at. __Emotionally Free - by David Viscott MD. (especially the chapter on stess & the introduction to depression symptoms.) This would be for yourself. I think you will see alot of yourself in the feelings described. __Relationship Rescue - Phil McGraw. This book is about looking to yourself & your feelings, ideas, wants, needs, etc & contribution to the relationship. No fluff straight talk about working on yourself first & bringing this new behaviour into the relationship. I just bought this one & the corresponding workbook. I hope to God I can discover myself & act better & that H will recognise this. __Why Marriages Succeed or Fail & how you can make yours last by John Gottman. This one gives examples of case studies & questions that were asked & solutions reached. More along couseling approach. But points out some good things about where marriages start to have problems.Please don't file for Divorce or anything like that yet. It is a drastic step & theres no going back. It should only be the last alternative after you've tried counseling (I think you guys should maybe meet C together once, but then start with individual sessions & goals.) A separation would be the 2nd step, but NO contact with wife, kids or GF. Do everything yourself, cooking, laundry, bills EVERYTHING ON YOUR OWN. No falling back on the convenient GF. You likely have difficulties in life that will not go away just because your wife is gone.

Jenniffer,No bashing from me, but you are comparing apples and oranges. You are childless, and there are no other people involved, right? So I think if you give your marriage a real effort (using the Harley principles) and still decide that your marriage is beyond hope, then I don't think anyone is going to bash you if you two get a divorce (at least I won't).However, painforever is not going to get off the hook so easily. He brought children into this world, and the kids deserve more than their parents saying "oh well, I'm bored, I found a new toy, so I'm outta here". Sorry, not on this site...Painforever, I am on the receiving end of the "gift" you bestowed on your W. I was told one year ago this week by my W that she was "not in love with me". It took me three months to figure out that she was sleeping with a coworker... Like you, she was shocked that I didn't simply walk away, but fought for my marriage.Let me tell you something; the pain you have inflicted on your W is something you will never comprehend. Actually, you will, if and when someone does this to you. Regardless, you have hurt your W beyond anything you can imagine, but guess what? If you continue down your path (and your W continues to fight for the marriage), in a year's time you will be the miserable one, and your W will be happy and confident. Why? Because happiness comes from your actions; your actions have been and are wrong, while your W is doing the honorable thing. When you look back at yourselves in a year, you'll be surprised.My advice to you is to lose the GF, and to honor your commitments. Forget the "I deserve to be happy" crap. You'll be happy if you do the right thing, not if you p*ss all over the close people in your life.I am currently happier than I've been in years, while my W, so intent on finding her happiness at all costs, is a pathetic lost soul... Good luck to both of you!AGG[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited May 31, 2001).]

Hi there, You are deep in withdrawl which is a very miserable, depressing time. I am the BS and my H felt much like you do.....although at this time he (away from the OW ) is now very happy. But... the months when he came back and he went into withdrawl were absolute H#$L for me , and I'm sure your W is experiencing the same thing.Please get some counseling, Steve H is great . There is light at the end of this tunnel. I never thought my H would come out of it , but he did and says he is very happy with me. LU

I think you should think about the fact that love is a CHOICE- not merely a feeling. If you were to actively make the choice to love your wife by finding out how to meet her specific emotional needs you might be surprised that she might follow suit. Act as if you ARE in a satisfying marriage and put in the extra effort- you reap what you sow. Maybe your W is just realizing this fact now- so realize that sometimes it takes time for a person to make significant changes in their life. Your finding another person FIRST before divorcing your W and doing the emotionanl repair work is not the way to go. This is one of the main reasons 68% of second marriages fail. Look within yourself before you take the leap.

I just reread my post, and I guess I was trying to compare apples and oranges. My situation is very different, as well as all are. I completely understand that children add a completely different aspect to all of this. I am not saying to just throw in the towel if you not happy. Not at all. What I was trying to point out was, too many children grow up in unlovng homes with 2 parents who are trying their best to pretend for the childrens sake. While really, all they are doing is eeding their kids unhealthy images of relationships. Children do deserve 2 parents..but 2 happy and loving parents. And if that means the parents must split in order to be happy and loving, than that's how it has to be. Do what is best for your children and yourself. And pretending to love someone is not the best for your children. Maybe I should just keep my 2 cents to myself..LOL I am in a mess myself which I cannot figure out. And all we have are cats.

Jenniffer,Your advice about kids needing two loving parents instead of two just getting along is not true.I am reading the book Unexpected Legacy of Divorce and so far it has said that children are better off in a family where the parents stay together, even if the parents are not "happy".I have read in so many books that unless there is abuse in the relationships children do better in intact families. Divorce will harm the children it will affect them for the rest of their lives. I will NEVER forgive my husband for so selfishly bestowing this legacy upon his children. He is a complete and utter jerk!!painforever,As long as you chose to love the OW over your wife you will be miserable. Someone here already stated that loving someone is a choice. It is true. Being "in love" is a feeling and is not real love. We have an endless capacity to fall "in love" but only a limited capacity to be loving. Falling in love with your OW was easy. But ask yourself after that has gone, and it will, how do you plan to be anymore loving towards her than you are to your current W. Perhaps you need to work on loving your wife more. Granted loving someone is a lot harder than falling in love with someone but you are denying yourself growth as an individual if you shun the hard work and take the easy way. Read a book about divorce and all the fall out. It is good that you are here. It is the first step. Please, please read and post.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jenniffer: too many children grow up in unlovng homes with 2 parents who are trying their best to pretend for the childrens sake. While really, all they are doing is eeding their kids unhealthy images of relationships. Children do deserve 2 parents..but 2 happy and loving parents. And if that means the parents must split in order to be happy and loving, than that's how it has to be. Do what is best for your children and yourself. And pretending to love someone is not the best for your children. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jenniffer,I'm having trouble agreeing with you here... I believe what the kids need to see is that their family is irrevocable, and is not contingent on both parents being always happy and in-love. I can't imagine that it's good for the kids to learn that their family, their primary pillar of emotional stability, can disappear in a puff of smoke at the first sign of unhappiness by one of the parents. So, barring emotional or physical abuse, I will argue that it is always better for the kids if the parents stay together.Now, you can argue that a person can choose to put their happiness above all else, and that that is a valid choice. I have no disagreement with that; a person does have the right to pursue their happiness if they so choose. Where I get uneasy is when that choice is somehow being sold to me as an act of martyrdom, that the selfish acts of one person are actually done to benefit the kids... Nah, that won't fly here...Believe me, I saw the look on my kids' face when their mom, the WS, told them that she was moving out because she was "unhappy". That look of sheer confusion and panic is forever etched in my brain, a look that a 4 and 6 year old should never be subjected to, especially when caused by their own parents. Fortunately, there is at least one parent for them who has decided to focus on their needs instead of being selfish...AGG[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited May 31, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jenniffer: What I was trying to point out was, too many children grow up in unlovng homes with 2 parents who are trying their best to pretend for the childrens sake. While really, all they are doing is eeding their kids unhealthy images of relationships. Children do deserve 2 parents..but 2 happy and loving parents. And if that means the parents must split in order to be happy and loving, than that's how it has to be. Do what is best for your children and yourself. And pretending to love someone is not the best for your children.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If we make our happiness dependent on our circumstances, we're likely to be unhappy more often than not. Way too many times I hear people saying they just "can't" be happy in their marriages, when what they really mean is that don't want to take responsibility for themselves and their own attitudes and actions. I'm not saying it's easy, because I know very well that it's not. But what ever gave anybody a reason to believe that life is supposed to be easy?No, an unhealthy image of a relationship is not going to do a child much good. But how is it more healthy to teach that child that a quixotic search for happiness is more important than fidelity and responsibility? Especially if true happiness actually derives from the sense of one's own integrity and responsibility, as many people believe?And what "pretending" has to do with anything, I have no idea. Kids don't miss much.

