Hi Dana,<P>I've worried about my response to you on the other thread ever since I wrote it.<P>How are you? How did the talk go?<P>Please let me know if I offended you in any way so we can clear the air.<P>I've worried all weekend about it, because I thought I may have over-stepped. I certainly didn't mean to, and I only had your best interests at heart. <P>I hope it all went the way you hoped.<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

(((((((((((JO)))))))))))))<P>I'm sorry to hear you were worried, because I don't remember anything bad on one of my threads?<P>Let's see. The talk. Well, I decided I didn't really want to know all the intimate stuff. I already imagined it, and it made me sick anyhow, so I really just kept it general. <P>He was really good during the whole thing, trying to get me to talk, being very affectionate and supportive. He told me we could talk about it again anytime and that I had to ask what I needed to heal. He told me he felt like a piece of sh*t and was sorry . <P>Mostly I just asked when, where, and some of his behaviors then made sense.<P>Things now have been back to normal, I hate to say almost as if it never happened, because I still get sad, but we don't argue, and I don't demand things from him.<P>Matter of fact, yesterday he had to go drop off a coat to her that his son forgot, and he went to watch son's bball game, he stopped home to get some things and called me to let me know he was home and doing a few things (so I wouldn't worry that they went out for ice cream because I do imagine these things when he starts to run late). <P>He has been perfect about it. He has genuinely appologized and showed remorse, over and over which helps. He is willing to tell me what ever I want to know, but now I just can't deal with it, I don't want to know everything like I thought I did. He decided on his own, no favors for the ex. Only talk about the kids, and nothing she needs will come before me any more. He said he sees what he meant when I warned him about being too close, too friendly, in a way that wasn't necessary for the kids. WHat I mean is, he can be civil to her in front of kids, but when their not around, he doesn't listen to her life story anymore. No need for him to mow her lawn, she is capable, just like I do my own. And now that I know the boys again, she doesn't ask him to watch them so much cause she knows I'll be there. Before she knew I wouldn't and it was a game to interfere with our relationship. BF is really mad at how she has used the kids to do things like this.<P>We are going away end of June. Apparently his ex won't even pack clothes for the kids, or buy them new ones but she'll give him money to take them shopping. SHe is mad that I'm going away with them for a week. Oh, and she doesn't like me. Thats nice, considering she cheated on her husband for a year and could care less that he was hurt and once it ended, all of a sudden, she cares that I'm around, and also purposely tried to break us up. I have a feeling she is not going to be fun to deal with in the future.<P>Also, more positive news though, his boys , both, are very good with me. Hugging me, just warming right up to me. Apparently they want to go live with their dad (fine with me)and the older one keeps asking me if I'm going to marry his dad, or did I ever want some boys too. Oh, and he told me I was nice and he missed me, where was I all this time that I disappeared.<P>So things are moving along, slowly, painfully, yet its all worth it. I'm glad I didn't run because I really don't believe this will happen again. I don't believe he's the type to cheat over and over, but he did fall into being manipulated by his ex, and he is responsible too, but thanks to her bad behavior he'll never be with her again and I'm not "as" worried , but I know when she plays little games too.<P>Thanks for writing to me, I haven't had time to reply much this week, but I'm hanging around. I see a ton of new names here this week.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>nothing she needs will come before me any more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I find this statement horrifying. No matter what she did, she was (or is?) his wife, and the mother of his children, and they will ALWAYS have a relationship. Her needs should and will always be important to him, sometimes more important than yours. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And now that I know the boys again, she doesn't ask him to watch them so much cause she knows I'll be there. Before she knew I wouldn't and it was a game to interfere with our relationship.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So now the boys get to see less of their father? Something is seriously wrong if you think the presence of his children interferes with your relationship with him. <P>Sooner or later you are going to get tired of his kids. His kids will not always be sweet and friendly to you - there is a honeymoon period there as well. It is obvious that you feel threatened by her, probably with good reason, but that will almost guaranteed result in destroying the relationship he has with his children. <P>It is completely inappropriate for his children to go on vacation with you along unless you are married to him.

