Dana,<P>that last post was very well thought out. You have grown tremendously, and i bet that you will be much happier in the future, not just because of the new BF, but because of the internal growth that has taken place. Isuspect that your decision making ability will all of a sudden become easier, because you understand and see the intangibles, and know how to effectively deal with problems.<P>good luck and best wishes,<P>Its too bad you didn't come to Nashville, it would have been fun to meet you.<P>I think you have earned your graduation diploma from MB.<P>Hip hip Hooray!<BR>Hip hip Hooray!<P>

Hey Dana.....glad to hear that you and your boyfriend are back on the right track. So many things are similar in regards to ex's and blending. My husband's ex is a good mom and her and my husband manage to co-parent pretty darn well together. His kids spend a lot of time at our home and we recently purchased a large enough home for them to have their own bedrooms/things when they are with us. They have their own toys, bikes etc...and enjoy being at our house. My kids live with us full-time and my ex is one of those men that lets his girlfriend decide when he should and should not see his kids (and it's usually NOT). Between him and her they pull a lot of things that your boyfriends stbx pulls. I know.....it's not fun. My husband also takes care of his ex very well financially. She has a new home, two new vehicles, travels a lot etc...He also pays above and beyond his required cs, all of their medical insurance costs and spousal maintenance despite the fact that she's colleged educated and makes a large income herself. He'll always have those obligations until his kids are grown and we've always known that. As far as who comes first (earlier discussed in this topic), I think that depends on the situation. In our case, in our home, WHO'S kids are the FIRST kids from the first marriage??? His? Mine? Those kids are treated equally and I'd never take from one to give to the other. The kids are not thought of as first or second too ea. other. When a man (or woman) chooses to not see their kids for their visitation it's easy to blame the other woman or other man. For me, I see both sides. I see my husband very involved in his children's lives and I see my ex not involved with his kids. I could very easily blame his girlfriend since she encourages his behavior but in the end the kids are his and they are his responsibility. He's a grown man and his behavior is reflecting what type of a man/father he really is. As far as the relationship with our ex's....we'll you know what mine is like-but, like I stated before, my husband and his ex co-parent pretty well together. Does he run over and mow her lawn or fix broken things for her? No. Do they chit-chat about personal things together? No. When they talk it's about the kids, he know's nothing about her personal life and she know's nothing about his. They are no longer married and they have now been divorced almost as long as they were married.

