To give a little background so someone might be able to give me the best advice, here goes:<BR>I've been divorced for 3 years and during this time, my ex has paid support for both children listed in our divorce as "children of the marriage". Recently, his child support was increased by the court and he was ordered to pay arrears (which he had fallen into within the last 5 months). He was further ordered to pay 1/2 of medical bills (which was stated in our divorce that each would pay 1/2 and he never paid anything in those 3 years)... Anyway... In those 3 years, he never once mentioned that 1 of the children was not his biological child. Although he knew before he and I even got married that 1 of the children was not his. He did give the child his last name and has paid support for this child for the past 3 years and even claimed the child on tax returns. Because his child support was increased, he now wants out of paying support for the child, although he still wants visitation with the child. I never once tried to deceive him into believing the child was his. I know a new law went into effect releasing fathers from having to pay child support if they could prove that a child is not theirs, however, there seems to be a clause that states if a father KNEW the child was not his PRIOR to marrying the mother or prior to the court first granting an order of support, then they are not entitled to the relief. Can anyone confirm this? <BR>I know that this is a unique situation and some of you may disapprove, however, the way I see it, this child is not at fault for any of this. My ex-husband had 3 years to make mention of this to the court, and in 3 prior court appearances, he never brought it up. In my opinion, because of this, he shouldn't be able to just "change his mind" when it's convenient. He did tell me, however, that if I agreed to lower the child support and waive all of the arrears and past medical bills, he'd drop the whole thing. TO me, this is saying my child, whom he has referred to as his "son" for 7 years... has a price tag. <BR>Thanks to all that have read this. I realize by posting this, I subject myself to the ridicule from those that disapprove, but I am hoping for some sound responses as well. The situation is what it is. I can't go back and change it, I can only do what is right and in the best interest of the children. There is another child involved, and is my ex's biological child. The emotional trauma this could cause both children is emmence and as a parent, I hope that the law will protect them.<BR>Thank you.

I'm not sure why you think that any of us would ridicule you.....<P>Anyway, I think you need to consult with an attorney. Your situation and the laws are so complex that I doubt any of us could give you any real advice.<P>Good luck!<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