Dana,<BR> I can see that life is much better for you these days and for this im glad.Im glad you didnt get into all those sex questions with him.I can see no where in your post that says the kids interfere with your time with him.Knowing you as i do your not that kind of person and would welcome his kids anytime..Hang in there girl and have a great vacation,,<BR>{{{{{{{love ya}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Tracy

Dana,<P>The XW reads as if she has control problems. This situation puts you as a partner with your BF against the XW. This situation sounds very tempting, since you like kids so much.<P>However, make cure the relationshp you establish also has time alone with your BF, without kids, so that the personal connection begins to build. You can't base the relationship as his rescuer from his X, and you can't base it upon his kids.<P>The talks and the communication are very key, so my big question is:<P><B> are you and your BF's parenting values similar? <BR>Are you and your BF's life values similar, given your age? <BR></B>

Hi <B>Dana,</B><P>I'm happy to hear that things are being ironed out, and that you two are on the same page... that's half the battle won.<P>Dear <B>Nellie</B>,<P>I am of the belief that the hierarchy goes like this:<P>God<BR>Spouse<BR>Children<BR>Job/Work<BR>Recreation<P>In the case of a second marriage, the spouse (new one) still comes first, but of course there is going to be some give-and-take where the children of the first marriage are concerned.<P>The first WIFE? She is the mother of the children, so anything that directly concerns the CHILDREN should be considered... but... when you say: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I find this statement horrifying. No matter what she did, she was (or is?) his wife, and the mother of his children, and they will ALWAYS have a relationship. Her needs should and will always be important to him, sometimes more important than yours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I sooooooo don't agree. Divorce DOES mean the end of the marital relationship. No, not as far as the CHILDREN are concerned, but ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY the end of the man/woman relationship between the spouses. Why would a person remarry and then put the ex-spouses needs above the needs of the current spouse? Or, am I misunderstanding you, and you mean "with regard to the children of the previous marriage"?<P>By the way, I will let Dana answer about the status of her BF, but I believe he is fully divorced.<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited June 05, 2001).]