Tom - thank you for the advice. I know you've paid close attention to much of this from the very beginning and understand my need to understand and forgive . I really do know I got in too soon, and I know there were mistakes along the way, but its not too late to fix them or learn from them. I do feel a little more confident already in my decisions that I make. I'm getting to the point where I'll ask trusted, accomplished people for advice on a certain situation and not take it personal when some people don't support my decisions.<P>Bonnie, I almost wrote to you this morning but I got too busy. I'm so glad to hear from you! <P>Yes, I am on such a similar path it's scary (but maybe mine will end up like yours, I do hope so). You also have been involved way back in November when I struggled with certain issues, and you've been here since I got here! <P>I also see 2 sides to everything. I see me, the woman who got cheated on, left for another woman and struggle daily to get by. But I do it and I succeed each day. I don't want anyone to pity me or feel sorry for me, I can take care of myself without ex's help. <P>I also see a wonderful guy who's wife cheated on him long before I came around. She cheated over and over. She lied. Treated him bad. And he is a great dad and the most affectionate and doting type of person I ever met. He makes me feel special and loved. I see how he pays above and beyond and I don't regret or worry about that. It is just who he is. But I see it on the other side, as you, that some people don't see, that its not easy for men either to pay a ton of money in support when their ex's are not taking their full load either. <P>I agree with what you said. Treat the kids equal. Don't take from one and give to another. No his kids, my kids, if we were to live together. And how you explained how your h gets along with ex, I agree thats how it should be. Talk for the kids. No mowing lawns, fixing things, discussing things in our personal lives. <P>You have given me great advice many times before in the start of this relationship. I know that he and I have a great chance. I know that we could have a good life and a great family together one day. But there has to be a line drawn where the marriages/divorce are in the past, and our relationship is the primary focus. And each of us come before our ex's. And our kids come first and we respect that. As long as we live seperate it will continue to be a challenge, but I do think somewhere, I feel a future, a long way down the road. If I didn't, I certainly wouldn't be here still! ALso, didn't you have to wait for your H divorce to be final before you could marry? I seem to remember this.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Yes Dana I had to wait for my divorce to be final before getting married to my second husband. It's not because I was dragging my feet, my ex was fighting about anything and everything so there was delays all over the place. My divorce drug on way longer then most. Dana you and your boyfriend will have an advantage just as long as the communication stays open between the two of you. In regards to the kids before either one of us says a word to the other child we stop and ask our self if it were our bio child would we say and do the same thing. My step kids do not live with us full-time though like mine do so if your boyfriend ends up with custody your life will be a little different then mine. I would think having custody on both ends would be even more difficult. Our kids are not together every day so when they do see each other they are very excited. The girls are the same age and get a long fantastic! It would be different if they were together all of the time though I'm sure. I understand how paying above and beyond bothers the NCP paying it too. My husband pays more then our house pmt. (he pays 2,000 per mo.). It's not the amt. that is the issue with him though. When they first divorced she needed a new car. He was concerned about her being able to afford one so he offered spousal so that she could afford a new car and insurance. He also agreed to 100% of the daycare costs and he didn't fight her for anything. He didn't even have his own attorney. Well, right after their divorce she got a higher paying job with a company car (so no pmt. or insurance). She also had it worded in the divorce papers that the cost of daycare would not go down for my husband even if it goes down for her. So, the kids are in school full-time and he's still paying based on the amt. when they were not even IN school. He has told her that she is the only one that can waive this but she won't. He feels that he'd never be there to help her out again because she took advantage of him. In the long run she hurt herself. But, I gotta go for today. Have a good night.

One could point out that the reason BonnieSept had to "wait for her divorce to be final" was that she, as she has admitted previously, had an affair and left her H, in that order. But it is not PC to mention that, I suppose.<P>Dana,<P>I feel it makes it even worse that your bf could "be divorced tomorrow," if he chose, as opposed to some mandatory waiting period. <P>I don't find the financial arrangements that you mentioned particularly generous. For example, in my state it is required by law that the NCP pay half the family medical premiums. <P>If you did not feel threatened by his wife, you would not be bothered by his fixing things around the house and hearing about her personal life, anymore than you would be bothered by his doing such things for a relative. <P>I obviously don't belong here. There is nowhere to go to find support for those who believe that marriage is forever, but are not Christian.

