Hi, <BR>I need some feedback about visitation. <P>Is reasonable better than restricted? I am concerned that if I try to restrict, he will buck like a bull--EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE BEEN BLIPS ON HIS RADAR SCREEN FOR 14 MONTHS.<P>I would rather leave it like it is and see how much he really tries to see them and if he follows the other criteria that I ask for: no overnighters, alone and not at the place where he commits adultery with the op.<P>thanks , elo

elo,<BR>My x accepted minimum visitation, every other weekend and one night a week. But due to her work schedule, she never has full weekends off, she will work either Fri nite or Sun nite, so she usually doen't haven't them the full weekend. Her schedule varies so we don't have a set day she takes them every week. <P>She gives me her work schedule each month and marks what days she can take the kids. <P>For the past month, my d has been going over on the evening so x can do her hair in the morning for school. I still have to take d to school because x leaves for work at 6:15a. I'm curious to see what happens now that school is out.<P>I buy into the fact that the kids need both parents so liberal visitation is best as long as the children are safe. <BR>As far as keeping the kids away from the op, I guess that depends upon what state you live in. I don't know how you can legally say who you x can associate with once you are divorced, but I wish you the best of luck there.<P>With restricted visitation, as you said, he will be fighting with you all the time. How will that help you recover???? I fought with my x about visitation, she still refuses to give me times for pickup/drop off, and only communicates the stuff through the kids. I quit worryiing about it and my life is smoothing out.<P>Try to keep the kids best interest in mind.<P>Bob

Hi, thanks for reply.<P>Reading about your situation makes me feel uncomfortable.<BR>If we live in two different towns, and he works from<BR>6:00 am to 6 m, and he works weekdends, and he is living with a woman who has two dwi convicions on record, and he has an alcohol background, I do believe that I can ask that my children be protected morally, physcially, emotionally, and financially. <P>I will ask for joint custody based on the past year of neglect, alcohol abuse, the accident he and woman were in<BR>(both drunk and at high speeds--documented in accident report); she filed on against our insurance company and got $25,000 and Bonnie and Clyde were off. he deserted us two times. He got someone to forge my name to two tax returns and he forged my name to a fed and a state refund check.<P>He defied a court order child support judgment. I did not have any money to pay the two housenotes (one a second mortgage was for his gambling debts) and then after 8 months of delinquency while he defied the judgment , he somehow managed to borrow $5000 to pay up the house. Then, they threatened to take away his driver's license if he didn't tell his employer. So, when the garnishment went into effect, I needed the money to pay utilities and gas, and food, clothing, etc. So, now the house is three months behind and his truck is two months behind. He is taking care of the woman and her daughter-houseing an feeding them.<BR>But he wants this child support judgment lowered to 0!<P>Alochol is insidious. Both of them have a dwi background and that is what I will use as my case to obtain sole legal and physical custody--which he gave me when he left but it is not court approved. He deserted us and we have been blips on his radar screen for about 14 months--while he lives in affairland.<P>I will stipulate: no overnights, no visits to that apartment, and he see them alone. His schedule is too full of work for him to see them on a regular basis; three kids, at different ages (16, 14, 11) and one boy and two girls.<P>He will not be able to take all three of them at once and keep them all happy. The 14 year old will not even see him and he has seen the 11 year old for 6 hours in 14 months.<BR>He opted to see our son on a randon and unpredictable basis telling our son to call him instead of trying to set up any type of schedule even around his schedule. He was too busy keeping his soul mate and her daughter accomodated.<P>In fact, my attorney whom I had no choice to retain after my H decided to start and stop the divorce two times, wants to subpoena the woman for June 15. She has a history of drug use and two DWI convictions in Texas. My H has two DWI arrests and a careless operation convictions from the accident he was in when he had the woman in his truck and he was driving 65 mph and drunk--lost control of truck and crashed. He BAC (blood alcohol count as .094%; his had dropped by the time they stuck him wiht the needle; so, got off of the DWI. <P>ON and on and on...<P>I have kept a daily contact log which indicates how many visits he made to our town wiht woman; indicates how many times we saw him in our town and he didn't call or visit;<BR>indicates how many times he did call and compromised the kid's best interest by saying he couldn't make because something else came up. The harassing phone calls when he told the 11 year old about he house issues and called us <BR>"you people" are going to be thrown out of your house!!<P>WEll, do you get my drift now?<P>You were so kind to tell me about you visitation deal?<P>Sorry, I vented but I get carried away.<P>Thanks, elo<P>