Sheryl,<P>I could be wrong, but I got the impression from a previous post of Dana's that he was just separated.<P>In a marriage with two biological parents, there IS no hierarchy. There should be no competition between the parents and the children. If you are going to place a spouse above a child, do you also place one of your children above another in importance? Obviously sometimes one or the others needs take precedence, and it is a balancing act, but there should be no hierarchy involved.<P>I am of the belief that the children of the first marriage come FIRST. Legally as well as morally the needs of the first family come first. <P>Divorce is NOT the end of the relationship between former spouses. Obviously the relationship is more intense and important when there are children involved, but even in cases where there are no children, the relationship remains. A simple example - if you were visiting and David's car broke down, would you refuse to pick him up? How would you feel if your fiance told you that you were NEVER allowed to talk to David again about anything other than the children? <P>I am really bothered by Dana's terminology, where she "warned" her BF about being too close - is he so stupid that he needs to be warned? Or does Dana feel threatened, and this is the first step in her attempt to control his relationship with his ex-wife? Can't she trust him to be able to have a conversation with his ex-wife without sleeping with her? Apparently not. <P>If I were ever to get involved with anyone again, he'd better not try to put restrictions on what conversations I could or couldn't have with the father of my children. <BR>When my H first left, the OW was all sweetness and light to the kids. That didn't last. She doesn't have the guts to tell them to their faces that she can't stand them, but within a matter of months she started putting restrictions on how often they could visit. Then she started putting restrictions on whether my H could set foot in my house. So the kids get to swelter all summer because of a stuck window that I could neither open nor afford to hire someone to open. I get to climb on an ice covered roof to work on the gutter - he won't even hold the ladder. <P>It is so obvious that her BF was NOT ready to be in a new relationship. If she gave a d*** about his kids, she would not only get out of his life to maximize the opportunity, no matter how slight, for reconciliation with his wife, but she would encourage him to reconcile. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited June 05, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nellie1:<BR>[B]In a marriage with two biological parents, there IS no hierarchy. There should be no competition between the parents and the children. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe that there would be no compitition if both parents and children understood the "hierarchy"... now, some of this, of course, comes from my church background, and I know, and understand, that this is not your perception, since our beliefs differ.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you are going to place a spouse above a child, do you also place one of your children above another in importance? Obviously sometimes one or the others needs take precedence, and it is a balancing act, but there should be no hierarchy involved.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, I would not place one child above the other, unless as a temp measure, during a specific need, as you have said.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am of the belief that the children of the first marriage come FIRST. Legally as well as morally the needs of the first family come first. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe that the CHILDREN (all of them, if there are children in a second marriage as well) come first, no matter what. In saying that, remember, not all of us will agree on what is the BEST for the children. I am, of course, speaking of my current situation. When I left my son with his father, I *believed* I was doing what was best (with regard to his schooling, therapies, etc.) and I have since begun to revisit this issue, as situations have arisin to make me question my choice. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Divorce is NOT the end of the relationship between former spouses. Obviously the relationship is more intense and important when there are children involved, but even in cases where there are no children, the relationship remains. A simple example - if you were visiting and David's car broke down, would you refuse to pick him up? How would you feel if your fiance told you that you were NEVER allowed to talk to David again about anything other than the children? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good example, and yes, I agree, that if David's car broke down I would be there for him. So, you make a valid point about "a relationship" remaining. I hear you.<P>If my fiance told me that I was never allowed to speak to David again (except about the children), I wouldn't marry him, plain and simple. Now, see, this is where the POJA comes in... and we'd have to agree BEFORE THE MARRIAGE on certain things, like children, their place in the hierarchy, and what it all means. <P>Let me give you an example: Fiance's ex-W was in the hospital, and her fiance was with her. I wasn't here yet. My fiance went to visit her in the hospital with my blessing, and in fact, a card signed by both of us. Now you might find that sickening, but we are trying very hard (for his children more than anything) to remain friendly. We have to go to his daughter's birthday party this month, and we'll ALL be there in the old marital home. It's uncomfortable, to say the least, but because his daughter wants us there, we will both be there, and I will smile, and share in the celebration. It's part of blending families.<P>David does not agree with all this stuff. He wants nothing to do with me, but will speak to me about the children only. His girlfriend is trying to be a "second mother" to my children, and none of them will have it. They hated her when David began dating her (about seven months before the divorce was filed, if you remember), and they want no part of the game. It is a bit of a game, you know. <P>And it's why this stuff sucks so much. You have always been right that it is in the best interest of children for the parents to remain together. But as you well know, sometimes the other half doesn't have the interest in it that you do. <P>As always, I do commend you, and respect you for your decisions.<P>Also, although I know you disagree with my choices, thank you for the kindness of your responses to me. It is appreciated.<P>I will let Dana address your other issues...

testing...

Hi friends,<P>I posted a really long reply today and got kicked off because the site was down. I'm going to try to answer all the questions and comments.<P>First to Nellie, I knew the second I wrote this email reply that I'd be hearing from you. I also feel that since we are at two different types of stages, you would read into this from your angle and not mine. <P>I am not the OW in this situation. I came along after the fact. The exW was sleeping with her own brother in law for a very long time. She ended the marriage, thru her choice. When her affair got destroyed because she in turn got cheated on, she decided to destroy her ex bf and her exH's relationships, and did a pretty good job at trying. Unfortunately for her it back fired and all her secrets were revealed. In the process, she destroyed a family and damaged her own. Before this all came out, my bf was very good to her, actually overly good to her. He pays her way more than she "needs" to live at the current standard she was at. He spends even more on his kids each visit, and he takes the kids every week for 2 days. He never misses a visit, or a function. He is a great dad in all those respects. <P>His ex has used the kids several times in made up attempts to interrupt our plans or cause turmoil. I have no doubt that in a true emergency bf will always help out with his kids , and always is willing to take them extra. My comment is now, she doesn't do this anymore because she got caught using the kids. Also my bf has seen her very true colors and will not do her favors. Such as...mowing the lawn , fixing something broken at the house, or talking to her when she is "down". These things should have ended when they split up anyhow. She gave him up for his brother. She would still be with the brother if she had her way, but since she can't, her new mission in life is to split everyone up. I totally believe, what comes around goes around and she is learning that now. <P>Also, when she would "talk" to my bf, about her relationship troubles, she got quite detailed. He never imagined it was about his own brother, and is disgusted by what he learned. This was very sick and I wouldn't talk to anyone who did this with a friend, much less my own sibling.<P>As for the boys, they were very distant with me in the beginning. They came around slow and were not forced, the same as my kids with him. They understand that their parents are no longer together and will move on in life. I do daycare for a living and I am not really concerned that this is a "honeymoon" period with the kids. I know blended families are a LOT of work and it will never go perfect, but we are working carefully to set a good foundation for the kids. They have never been neglected for the sake of the relationship, as many WS due to the BS. They are included, or come first, thats it.<P>Nellie, I know your story and I see how you take things said very personal, but my situation and yours is very different. I was not an OW who set out to steal someone, or destroy a relationship. Some people do that to themselves, and sometimes we all pay for our mistakes, as I hope our own WS will one day too. <P>To Tom, The ex most definetly has control problems. SHe has manipulated and controlled but now she got caught and it doesn't work any more so she's quite upset. Me and BF do have the same parenting styles (scary). We are both the same age, and both had kids young. As far as life values, I'm not sure what you mean. <P>I know we both feel like we may never marry again, but living together and spending our life together, IF we get thru this, is a very real possibility. <P>Traci - I love you too girlfriend. I'm glad to see your posting and I hope you find peace and strength here from the many great people that offer their support.<P>Sheryl ,his legal seperation will be turning into a divorce soon. As far as he's concerned, his marriage is over and does not consider her anything except an ex wife. <P>Dana<BR>