Nellie,<P>I already know Bonnie's story, but she has a lot to offer here as well as you. Like I've said in many posts, we all have different backgrounds and different situations. <P>When I first found out I was betrayed, I had tons of questions as to what goes thru the WS head and she helped me understand how it felt from a different angle. She has always been willing to help me with any questions I've had along the way. <P>You also have a lot to offer. The general point of Marriage Builders, is to come here to save your marriage. It's why most of us came here. You should not feel you are in the wrong place, but also try to be open to the fact that not everyone will take the same path as you. There are a lot of people who come to mind when I think of people who held true to their marriages til the end , and then some, like Jim, and Chris, and Mike. They have shared our pain but continue to post positive posts and grow incredibly as individuals.<P>But about a year ago, the harley's made a divorcing/divorced site because General questions was getting jammed up. As it turned out, many of the "oldies/regulars" here that I remember the first time I got to this sight, were all venturing into divorce. We fought it and didn't want it. As time went on, many healed as best they could (not that we ever heal completely), but have also ventured into dating, and new relationships. Its' natural for us to have questions and seek support also. Many of us, still take time to try to reply to new people and keep up with old people from the board, but this place is for us all.<P>Now that I've said all that I forgot your reply and I can't click back to it. <P>Let me try to remember what I can. WHere we live if there is no grounds for divorce, there is a one year waiting period. If there is adultry or cruel treatment, you can go for one right away, but it still takes about 9 months to get thru. If both people agree, which at this point, in my case, they both do, it would just be over. <P>Of course I am going to be insecure about his ex. I would be insecure about any ex wife for anyone I might have dated. It is something I've worked on from the beginning. But in the same respect, after being cheated on, I'm going to be insecure about anyone until I have better experiences . <P>I most certainly do not want him mowing her lawn, because it's not his job or responsibility. I mow my own lawn. I'm not helpless. I own my own house. It's my choice. If I couldn't handle it , I'd move to a townhouse. I don't ask bf to mow my lawn, NOR would I ask my exH to do it. I didn't ask him to do it while we were seperated either. <P>I should point out that she doesn't ask him to mow the lawn anymore anyhow, so this is a wasted issue to spend time on. But yes she used to ask him , while she was sleeping with his brother, so if you ask me, thats a pretty nasty thing to do.<P>As for the med premiums, yes it's standard, but he pays his own policy which is very much seperate from the policy of ex and kids. Which in our state, means she pays family minus single split in half. So she pays half the kids medical and he pays half the kids medical. Not he pays his own medical and one half of hers mixed in with the kids. <P>The laws should be the same by every state for starters. But they're not. But that's a whole seperate issue.<P>The way I see it, I was very patient with him and many of these issues while they went on. But as I stated in the beginning of this post, those issues are gone. Done. We've been past them. He doesn't mow her lawn, he doesn't do her favors. Not because I put my foot down, threw a fit, manipulated, or even said a word, but because he found out the real truth to one of the betrayals. That was her doing. Whether he is angry with her at this point, doesn't have a thing to do with me. Our relationship is seperate, but we tell each other everything , so I know what I do by him telling me, not me demanding things of him. He thanks me all the time because he figures things out on his own then asks me where I get the strength to deal with it all. <P>I don't really understand why your taking my situation so personal here. Like I said before, in my case, his ex is WS. I am not an OW. I was a BS just like you. I am not going to appologize for meeting him when I did, or because he loves me. That happened when she was off doing her thing. <P>But I'm here now, I'm in love, I'm happy , and I'm learning to understand what it means to be the second love to someone. I'm used to being my ex's first love for 11 years. This is not easy but what choice do I have? I'm only 28 still every guy I've met , has an ex wife, or kids out there. <P>I'm learning how to be a girlfriend after being a wife. Another strange feeling.<P>I'm learning how to live apart and be in love compared to living with the man I loved for 11 years. <P>I'm learning about co-parenting with my ex and even though we have that freaky love hate relationships, we are doing a good job at it.<P>I'm learning how to be "friendly" towards OW because she is going to be my kid's step mom and I have to deal with her for a long time now.<P>I'm learning how to do the best job I can with bf's kids, in case I wind up as a step parent, I want to have a good foundation and do things the right way. Which means, never bad mouth their mom, be friendly to her, treat his kids as I treat my own, etc, I'm not very far on learning about that yet.<P>I'm learning how to teach my kids about divorce and want them to understand that life is not doomed for them. I want them to know that even though life is different, we'll all be ok and we'll all get thru it together as a family. <P>I'm learning to figure out why I feel I'd never marry again because I want my kids to see me marry again rather than live with someone, but in my heart, I'm not sure, still another issue to work on. <P>I'm learning about God in a class at church, and learning how I can bring more faith in my life, and my relationship and my kids' life too.<P>And in the process of all this learning, I'm healing in my own way.