Dear CAN”T LET GO,I have always managed to cope with things in my life, I am very surprised at how this has completely devastated me. I have always been optimistic, never give up and believe that I control my own destiny.I don’t know if any of u feel this way, that since b4 we were married in our minds we conjure up a person whose image and personality we wish was our partners. Through the years you add bits and bits to that image – of course u think this person doesn’t exist and u’ll never come close and u accept what u think is enough. 12,000 miles away I met the person in my GF. It was inevitable that I fall in love with her. You are right CAN’T LET GO, it was almost surreal. I never told her I was married until almost a year later because I knew she would leave me. I haven’t no contact with her for 3 mths already and the pain is still there. I have bared my soul to some of my male friends who’ve seen me with W and me with GF they all know with who I belong. But as I know now it’s not that easy. I believe my W loves me but she doesn’t believe that I don’t love her in the way that she wants me too. Your situation is different, as there are no 3rd party involved. When the marriage started to deteriorate for first few years I tried to make things work with W like ur husband did, confronted her suggested we tried new stuff but it always end up being the same. You are right we are evolving, I have changed a lot in the past few years and we drifted further and further apart. Yeah I know what u mean by not eating much or getting proper sleep. I have been sleeping in the separate bedroom for the last 3 mths and even before that. I know she desperately want to be with me but I can’t bring myself to touch her in that way. I know the day will come when I have to and I dread to think of that. This coming from a man who loves sex. I am almost embarrassed when she says she loves me cause I can’t say it back. I feel sick & cannot function properly too. She seems to show she is coping well, never even asking me the details of my relationship with GF. She feels insecure too, asking me if I am sure I am staying almost all the time. It’s not about being macho or anything like that. I have been such a wimp so emotional so... I don’t think I am prepared to divulge all I am feeling inside, about my GF about her. It will terribly hurt her, and I don’t really care for marriage counsellors. I don’t mind seeing a therapist for myself to help me cope with this grief and pain I am feeling. But that’s about it.Do you think there is real love between me and W if I feel this way? CAN”T LET GO- that’s what she said –our history and two kids must mean something. And yes it does, that’s why I letting go of something so precious to me – the girl I love and my happiness. But for how long I don’t know. Right now I am burying myself with work and the kids. CAN”T LET GO, do you feel pressured to make things work? Are you afraid it won’t work out in the end? What does your H wants? Thank you and the rest for sharing ur experience and giving advice.

AGoodGuy,I have told W I am sorry for the pain I have inflicted on her. And now I am paying the price for it. You must have been speed reading AGG, I have lost my GF and I am honouring my commitments. Whether it will change the way i feel for her I don’t know. For now I don’t think I can, I just can’t control that. Lu, I don’t know if I believe about love being a choice. I look and her and try and try to love her. Did things together but I can’t shake the feeling. I met a Real Estate Agent today, W desperately wants to start fresh aboard where I was living so…Anyway I was talking to this woman alone and she can see straight to what I was going through. She told me she’s been trapped in a miserable marriage for 23 years now. She doesn’t love her husband but will stay for the kids until next year when her youngest finish school She says its quite common, some of her friends feels the same way to. However weird, the experience have turned her into a vegetarian cause she could relate to how animals feel in a cage and not being free.HopelessinAZ, I am sorry but I have not read any of ur post before. How old are ur kids when ur EXH left. How are they doing now? Are you saying you would rather have both of u suffer until the day u die instead of him leaving? I will continue to post, thanks for ur response. Actually it was my GF’s idea she found me this website and encouraged me to read in here. I have been hovering around for a while. Second time posting in here.

If you read many of the posts on the forum, particularly the Infidelity section, you will see that your feelings and words are hardly original. It is as if all of the people who have been unfaithful in their marriages have read the same book, or use the same Infidelity-language to English dictionary.You and your wife, but especially your children, deserve the best effort that the two of you can put out to reconcile and learn to be in love and happy together. When you married your wife, you loved her, did you not? What about her did you love? Why do you not love her now? Find out what is WRONG with your marriage and FIX it.After you have both been faithful to one another and both have REALLY worked - with an intent to succeed - at your marriage for at least 18 months, I would be willing to bet that you will find your marriage a wonderful place to be.Throwing yourself into work and children will never make your marriage a happy place to be. You need to throw yourself into your marriage, THEN your children will find it a happy place to be.Go over to the General Questions II forum and read some of the posts from the men there who are recovering from their own infidelity. Reading their posts will give you a great deal of insight into your own situation - some of them sounded just like you when they first came, and all of them FELT just like you at some point before they decided to work on their marriages.Read Frank Pittman's book "Grow Up! How Taking Responsibility Can Make You a Happy Adult" Doing what is RIGHT simply because it IS right can ultimately be one of the most incredibly rewarding things you ever do with your life. ------------------ terri CourageWhatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong.There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right.To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage.Ralph Waldo Emerson

My STBX left me 3 months ago. Kids 6 and 7. They never saw us unhappy. I never knew he was unhappy. He told me that I was the best wife anyone could ask for that he still loves me and cares for me but needs that tingly feeling to stay with someone. Much younger OW provides that: exit one husband stage left. No separation, no couseling, no discussions, just I want a D. It is the only way.Right now it is all to new for kids to grasp. Daddy travelled a lot anyway. Daughter cries out with panic everythime she thinks D papers are being signed. She is angry at her father but afraid to show him. To son things are pretty fun so far, Daddy gets a new place and buy bunkbeds and nintendo and tv's and movies etc.... There will be fall out and I am terrified that I won't see it or handle it well enough to give them the best shot at a happy life. My kids have been put at a disadvantage by my husband. STBX's parents divorced 25 years ago. He still has not dealt with it very well. Swore he would never do that to his own kids. It affected him profoundly and it affects his relationships. He lacks the ability to trust someone completly. I thought if I stood by him long enough and showed him my devotion to him he would eventually let his wall down and let me in but that never happened and now he is gone. May I suggest that you post and or read on the General Questions Board. There are several people over there who are/where the WS and may be able to give you some thoughts as to your feelings as well.Did your OW post here? I may have responded to her post if she is who I am thinking about. I was rather frank with her given my feeling on this subject. I encouraged her to tell you about this site.

painforever, I can pretty much guarantee you that if you just try to change your feelings, you will fail. At least, I tried for years to change my feelings, and I failed.My advice is, don't dwell on your feelings, and don't worry about them. Work on your attitudes and your behaviors instead.

Well said Gnome!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by painforever: You must have been speed reading AGG, I have lost my GF and I am honouring my commitments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ooops, you are right, I missed the part about you being back home. Sorry...Buuuuut, let's revisit how you and GF parted, shall we? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Before I left I told her that I knew we will be together and I promised I will be back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>She tells me that if my love is true and we were meant to be it will happen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds to me like you guys fully expect to get back together, right? Maintaining contact (even it's just through friends) is worsening your withdrawal, and preventing you from moving back into your marriage.Harley's rule for recovery is "no-contact" between the WS and the OP. Have you been following that rule?BTW, I do give you a lot of credit for coming here for advice; it's much more than most WS's do. So, is there any way we can help?AGG

I knew that many people here would not agree with me about the children. But I still feel strongly about not living a lie. Nomatter what. And, maybe I feel this way because it's not my husband who is/was cheating on me and my kids and I sitting home. I think that our experiences have an effect on how we feel, what is right and what is wrong. If I try to imagine my husband wanting to leave me, loving a different woman, and staying with me only out of pity and for the sake of our children, well, I wouldn't want him. I need a man to love me and want me. And if we exhausted all options to make it work, and he was still unhappy or wanting to leave, well, then goodbye. Nomatter how much it hurts. I deserve better than that and so does his wife and children. I grew up in a very unhappy household. I know many people who grew up in households that just stayed together "for the sake of their kids", and they shouldn't have. I am sure I could find books and studies about how children are better off with 2 parents, of course they are. But children growing up with their parents living a lie, unloving, arguing, distant, well...I can't see how that will help them in any way. I just can't agree.

Hello again. Ok, I need to write a manuscript here! Sorry for the length!! I want desperately for my H to give our M, especially me another chance. I did NOT understand before what he was talking about. I saw no change in his negative behaviorus nor did I realize that I should've been changing mine. We fought wickedly over stupid insignificant things. He screamed & yelled & cursed & put me down when we had disagreements and So then I gave it back every bit calling him every name under the sun. He was often exposted to extreme politics /stress in situations. He was like a dog with a rawhide bone. Only talks about situations from work, Never anything else. He would not let it go! In February I said no more: He needed to leave work at work: & that we dont have a home life & never go anywhere or do anything. He got mad & said I was ungrateful & should be thankful for having a job, a house & a car to get there. He ripped up the valentines card I had got him & threw it in the trash. He did the same for the very special one he bought me that was at home. I sensed his withdrawal from me. A woman at work was becoming a friend of ours. She spends lots of time in HIS office & not talking about work!! To summarize, She manipulated her way into my H's life in many ways & he likely thinks she is 'there for him' when I am not. I am pretty sure she butters up his ego constantly, & now have a feeling that she puts me down reinforcing his self inflicted negative image of me. Mentally he has picked out bad moments & reflected that on our whole marriage instead of realizing we had lots of good times & real love is worth fighting for. She is constantly in his office & theyre not talking about work. She is lying to my H about her own H. She puts her H down for lack of home remodeling but she is with her H for $$ & he can just pay someone to do it & doesnt have to figure it out for himself. I have no doubt she tells my H that she can't believe I (his wife) dont appreciate him for all he does around the house. ( I DO but never say much. Its his hobby & he prefers to be left alone. I guess I can see now he wanted compliments! I have tried recently, but he gives me dirty looks because it is something out of the (past) norm for me to do. He told me she told him she was only trying to help & would stop. That she is a "non issue". I tried to talk to him & it all went downhill ever since. He said he wanted to separate & needed time to himself to think. Now hes gone to "Whats done is done" & has mentioned separating $$ and selling our house. He stopped phoning me when out of town but would still leave msg. Now he doesnt even do that.He moved into the other bedroom ~ 3 weeks ago. We do everything separately. Barely speak. He asks me why won't I let him go. I said I can't, he's my family, my world. That lots of people fight & its normal & not a reason to throw away 9 yrs of marriage. Our anniversary was last month, passed without mention. I was heartbroken. I am holding on to a last shred of hope in my own case. She KNOWS I want to save our marriage & is still an interferance.!! He has said to me that I am pretending to change & will go back to my old habits. He said he doesnt want to live like this fighting anymore. I told him the other day I wished hed tell me what hes afraid of. That I worry, whether he wants me to or not & miss him when hes gone. Along the way we let outside crap take over our focus & interfere. Real love runs deep. It is worth working on. I wish for your wife, that you could give your marriage a chance. I know its a very slow process.Are you willing to find out your wifes emotional needs & let her know yours to see if you both can work on that? The questionaires are on this website. Please try that.Read that Relationship Rescue book by Phil McGraw. It is about looking deep into YOURSELF for answers as to why you act in certain ways & what you really want. There are great questions in there that you should answer in writing. I was really surprised at what the combination of certain answers showed me, Conciously I didnt realise it!! I'd better shut up for now. Please dont give up yet![This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