Nellie, <P>I missed your latest comment when I posted last.<P>I do not come here to pick fights or waste too much time defending the differences in opinion here. But I am going to reply to what you said.<P>Bf will always be the father to his kids. He will always have "some sort" of relationship with his ex. It is a "business" relationship of sorts and not a "friendship" relationship. Some couples who split on good terms, remain "friends". This will not be the case with them. <P>As far as being warned, bf is not stupid, he is human and anyone who understands MB concepts, understands how the affairs start. I warned him meaning, I explained how this happens, and how his being overly friendly would possibly create an issue. Had I controlled him, he wouldn't have had the freedom to find out for himself. Correct, he wasn't ready to be involved in a relationship. Possibly, me neither. When we met, we were not at a singles bar, we met as friends, and were not looking. As a matter of fact, we both met once before when we were single before he married and while I was split up from my ex. He liked me way back then. But the second time I met him, he had been split from his ex for 10 months, but they decided many months before that to end the marriage, he stayed in the house to pay for her college and watch the kids for her to finish a degree. They started their legal seperation before he even left. <P>I am not angry with him for wanting to discuss the idea of reconciling with his ex, and when he did it, it was strictly "for" the kids. All he had to do ,was split up with me, which he failed to do. I told him to go to her if that is what he wanted, when I first found out what happened, and he didn't want to. <P>Nellie, in your case, the woman with your H is the OW. I understand where your anger lies because she has taken your H and also taken him from his kids in a way too. <P>In my case, I am not the OW. I don't "tell" bf what to do, he'd never listen anyway, he makes his own decisions, and basically has figured this out... He is not going to do anything for her, that he would be bothered by if my ex did it for me, if that makes sense. <P>Of course he goes in the house to see his kids, he still pays on that too. SHe has it made financially and had his brother doing all the little chores until he cheated on her. It was never an issue til she got cheated on. <P>But I'll tell you this, it's going on 10 months now that we've been together, and I do love him. I am not angry that he tried one last time with his ex. It doesn't surprise me. I am hurt at how it happened but I understand it. I work on understanding and forgiving with everyone, including my own exH. I offered to give him his space and he wants to be with me. I want to be with him and we are both comfortable with our decision. We go very slow now and try not to move to quick. <P>Lastly Nellie, anytime any woman gets involved with a man who has an ex wife, there is going to be a natural uncomfortableness between the women. It is always scary to know that woman is the mother of his kids. I was bothered by some of the extent of how much he helped her. Especially since, he would never let me get away with my ex doing that stuff for me. I did tell him what bothered me. I don't try, or have to try to control him now either. He is capable of seeing when she manipulates and controls. <P>My husband left me on xmas day for OW. He has been with her ever since. I don't believe for one second anymore that most affairs die in 6 months. This past weekend, I had a bday party for my daughter who turned ten. Her own dad could not show up because he was working, but guess who came? The other woman. And you know what? We talked the entire time and I don't hate her. I don't care for her at times, but we get along. She is not my first choice as an acquaintance but I do what I have to for the sake of my kids. She is good to my kids, and I'm happy for that.<P>I don't mind your replying on a thread that someone started to me as a general question, but I didn't post this thread looking for approval. I am not going to waste my time defending myself or debating when you chose to do it in a "pointing fingers" type of way.<P>We can all offer advice here based on what we've been thru. We can all do it in a nice way. But you are not dating, you are not interested in dating, you have never dated anyone, much less know what its like to date someone with an ex so you really don't have the same experiences that I do when it comes to how you base your opinion. <P>You take the anger you have towards an OW who destroyed your marriage and equate that to everyone who dates in a personal way . I know you'd love for the OW to send your H back to you, but it won't happen. I wish you the best of luck in healing from that event, but I'm not going to defend my life which is totally different from yours in this manner.<P>DanaB<BR>