I guess I expected some ridicule because I was pregnant when I met my ex. You know, the whole, "out of wedlock" thing. Not to mention, the obvious that the child is not his.<BR>I guess my biggest hope is that maybe, my point of view can be understood and maybe even someone will say, "hey, it's not right for his to take the responsibility and then change his mind". I don't know what will happen, but I am intent on fighting this because I believe that he had ample time with which to act and I never did deceive him into believing the child was his. I'll post the Ohio bill that became law, maybe some of you could read it and give me your interpretation. Pertinent information relating to my situation is within item (4) but refers backwards a little. I appreciate the help.<BR>I have consultated an attorney (spoken with several actually), they all say they will take the case with a $500 retainer. I don't have $500 though. (Not many of us single parents do). I figure if I can do enough research and get enough on my own, maybe the cost will come down. Here is the pertinent text from the bill.<P><BR> (4) A PARTY MAY NOT OBTAIN RELIEF UNDER DIVISION (C) OF 140 <P>THIS SECTION IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING IS THE CASE: 141 <P> (a) THE PARTY OR MALE MINOR ADOPTED THE CHILD; 143 <P> (b) THE CHILD WAS CONCEIVED AS A RESULT OF ARTIFICIAL 145 <P>INSEMINATION IN COMPLIANCE WITH SECTIONS 3111.30 TO 3111.38 OF 146 <P> 4 <P><BR> <BR>THE REVISED CODE; <P> (c) THE PARTY OR MALE MINOR KNEW THE CHILD WAS NOT HIS 148 <P>CHILD BEFORE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING: <P>(a) WAS MARRIED TO THE MOTHER OF THE CHILD; 97 <P> (b) ACKNOWLEDGED HIS PATERNITY OF THE CHILD IN A WRITING 100 <P>SWORN TO BEFORE A NOTARY PUBLIC; <P> (c) WAS NAMED WITH HIS CONSENT AS THE CHILD'S FATHER ON 102 <P>THE CHILD'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE; 103 <P> (d) WAS REQUIRED TO SUPPORT THE CHILD BY A WRITTEN 105 <P>VOLUNTARY PROMISE OR A COURT ORDER; 106 <P> (e) SIGNED WITH HIS CONSENT THE CHILD'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE 109 <P>AS AN INFORMANT AS PROVIDED IN SECTION 3705.09 OF THE REVISED 110 <P>CODE AS THAT SECTION EXISTED PRIOR TO JANUARY 1, 1998; 111 <P> (f) WAS NAMED IN AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF PATERNITY THAT A 114 <P>COURT ENTERED UPON ITS JOURNAL PURSUANT TO FORMER SECTION 2105.18 115 <P>OF THE REVISED CODE; 116 <P> (g) WAS NAMED IN AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF PATERNITY THAT HAS 118 <P>BECOME FINAL UNDER SECTION 2151.232, 3111.211, OR 5101.314 OF THE 119 <P>REVISED CODE; <P> (h) WAS PRESUMED TO BE THE NATURAL FATHER OF THE CHILD 122 <P>UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE LISTED IN SECTION 3111.03 OF THE REVISED 123 <P>CODE; <P> (i) WAS DETERMINED TO BE THE FATHER OF THE CHILD IN A 126 <P>PARENTAGE ACTION UNDER CHAPTER 3111. OF THE REVISED CODE; 128 <P> (j) OTHERWISE ADMITTED, ACKNOWLEDGED, OR WAS DETERMINED TO 131 <P>BE THE CHILD'S FATHER. <P> 149 <P> (i) TAKING ANY ACTION THAT RESULTED IN AN EVENT DESCRIBED 151 <P>IN DIVISION (B)(2)(a) TO (g) OF THIS SECTION; 153 <P> (ii) BEING PRESUMED TO BE THE NATURAL FATHER OF THE CHILD 155 <P>UNDER ANY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES LISTED IN DIVISION (A)(1) TO (4) 156 <P>OF SECTION 3111.03 OF THE REVISED CODE; 157 <P> (iii) OTHERWISE ADMITTING OR ACKNOWLEDGING HIMSELF TO BE 159 <P>THE CHILD'S FATHER. 160 <P><BR>I hope that this came through ok. If not, I will paste the link to the bill in here. From my interpretation, the law is designed to protect those that are lied to and led to believe a child is theirs, however, it does NOT relieve a parent from responsiblity if they KNEW the child was not theirs. For knowledge, my ex did KNOW before he and I got married and before the court first ordered him to pay child support 3 years ago.<P>Thanks for everything.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText123/123_HB_242_2_Y.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/BillText123/123_HB_242_2_Y.htm</A> <BR>

From personal experience I've learned it's not so much what the law says, but how it's generally applied in the courts in your county. And while to me it looks as though the law speaks in your favor, you really need to talk to a lawyer. Are there any legal aid offices in your area? You might look for a female lawyer who would work with you on a payment schedule. Good luck.

Springchkn,<P>Love your screen name. Really creative.<P>It is doubtful that anyone here, including a lawyer that posts regularly here, will try to give you legal advice in this forum. There are just too many blanks in the information, and don't forget, you are speaking from your point of view. There is no way you can fairly present what you ex's position is going to be after he gets legal advice himself.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B>I have consultated an attorney (spoken with several actually), they all say they will take the case with a $500 retainer. I don't have $500 though. (Not many of us single parents do). I figure if I can do enough research and get enough on my own, maybe the cost will come down. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would encourage you to read all you can, and to learn all you can, so that you understand what is going on. But don't expect your new found knowledge to reduce the cost of legal services. Even lawyers get other lawyers to represent them. The have a saying that "He who acts as his own attorney has a fool for a client." You are desparately in need of competant legal counsel. Somewhere in Ohio, they have sources of help, Lawyer reference Bureau, United Way, Public Defender, Community Law Projects, even the Family Court can help you find legal help. If you really want to research, start by researching sources of legal help.<P>The fact is, the courts really don't like handling these cases and the judges really expect "grownups" to get together and work out what is best for the kids. In about eighty percent of divorce cases, child support is decided by mutual agreement.<P>BrambleRose made a powerful point that I hope you didn't miss, "I'm not sure why you think any of us would ridicule you...." What she is referring to is called negative projection. <P>It is sort of a self fulfilling prophesy. Your statement, "I realize by posting this, I subject myself to the ridicule from those that disapprove, but I am hoping for some sound responses as well", says more about you than it does about us. It invites a suggestion that this is coming from a headstrong person who does what she wants without due regard for the consequences of her own actions. Statements like that might have the effect of getting you the answers you WANT to hear, not necessarily the answers you NEED to hear. <P>On any given day, the law of the land is what the Supreme Court says it is. And very often the decisions are split by a 5 to 4 vote. For the sake of your child, I would really recommend that you give up the idea of trying to make that law sound like what you want to believe it means. You may be wasting your time. When the Judge makes his decision, he not only looks at the law, but he looks at precedent opinions handed down by other courts. The one thing he doesn't consider, is what you think the law means. If it goes to court, the matter will ultimatly be decided by what the Judge thinks the law means, interrupted in light of of precedent rulings, when applied to the circumstances you and your ex present. There aren't any shortcuts, find a lawyer!<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