I asked my wife for a divorce in 1/2001 because i) have been in a terribly unhappy marriage for the last 5 years it was inevitable ii) thought it was what she wanted too and iii) met another person while i lived away who is very special to me. The key sentence here is, “met another person while i lived away who is very special to me.So why did you wait until you “met someone special?” Isn’t/wasn’t your wife “special” enough for you to marry her & pledge your life to her? Your vows did not contain the sentence, “until something better comes along.”Telling my GF that I had to leave her was the most painful thing I have done in my life. But it was easy to tell your wife you want a divorce? Grow up.------------------ Prayers & God Bless! Chris For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris - I like you, we think alike. I couldn't agree more. It's a matter of priorities, and some people have #1 as the priority. I do commend PF for at least going back home, but not for not putting his heart and soul back into his family and still pining after something wrong.My H left for his "happiness". Now a year later we are divorced, and his mother tells me how he is miserable all the time. What? He got the OW didn't he? Wasn't that his soul mate, what he wanted more than anything in life, more than his wife and children? Why is he so miserable? I guess when you lie and do underhanded things to someone who loved you heart and soul, there's just not much feel proud about. He self-proclaimed himself the greatest dad in the world, yet he only bothered to see his kids twice all winter, so far only once this year. He self-destructed and has to look at the object of it every day now (the OW) and I believe somewhere in there he resents her. He will never have the same relationship with his children ever again, it's lost and he doesn't even try. The last time I saw him, I caught him in a moment of regret when I walked away holding my youngest son's hand - I saw him get choked up and have to turn his head. Oh well, as they say, he made his bed.I on the other hand am happy with my life (I have my children every day; I still have the support of my family and friends as well as his - most of which he's lost). I did the right thing trying to save my marriage and my family from destruction. I'm content with my effort and now what I have and look forward to whatever God has in store for me and am thankful He revealed my H's double life to me. I don't come without scars, he ruined my health with his affairs, but life is good again and I'm definitely happy, and getting happier.I just think, PainForever, that you need to hear about the aftermath from other people. Nobody goes their merry way after a divorce, and most likely it is your wife that will do well after you abandon her, not you.------------------ Kathy

PF, I think Kathy put it quite well. This 'feeling' you have for the GF is special because she ignited something that was missing. By your choice or not, it was still missing. The point here is that, what have you done now to bring back value to your family? You are with your family for 'the children's sake', but not because you love your wife. Hm...... Why should they be the only ones who show love and care for you? Of course you are resenting your wife vs GF. You don't have to bring value to the Gf, she takes you as you are. Whereas your family needs for all it's members to be contributing value to the family arrangement (even the children). In other words, you have to work for your family's love, the other one is a freebie. Yet nothing in life is free. So is this 'freebie' going to always be a freebie? No..... eventually you will have to start 'owing' a value of sorts to the GF also. You see these Gf's will eventually start demanding the W status from you, sometimes even more than your current wife and family require. Then what????Back to square 1. Nope, -2. No family and maybe no GF. Hm..... call that happiness? Well, if you do, go for it. But you will start the vicious cycle because there are many 'special' friends out there more than happy to start this game all over again. L.

I left before I met the other person, I moved out of the marital home. Once my 2 years are up I could apply for a divorce stating irreconcilable difference. She was aware of that- she didn't stop me. Asking her for divorce wasn't easy, but I honestly thought it was something she wanted as well. How can you put your heart into something when it's not there? I love my children more than the OW, myself or W, and that's why I am here. But my children comes in a package with W. Most of you replying have probably been in the my W's shoes, so you are telling me you would prefer ur spouse to stay in the marriage with you even if they feel this way so strongly? Its been almost 4 months now, W is trying to change her ways and it feels weird. With her it's always been cold and empty and that was what I was comfortable with. There are different types of affairs that occur for different reasons I think. And as a WS Depending on how and why it occurred will affect them in different ways. Kathy of course I am sad, sad for the failure of my marriage , of what she and I became. We got married young, it was more like the right thing to do at the time. I never felt the way I feel for my GF with her even 10 years back, when we got married. But we had something of course - now it's just dead. If we eventually get a divorce I wish her well. For the well being of my kids it's the only way. Right now I just think that I'll be eternally unhappy.Orchid, I can't explain this but I have an intense desire to make my GF happy. She never really got 100% of my feelings my thoughts, she doesn't even know just how much I love her. There are so many things I want to give her, I want to make her proud of me, I enjoy making her happy. So I do wish I could give 'Value' as u put it to her but I can't. To my kids yes also but between me and W I don't have that feeling. I am sorry if I am upsetting anyone. These are just some of my feelings. I don't think every WS feels this way. Thank you once again for ur responses.

Hi PF,I am not upset at you just disappointed. Let me explain. You see in my situation, I am the BS and H is the WS. H also had and has these intense feelings for OW and wants soooo much to please her. Hm.....Now my feeling is that those 'intense feelings' were stolen from my family, from me and even our son and given to OW. Did H have that right? Not by my standards nor by God's. All your focus and desires to share with OW have been stolen from your family. What would you think if someone broke into your family's home, stole all your furniture and gave it to their mother or GF? Our next door neighbor broke into my dad's van, stole his custom stereo system and installed it in his mother's car that was parked in front of his house right next to ours!!!! I saw it!! Now that was just a stereo, yet I felt like our home was raped...... This stealing of something so personal is even closer to rape, it is a raping of one's family and done by one of it's main members. The one everyone trusted. Hmmph.... Should they be offended??!?!?! What do you think?L.

Hi Painforever, Noone discounts how you feel towards your GF....what you have to realize is that those feelings WILL NOT last and then you are back to a relationship filled with ups and downs and times you won't even like her.Please get a copy of Private LIes by Frank Pittman....it lays it on the line about the chances of a relationship succeeding from an affair....it's not good. Although you feel you are the exception we have all heard this story a million times.You can restore loving feelings for your W (or build them) if you follow the Harley principles....your W is willing and your children most certainly want an intact family. You don't have to be in "painforever"....honest. It's been done alot around here...but if you stay on the fence with contact etc. your W will give up and then you won't have much of a chance.....LU

Hi there, painforever:Just thought I'd throw in a little encouragement. You are, in many ways where my H was in late 1999. Tho we had never separated, we'd been pretty much "emotionally divorced" for some time. He had fallen deeply in love with a co-worker. He did not tell me about her at first, only that he was unhappy living with me, did not love me, wanted to leave. My first thought was that I was sure as heck not in-love with him either, so go. But, given that we have 2 kids, and that I did love him (while not at all in-love), I asked him to stay and work on things with me.He did, and he tried very hard. He had already cut-off contact with the coworker (tho working at the same company made it very hard not to occasionally see a glimpse of her, or hear her name from someone else, etc). He was being torn in two, and was in incredible pain. We went to one marriage counselor a few times, but it did not help. While he was trying, he was still inlove with her, and kept thinking that one day things might work out with her if they did not work out with us.We started using the MB plan to restore love in your marriage, and it did help a bit, in that the changes we made made our relationship start to recover a bit. He still had not told me about her, but in his heart, he was trying to let go of her. But, he was still in great pain, and obviously having a lot of difficulty coping. I tried to get him to go to an individual counselor. Finally, he had to tell me about her, and it all came out...how he felt she was the right person for him, how he had never felt a bond like this with anyone else, how he felt she understood him at an almost pyschic level, etc. He was, truly, grieving her loss.He did end up going to an individual counselor a few months later, who did help him work through all this. And, we kept working together, using MB principles. Eventually, we fell back in-love, and it is truly very much the kind that makes you feel like you are walking on air. Of course, it has taken me a while to trust that he truly loved me, after all I'd heard about this OW, and the fact that his hurt over losing her had been so deep. The way the counselor explained it was that he had shut down his feelings for such a long time before he fell for her, that when he did allow her to "reach" him emotionally a little bit, his emotional reaction was dramatic. Sort of like a plant that has been half-starved for water getting a drink, I suppose. Besides all that, there were some issues we had to resolve...not much point in falling back in love if you are going to return to the same ways of relating that lead you to fall out to begin with. But, it IS very possible to recover the love that you and your wife once had, and to make it much stronger and deeper than before. It is a lot of work, but so are most worthwhile things.So, to tie up this long narrative, at this point, we are happy & in-love, and truly do have a deeper, more soul-touching relationship than ever before. We did not return to the same marriage we'd had, but a much better one than even in our most in-love early days. He no longer feels that she was the "right" person for him, and he often tells me how glad he is that we are still together, and so much in love w/each other. Personally, I think she WAS a good match for him in many ways. If he had not been married & with kids, I think they could have been happy together. Not necessarily happier or less happy than we are, just different. Just as I have met a few guys I could have been happy with also. I guess what I am saying is that I do not believe that there is only 1 person you can love madly and truly, and be happy with. I think that there are many people one could build a deep, true love with...part of the equation is marrying someone you can be in-love with, and the other part is building, re-building and nurturing that love. If you loved your wife enough to marry her, chances are good that you two do have the basic ingredients to have a deep, true love between you. And, if you are both willing to work at it, I think you have a great shot.Good luck--Kathi