I am having trouble getting my replies to post. I just want to add one thing. <P>When a marriage ends, the children should always come first. But the relationship with our former spouses will change. We can't be best friends with them. Many times we don't want anything to do with them if they betrayed us badly. All we have to do , is be civil and compromising to make life easier on each other, but thats about it. <P>A second wife, or husband I believe should always come before the ex wife or ex husband, and right beside the kids as the family would be now blended.<P>As for my kids, and bf kids, there are 5 involved, and they all come first in many of the major decisions we have made. I will not do anything to hurt his kids, I'm already starting to get attatched to them just as I do my daycare kids and I believe that we have a long road ahead of us, learning about introducing the kids, possibilities of extended and blended families, and going from dating after a divorce to what would be considered a serious relationship. <P>Its a lot of work and I hope that anyone who has been thru this will offer me what ever advice they can on the best way to make it work and keep the relationship strong.<P>Dana

Dana,<P>I never suggested that you were responsible for your bf's separation from his wife. However, it is misleading at best for you to refer to her as his ex-wife. It matters not what he considers her - she is still his wife if he is not divorced. And you will never convince me that your presence does not have some impact on the probability of their reconciliation. <P>There has been considerable research demonstrating that the relationship between a divorced man and his children is in large measure dependent on what the man's new gf/wife allows - irrespective of whether the new gf/wife was an OW. I am particularly bothered by the fact that you, even at this early stage, are concerning yourself with whether he is paying more than she "needs." How much he pays is none of your concern. <P>You have no way of knowing what the outcome of my H's relationship with the OW will be. It seems that you are convinced that affairs rarely end, and that reconciliation rarely comes about. I do not agree. <P>My H did have an ex-wife, so in fact I have dated someone with an ex, although the fact that they had no children obviously made it much simpler. I do not believe that love ever dies - I am absolutely sure that my H still feels love for her 30 years later. That bothered me initially, but I quickly realized that it would bother me far more had I thought he was capable of discarding his love for her. It is true that I do not have your experiences, or you mine, but I do believe that the fact that I am old enough to be your mother does provide me with a bit of life experience that you have not yet had a chance to acquire.

(((((Dana)))))<P>What can I say? <P>...sigh...<P>If I've learned nothing else throughout this last two years, it's that we all make our own choices, and we all have to live with those choices.<P>I hope my interjection into this thread has not upset you in any way... it was not my intent...<P>Well <B>Nellie</B>,<P>You know what? I'm going to agree to disagree here, with regard to the 1st or 2nd marriage, children of the marriage, etc. <P>My fiance and I were talking about this thread tonight... we were driving around, getting outside a bit, and I brought up the things you and I were discussing earlier.<P>Do you remember me telling you, gosh years ago, that my parents seperated when I was in my 30's? It KILLED ME. They ended up back together, and I was so happy. We never lose that. Never. We all want mommy and daddy together. But... sadly... it isn't always so.<P>I once wanted my marriage more than anything on earth. I loved David with my entire being (and you know I wrote it just like that) but the longer I'm away from his influence, the more I realize what I lived with... and could no longer live with. <P>I suspect that Dana, and a few others who post here, had the same realizations at some point. <P>You have the ability, the psyche, the strength, to stand for your marriage. I respect that. I couldn't do it. <P><BR>