Hi Dana,<P>You know what? I have been sitting here all the ding-dong day today, and posting all over, even though I did plan on leaving {hahahahahahaha} about three weeks ago. Yeah, I was never gonna come back because the support I recieve is balanced with the meany-grams ~ although I haven't been outright attacked for quite some time {knock on wood}. <P>It is so hard trying to explain and re-explain my situation... to give time lines so that people understand. Even some who know the time lines don't agree, but they try...<P>...sigh...<P>See, my fiance lives in a place where that year-long physical seperation is manditory before the divorce can even be filed. In CA, you can file and six months after service the divorce is final unless it is contested. Period. But not here. <P>I don't know why or how your BF can make his divorce final tomorrow, but I do wonder why he hasn't done that? That's my only question, and don't feel you need to answer ~~ which, by the way, is the reason I'm writing this post, so work with me here. <P>I'm writing to say that you need to stop trying to convince anyone of your motives, or that of your boyfriend. Let's face it, you know your situation, and of COURSE, it won't be appluded by everyone here ~ just as mine has not been. <P>In my case, I could not share many of the details because of the people involved (as in. they used to post here and people know them and I won't put any of us in a "he said, she said" situation}. There ARE CIRCUMSTANCES, and only we know them fully, just as you know your circumstances as nobody else. <P>To get back to my original point -- only God knows if I'll succeed -- I've been here toooooo much today, and I don't know why. You have been here a LOT today too, and mostly to defend yourself and your choices. You can say you aren't an OW all you want, but just like me, you will be called one in this current situation nonetheless, because HE IS STILL MARRIED legally (and some would say morally)... just like my fiance was when I moved in with him. Those who understand just do, and those who don't will never understand. <P>Doesn't it hurt your spirit to have to keep trying to explain? It hurts mine... sigh.. it really does. <P>We need to find a way to discuss our very real situations in a safe, understanding enviornment. Those who disagree with our situations don't realize that we will figure out our truth, maybe not in their time, but eventually. Maybe we know our truth already... and we choose to reach out anyway. <P>I wish all of us, and that means EVERYONE, peace, love and compassionate understanding... Lord knows we have ALL had too much pain in our lives.<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Dana,<P>My co-workers and I share information about our personal lives, we help each other out, we do favors for each other, yet most of them I would just consider acquaintances. Basically, we are "neighborly" to each other - yet you think it is wrong for your bf to treat his wife that well. I think it is only basic human kindness for him to help his wife out, to fix things around the house, to mow the lawn if she and he wish to. It is completely irrelevant that you mow your own lawn. I mow my own lawn too, and I often mowed it when my H was here as well. I think it is horrible that your bf is not willing to "do her any favors." I would certainly not hesitate to do favors for my H, and I don't think he should hesitate to do favors for me. <P>It really seems to me that you are viewing your bf's wife as the OW, to whom the no contact, or very limited contact re the kids, rule should apply.