Wow, Kathi!PF I think you should also remember that even if you choose to leave your family (which I call the path of least resistance because I love that Leann Rhymes?? song), you and the OW won't have a beautiful existence. You will have an X who may have a very bitter reaction. You will have a fight on your hands in court. Your children will suffer, and it won't be by anything anyone does on purpose to them, they will just suffer by osmosis. They will be caught in the middle. Divorces rarely end up friendly unless it is desired by both people. You will both be financially wiped out, but more likely your wife will and that is devastating when you have little ones to feed. I have a lawyer bill here that I will be paying until I'm 80. I mean, at first, my H was willing to give me anything I wanted and "take care" of us, he just wanted out. Well, by the time the OW got her two cents in (because after all, him being nice was going to take away from her lot in life) he tried to leave me with the clothes on our back. Thankfully, we got a great judge that saw thru most of his games.So he's miserable now, with his soul-mate. They fight about money all the time. If you ask me, their soul-mate relationship was a little more shallow than he thought, but it cost him everything and his family to have it because his "feelings" were so strong. Guess what, he's even cheating on her too now. He basically is using her now for a place to live.Feelings change. I still believe if you can put all the hard work and effort into your marriage first, the rewards far exceed leaving. You have much more to gain (and keep) and your children will not suffer (provided you try to keep their lives normal in the meantime because fixing your marriage is trying and takes TIME. T.I.M.E. Four months is a drop in the bucket, really.Take care.------------------ Kathy

Excellent post friends... Kathy, what an inspiring story. I'm so glad you told it! I didn't know you were on the path of reconciliation. Who helped you with your PLAN once you both decided to work it out? That's about where I'm at and my H is in the same boat as PF - in fact, could be PF for all I know... no, not exactly but the overseas gf rings a little too close to home. And the analogy of a plant getting water is another one that hits... so, my H is in this marriage for the kids. As you can see by my other post, we ended up buying a house together that has an "in-law" arrangement so that he could live upstairs and the kids will have free access to both of us. I'm NOT for the separation/divorce but like you Kathi... I want to give it a try. I love my H but lack the "in love" feelings but feel we have a commitment to work on and don't believe it is hopeless.So, PF, from someone who's in a similar boat as your W, look at these principles on this board... commit to trying to work through your differences and trying to at the very least be a co-parenting team. Once you've identified your and your W's emotional needs you can slowly rebuild a relationship that is friendly. No promises of reconciliation - that my be too much for you right now. But, the bible says, "If at all possible and is up to you, live at peace with one another."Just take it one day at a time... give your kids and their mother your 100% for now... if you exercise the principles on this site, you will naturally fall "out of love" totally with your spouse, as will she towards you. But, for the kids' sake, please think not only of yourself and your needs... they didn't ask to come into this world and you have an obligation to be a good steward to the Gifts that God has given to you. Read about taker/giver on the MB principles also... Keep posting and bare your soul here. It's an anonymous board and so it's really safe to lay it all out there... not for permission but for honesty - to see things maybe from a different perspective.Cheers!------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

so you are telling me you would prefer ur spouse to stay in the marriage with you even if they feel this way so strongly? No. We are telling you to do EVERYTHING you can to make it work. You don’t make yourself love someone & get the feelings back. You do the things you used to when you fell in love the first place. If you do pleasurable activities with someone, eventually you will associate that person with pleasure/happy time.If you had met the ow & had nothing but arguments & pain, you never would have liked her at all.Why would anyone stay in a marriage just “for the children” & NOT want to make it better for themselves.------------------ Prayers & God Bless! Chris For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Sorry to pick on you again PF,It seems to me you REFUSE to be happy at home. My only comment is that the source of your happiness cannot be your wife or your GF. People who rely on other people for their happiness end up miserable. YOU are responsible for you being happy. That's why counseling might help, to learn to be happy and content with what you have and happiness should come from inside (and in my case it's from God, not counseling). When you find that kind of happiness, being happy with you, doing the right thing comes naturally and you'd do just as well with whatever your circumstances were, rich or poor, sick or healthy (remember those vows?). Don't make yourself dependent on another person for happiness because no other person is that perfect and he/she will eventually fall short, and there you'll be miserable again.I am going on to much less, from a big ole brand new 4 bedroom house to probably a little starter home (if that). No money. No job. Actually nowhere to go at this point and two kids/two dogs to take there. But I feel fine and my kids aren't worried either. I guess this is where I've come to because in my situation, I just may never get married again and it sure feels better to be happy anyway with me who I am - and that DEPENDS on NO ONE (but trusts in God emphatically).Take care. ------------------ Kathy

Your situation is helping me discover my own feelings in my marriage. Please see my new post "What I want to say to my Husband"[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 04, 2001).]

Ya' all are being to hard on PF. His wife had an affair (if I read your original post correctl). He moved out (separated) after a period of time trying work things out. His wife did nothing to invite or encourage him home until he met someone new. Suddenly his wife is now interested in making the marriage work. It is possible that she just can't stand to lose and doesn't actually love PF. I would proceed very carefully with wife and make no commitments. A person's past behavior speaks loudly on future expectations.

Well, engineer_bob, I just went and read through this thread again, and I can't find where anyone is being hard on painforever at all. If anyone has condemned him or criticized him for his actions, I missed it. All we've done is explain the psychology of his feelings and the nature of happiness. We are trying to help him see how best to proceed, not rip into him for what he has (or has not) done.What did I miss?

Just ignore "engineer bob", he pops up from time to time, insists the wife is having an affair (whether that has anything to do with the original post or not), and that the man should leave (whether he's indicated he wants to or not). Sort of an odd way to "help" new posters to a marriagebuilding site.

You say should you suffer the day you die because you have to stay with her?You promised to love and cherish her till the day you died. And won't she feel a big loss and suffer because you want your happiness? Think about it. And you most likely won't be happy if you choose your girlfriend. As you read the posts, you can see marriages from affairs seldom last. You will have nothing. Your wife will not want you back because you inflicted much pain on you. But yet you and she will hurt for the rest of your life because you were concerned with your "happiness" at the moment.I too am dealing with lots of pain so that "he can be happy now."

No it’s all right none of you guys are being too hard on me. I believe my W is honest and determined when she says she wants to try again. Whether she really loves me in the way she says I don’t think she’s even clear of that herself but that’s almost irrelevant to my decision in staying or the way I am feeling.I mentioned in a reply to CLG’s new thread that writing in here is probably not best for me. The more I write the more I am convinced that my marriage is really dead. As I exercise my feelings I know that it can’t change since I don’t want it to. I read postings in here and I see couples trying to reconcile after being cheated not once, twice but even three times, people reconciling for years with almost no progress or even worse like me where one party reluctantly stays almost on auto remote and the other party goes on pretending everything is normal when in actual fact the marriage is a farce. I hardly talk of my day to day experience because there’s nothing to it. Martha yes I do remember my wedding vows. I am not religious at all, I do not believe in god, I think the ceremony of marriage is only of a symbolic gesture. Will she feel a big loss? After 5 years of coldness and emptiness with 2 years of me being physically not there, she probably won’t feel that much difference. Perhaps she’ll miss the superficial chats we have. I honestly feel that in the long run she’ll be happier without me. Being like this is not good for me or her. The only think that held me back is my children, I feel that they deserve me giving it a last shot. Whether I’ll end up with my GF I don’t know. After the pain I have inflicted on her and now that she’s getting used to me not being around, I am not sure she’ll take me back even if she