A final note to Dana,<P>I was sitting here reading, and realized that I didn't say something I really wanted to say to you:<P>I care about you, and about your life. I have said many a prayer for you and about this situation in particular... not counting the early prayers about your marriage... and I just wanted to let you know that I understand where you are with your boyfriend. This may seem like a given, considering that my boyfriend and I met while we were both going through our divorces. <P>I am you, without the vacilating boyfriend ~ he never had any desire to return once it was over. But, as Nellie would be quick to point out, and she'd be right by the way, we'll never know if we got in the way. I'd like to think not.<P>That said, I wish you happiness and peace in your life... we will have to live in our skin, and we will answer to God (if not Him, at least to ourselves, and yes, some others - like our children) for our choices.<P>(((((Dana))))) Just because hugs!

Hey you guys,<P>I had to go yesterday and you have a big discussion without me!!!<P>Oh boy what have I started?<P>Dana,<P>I'm so glad you didn't take offence at what I said. And I'm glad you didn't **want** to know. As I said previously, you've been down that path, (haven't we all) and did you really want to tread that path again. I'm so glad to read that you didn't. I think it would have created untold heartache for you. I'm glad you looked to the future.<P>And what a future it could be, judging by all that you have said.<P><BR>Nellie, I have read so much of what you have typed over the last little while, and so much of it is good and wise.<P>But I have the same question for you that I have for The Student (which she never answered BTW!!! TS xxx)<P>How in the hell do you continue hoping for a marriage to work, do all the counselling, love your partner with all your heart even through their infidelity, WHEN THEY DON'T WANT IT!! THEY WALK AWAY. (sorry for yelling)<P>This is a huge problem for me, you and TS keep making all your sweeping statements when at the end of the day he chose to walk away. Not me. He chose to end the marriage, no matter what I said or did. I let him know I was willing to work on our marriage, I wanted it to work, I loved him with all my heart and soul. But he chose a different path. He told me over and over that his heart wasn't in saving our marriage.<BR>When someone tells you that over and over, at the end of the day for your (mine) own self preservation, you walk away. Yes I'm sad that I'm now single and have two children, but I will not accept any of the blame for being that way. Not when I tried to make my marriage work, not when I tried to share with him this site, (no interest shown from him) Not when I was willing to work on our problems, and more importantly, on me. He made his choices, I now get branded because of them. But I can live with that. I'm comfortable with me, and my situation. My children have never been used as pawns, and they never will be.<BR>And one day I hope to meet someone else, fall in love and live happily ever after. Yep, I still believe in fairytales.<BR>Who knows what my future will hold, I sure don't, but I'm not going to hold back from it because he chose to walk away from me.<P>Dana,<P>be happy girl and love and live life. We only get one shot at it, give it your best.<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

Sheryl,<P>It was always obvious in your posts how much you loved David. I guess what I would disagree with is that I do believe that depression played a huge role in the demise of your marriage. <P>The more I read on this board, the more I realize that whatever issues my H and I had were very minor. With each passing day, I miss the husband and father he used to be more and more, and the children's devastation has multiplied as time goes on.<P>Bonnet,<P>My H has suffered from depression all his life. I am obviously not blaming myself for that, nor can I really blame myself for not recognizing it sooner - I am not a psychiatrist. I had an acquaintance whose husband received head injuries in an automobile accident and as a result his personality changed horribly - should she have abandoned him? Depression is no different.

