<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by painforever:<BR><B>Sometimes I wonder as a BS or just a S, if your partner don’t love you any more, how could you insist that they should stay? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I won't insist... it should come from them. They made the commitment too, didn't they? Was it "for better or worse or until the tingly feelings go away"? or "until someone better comes along"? When I said "forever", I meant it...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know I don’t love W and quite convinced the M is dead and I feel that I could be truly happy with someone else but for now it feels like the staying is the right thing to do....But you are right she can’t force me to love her and I can’t force myself that either. ...I don’t pretend I love her, I told her I can’t say the words.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi again.<P>Just stopped back by to check on this thread, and your words again caught my eye. This is almost word-for-word what my H said to me back then. Having been thru all this and seen how hard it was for him, I DO respect what you are trying to do. You may not feel like it right now, but sounds like you are truly a good person...I'm sorry you are in a painful spot right now.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In a way it’s to know whether the feelings I have for GF is real, I owe W and kids this much to at least try, maybe to prove to W and others that M is long dead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You do owe it to them to try, and believe it or not, to yourself. If you can revive your marriage and truly fall back in-love (as we did), you will be better off as well. Living with a partner you are deeply in love with, in an intact home, with happy kids, beats trying to build happiness with a new love, an ex, custody hassles, child support, etc. <P>One suggestion...drop the idea of proving that the marriage is long-dead. You are hampering your own chances of success here. Do your best to reframe this idea, and work on the marriage "as if" you do care for each other (probably true to some extent) AND expect to be able to re-kindle deep love. Yes, I do know this is hard to do, but try, OK?<P>Honestly, if you were once in-love with your wife, there is a great chance you can be in-love with her again, and even more deeply than ever. <P>Again, good luck.<P>Kathi

Kevan...<P>I need to go back and read more about you, but...<P>My H wouldn't leave the OW either, so I had to plan B him. Only then did he realize how serious this was. He chose to come back, not me. It was only then that we could truely work on our marriage. I knew every time the OW was in the picture because our recovery took a nose dive.<P>But what I was saying about dreambaby is the her H doesn't even get the chance/oppotunity to fix the problems. Running away is always the easiest. Working through our problems is tough & scary.

Well, I am sure glad I came back to this thread today. Happy to see that am not completely alone and nuts in my thinking. Even if others don't agree with me, to know that they understand, well, makes me feel a little better. Almost everyone here...I agree with but do not feel the same. <P>Like all situations..it's complicated and hard to try to explain.<P>I have been married for 16 months, dated for 1.5 years before that. We were comfortable and both wanted to settle down. We were not in love. We mistook being comfortable, stable, secure and happy for being in-love, crazy for someone. Mistake #1.<BR>My husband suffers from severe depression, and also has been diagnosed ADD. Since right before our wedding (mistake #2) things went wrong. He withdrew, isolated himself, moody, emotionally and physically unavailable. Soon he became very insecure and obsessed with everything I did and said. He accused me of cheating, lying and stealing. We tried for a long time and most of the time found ourselves "pretending" that everything was okay. He indulged into building a new house that I did not want. We couldn't afford it, but somehow my name was signed on the papers. It was his choice not mine only to come find out that the property he purchased, we cannot build on it. Worthless piece of property and we owe lots on that. After I told him no. <BR>He withdrew even more. Ignoring me and y emotions. He refused to see that there was any problem. Besides the , Hello, how are you...nothing at all in between us. He didn't want me going out with family or friends without him. he would come and sit in the corner and pout. I begged him to go seek help, he wouldn't. Come home and yell and rant and rave about work. <BR>Knowing that there is only a 3% chance that I can get pregnant, he got it in his head that a baby would bring us closer (WHAT was I thinking) I believed him. So, I became obsessed with getting pregnant. I went for 8 months. Pills, needles, blood work, test after test after test. After the 1st month failing, I should have known. he stopped talking about it, stopped trying, stopped coming with me to the docs. I should have known. But I wanted to make him happy. I want to be a Mother, but I should have realized that at the time, was the worst idea. <BR>Then I found out he was tape recording my conversations...and a lie that I said to try and protect myself from his accusations...well, it all exploded. I was devastated and blown away. One thing to be insecure, another thing to record me for 2 yrs. I was wrong for lying, and I am very sory that I lied. I only lied because if I told the truth, he would assume I was cheating on him and blah blah blah. There is absolutly NO reason why he should think that at all. He even told me there wasn't, but in his head he thinks it, he admits to me that he has problems, but refuses help. I asked for marriage counseling..No. He refused. <P>Waited 3 months...now this. I have 1 foot in the door. 1 foot out the door. And I am leaning on the foot that is out. I have needed him for the last 2years and he was always unavailable. When I think about it, the bad negative things about our marriage outweight the good things, it;'s not even funny. No emotional support. No physical. He has withdrawn and been absent in my life. So, it wouldn't be that big of a difference if he was physically not there. <P>It took the death of my friend...and I hit rock bottom with him. I was obviously shocked and mad and sad about losing my young friend...and he had no comfort for me. He has been cold and distant and just not there. <P>Now, he wants help. After 2 yrs of begging. After 2 yrs of telling him that I was unhappy and trying my hardest to make him happy or to at least smile. Nothing. He would try for a day and then go back to his normal grumpy, mad, angry, I hate the world attitude. And I cannot and willnot be a part of it. He cannot bring me down anymore. <P>There is so much to say...but this is obviously too long right now. I am not miserable. I am tired. Tired of trying alone. So much resentment. And now he says he wants to try, Why? For 2 weeks and then go back to his normal ways? It's been like that for 2 yrs. <P>No physical abuse what so ever. Am I scared of him? Oh yes. Very much. He told me the other night that he thought about killing himself or me. Am I scared? You betcha. I sleep with my bedroom door locked. The next day he went for help. Hope it helps him. I won't be there to help him, am tired of doing it all alone. And call me a coward, but I dn't think it would make a difference. <P>He also told me he wouldn't blame me for cheating on him, that it's okay as long as I keep it on the down low from family and friends. Why would I want to be married to a man who doesn't care if I cheat? I will not and would not cheat. It's not worth it. But I refuse to spend my life loving and caring for a man that is NOT giving me what I need. <P>After all this ...well, I no longer feel...nothing.