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by painforever: I mentioned in a reply to CLG’s new thread that writing in here is probably not best for me. The more I write the more I am convinced that my marriage is really dead. As I exercise my feelings I know that it can’t change since I don’t want it to.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, yes. The old self-fulfilling prophecy...There's no question about it. It's awfully hard (though not always impossible) to succeed at something when you are trying to fail.I tend to agree with you that participating in this forum is not likely to help you sabotage yourself. [This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited June 04, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by painforever: Martha yes I do remember my wedding vows. I am not religious at all, I do not believe in god, I think the ceremony of marriage is only of a symbolic gesture. Will she feel a big loss? After 5 years of coldness and emptiness with 2 years of me being physically not there, she probably won’t feel that much difference. Perhaps she’ll miss the superficial chats we have. I honestly feel that in the long run she’ll be happier without me. Being like this is not good for me or her. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There it is - "what I am doing is best for EVERYONE". Human nature really fascinates me. As long as I have been coming to this site, it never ceases to amaze me how this theory comes out of the mouths of those who are leaving or who are contemplating leaving.At least PF you can see that the people posting here are in fact not out to attack you. Rather they are just hoping that you may stop for one minute and think that maybe, just maybe what you are thinking "is" wrong. Reading through this thread you have gotten advice and stories from those on both sides of the fence. From new members and old members alike. No one is going to convince you one way or the other. But, do listen to what they BS say, because that will be your wife if you decide to leave. While the spouses that are betrayed and "left" usually can't get into the minds of the spouses such as yourself, they can tell you EXACTLY how they feel/felt when they are going (went) through all this themselves.I am now divorce - not by my choice. I am happy. But you know what, I was happy before I met my wife, while we were married, even while we were getting divorced. My happiness is not dependent on her, or anyone else for that matter. With that said I told my xwife one thing and that was "Don't ever, ever say that what you are doing is the best for us both and for "my" happiness, not just yours". That is the biggest rationalization of all rationalizations. Don't dishonor your wife by ever telling her that - even if you don't love her anymore, have some simple courtesy to her as a person. If you decide to leave, it is for NO OTHER person than for yourself. It is no plainer than that.If that is how you live your life, I am not going to condemn you - from what you say, you don't have a really high outlook or respect for marriage in the first place.My wife spent the past 2 years re-writing our whole relationship of 10 years. Now that I look back with an almost "healed" heart, I truly see just how ridiculous what she did was. While we were getting divorced I listened to her say much of what you are saying and almost began to believe some of it myself - "we weren't meant to be" "there is someone better out there for each of us" "we never were REALLY happy" "maybe we were never in love". Now, I can look back without the emotion using just logic and my memory - The bottom line was we were so in-love when we met, when we married. Day in and day out while there were problems, we were happy and we did love each other, UNTIL the day came when she CHOSE NOT TO LOVE ME ANYMORE.From that day forward, her mind was centered around "how can I rationalize my decision to give up on our marriage and leave". One thing you can't argue at all and that is that our brains are extremely powerful things! We can think through and solve all kinds of problems - we can use them to create and destroy. So when you make a choice (YOU MAKE A CHOICE) that it is easier to NOT love someone than it is to love someone, your mind will assist you in building that reality. That is what we call "the fog".If you choose to leave and follow-up with the other woman, things may in fact work out for the both of you, but the odds and history says they probably won't. When the butterflies of the new relationship "wear off" and life takes on its usual form, only then maybe "the fog" will lift - or you may be able to simply rationalize the new situation to fit in with your thinking once again.But just as your mind will give you the opportunity to leave and make it seem like the best thing for everybody, so can it give you the power to fix and save your marriage - IF, you ask it to. For without your "wanting to fix it" NOTHING, ABSOLUTETLY NOTHING you do will fix it.To fix your marriage I think requires faith and since you say you have no faith in your marriage, I fear it may already be too late for your wife. For it sounds like you don't even hold marriage to any level higher than a handshake. That makes me a little sad for both you and your wife, and actually even your new girlfriend if you choose to go after her. Without honoring marriage, what sense of security can you offer anyone who falls in love with you.I would never tell you to stop feeling what you feel - because you can't. But like someone wrote previously, feelings are tied to behaviors and your behaviors are tied to your thoughts. If you are able to begin to think about wanting, truly wanting, to save your marriage, I promise you that ideas and solutions will begin to appear in your thoughts about what you can do to do just that.Finally remember that your past does not dictate what will happen in your future. My aunt and uncle have been married close to fifty years and early on they had a lot of trouble in their relationship. She ended up leaving him for a short while. Now her favorite saying is "everyone wife should leave their husband once in a marriage!". Of course she says it jokingly, but what she and he both knew that just because they had problems in their marriage AT THAT TIME, it did not mean that their marriage would continue to be bad, especially once they recognized their problems and BOTH chose to try and fix them. That all happened several decades ago and I am so happy to say that since that point they have been one of the happiest couples I have known.Please don't take what I say here as an attack. And don't think that anyone else is doing that either. We all just care so much about marriage - our own as well as that of others. Only with knowledge can you make wise decisions. And a good decision is not always the one that is going to make you instantly happy.Give it all some thought.Mike------------------ God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

This is the first time I've ever posted anything or even talked about this with anyone. But I am so confused and your question really hit home. I don't love my H anymore. We have been together about 9 years. We were kind of pushed to get married and now have a wonderful daughter who is almost 6. I was so lonely I contacted and old boyfriend and started an affair about 2 months ago. I know my H will be devastated when he learns of the affair and that I want to leave him. He really has done nothing wrong. I fell out of love with him. I know how you feel about your GF, on one hand it's crazy to think that it can work out. But on the othr hand why can't it. I know my BF and I could be very happy. We both are married and he has no small children. He would love my daughter and be a good husband. We have much more in common than my husband and I do and I am just so confused as you must be. ANy words of advice or comments are ewlcome.

So Tired... very VERY good post/advice. What you said was truely amazing and insightful. It really helped me see somethings in my own marriage...Dreambaby... PLEASE..PLEASE... break off your affair and find out what your true feelings are. Right now all you have is tunnel vision. Go back and re-read SoTired2000's post above yours. It was your responsibilty to tell your husband that you were lonely. You need to tell your husband your feelings and the truth about your affair.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by dreambaby: I was so lonely I contacted and old boyfriend and started an affair about 2 months ago.......... We both are married and he has no small children. He would love my daughter and be a good husband. We have much more in common than my husband and I do and I am just so confused as you must be. ANy words of advice or comments are ewlcome.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dreambaby, I had to take a deep breathe before I wrote this - Are you serious? Not only did you take it upon yourself to marr your marriage, you went after another married man? And you wonder why you are so confused? Does the word "sin" mean anything to you?And you can really ask how something like the relationship you formed out of deceipt, lies and the future pain it will inflict on others, can have a chance to succeed? Oh boy, you better pull over because the fog you are traveling in is so deep you can cut it with a knife.I'm sorry if this sounds mean, but wake up. What so many of the WS don't realize is that where their (your) marriage is, is as much your fault as it is your spouse's! But not only that, you are not only responsible for your share of the problems, you have gone out and made even more of a mess to ANOTHER family no-less. Sure your new "boyfriend" has some responsibility in all this, but from what the way you posted it seems apparent that "you" contacted "him".And I guess you both do have something in common - you both are good at lieing and cheating.You are treading in very dangerous waters... I pray for you and your family (as well as the family of your boyfriend). Can't even give you any advice - don't even no where to start....sorry, Mike------------------ God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

[duplicate][This message has been edited by SoTired2000 (edited June 05, 2001).]

Wow, I think Caitlin likes me.I am only suggesting that one not be pushed to comprimise everything to restore a marriage. PF refered to a "fling with someone she met at the bar." This does change things as it indicates where a spouses heart is at. I have been at the BS of an emotional affair. I changed everything to win my spouse back and was successful. Sometime I wonder if I did the right thing.

To furthre explain my situation ... I met my BF 12 years ago we dated for 3 years. Then I met my current H and we started dating and got married 8 months later. I stopped seeing my BF when I started dating my cutrrent H. I have never stopped thinking about my BF and he has never forgot about me. I am not saying my husband is bad or wrong, I just don't love him anymore. I am mostly at fault I understand that. I just don't love my husband anymore. I know I will hurt him tremendously to leave him, but is it worth it to stay with someone you don't love. Doesn't it give them a false sense of love and life. I just wanted to let painforever know that sometimes the BF/GF is out of your life, but not out of your mind. Staying in a loveless marriage can't be right don't you think we need love - both giving and receiving.

Love is not something that just happens to you. Happiness is not something that can be pursued (our Constitution notwithstanding). A relationship does not stand or fall on what you have in common.Love is a choice, and acting out of love will engender the feelings. True happiness comes from within and is much more satisfying than the ephemeral pleasure that arises from circumstance. The strength of a relationship derives not just from how you are compatible, but also from how you complement each other.I'm not going to disagree with you, dreambaby, about whether a "lost love" remains in the heart or mind forever (although how much of your feelings are love and how much are addiction is an extremely important question). You may be right about that. But true love doesn't mean following one's feelings. It means doing the right thing. What self-respecting person would value a gift paid for by the betrayal of an innocent?