Sheryl,<P>He is legally seperated. That is good enough for me. That turns into a divorce on the date indicated in the papers. Which, my divorce took about 9 months to work thru. Legal seperations have that 1 year waiting period. So whats the extra 3 months going to be anyhow? When I met him, it was going to be a divorce so I didn't ever think it would take so long, but his ex dragged it out (like mine). What I meant was, that during a legal seperation, you can still go ahead and file for divorce and get past the waiting period of a year with those causes (adultry, cruel treatment). It won't be final tomorrow, it would be a matter of weeks to get in front of a judge though and all the stipulations in the seperation are agreed on, so it is relatively simple, just coming up with the extra cash to pay for it is the harder part. <P>He is very focused on this trip he we are taking and right now, that is going to be another huge healing experience for us, and I think money that is far more well spent than paying the extra cash to turn the papers into something different. <P>All I meant was, if I were to say, this is REALLY bothering me, I want to cool it til your divorced, he would respect my wishes and move it along rather than the waiting period. But at this point, that would be me manipulating because now its gone this far without him being divorced. Believe me, had I known from day one it would take so long, NEVER would I have let my guard down. Anyhow, all I meant was, he would switch the status if I wanted him to, but I don't want that decision on my shoulders. <P>When I get a little down, it pops into my head, but then I think about how he is with me every free moment he gets when he's not working, with his kids, doing his sports/band , hobbies. He calls me a few times a day and lets me know what his day is like or I page him if I need anything. We spend a few days a week here with him at my house depending on our schedules, and I stay at his house too when I have no kids. I am thankful for the way he's done what he could to help me learn to trust again, and quite honestly, after what he's been thru, and what I've been thru, the stress of court and bringing up these issues that recently came out, I don't even want to see him go thru that misery of reliving it once again this soon . <P>But I'll defend myself til I'm blue in the face when it comes to anyone calling me an OW. I never set out to ruin a marriage or break anyone up. At this point, his ex has done so much damage that not only bf, but his family would never accept her anyhow, so she has helped bring closure to this all.<P>Anyway, I think Nellie is the only one who is comparing me to an OW here. In a post a while ago, TS actually told me he was a potential husband of sorts somewhere way down the road for the fact that he didn't walk away without trying. I was amazed that she gave me some great support after we've disagreed in the past. I dont' want to bring someone up who isn't participating in our discussion, and don't want to start arguments either, just saying that out of anyone here, she was the last person I expected to hear that from. I respect her views just as much as anyone else's here and when I've been hurt I could see more clearly some of her views.<P>I was going to leave MB myself . But I can't. Some people here, have become like second family to me. There are people who don't even post much here anymore and I wonder how they are doing. It is a blessing to have such a place and find so much love and support that comes from so much pain and heartache originally. I hope anyone I post to knows by now that if I'm not around for a while they can email me anytime for support.<P>And Sheryl, congratulations on your engagement. Life is full of choices and decisions. I know your decisions were not ones that came easy or without pain. Don't let the bad comments bring you down. If there is a topic that you are worried about bringing up for fear of being flamed, maybe just email it to the "group" of people you usually talk to for advice, support or hugs and keep me on your list too.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

{{{{{{Dana}}}}}}},<BR> I think since what has happened in your sitiution soon to be x-wife is damn lucky he does anything for her that dosnt relate to the kids.What she did to him is unforgivable.She not only split her family up by her A,she split his relationship up with his brother.I understand that the brother has a big part in this but i believe she knew just what she was doing.You've been thru hell and im glad you have finally reached some peace in your life.Everyones beliefs are different and you have to follow your heart.If we all had the same opinions on everything what kind of world would we have.What works for some dosnt work for others ,that makes neither right or wrong.You and only you have to live your life.Live it as YOU see fit...<P>------------------<BR>Tracy<p>[This message has been edited by Traci493 (edited June 07, 2001).]

Dana, <P>I have followed you as you have grown on the boards as well. And, only you know what is right for you and your kids. You have met a wonderful person, and you both deserve happiness always. <P>Nellie, <BR>This is a place for all. While you have chosen a path that works for you, others have chosen a different path. Divorce is not easy, it is an ugly thing to have to go through and put our kids through it. You have many supporters here that honor your viewpoint and admire you being able to cope with your difficult situation. <P>It is just a reality that there will be many complications and trials when divorced and deciding what path your life will take. Many here hold on to the desire to keep their marriages despite the other spouse wanting out. Many here have chosen to look at other relationships. many are still feeling out what is right for them. Neither is wrong, nor right for everyone. The issues to face are very complicated no matter which way we go. Xspouses, kids, x inlaws, friends, etc are all in the mix. <P>But, we all can share ideas and advice that may help us sort out some of these issues. I believe that is way the Halreys started this board. We are coming from a mutual place, but with our own individual concerns and desires for recovery. So, there is a place here for both those who want to continue to work on their marriage even though they are divorced, and those who have "moved on" to hoping for another relationship in the future. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Susan

