I only lurk now as my marriage is pretty stagnant. I will admit that over the last year, I have not contributed much in the way of helping it to improve. Which leads me to my question: When did you know you HAD to divorce?<P>Long story short, my husband has had 3 affairs. I discovered the last two. Last one ended almost 3 years ago (as far as I know) He has always refused counseling and I am pretty certain that he has a problem with alcohol (he would never admit it)<P>Over the last 3 years, many of our interactions have improved. First, in an attempt to help the marriage, but now I just don’t feel the same way about him. Its not just the common residual effects of an affair, but I don’t feel much of anything for him.<P>We can co-exist in a peaceful environment, as long as he gets to do what he wants to do with out any concern for me. He’s a conflict avoider and when I bring up anything that bothers me, he runs or paints a picture as if “that’s not what happened at all”<P>Basically, I have no more fight left in me. I don’t want to fight anymore for this marriage. Also, because of his repeated betrayals and disloyalty in other areas, I cannot allow myself to open up my heart to him. Believe me, I’ve tried to take small steps in that direction, but he never fails to again dishonor me in one way, shape or form.<P>What is also revealing to me is that our oldest (who is 11) even notices his actions and speaks up about them. “Dad, you can’t go to my (fill in the blank) but if your friends want you to go (fill in the blank), you go with them” I am concerned now about the male role model in her life and what she (and my youngest) will think about what role a husband plays in a relationship.<P>I’m long past the initial aftershock of the affair(s), so I know that I am not making a hasty decision at all. So for those who chose to divorce, what were you feeling at the time you made the decision to divorce?<P>Any thoughts would be appreciated.<P>Enlightened<P><BR>

My ex-H had many affairs too.... at first, after the first three, we did rebuild, and I seemed to love him more than before (if that were possible).<P>Then, when I had an affair (in year 18 of the marriage, coinsiding with my 40th birthday) all hell broke loose. It didn't matter that I ended the very-short affair, that one hop in the sack was enough to show me what I'd become (a whore, a loser) or that I wanted to die because of my choice. He decided right then and there to re-enter the adultery game and "get me back" with some more affairs. <P>There came a time, and I can't pinpoint it exactly, when I simply "hit the wall"... in the past, I'd come to love him more through our struggles. That deep, all-encompassing love just left. Yes, there was still a "kind of" love there, but the love that I felt for him was forever gone. Yes, I cried a lot, yes, I wanted the marriage to work and to rebuild, but he refused to do the necessary work, and without it (therapy, meds for his depression) I could not love him the way I had before, nor in a renewed way.<P>That said, I believe that there will always be a soft spot in my heart for David. He is sad and pathetic and he always knew how to reach in a tug on my heartstrings... but now, my heart just aches for him as a sufferer in this journey, not as a man I am in love with.<P>The wall... that's when you know... when there is no other way to go but away. You'll know. If you have to ask, I suspect you aren't there yet.<P>Best wishes,<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

I tried about 5 different attempts at reconciliation and x never showed any interest. On the last attempt, om had publiclly dumped her at work and she was still in their apartment, she would not even committ to not dating, and she showed some signs for about a week, but then she grew cold and distant and when I asked she confirmed she was back seeing om. <P>Thats when I made the decision to end it. I went and saw my lawyer the next day and restarted the papers she had started, but I had stopped for this attempt. I was suspicious from the beginning of this reconciliation and told my lawyer to hold onto the papers and that I would check in with him in a month and pay him then. That lasted 2 weeks.<P>I guess I read and believed the material I read about when a woman decides the relationship is over then it is over. I couldn't take the lying anymore. This was so out of character for her that it killed any love I had for her.

Enlightened, you told my story. My husband is an alcoholic and behaves just as you described, and worse. We have been separated since last July because the level of abuse in our home was escalating toward physical level. We went to counseling, which was a farce. I complained about his abusive control and manipulations, but all he did was repackage himself to look different. So, I said I wouldn't take him back unless he got sober. We went roundy-round on this for months, each extremely stubborn over the ETOH issue. My husband broke ties with me by email (how brave), and spent 2 weeks vilifying me in a spate of hate mail. The rejection was traumatic, but it was then I knew it was time to divorce. Plus, I has a pronounced feeling he had another woman on board his hellish, lying life...and I was correct. He's had other affairs. Amazingly, the OW's reminded me of me. But, I can't say much about his male affairs. They seem to be somewhat assorted, and some were very, very young.<P>Thanks for asking,<BR>Nell

If you have kids, and are not fighting, it will take awhile, but do hang in there. Sometimes, it takes you going on vacations by yourself, doing stuff by yourself, to get your H feeling like he wants to contribute.<P>I would stay until the kids were going to college, as you risk very long term affects, you lose a certain amount of control over their development, and there is always the possibility that he comes around.<P>A two or three week vacation away from home, traveling to a far away place, like in a pop up camper, or bigger, can do wonders to reestablish a relationship. You have to get the two of you together with no outside escape routes, with a common activity, like traveling and exploring.<P>good luck.<BR>