I may be completely out of line with this statement, but I think that many of us, myself included stumbled across the wrong website. I would assume that 90% of the people here are the ones who were hurt, and did not do the hurting. Only we know our situation best and know what we have done, right or wrong. Only we can judge ourselves. It's very easy for someone who has been hurt and left to judge the ones who come here seeking advice or understanding to how we feel. Unloved, lost and confused and ready to leave a life that we are miserable with. We will not receive that here, and that is okay. I most certainly do not feel that if you are unhappy with your marriage you should just throw in the towel and walk. Not at all. But we all come to a point that we must do something. We can either justify why we SHOULD stay for whatever reasons. But this is not a practice run. Life is life and were not going to get another shot at it. Why live a life being miserable? There is not 1 reason that will justify that. We must be true to ourselves, nomatter how much it hurts, or how others may not understand. Until you walk a mile in my shoes, do not judge me. We can only try and fight like hell to make our marriages work. And in the end if were satisfied with our effort, and we are still unhappy and we understand that no, this is not going to work, well, it's time to leave. Life is too short to try and force two people to be together, wether they are married or not. The world would be a wonderful place if divorce did not exist. But it does. Things happen and mistakes are made. But were all human, we all need to be loved as well as to love. So, with all of that rambling, one more thing, I cannot force myself to feel something that is not there. I cannot force my husband to love me the way that I need to be loved. I cannot pretend..I must be brave enough to stand up and be honest with myself and others, and I think that many come here trying to do the same...and they are bashed for it. I do not know engineer Bob and have only seen these posts on this thread, but I completely agree with him. painful and ugly? Of course. But it's reality, and it's about time we all face it. Wether we are being left or leaving or trying to work things out. We all deserve to be respected to how we feel. Believe me, if I could lose the feelings that I have had and do have, and go on about life and smile and be happy and content with my life, I would. But again, I would be betraying myself. Living for someone else. And when it comes down to it, call me selfish. I do care for my husband, and want the best for him. But in the end, I need to be true to myself. What is best for me. What is working and what is not. Most of you will completely disagree with me, and maybe a part of me hopes am wrong. But in the end, I will not be the one who is still waiting around 20 yrs later for my husband to decide to be the man that I married. I won't be the bitter one. I've tried and tried. I know what I have done. No one else can call me a failure except myself. You get to that point where, you must chooose. You can either sit back and accept the life that you are living, and be miserable and try to make the best of it, because after all you DID decide to get married. Or you can work your butt off trying to fix the problems, trying to work together but eventually, you must choose. But I don't want to be 50 yrs old and regretting my life either. Marriage vows are broken everyday. When I made my vows, I completely believed my husband would be the man that he presented himself to be. Along the way, that man was lost and he can't find him nor does he want to look for him. I will not punish myself for the rest of my life. I will not. I will stop this rambling, but I just wanted those here that are in the same corner as I am, your not alone, at all. Like I said, most people here are the ones who have been left and it's impossible for them to understand where your coming from. Your not alone, there are too many of us out there. Gripping for answers, and there are none. Only in your heart will you find those answers. Be brave and do what is best. FIght for happiness, wether with your spouse or not. Your not a horrible person because your marriage failed. And I think that most people here try to make us think that...Again, this is the wrong website for many here..I will be looking for support somewhere else. I just wanted to share my feelings...

Jenniffer and other WS's,You are NOT at the wrong website, I promise! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I came here in 1999, as the spouse who betrayed (a WS). Yes, I had some other experience, since I was also a BS several times over... but... I was here to help my marriage because of MY infidelity.Let me tell you what I learned:<UL TYPE=SQUARE> I was the only one who could change me. I was responsible for my affair. I wanted to restore my marriage despite my then-H's affairs. I deserved better than some OM who was with someone else (he was living with a long-term girlfriend). I was better than the whore, cheater, loser that I thought I was. I could be a success no matter how my marriage ended up.</UL>Let me tell you what happened:<UL TYPE=SQUARE> I stopped the affair but kept working with the OM. My then-H had revenge affairs. I lost 100 pounds and got very ill. I got divorced. While the divorce was finalizing, I met someone else, and now am engaged to him. </UL>Now, my life is hardly MB-worthy... but in a way it is. Here's why: I learned, the very hard way, what NOT to do. I share what I've learned with others. I plan to have another long-term marriage, hopefully for the rest of my life (it is my plan) by using the principles used on MB.Let's go through this icky thing together, okay??WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ ~SherylAnd we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino [This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited June 06, 2001).]

Thank you Thank you! I just felt like I had to say all of that...thank you for understanding where I was coming from. I may have come across like I was/am having an affair..but that is not my case at all. Husband suffers from depression and has denied help for 2 years...I am at the end of my rope with him and now, he wants help. I think I crossed over that line, I feel nothing for him. But, thank you for sharing your story. In the last year, I have lost 60 lbs, not from trying, from being so depressed and hopeless. I am still losing, but it's not hurting me..I could stand to lost 10 or so more... I am happy that your "story" has a happy ending..I wish for us all to have one.

Surprising as it may seem, Jenniffer, I don't disagree with you, and I don't think what you have said in this last post contradicts MB principles. However, our enormous capacity for self-delusion means that we don't always see our own situations with the clarity that an outsider might.When someone says something we don't like, that may be when it's most important for us to listen... Er, make that your second-to-last post (although there's nothing to disagree with in your last post either). [This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited June 06, 2001).]

Hi Jenniffer, Please forgive me for thinking that you were a WS, that was a misunderstanding. I'm so glad my words gave you some comfort.My ex-H was also very, very depressive, and I finally felt like you did -- I simply could not go one step further with him.There is another poster, Nellie, who is standing for her marriage (she is not a religious person, this is of her own personal choosing, not God-inspired) to a very depressive person. Her H left her and their six children, and she is not letting go, although he is living with the OW (I think it's been about two years).I say that to illustrate that you can find support no matter which way you decide to go (divorce, like me, or "standing" like Nellie).Please continue to post, and read all over the place... I wish you continued healing... don't go too fast on that weight loss (congrats, even though it sucks how you did it!)... I did just like you, needed to lose the weight, but royally messed up my colon in the process (and that isn't pretty!).

Jenniffer, Marriage is an act of commitment. You made a free choice to be with your spouse for better or worse, till death do you part (or something close to that). Now, you are miserable, and you want out because life is too short. Right?OK, Jenniffer, now I'm going to use my silver bullet on this one, and I'd like to see how you respond. What if the source of your misery happened to be not your spouse but a child? What if you had a child (i.e. made a commitment to raise a child) and then decided that the hourly feedings, the diapers, etc, was for the birds and that you were miserable and that you deserved a better life? Would you feel OK to say to the child "sorry Junior, you make me miserable, I deserve better, so see ya"??I presume your answer would be "no"... So, tell me why the difference? Is it because your child is related to you by blood and your spouse is not? OK, then what about an adopted child?To me, marriage is no different than parenting. There are ups and downs, but during the downs you need to find ways to make yourself happy instead of running away.Marriage is not a big fun party, where if the fun stops, it's time to move on. You should not depend on your H for making you happy, nor can you let him make you miserable. Only you can make yourself miserable, if you allow yourself to do so.Believe me, my W could have written your eloquent post, full of sorrow, misery, and pain. She did bail out on the marriage (while also making sure to put a knife through my heart by starting up an affair)... Well, guess what? She is still miserable, probably more so than before. She is now finding out for herself that her misery was self induced, and that while I certainly was not the perfect husband, I was not the source of her misery. She was.Anyway, Jenniffer, to paraphrase Mr. Clinton, I feel your pain. I just suspect that you are misdirecting your efforts at self improvement by trying to find someone to blame for your pain. Look inward, and you will find unlimited strength. Then work on yourself, become the person you want to be, and your H will most likely follow.Good luck,AGG

Very interesting topic. I don't have a lot of time to reply after reading the whole thing, but we all have something to offer here. We all can learn from each other and I hope Jennifer that you find peace. I agreed with that last post you wrote. There were so many replies on this thread I can't keep them all straight.I'm curious about the original poster, PF, if you left your wife and then met gf, then she is not OW, she is just your ex gf. If you left wife for her, she is OW. Which is she? You have a lot to offer to many people here too and I hope you don't get offended by the differences in opinion. I probably haven't taken the "traditional" MB path either here, but I tried to save my marriage. It didn't work. I do think that it sounds like you are living with wife, emotionally attatched to gf/ow, again hard to decide what she is because I don't know which one, but if you met her after you left wife, and she is gf, i don't think it's fair of you to contact her while with wife. If anything else, she has been in pain, I'm sure also, because of this.If she is gf and not ow, I'd also say, at what cost are you giving up your happiness for wife? I admire you completely for staying, and you may surprise yourself and this could work! The tools are here to help you. But pick one of the two women and be honest to them both. I think your wife deserves to know your real intentions too. I do know some people who chose to stay married, only for the kids, and its a living arrangement thing. It seems to work for them, but it can be awkward too.This post is so long, I don't feel I'm making sense any more, I'll check back and see if I can get clarification on the ow/gf issue and what point your at now.Someone estimated this place represents about 90% BS and 10% WS. I bet there are even less WS than that but I hope you keep posting. THis place is for everyone.Good luck, Dana