Thank you for your input. I have contacted legal aid for help, I guess we'll see what the outcome of that is. I would have never deduced that I was coming across as "headstrong" or "without regard for my actions". If that is what was thought, then that it's way off. Do I care what is in the best interest of my ex, NO... But then again, I don't care what is in the best interest of myself either. The only thing that matters here is what is best for the children involved in this. I'm not a self-centered person, at all. I am simply a confused mom, who is at her ends wit to protect her child. I guess my hope is that maybe someone would know something that I do not because I am not an attorney and interpreting law is not something easily done, especially if you are not an attorney. <P>I do understand that representing myself would be foolish, however, sometimes you have no choice. I live in excess of 5 hours away from the court, therefore, I am not able to run from agency to agency for assistance in that county. Knowing who may be able to assist, is a step in knowing who I may be able to contact, so that information is greatly appreciated.<P>I do only want to know honest thoughts on the subject, I do not dare want anyone to tell me what I want to hear. I'd much rather know the truth than to expect one outcome and actually have something contrary happen. I do appreciate both the positive and the negative.

[QUOTE] [/B] I realize by posting this, I subject myself to the ridicule from those that disapprove, but I am hoping for some sound responses as well. [/B] [QUOTE]<P>OK, but where did you get this idea from? Just curious.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

springchkn32,<P>Just an opinion here. It seems that some sort of a threshold has been crossed here. I mean a financial threshold. You can bankrupt your exH. You can have him thrown in jail. You can legally do a lot of things.<P>However, if he is offering some sort of a resolution to this that he can live with and will of his free will agree to, then it seems to me some discussions on this matter are warrented. It may well be that the increased financial demands cannot be met without him losing out big time. The child support laws, often don't take into account that the spouse paying the support have to live and have a life as well.<P>So my recommendation is talk with him and figure out what is really going on. He may be able to get out of supporting the child that is not his, but if your reach a settlement, then you may end up with more money. Not as much as you are "entitled" to by law, but do recall that one of those children is not his, and while he may indeed love that child, I am sure the divorce, the increased payments, and your opinion of him don't make paying up very easy to tolerate.<P>I know I am suggesting something completely against the current approach in our country: sue, get as much as you can, make the so-in-son pay. But sometimes compromise is the better way to go. You will have many items come up in the years ahead, and he may be more willing to help then, if you address this now. Kids when they hit their teen years really start to go through money. <P>Something to think about.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Bumper, I expected some ridicule because some people (from church) have ridiculed me for having a child out of wedlock and for raising my son with a man that is not his father. I guess I almost expected some to jump on that same bandwagon. I guess that was me being presumptuous. <P>Just Learing, I did do what you suggested. I have tried talking to my ex and asked if there were any way that we could come to an agreement on things. He said NO, this is the way he wants it, period. His next sentence was asking me if he could have BOTH kids (including the child that is not his) for the summer. My response was simply, how can you expect me to just hand overr the child that you no longer want? His big thing is that he doesn't want to pay the arrears, which I have no control over. The state went after that because, by law, they have to. I just want this to stop. The only thing that is mattering to me right now is that this is a 7 year old little boy, and although he knows it is not his biological father (although he has no concept of what it actually means other than it's not the father that made him) it's still the only father he has grown up knowing. My ex and I have been to court several times recently, and I guess the biggest thing is that he got angry with me for filing to terminate the shared parenting plan and going after full custody. I was awarded this by the judge, but the reason I pursued it in the first place is the fact that my ex has only seen the kids for 4 hours in the past 18 months. In the 3 years since the divorce, he's only seen them 3 times. I have always wanted him to be involved. I can be a lot of things, but I can't replace their father. To him, the court proceedings seem to be all about "winning" and in his view, since I am "winning", he's mad. I told him that it wasn't about us anymore but about the kids and we need to work together for their benefit, but he doesn't want to do that. So I'm at a loss. I have always tried to be fair, but as I told him, I have to be fair to the kids first and foremost. I am just so stressed out over all of this and want an end so that I can move on.