Reasonable visitation may work with reasonable people, but since most of our ex's can't seem to be reasonable, I vote for nailing down every detail that you can.<P>That's what I did.

granpabri,<P>Explain to me what you nailed down...specify your criteria...<P>Thanks, elo

I am the NCP of 4 and the CP of two. Luckily, my first set of kids are almost all adults now, so i don't have to deal with this stuff with them. I was the WS in that relationship. So I was the one being unreasonable.<P>Now I am not going to say that I have everything nailed down. Quite the contrary. She keeps thinking up new stuff, so there are more stipulations to come.<P>We have a long distance (150 miles) to exercise visitation, so all of this does not work quite the way it originally did, but here goes.<P>First, I suggested (demanded, fought for, ?) specified times for her to see the kids. For the first couple of months she did not see them much, but it is better now. I think with the long distance commute, it is more difficult for her to blow off visitation. If we are in the same town, it is easy to say I will see them later.<P>Second, I sought the right of first refusal. This means that any time either of us has to work, we have to ask the other to have time with the kids before anyone else. Mine is pretty easy, since I work a 9-5 M-F job. She works nights and weekends. She has never taken advantage of this clause. I have on numerous occasions. Of course, she never calls and tells me, so this is another thing to take to court.<P>We split the driving right down the middle. Only fair, but this is not about fair to her. Car insurance. If I didn't require it, she wouldn't have it.<P>Now all this was done while I thought she had the possibility of being reasonable. Now that I know she has no intention of even trying, these are other things that need to be nailed down.<P>Clothes: All clothes that go with the kids need to come back. Several weeks I have had to run out and buy another pair of shoes for one kid or the other because she has failed to return the shoes that were on their feet when they left.<P>Corporal punishment: The latest. Seems that her BF is spanking my two year old for touching his beer. (real winner, huh?) So no one, at any time can hit, spank, or otherwise touch the children as punishment.<P>Child Support: She quit her well paying job for a minimum wage job and now says that I have to pay her support because she doesn't make any money. So I have to go to court to have her income imputed at her previous level. And, she didn't pay for over 9 months. So I have to go to court to hold her in contempt. And she says she pays insurance for them (she doesn't) and $75 a week for daycare. She only makes 250-300 a week, pays me half in CS, and the rest for childcare? Something rotten in Denmark.<P>Income tax deduction: She took the kids off on her taxes, although she did not meet any of the qualifications to do so. Another thing to go to court over.<P>So that's enough for now. Suffice to say think of the worst things that your spouse could do and try to protect your children from it. It will probably take me another year to figure out the worst she can do. So more court for me.<P>Unfortunately, I can not put in things like no overnights while the BF is there. California will not allow stuff like that.<P>Hey, good luck. We all need it.

Grandpabri,<P>Thanks for replying. My head is swimming since I read all what you have done, are doing, and will have to go back to court for. <P>Since my children and me too, have been blips on his radar screen for the last 18 months (14 in affair), I do not forsee that he will make any major adjustments to begin to try to let them know he is still alive and wants now to try to act like their father again. He is a stranger to all of us now. It will never be the same, even if by some miracle, he has a change of heart and wants to try to reconcile. Because his affiar took priority, he did not make the attempt to establish any regular, and routine visitation to foster continuity in the father/child relationships. He sees our son occaisionally and the meetings are brief, someone where at a Burker king or on the corner. They do not spend any quality time together.<BR>At this point, they are really like ships passing in the nights. He is like a phantom ghosts and "Elvis sightings" are common yet he doesn't come by to see us-but he comes in to our town from the town where he co-habits with his alcoholic counterpart--Bonnie and Clyde.<P>Crazy, bizarre, ludicrous, absurb, irrational, and he says it is reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <BR>And, I, according to him, am living in fantasy...<P>WEll, thanks. We will see... One thing I know for sure...I have been here everyday for my 3 children and our bonds have grown closer and tighter by the day...in the end, if he never wants to be together as a family with us again, he is the biggest loser.<P>Yes, our children lose too...but it is my husband who made the decision to desert us and divorce me. He knows I don't want this and I am firmly convinced that the ow is a major driving force and pusher behind this...alcohol also involved as they both have dwi backgrounds. she has two convictions. He has two arrests but no convictions.<P>This will be very significant in any visitation set-up. <P>Also, I am asking for sole/legal and physical custody which what he gave me when he left and became uninvolved--now it must be court approved.<P>thanks for input. elo