Hi Jenniffer,<P>Now I remember you, you posted on EN about the tape recordings, right?<P>Let's see, married for just about a year and a half, and all that nonsense from your H??<P>OK, you convinced me. You guys have no kids, and obviously never had a marriage. I say get the other foot out the door . And no, I'm not being sarcastic; I think you do need to do this to protect your sanity and to experience a real marriage.<P>See, in my case, I DID manage to experience a great marriage, until my W went AWOL... So I want that again. Everyone deserves to experience something as wonderful as a great marriage, and yours appears to be completely dysfunctional and beyond hope.<P>Anyway, you have my blessings .<P>Peace,<P>AGG<p>[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited June 07, 2001).]

Jenniffer,<P>I agree with AGG.<P>Most of us here had a pretty good marriage to begin with before A struck. <P>You do deserve better and your H deserves help. I hope he can find it in himself to seek that help.<P>Bramble Rose has posted some great stuff I think you might be interested to read. I will look up the posts for you.

Well, I can't find the posts but they are about letting go of a person whom you can't help. i just thought they may help you.<P>You could always do a search of h er posts if you have time.<P>They were written recently.<P>Take Care.<P>

Whew. Finally someone that understands where am coming from, LOL. Uhm, you know what is funny..after I posted that message I went to lunch here at work, and I was thinking about it..and I said to myself that most people here or other who have problems with their marriage did at ONE time have a loving, healthy and happy marriage. I did not. yes, we had pleasant moments and a few good memories. I would have never gotten married, if I had not. But when I balance out the "two sides" well, there is no contest. We have been married for less than 2 years and the only "good" times that I remember are those before we were married. We married and he could be who he really was. I was a fool to not look deeper, into his eyes or my own. I was looking for the wrong things in a relationship and at the time, he seemed to posses those qualities. I am and was just as wrong as he. The only difference, it didn't take me that long to see that. He has been in denial for way too long. And now, am pretty sure there is nothing that I can give. I am almost 100% positive., My therapist said the same things that you both did. I have one foot in and one foot out and it may be time to just take the leap. I don't "feel" anything that is worth hanging onto. Thank god, my empty prayers at the time were never answered, the fertility treatments never worked. The other night while discussing a possible seperation, he said that he would like to try again for a baby. Right there I knew that this was hopeless. How could he even think that? He may feel differently towards me if I had his child, his exact words. he knows, or least I have tried to explain to him what my infertility has done to me, and he says that? He doesn't realize how damaged or how sick everything really is. He went for help, which is a HUGE step for him, which I know that he knows am really serious this time with him. So, that is good step. For him though. Wether am in his life or not, he needs help. And I think that our marriage or whatever you would like to call it is beyond "working at" because as far as am concerned, we've always been working at it. You shouldn't have to work at it from the start, if only I would have seen that. Live and learn I have to keep telling myself. I have to stay strong and have faith that one day, I will be loved and cherished as I can do the same. I must believe that to stay strong. I don't know how I will make the final "move", woith finanacial and housing problems. But I will find a way. I know what I need to do for me, before he destroys the rest of me.<P>Though some of us may not see eye to eye all the time, most likely because our situations are SO different, I do respect each and every one of you. There are some amazing people full of strength and wisdom in this world, and it's nice to know that alot of them are right here..so, I thank you.