Springchkn32,<P>Well, I guess I am confused. If you want him involved with the children, and he hasn't seen them very often but has been paying some if not all support, why did you file for sole custody? To Punish him for not paying all of it? It would sure seem to an outside observer, that this isn't all about the children, but you getting revenge by removing him from everything but paying for them.<P>Sorry, but that is exactly how is seems to me. Your exH is probably right, this is about winning and you are using all of the tools available to do so. The Good news is you will win. There is no doubt. You will get your money or he will be in jail. Or he may go to jail. You will win.<P>But I don't see anything that has to do with the best interest of the children. I am sure I don't know the whole picture. I surely don't know why you two divorced, why he doesn't see them, unless he lives far away. So much I don't know.<P>But I do know that you do seem to be using the courts to strip him of any reason to care about the children. Please remember one thing. When you don't see children, and you aren't even really the parent of one of the children you don't see, the emotional attachment does go away.<P>If you don't believe me just read the stories on this site about marriages going bad, mainly because the emotional attachment is broken.<P>I really don't have any advice to offer. You will win. You will get your money. You children will lose their father and you will have all that you wish.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

J L<P>I sough to pursue sole custody because whenever I tried to speak with him about making decisions regarding the children, he didn't want to participate. I have not attempted to cut him out of the kids lives, he still has visitation. But you can lead a horse to water, however, you cannot make him drink. He and I reside 5 hours apart. I have offered to meet him halfway when it comes to transportation issues, but still, he doesn't want to do this. As for why my ex hasn't been involved in the lives of the children, I cannot guess on that. You speak as if you think I sought to strip him of everything, but that is not the case. I merely wanted to be able to make the decisions with regard to the children without having to wait 2 months for him to return a phone call. How can shared parenting work effectively when one of the parents isn't willing to work together? The whole point of shared parenting is to work together!! I can't do it alone. I am sorry you think of me as you do, but I do know that I have put aside things that I want for the best interest of my kids. <BR>Thank you for your input anyway.

JL,<P>On a different note, it took me 3 years to go to court over the custody issue, had it really been about winning, I would have done it years before. I am not bitter about my ex, in actuality, I have bent over backwards to help him. I even agreed to a lower amount of support than the worksheet said I was entitled to, even agreed to a lower amount of support if he gets laid off, and even still, agreed to reimburse him for child care expenses when he has the kids. I AGREED to all of this. But just how far am I supposed to go to protect him and his needs? I have an obligation to protect the needs of the children first. I did not once trick him or tell him he had to make the choices he has made, he is responsible for those choices, not me. I hope this clears up a few things.

Springchkn,<P>A little background really does help, and as this thread develops things are becoming clearer one at a time. I don't think anyone really wants to argue with you, and we sure don't want to pass judgement on your life history. Most of us are here because what we tried didn't work for us either. We mostly just share our experience, strengh and hope with each other. We are all trying to our best for our kids despite past mistakes. We are all trying to make the best of a less than perfect situation.<P>If this keeps going for a while, (and I hope the thread continues) what you will see is a number of different ideas emerge. These ideas aren't particularly right or wrong for your situation, but they are ideas. Every so often, someone comes up with something that does the trick for me, and even better, someone will come up with something that stimulates me to find an answer on my own that will work. It gets me headed in the right direction.<P>I've been hanging out here for eight or nine months. Believe me, they are a pretty friendly bunch. Opinions abound, but above all, they are friendly, and they are supportive and they are caring. It is nice that you are unique, but around here, that is just like everyone else!<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper<P>

Bumper,<P>Thank you so much for your post. You're right, the ideas do help. I need those. When it seems you have tried everything and nothing has worked, sometimes the thoughts from others can steer you in a direction that may be helpful. This has been a difficult time and I just hope for a peaceful end to it. <P>The past is the past and it cannot be changed, however, the future can still be structured, if nothing else. I do appreciate every idea that is given, even if it's not what I want to hear. If I go through life always hearing what I want... boy am I in for a great big let down! So, the harsh reality is really what I need.<P>I am not sure of what will happen, nor do I even want to guess. I hope that we can reach an agreement, but I guess I'm just not going to hold my breath on that.<P>Thanks for it all.<P>S.