Nellie,<P>It is correct that I will have no way of knowing if I somehow came between a possible reconciliation. I did think about that in the beginning. I can't be sure bf never came between one with me and my ex, as my ex came to me more than once. Both of our ex's wanted to end the marriage, they both cheated, and both did something really devestating surrounding the affairs. They both did not care about reconciliation and we both tried over and over. Once bf and I became close and our relationship got more serious, the ex's took notice and both started trying to interfere. I am not going to blame myself about getting in between them. He went as far as to seriously consider it too but again, this makes me take notice even more to the good person he is.<P>I don't doubt that he will love her, and I have to learn to deal with it, just as he deals with my feelings for my ex. He will love her for the good times, and how things might have been a long time ago, but he doesn't respect her or think she is a good person for sleeping with his brother and making MARRIAGE plans. He has a right to decide never to be with a woman like that, and I don't say a word ever about her to him. She also may have to live with the fact that she lost out on a really good guy and it was her doing to cheat (and not just this one person either).<P>I don't ever want to get between him and his kids. My ex lets OW control when he sees the kids and it frusterates me. To clarify what I meant earlier, I forget that what I post on the board, some people already know more details as we talk on email from time to time. Anyhow, in the beginning, she would make things up or do things on purpose by using the kids. <P>An example would be, visitation is from 9am one day til 7 pm the next day. He would say, be sure your on time when I get there, because I have something to do with Dana. SHe would dig for what it was. Mysteriously enough, she had a hair appt at 7pm and hold him up til 8:30. Just long enough to make us miss our appt. Our time has always been worked around his kids and mine, and the time we get is hard to squeeze in. So it's things like this I'm talking about. She also figured out when I have my kids gone (at their dads). He has 4 days off (works 48 hours in 4 days)and she has 4 days off too (work part time). SHe would schedule things on the day I didn't have kids, purposely so we couldn't see each other that day. This is not a problem any more since I met the kids. Now she is mad that they like me so she doesn't really do things that he'd get to see his kids extra.<P>From the day I met him, he has taken his kids 2 days a week, plus all school functions, sports functions and extra time when they were sick. He is a great dad and this is one more reason I love him.<P>To me, this is her issue, because she has used the kids while she could to control bf into rearranging his things, but only where I was concerned. ALso, she only has done this while single, not while having a bf. A little strange I think.<P>As far as the kids go, I am starting to care about them in a genuine way. It's hard not to when they are so much like their father and all the things I love about him, I also see in his kids. I dont' want to be with someone who's kid's didn't like me, or who the man didn't get along with my kids. So if my kids like him, and vice versa, we're off to at least a positive start.<P>Blending kids is not something either of us are going to do too quickly. But it's important for me to understand that he will probably get custody of his kids full time. That's ok with me, and when it comes time to live together, I will be happy to have some boys mixed in with my girls . Our kids are all the same ages.<P>As far as the finances go, he and I sat down to decide how it would work financially if we lived together (something we had planned ), and looked at what we both make, and pay out. This is how I know what he pays. He pays her plenty so that she doesn't have to work full time. He also didn't force the house to be sold, she can have a time period to buy it out before its sold, and in the meantime, he pays on it too so he gets half when it's sold. He pays half the medical bill, not single minus family cost, so he even still pays a portion of her medical. These are things that he was not bound to do, but did for the sake of his kids. If their mom struggles, so will the kids. <P>He is a good person like this and I am glad for that. Especially when I get $33 a week for each of my kids, and I struggle, its very hard not to compare my lousy ex compared to him.<P>Anyway, Nellie, you probably do have more life experiences than me. And I welcome any input you have, but understand, that your choice to wait for H is one that I don't disrespect, and my choice is to move on. <P>It's hard for me, it's hard to be with someone who is technically married on paper, but what brings me peace is that it's almost over. If I were to tell him let's take a break until your divorced, he'd be divorced tomorrow, I am positive, but I'm not going to do that either, because then I might feel responsible in some weird way. It's hard to learn to trust again after being cheated on by exH. It's worse to be betrayed by someone you fall in love with and face the possibility of losing him, but realizing that he is such a good person and not really in his character to be a continual betrayer. I am confident that if I met him after he was more healed it wouldn't have happened. But I'm not going to walk away, and I can't help my feelings for him. <P>I haven't felt love from my ex anywhere close to what I feel from bf and for bf. I see how his personality, tends to work so much better with mine than my ex. We are so compatible in so many ways, that it's almost too perfect . We don't fight , we have talks. We understand what the other is feeling and thinking, and we just feel a sense of peace when we are together. But it comes with a high price of dealing with ex's, divorces, and a lot of pain along the way. <P>The reason I post still here,is that there are others here who are experienced in blended families, step parenting, dealing with ex's, and I need their advice. I would tell anyone new here not to date too soon like I did, and to wait til someone is divorced to get involved. Just like they told me, but you have to learn for yourself I guess.<P>When I met bf, he was working on divorce, and his ex switched it to seperation to slow us down, she thought he was so infatuated he might propose, who knows. It would have been too soon, but it slowed us down thats for sure, which is all turning out to be a blessing in disguise anyway.<P>Just remember that I am not the OW in your situation, and my situation is still very different from yours. I came here at the same time as you, and for the same reason as you, and I just took a different path along the way. <P><BR>