This is not about "different paths" or whether or not it is ok to get into a new relationship AFTER divorce. This is certainly not about "following your heart" which is of course how the WS got into this mess in the first place. If they had followed their heads instead, most of us wouldn't have ended up on this board.<P>Completely aside from the issue of dating before divorce is the issue of how you treat an ex-spouse. I think there is something terribly, terribly wrong if someone would treat their neighbors and their co-workers with more consideration and willingness to go out of their way to help them out than they would their ex-spouse. <P>Another issue is that a number of researchers have found that the quality of the relationship between a father and his children is in large measure determined by the father's new gf/wife. I have seen a lot of signs in Dana's posts that seem to me to indicate resentment about how her bf treats his wife, and I strongly suspect that this is going to get worse over time, and it WILL affect the kids - not to mention the fact that how much child/spousal support someone pays to their ex-spouse is NONE of the business of the new gf, OW, or wife.

I didn't ask about how much he pays her, he told me when HE asked me about us living together. I did resent the way he treated her to an extent. When you don't live together and you move to another relationship you don't do things like that for each other any longer. BF didn't want my ex doing those things for me any more than I didn't like him doing them either. Again, both past issues. He doesn't do anything for her because she cheated and is a bad person who now has to fend for herself. I don't resent her for what he pays her, she has a good life because of his generosity and for as generous as he is to her, he is just as generous with me, it's just how he is. I don't resent her for what's gone on in the past, because we both did meet too soon back then, and we both learned a lot. He doesn't do anything for her, thru his choice, and his opinion of her has forever changed for what she has done, not what I told him. As for his kids, he is a great dad who takes them often and will continue to take them and have custody of them one day too, so I will have no effect on them losing their daddy in any way whatsoever. <P>I read somewhere yesterday that 33% of everyone in the population is either a step parent, step child, or step sibling of some sort. It also said that 75% of the population will possibly be in a step relation of some sort during their life. Very sad and very scary. Not sure where I read that, but anyway, I'm not concerning myself with this debate any longer Nellie, our situations are too different to see eye to eye anyhow.<P>I'm very happy with my bf, with my life and with the life that we share together at this point. I hope you find happiness too.<BR>

Hi all!<P>Dana,<P>I probably should have started a thread but here goes.<P>you posted:<P>"he doesn't listen to her life story anymore. No need for him to mow her lawn, she is capable, just like I do my own"<P>I see where you are coming from.<P>Could you ladies give me some perspective on this:<P>I'm divorced and dating a person who has been divorced for 14 years. He had custody and his three kids (19-23) are all on their own now. My two are both married and parents (24-27). His ex has "favors" she asks of him weekly. It isn't an event, it is a pattern. <P>Keep in mind he is 44 and I am 46. He hadn't dated anyone prior to me longer than 6 weeks and that was only a couple of times. We have been seeing each other 8 months (where no woman has been before) I keep being told their history is, "I don't want him but I don't want anyone else to have him either". I should be way beyond "bothered" by this. As I am very independent, wouldn't ask for help, call it pride I suppose. Yes, her being so "helpless" makes me a tiny bit crazy. After the kids are gone from our homes, what is your take on this?<P>Thanks girls,<P>Ragamuffin<P>P.S. Dana, keep that ol' chin up!

I once read a book entitled, "Getting in Touch With Your Inner B!tch". <P>The basic premise was that often we want to say <B>"NO!"</B><BR>but we (as women) have been taught to be helpful, kind, and cooperative. Therefore we end up doing things which greatly inconvenience us, are distasteful or emotionally hurtful, and which actually allow other people to take advantage of us.<P>The one thing the author wanted to teach was that, if you can't bring yourself to say "NO!" then you can learn to say, "I don't think so." Who has the right to argue with what you think. "I'm sorry, I don't have time to drive 30 minutes out of my way to feed your cat every night this week while you go on vacation." "I'm sorry, I have plans to wear my new silk blouse." "I'm sorry, I can't come repair that light fixture this week. You might try Handymen are Us. Perhaps they could come at a convenient time." <P>Folks, if he doesn't want to help her, he can learn to say no. You don't have to be ugly about it. <P>I'm working on it myself.<P>However, in defense of men helping their x, that is awfully kind of him. I suppose you could look at it as the God-centered way to behave. But I don't know that she is his responsibility. But it is better for the children if they get along well. But if he had moved on emotionally, I would think he could learn to say, "I don't think I can<BR>take care of that this week."