I don't know that you will be able to get sole legal. That is pretty difficult to get. Sole physical might be a bit easier, although it varies state to state. Don't do that much in California anymore.

granpabri,<P>Thanks for replying.<P>My attorney who has practiced in this parish in south Louisiana for years and knows the judges well enough, says he has had cases where the judge has granted sole legal and sole physical to one parent in cases similar to mine--esp.when one parent has shown no interest in communicating with the other parent (me) and has committed many offenses where he has compromised the best interests of our children.<BR>In other words, he has put his other life first and has made this evident by his non-involvement, no-interest, and <BR>his lack of concern about their academic, medical, religious, and their general welfare.<P>Even if I didn't receive sole legal, I couldn't imagine, from what I have seen and experienced in the last 14 months, that our 3 children will be at the top of his list all of a sudden. He literally won't have time to check on them, let alone, make time to re-connect in order to begin to try to foster any continuity in a father/child relationship. He has not seen our 11 year old daughter except for about 6 hours in 14 months. OUr 14 year old daughter is so hurt and devastated that she refuses to acknowledge his existence. How do you make up a deficit like that? Especially, when the parent has invested so much time and energy into their affair. And, then, there is our 16 year old son, Joel, who is so confused when he sees the disrespect that my H has dealt me by blatantly flaunting the other woman around our town.<P>Alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, etc, etc, etc, and that is the major factor in how this affair started and continues to this moment.<P>I am still on a roller coaster--I hate him and, I want my marriage, family and husband back. The emotional upheaval inside of me is horrendous. <P>I didn't ask for any of this. I have had a pile of manure dumped on me and I am trying to dig myself out of it and still smell clean. <P>His greed for money is also a major factor. He has forged my name to a fed and state income tax refund check; he has willingly benefitted when the other woman filed a bodily lawsuit against our auto ins. policy when the affair started and she was in his truck with him and they were both drunk and in an accident. She got $25, 000 and they were off together. When he was laid off his job, he amended our 96 and 97 returns, signed my name to them, and the forged my name to the checks. He used the checks and didn't offer to help pay our mortgage notes--but used the money to pay for an apartment for him and the ow. <P>He defied a court ordered child support judgment for 6 months. He only gave his employer after they threatened to take away his driver's license. For the 6 months, he didn't tell them where he was working, he got his full check and didn't provide money for me pay the housenotes.<P>Yes, I will use all of this to try to convince a judge that he is not a responsible person; he has not shown in interest in the decision making process for his children because he doesn't care. His actions are documented.<P>This is the way it turned out because this is the way he went about his business--focusing on taking care of his own agenda--not his family.<P>I have a tape from the answering phone; he talked about "YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THROWN OUT OF YOUR HOUSE".<BR>This is a person who refused to pay and who drinks and who has alienated himself--we are no longer his family-we are "you people"--and he doesn't see this as his house--but our house of which he wants no part of. <P>Sorry, I got carried away. Needless to say, I am very upset and I really try to tell myself-hey, he is not worth it. At this point, I would like to move and start over.<BR>My girls are willing to go but my son is not. <P>I am a teacher and I could find a job anywhere. <P>I never wanted to be a single parent; I do not want to stay in this town where we will traumatized by my husband's insensitive and cold-blooded attitude. He doesn't care how his actions have affected any of his family.<P>I'll close for now. <BR>Hope you situation is better. elo