Oh Nellie, <P>I don't disagree with you -- depression played a major role in the demise of my past marriage. David was (and still is) MOST CERTAINLY depressed (undiagnosed), and I was also depressed (diagnosed). <P>Right before the divorce became final, he went to the doctor (GP) and got some meds. He told me he was taking them, but he still had those ups and downs. I think (and maintained all along) that he needed (and still needs, desperately!) therapy. <P>Yes, this was one of my "demands" to continue working on the marriage. Total LB in MB-lingo, but I insisted. He refused, and never has done anything other than taken the meds (off and on, at best).<P>You are right, Nellie: I did love him ~ I adored him, actually. But, as I've said only a kazillion times, I just hit the wall and couldn't go any other way but AWAY. <P>There are days I wish him nothing but good things, and there are days when I could personally wring his neck. I try not to trash him here, but I could, and sadly have, on occasion. Depression is a "reason" for the affairs, but it wasn't the affairs that finally killed our marriage. You know that, I suspect. Like the grieving process, I'd gone through all the emotions, and ended up at acceptance... but in my case, I think acceptance = apathy. Once I got "there" I could never go backwards again.

Bonnet,<P>When something offends me, it rarely lasts very long, but honestly you didn't say anything that I didn't need to hear. You're right, it would have been unnecessary.<P>It is over. It was 3 months ago. It's time to heal and learn from it, which is all we can do. Take all this as a learning experience.<P>I have a lot to be thankful for, I have 3 healthy kids, I can support myself, and I have someone who treats me in the most amazing way, except for that month of he!!, but its' completely understandable and I'm glad we are past that. I can't help but love him more for the father that he is and the person that he is to have made sure he tried one last time to be sure in his heart he'd have no regrets. <P>In the end, he has the truth, he can stop blaming himself so much and he also found someone who makes him happy too.<P>We are very thankful that we have each other and the type of relationship so far that has grown the way it has.<P>We were at a clam bake this past weekend, and another function, and everyone who sees us together comments on how happy we make each other, or how comfortable we are with each other. I met a lot of his friends, and saw his dad and step mom for the third time too. Everyone was very happy that he didn't lose me over what happened, and I also found out, his exW is basically banned from the family for what she did to their kids (meaning bf and brother). So it brought me a little closure too because its still hard not to be fearful that I could lose him. It is nice to be supported by his friends and family.<P>I'm trying to keep positive, and live to be a good person and not manipulate or play games. I also found out the boys have been asking about me more and more. This past weekend, was one of the biggest so far in the terms of healing and growing closer, and learning and loving more. I am proud of all the progress I made on my own, and we made as a couple. I even see him making a lot of individual progress too. <P>I have learned so much here. I have learned that anyone who is human can cheat. I learned to understand some people who left their first marraige, and I can see how its not because they were a bad person (like I liked to believe about my ex at first), they are just as good inside as the rest of us. I have learned that OW in my marraige is not as bad as I thought and I can deal with her if I have to. I learned that even though I never cheated, and swear I won't, I learned to see the signs when I might be getting close and know how to go to the man in my life and be honest about what I need. I wish I knew this stuff when I was married, but I didn't. I'm going to make sure I learn as much as I can, and although I'm not sure that I'll ever actually "marry" again, I will make a committment, live together and grow old with someone, hopefully my bf, and down the road, maybe I'll change my mind about marriage, but right now, I am peaceful with how my life is going.<P>I wish bf's ex didn't dislike me simply because he loves me. I wish she wouldn't use the kids to hurt him but its backfiring and I don't want to see that either. I just want to learn to get along, the same way I have to get along with OW. It is a lot easier to not have to worry about your kids when they are with your ex when the OW is not out to take them from you. I don't want his ex to think of me as OW, but I don't want her to be threatened by me either as far as her kids go, I will always treat them the way I treat my own.<P>The only thing I am scared about now, is when it all comes together and the kids meet, and we "blend" in that way. I know it won't be easy, but I know I can learn to do it right.<P>Hugs, Dana<P>PS in 2 weeks, we go away for 9 days and I can't wait! <BR>