Hi Rags!!<P>Well, my take is that if he didn't want to do anything for her, he should tell her that. If he doesn't mind, then it is up to him. Now, YOU may not like it, but that is where at this time, you have a say in it as in you can put up with it, or discuss it wiht him, or not see him anymore.<P>But, if you are thinking about any future with him, and this bothers you, make sure to bring it up NOW, rather than when you marry him.<P>The man that I am seeing now had a really bad divorce, and even seeing her turns his blood cold. The son lives with him now, but for the first three yrs he lived with his mom and the communication was so bad that he would call to talk to his son and she would not let him. <P>I, on the other hand, talk to my x regularly about the kids, how things are going, etc. I would never ask him for anything unless I REALLY needed his help, though. He is just undependable on such things. And, we are divorced. I can stand on my own feet. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

Unfortunately, it is a lot easier to "stand on your own two feet" when you can afford to hire someone to do the things you can't do yourself. There are a lot of things I can do - I'd like to see the OW stuff a prolapsed uterus back in a sheep in the dark - but I'm not ashamed to admit that there are things my H can do better, and a lot of things just require two adults to do. <P>My H left me in an antique, high maintenance house in one of the most expensive areas of the country, with the responsibility for six kids 24/7, with outdated job skills, and then promptly got laid off and started paying only a small amount of child support. Finding a rental is near impossible - the last place I looked at was rented to a family who offered to pay MORE than the landlord was asking. <P>When I needed to climb up on the roof to fix something in the dead of winter, and he was here anyway to take the kids to dinner, it would have been nice for him to have offered to hold the d*** ladder. Decent people help family members in need, no matter how much jealous, controlling OW's/gfs/new wives object. You may not have a sexual relationship with your ex-spouse, but they will always be family, and no one can erase that.

Nellie - mostly I lurk around here but I have noticed a few things about your posts.<P>You have the right to be angry. I was angry for a long time, myself. But I think you have gone to great lengths to nurse your anger.<P>And your anger is your problem. You don't need to bumping it on everyone else.<P>I highly recommend some counseling for you and, if you have let your children see the high quantity and quality of your anger, for them. Trust me, it would be money well spent.

bluebelle,<P>I have no idea who you are, or what your circumstances are. There is NOTHING wrong with being angry at people who are doing wrong, who are hurting other people. That is not misdirected anger, that is CORRECTLY directed anger. I do not think I have said anything hurtful or cruel, or called anyone names. But if I read something that I think is wrong, I am not going to refrain from commenting on it just because I risk having someone complain. <P>What is wrong and harmful is to try to stuff anger inside, where it festers.<P>And btw, I saw two counselors after my H left, both of whom were FAR angrier at him than I was.<P>Have you ever seen the Sesame Street bit where the goat sings, "It's not bad to get mad?" My kids (and I) didn't get why Sesame Street seemed to need to emphasize that - after all, three year olds usually excel at getting mad. I have realized since then that some families (like my H's FOO) don't allow the expression of anger - and the kids usually end up either depressed, or they hold their anger in till it explodes uncontrollably. <P>My kids feel free to get angry at each other, and at me. They can yell at each other; they can yell at me. They can tell me I'm an idiot if they want. I don't mind - they are free to speak their minds, even loudly, as long as they don't hit each other.<P>Anger is not a bad thing. In fact, research has shown that the speed of recovery from tragedy is often highly correlated with the degree of anger the people involved feel. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited June 11, 2001).]