Thanks for responding.<P>Sheryl, you said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That deep, all-encompassing love just left.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is what I feel now. We have been together for 21 years, married for 17. I still care about him as a person, but I don't feel that deep love for him. Much of this also has to do with the "love is a choice" Because of a lot of things, I choose not to love him because I don't want to be hurt anymore. Much like a form of "protection"<P>RWD,<P>I also cannot take the lying and manipulation and pure disrespect. I once thought this was out of character for him, but I have now come to believe that this is, in fact, his character. Accepting that has made me turn the corner.<P>I can't speak for all women, but in my case, when its over, it will be over, forever. I can say that because I have hung in here, much longer than I should have. I have tried when he didn't. My family and friends have told me over and over that he is just the type that won't realize what he's lost until its gone.<P>Enlightened

Nell and WIFTT,<P>We were posting at the same time. Thanks for responding.<P>Nell,<P>The drinking is still very much an "off-limits" topic in our household. He will never admit to any type of problem, so in his mind, any reference to the drinking being an issue is "hogwash" and invalid. Makes dealing with our problems pretty futile. I honestly don't know how to get him to see this problem.<P>WIFTT,<P>You said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would stay until the kids were going to college, as you risk very long term affects, you lose a certain amount of control over their development, and there is always the possibility that he comes around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And that is my biggest concern, the kids. Our daughters are definately "Daddy's Girls" and I know this would affect them tremendously. At this point, I wouldn't even know how to explain to them what is going on with he and I as I would certainly NOT want to taint their view of their father. Sadly, they can see much on their own. "When's Daddy coming home?" "Where is Daddy?" My answer is the truth, "I don't know"<P>Is it better for them to not live with him and not wonder when he's coming home or to live with him and have to ask? This is where I am torn.<P>You're right about the time away, at least for me. We took a trip last month with the kids and yes, just being together without the escapes and distractions was helpful. I could feel myself opening up. <P>But sure enough, as soon as we returned home, it was back to the same routine. It was as if he had to make up time with his friends (as you one would with their family) since he left them for a week!<P>I just don't understand him.<P>Enlightened<P>

<<. I honestly don't know how to get him to see this problem.>><P>It's alcohol. You can't. Trust me, I've tried the hard way. It doesn't work for some individuals, where others may wake up and seek help. Sons of alcoholic fathers have an astoundingly difficult time becoming sober, and are high risks for relapse after relapse. If it was the only issue I was contending with, I'd hang. But, it wasn't. There was some deviate behaviors going on behind my back, and I don't think I should be expected to endure this hardship. My child will be permanently affected if I do stay and he witnesses the abuse and alcohol in our home, for he is the son of an alcoholic father.<P>Getting a life,<BR>Nell<BR>

I knew I HAD to divorce when he told me "Something could really happen with this one." He was romancing his latest one on the net.<P>I said to myself, "How can I let my sons think this is an okay way to let a man treat his wife?" I knew I had to break the cycle.<P>I had been using mb principles -- plan a -- for 18 months when I decided to leave. I gave it my best. As BrambleRose will tell you, with an addictive personality (alcohol in your h's case) these principles allow you to become a doormat and an enabler. But I also know, that all my trying led me to stop loving him. Because I saw that it was all me doing the work and it was never good enough -- except as an excuse for another emotional affair.<P>But I would definittely recommend giving it all you have got before giving up -- but don't give more than you can. Hard balance.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Sons of alcoholic fathers have an astoundingly difficult time becoming sober, and are high risks for relapse after relapse. If it was the only issue I was contending with, I'd hang. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So true! My husband is the son of an alcoholic father and I believe this makes it that much more difficult for him to stop. His dad can't drink the "hard stuff" so he only drinks wine now. They are drinking buddies now...making up for lost time when his Dad was a raging alcoholic I suppose.<P>It's almost as if my H's admitting a problem would force others in his circle to do the same...not gonna happen.<P>Likewise on my end with the "other issues" Don't know that they are all rooted in the alcohol, but certainly have to do with what he learned growing up in an alcoholic's household. I have seen some of these same traits with his siblings (dishonesty, betrayals, conflict avoidance,...)<P>NoraP, you said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I said to myself, "How can I let my sons think this is an okay way to let a man treat his wife?" I knew I had to break the cycle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When my daughter is able to articulate the same things I'm thinking (but won't say out loud around her), I knew it was time to really get off the fence. I worry so about what my daughters will think of marriage and men. <P>I also know what you mean about not loving him. The balance is now tipped way in his favor. It's as we have gradually inched to this place where he takes much more than he gives. That is what has made me stop loving him.<P>Thanks to both of you for responding.<P>Enlightened<P><BR>