Jennifer I totally agree with you. We are not blaming our spouses, we are just saying that we do not feel that our life need to be dectated by what our spouses wants. Marriage does mean something to us - we just don't feel that we should be unhappy just to make someone else happy. And even if we do stay are they really happy or just comfortable because of the way things are. Jennifer, you make alot of sense to me.My husband is not a bad guy, he really hasn't done anything wrong. He is just very withdrawn, but yet wants to know what I am doing all the time and ALWAYS worries about money. Financially we are fine, but he never wants to do anything because it costs money. I work hard FT and am going back to school thru distnce education and run all over with our daughter. So going out to dinner, or a movie or a nice vacation isn't too much to ask for when we have plenty in the savings account. He does a good job with our daughter and I am thankful for that. I feel like we're more roommates than spouses. I have tied to do things that would mean something to him. Plan a weekend away (But he cancelled it at the last minute - he thought it was a waste of money) I buy him lovey cards and leave them in his briefcase or in his car - he never buys any for me. He's there physically but not emotionally. I want to be with someone who wants to do things and meet people and WANTS to be with me. I don't think this makes me a bad person. I don't think my wants are all that out of line. If people were honest - that's basically what we all want. I am not walking away without trying - I have tried and will continue to try. But I am keeping other options open because you can only try so long when it's one sided.

Wow. I am speechless, believe that one? I don't even know what to say, which may be a good thing?...I think that maybe, just maybe...that I never felt those strong bonds that most of you have had. No, of course I would not just leave a child if they were causing me grief. But I don't feel that way with my husband. It's a long long story, and why we got married, well, who knows. But we never had those ties, we never had the bond that so many of you mention. My husband admits it too..we got married because it was the thing to do, we wanted to settle down and build a life together. We rushed it and didn't think. And since then, we both have been paying for it dearly. We obviously did not take our vows as serious as we should have. I hate to admit all of this, it's the truth. I am not proud of that, but it's the truth. I will post more in a sec..but what I wanted to say, which might be so far off the map but, if I had a child (no children) and they were above age and causing me somuch heartache that I could not eat nor sleep..after awhile, tough love has to come into play. Child/spouse//parent does not have the right to make your life miserable just because you love them. No right at all. Maybe am just stretching for this one..but that is how I feel. Maybe if I was a mother, I would feel differently. But am not, and infertility was also a key problem in our relationship. Too many things....But I do get what you all are saying..I do. With or without the fog..many things have truth in them...but like I said, every situation is different. Thank you..

The point, Dreambaby is this: you and Jenniffer differ because infidelity has not entered her marriage! You said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I am not walking away without trying - I have tried and will continue to try. But I am keeping other options open because you can only try so long when it's one sided.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You cannot "try" in your marriage when there is someone else in the picture. You will always find fault with your spouse when comparing him to your affair partner - ALWAYS. He's in a no-win situation! Leaving options open? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

You must work on your marriage first, and then look at the options if the marriage cannot be restored...Please, get rid of the OM and give your marriage a chance. If you truly cannot stay married, then divorce... but don't string your H along... that's very cruel.

Jenniffer, you are doing good, you really are! You are thinking, and that is waaaay better than what most of our spouses did, when they shacked up with a replacement first and then told us that there are problems in the marriage... So a pat on the back for you! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jenniffer: if I had a child (no children) and they were above age and causing me so much heartache that I could not eat nor sleep..after awhile, tough love has to come into play. Child/spouse//parent does not have the right to make your life miserable just because you love them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree completely! And that is exactly the answer! If your child was making you miserable, you would take steps to draw up some boundaries to stop the pain. You wouldn't leave them! Same with the spouse. Draw up some boundaries. Understand what is creating the pain. Protect yourself from the pain. But don't try to run away from it, unless there is absolutely no escape, (e.g. if you are being physically abused).You have been somewhat vague about what is causing your misery. Is it because you don't want to share, or because you don't know? Can you identify the specific actions that your H is taking which are causing you pain? You have to realize that just saying "I'm miserable" is a sign that you have problems, which won't disappear if you run away. If you want to quit the marriage (and I already said that without kids in the picture, I am not completely anti-divorce), you should at least be able to verbalize what actions are causing your misery, and then see if you can put an end to these actions by setting up boundaries. If you try it and it fails, you've probably earned your right out of the marriage. So, would you tell us what do you see that is making you miserable? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>infertility was also a key problem in our relationship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I can relate to that, we had to go through that as well... Puts a real strain on things, but is there more??AGG

I don't condone adultery, but, I do think it is brought on from problems in the marriage. My first husband left me for someone else. It was a betrayal and I begged him to get counseling. He refused and we divorced. In hindsight, I'm glad if he felt that way that he didn't come back to me out of guilt or because we had a son together. If he had and three years later we were living in separate bedrooms and barely talking and I could see the pain in his eyes, I would be ready for him to leave. Your girlfriend aside, if you are THAT miserable in your marriage, then I don't believe in staying in a situation like that for the kids or because you made vows to stay together no matter what. I suggest that you get marriage counseling and if after that you still feel the same, it's time to move on. You both deserve better and so do your children.

dreambaby...I'll say it again...You have to be honest with your H. You will never change the state of your feelings/marriage without him knowing. Trust me. Our stories sound very similar. I thought the quiet evenings at home were comforting... H thought they were boring....etc... I did not know that he felt differently then he was acting. Therefore, I was blindsided by the A.If you can't be truthful to him, then your not being truthful to yourself. You have to state the problems then work together to fix them. One person cannot fix problems.Go back and read the articles... do the EA survey... use the tools here. We don't want to hurt you..but you have to understand you are saying all of the same things our BS have said to us. It is a very hard pill to swallow... Remember we are here to rebuild our marriages, not help someone else destroy theirs!!You must tell your husband...leave the OP and work on your marriage. If you've done all you can, then go your seperate ways. Only then should you see another person. The grass is always greener....

Hi everyone, how are you guys doing? I feel like I am writing an email . The recent responses have been great. Jennifer, I have been to a few websites and I must say this is by far the most understanding even if 90% are BS. I went to DOL and was trashed, when I retaliated, I was called all sorts of names and I was at my lowest then. You are right everyone’s case is different, if in your mind u believe that u have tried enough and think that it’s time to go then it may very well be. I know I don’t love W and quite convinced the M is dead and I feel that I could be truly happy with someone else but for now it feels like the staying is the right thing to do. In a way it’s to know whether the feelings I have for GF is real, I owe W and kids this much to at least try, maybe to prove to W and others that M is long dead. But you are right she can’t force me to love her and I can’t force myself that either. But I know for sure I am not going to wait another 5 years or even lesser than.I don’t pretend I love her, I told her I can’t say the words. I know the frustration you feel , everyone here is telling you it will likely work if u try hard enough, if u have patience, that u r the cause of ur misery (this is true), u can find happiness inside etc but I was happy when I was on my own, and blissfully happy with GF.Dana, thanks for ur post, to clarify thing..I left to work abroad more than 2 years ago it was not a legal seperation. I made it very clear though why I needed to leave. She didn’t stop me. I went home on average about 4 times a year for about 3 to 5 weeks at a time. I either stayed at home (separate bedrooms even now) or at relatives. In that period W and I have talked about the possibility of divorce a few times. It was while I was away that I met my GF. I never intended to fall in love. She made me feel like I can do anything, made me proud of myself, just seeing her face made me happy. We connected in a lot of different ways, she brought the old me out. She fit into everything I ever wanted, mind, body and heart. You are right I am emotionally attached to her, I feel like I am betraying her instead of W. In a twisted way I am risking my happiness for the pain W feels now. W never really knew how deep my bond was with GF. W never asked me how what and why in regards to my feeling. She goes on like nothing ever happen. Simply erase everything in last 5 years. I wonder how can she do that? Btw what the issue on OW/GF thing? If it’s about wanting to keep 2 women – nope. After all I did ask W for a divorce. I am glad u r now happy with ur SO, I wish I would be there one day.AGG I don’t think its that simple to equate love for spouse to child. As a parent, I love my child unconditionally eternally, I can’t help it, it’s natural, it doesn’t fade, have a high or low, its constantly the same. And It’s not about blood. A H and W have different needs, feelings for one other can change. Sometimes I wonder as a BS or just a S, if your partner don’t love you any more, how could you insist that they should stay?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by connorsmom: dreambaby... You must tell your husband...leave the OP and work on your marriage. If you've done all you can, then go your seperate ways. Only then should you see another person. The grass is always greener....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, so here I am, I have tried everything to comvince my wife tolet go of the OM, I am doing my best to restore what I feel I did to cause her ahving an affair, but I still meet with constant resistance from my wife....I most probably feel very much like the poor guys wife that started this thread..............

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by painforever: Sometimes I wonder as a BS or just a S, if your partner don’t love you any more, how could you insist that they should stay? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I won't insist... it should come from them. They made the commitment too, didn't they? Was it "for better or worse or until the tingly feelings go away"? or "until someone better comes along"? When I said "forever", I meant it...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I know I don’t love W and quite convinced the M is dead and I feel that I could be truly happy with someone else but for now it feels like the staying is the right thing to do....But you are right she can’t force me to love her and I can’t force myself that either. ...I don’t pretend I love her, I told her I can’t say the words.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi again.Just stopped back by to check on this thread, and your words again caught my eye. This is almost word-for-word what my H said to me back then. Having been thru all this and seen how hard it was for him, I DO respect what you are trying to do. You may not feel like it right now, but sounds like you are truly a good person...I'm sorry you are in a painful spot right now. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In a way it’s to know whether the feelings I have for GF is real, I owe W and kids this much to at least try, maybe to prove to W and others that M is long dead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You do owe it to them to try, and believe it or not, to yourself. If you can revive your marriage and truly fall back in-love (as we did), you will be better off as well. Living with a partner you are deeply in love with, in an intact home, with happy kids, beats trying to build happiness with a new love, an ex, custody hassles, child support, etc. One suggestion...drop the idea of proving that the marriage is long-dead. You are hampering your own chances of success here. Do your best to reframe this idea, and work on the marriage "as if" you do care for each other (probably true to some extent) AND expect to be able to re-kindle deep love. Yes, I do know this is hard to do, but try, OK?Honestly, if you were once in-love with your wife, there is a great chance you can be in-love with her again, and even more deeply than ever. Again, good luck.Kathi

Kevan...I need to go back and read more about you, but...My H wouldn't leave the OW either, so I had to plan B him. Only then did he realize how serious this was. He chose to come back, not me. It was only then that we could truely work on our marriage. I knew every time the OW was in the picture because our recovery took a nose dive.But what I was saying about dreambaby is the her H doesn't even get the chance/oppotunity to fix the problems. Running away is always the easiest. Working through our problems is tough & scary.

Well, I am sure glad I came back to this thread today. Happy to see that am not completely alone and nuts in my thinking. Even if others don't agree with me, to know that they understand, well, makes me feel a little better. Almost everyone here...I agree with but do not feel the same. Like all situations..it's complicated and hard to try to explain.I have been married for 16 months, dated for 1.5 years before that. We were comfortable and both wanted to settle down. We were not in love. We mistook being comfortable, stable, secure and happy for being in-love, crazy for someone. Mistake #1. My husband suffers from severe depression, and also has been diagnosed ADD. Since right before our wedding (mistake #2) things went wrong. He withdrew, isolated himself, moody, emotionally and physically unavailable. Soon he became very insecure and obsessed with everything I did and said. He accused me of cheating, lying and stealing. We tried for a long time and most of the time found ourselves "pretending" that everything was okay. He indulged into building a new house that I did not want. We couldn't afford it, but somehow my name was signed on the papers. It was his choice not mine only to come find out that the property he purchased, we cannot build on it. Worthless piece of property and we owe lots on that. After I told him no. He withdrew even more. Ignoring me and y emotions. He refused to see that there was any problem. Besides the , Hello, how are you...nothing at all in between us. He didn't want me going out with family or friends without him. he would come and sit in the corner and pout. I begged him to go seek help, he wouldn't. Come home and yell and rant and rave about work. Knowing that there is only a 3% chance that I can get pregnant, he got it in his head that a baby would bring us closer (WHAT was I thinking) I believed him. So, I became obsessed with getting pregnant. I went for 8 months. Pills, needles, blood work, test after test after test. After the 1st month failing, I should have known. he stopped talking about it, stopped trying, stopped coming with me to the docs. I should have known. But I wanted to make him happy. I want to be a Mother, but I should have realized that at the time, was the worst idea. Then I found out he was tape recording my conversations...and a lie that I said to try and protect myself from his accusations...well, it all exploded. I was devastated and blown away. One thing to be insecure, another thing to record me for 2 yrs. I was wrong for lying, and I am very sory that I lied. I only lied because if I told the truth, he would assume I was cheating on him and blah blah blah. There is absolutly NO reason why he should think that at all. He even told me there wasn't, but in his head he thinks it, he admits to me that he has problems, but refuses help. I asked for marriage counseling..No. He refused. Waited 3 months...now this. I have 1 foot in the door. 1 foot out the door. And I am leaning on the foot that is out. I have needed him for the last 2years and he was always unavailable. When I think about it, the bad negative things about our marriage outweight the good things, it;'s not even funny. No emotional support. No physical. He has withdrawn and been absent in my life. So, it wouldn't be that big of a difference if he was physically not there. It took the death of my friend...and I hit rock bottom with him. I was obviously shocked and mad and sad about losing my young friend...and he had no comfort for me. He has been cold and distant and just not there. Now, he wants help. After 2 yrs of begging. After 2 yrs of telling him that I was unhappy and trying my hardest to make him happy or to at least smile. Nothing. He would try for a day and then go back to his normal grumpy, mad, angry, I hate the world attitude. And I cannot and willnot be a part of it. He cannot bring me down anymore. There is so much to say...but this is obviously too long right now. I am not miserable. I am tired. Tired of trying alone. So much resentment. And now he says he wants to try, Why? For 2 weeks and then go back to his normal ways? It's been like that for 2 yrs. No physical abuse what so ever. Am I scared of him? Oh yes. Very much. He told me the other night that he thought about killing himself or me. Am I scared? You betcha. I sleep with my bedroom door locked. The next day he went for help. Hope it helps him. I won't be there to help him, am tired of doing it all alone. And call me a coward, but I dn't think it would make a difference. He also told me he wouldn't blame me for cheating on him, that it's okay as long as I keep it on the down low from family and friends. Why would I want to be married to a man who doesn't care if I cheat? I will not and would not cheat. It's not worth it. But I refuse to spend my life loving and caring for a man that is NOT giving me what I need. After all this ...well, I no longer feel...nothing.

Hi Jenniffer,Now I remember you, you posted on EN about the tape recordings, right?Let's see, married for just about a year and a half, and all that nonsense from your H??OK, you convinced me. You guys have no kids, and obviously never had a marriage. I say get the other foot out the door [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

. And no, I'm not being sarcastic; I think you do need to do this to protect your sanity and to experience a real marriage.See, in my case, I DID manage to experience a great marriage, until my W went AWOL... So I want that again. Everyone deserves to experience something as wonderful as a great marriage, and yours appears to be completely dysfunctional and beyond hope.Anyway, you have my blessings [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

.Peace,AGG[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited June 07, 2001).]

Jenniffer,I agree with AGG.Most of us here had a pretty good marriage to begin with before A struck. You do deserve better and your H deserves help. I hope he can find it in himself to seek that help.Bramble Rose has posted some great stuff I think you might be interested to read. I will look up the posts for you.

Well, I can't find the posts but they are about letting go of a person whom you can't help. i just thought they may help you.You could always do a search of h er posts if you have time.They were written recently.Take Care.

Whew. Finally someone that understands where am coming from, LOL. Uhm, you know what is funny..after I posted that message I went to lunch here at work, and I was thinking about it..and I said to myself that most people here or other who have problems with their marriage did at ONE time have a loving, healthy and happy marriage. I did not. yes, we had pleasant moments and a few good memories. I would have never gotten married, if I had not. But when I balance out the "two sides" well, there is no contest. We have been married for less than 2 years and the only "good" times that I remember are those before we were married. We married and he could be who he really was. I was a fool to not look deeper, into his eyes or my own. I was looking for the wrong things in a relationship and at the time, he seemed to posses those qualities. I am and was just as wrong as he. The only difference, it didn't take me that long to see that. He has been in denial for way too long. And now, am pretty sure there is nothing that I can give. I am almost 100% positive., My therapist said the same things that you both did. I have one foot in and one foot out and it may be time to just take the leap. I don't "feel" anything that is worth hanging onto. Thank god, my empty prayers at the time were never answered, the fertility treatments never worked. The other night while discussing a possible seperation, he said that he would like to try again for a baby. Right there I knew that this was hopeless. How could he even think that? He may feel differently towards me if I had his child, his exact words. he knows, or least I have tried to explain to him what my infertility has done to me, and he says that? He doesn't realize how damaged or how sick everything really is. He went for help, which is a HUGE step for him, which I know that he knows am really serious this time with him. So, that is good step. For him though. Wether am in his life or not, he needs help. And I think that our marriage or whatever you would like to call it is beyond "working at" because as far as am concerned, we've always been working at it. You shouldn't have to work at it from the start, if only I would have seen that. Live and learn I have to keep telling myself. I have to stay strong and have faith that one day, I will be loved and cherished as I can do the same. I must believe that to stay strong. I don't know how I will make the final "move", woith finanacial and housing problems. But I will find a way. I know what I need to do for me, before he destroys the rest of me.Though some of us may not see eye to eye all the time, most likely because our situations are SO different, I do respect each and every one of you. There are some amazing people full of strength and wisdom in this world, and it's nice to know that alot of them are right here..so, I thank you.