Hi, <P>In Homer McDonald's book, How to stop the Divorce, he states that if one would totally agree with their spouse about the divorce, it could possibly bring about a suction that might make them re-think that they want a divorce.<P>Any one here familiar with this book.. <P>Anyone have an opinion on this philosophy.<P>Anyone here use any degree or type of this approach.<P>I know nothing is going to change my alcoholic husband's mind. <P>So will a divorce from me, his stable wife, so he can become the fourth H of this alcoholic he is with, really make him happy...be true to himself...is the grass any greeener, I ask? He seems to think so. <P>Only time will tell...as with everything....<P>elo<BR>

It is certainly interesting, and I'll bet NOONE has ever tried it! I suppose its worth a try...maybe I should've done it. Let us know if it works...maybe I can do something retroactively!<BR>I think, that by not standing in their way, when it blows up, they can't really trace it back to you anymore. I do know that everything wrong in my ex-wife's life was/is my fault...she has been very clear about that. Everything right has occurred since she quit loving me...we aren't sure when that was...right now, probably thinks she never did....<BR>I think the common working factors in any successful plan is patience in the face of apparent failure. Time is our ally, and their enemy. There is no doubt of that. Also, since they are getting what they want, they don't analyse things so much, and that is also to our benefit since we pick everything apart. We just have to be better 'forensic spouses' (ex-spouses, in my case.) Objectivity would be nice, but now I'm just dreaming!<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited June 12, 2001).]

Hi,<BR>Since the a. started 1/00 and Dwi accident they were in and money she got for bodily injury, and money he got when he forged my name to income tax refund checks, he has been caught up in a worldwind of sex, money, alcohol, and being true to himself.<P>I spent most of this time hoping and praying taht he would come back...I decided not to file or file on adultery...<BR>I wanted the d. to be blood on his hands...and so, this Friday, he will have bloody hands.......................I told him over and over that I did not want this divorce.<BR>He has destroyed his family and his marriage and his wife.<BR>But he has been true to his own agenda.<P>Ow has dwi convictions...2.....she leeched on and hasn't let go yet.....<P>My H started and stopped d. two times and now here we go...the third time is Friday.. Into court I come his wife ...out of court I am no longer his wife....<P><BR>About a month ago, I downloaded the book I mentioned off the internet and I read it. The philosophy focuses on <BR>Total agreement with what ws wants...the more you clash and disagree, the more they retreat...<P>WEll, I didn't expect any change now or in the future. I do expect the d. to go through.<P>Two points in this book that hit me hard were:<BR>1. Totally agree with everything they say and do.<BR>2. Don't fight a legal paper divorce; Minimize the emotional divorce. <P>So, since I had been very vocal in stating my position on not wanting a divorce, I figured I didn't have anything to lose in changing my position. I had already lost my husband, my marriage, my family, soon, our house and then<BR>bankruptcy...Where else is there to go...but to a place you haven't been...so you lie and put on an act and pretend that you think the divorce is best for us and I am happy wiht my freedom and space. No negatives at all.<P>Just smiles and lies and acting as though this divorce is the greated idea ws ever had. <P>Doesn't guarantee it will stop the divorce. I agree with your statement that, by not standing in their way, when (not if) it blows up, they can't trace it back to bs anymore. By the way, honey, it was your decision--not mine, can I remind you?!<P>This ow is 3xmarr/div. If H is stupid to marry her, he will be become the "statistical" FOURTH husband of this ow.<BR>What a wonderful feat!! What an accomplishment? <P>Of course, the affair books state taht most affairs die a natural death at about 2 years. It is now 1 1/2 years and three days and counting to the divorce he wants and she pushed him to get. Over and over I heard about teh pressure she put on him for this.<P>Well, my attorney, after I told him about her criminal background (2 dwi convictions in TX), wants to subpoena her. At first I objected, because this gives her a personal invitation and a spectator's view of my H being granted the d. she pushed for. However, utltimately, she <BR>will be questioned about her connection with him, her addresse, and her criminal background. This is important because I don't want my children aroung her AT ALL AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES. This will be a big, bitter pill for me to swallow to know she will be there. I hope our strategy is to my benefit. However, I am trying not to get my hopes too high.. sometimes, the lowlifes win the battle...but then, not the war.<P>If they marry,it will not work...yes, when her annoyances outweigh what she provides, then,his head will begin to defrost and the fog will begin to lift. Where will I be?<P><BR>Like you said, time is our ally...common working factor is patience...in what has become a hopeless situation...<P>Your comment: since they are getting what they want, <BR>they don't analyze and we do--to our benefit.<P>Wise comment from someone on this forum:<BR> Bs is at their all time HIGH for self-reflection and,at the same time, ws is at an all time LOW for self <BR>reflection...What about that wisdom?<P>So your ex-wife blames you for everything? Well, that seems to be a VERY COMMON THREAD, TRAIT, AND BEHAVIOR PATTERN FOR WSPOUSES. THEY ARE SO PERFECT AND WE ARE SO <BR>FAULT RIDDEN!! Right, yea sure...<P>WEll, he divorces me and I will be the single parent...he will be the distant dad (which he did a good job at in showing no genuine, concerted effort to see our children) instead of a "daily dad". My children are so sad and<BR>devastated.<P>Wish I could be objective...<P>Nice talking to you...elo<P><BR>

Well, now...wasn't that the pleasant bonding experience? They won't be telling that to any imagined grandchildren, will they? Interesting how they end up in these 'predicaments', and yet...they can justify their actions to anyone foolish enough to listen to them. My ex-wife got her mindset listening to her adulterous father (a former deacon, no less) and a Zoloft addicted career unhappy wife (no chance of her divorcing, though, only all of her friends...the sister of the OM, also...there's a deal, too!)<BR>I spent tonight with my SIL (she refuses to acknowledge a divorce between me and the rest of the family!), who is pi$$ed, too. I count four people that listen to my ex-wife...Zoloft queen, her brother (OM), ex-wife's dad (adulterer...still married to MOM, living with OW)...oh, $#!t...that's only three...oh well, I tried there, too. Hey, look, I'd take your burden, too...since I've already got mine, and honestly, TOO MUCH more would not be enough...this is BAD, there is no doubt of that, but you will do fine, I am certain of it...just remember that you are important, too. Don't take one shred of self importance from HIS actions...DO NOT GO THERE!<BR>I am sad. I am lonely. Sometimes, I feel unimportant. Sometimes I feel unappreciated. Sometimes, I feel unloved. THEN I GET OVER IT, AND MOVE ON. There is never a parade, I've not gotten one attaboy, award, or red cent from any of it; in fact, it costs me in every way imaginable. I'm afraid that that is all there is to it. It's all about making a family environment around me, and whoever wants to be part of it, will be. Everyone else can ki$$ my a$$, to be truthful! I've not got enough ANYTHING for that. I tried it, and it made things worse. All I can do is all I can do, and even that's TOO MUCH, sometimes.<BR>I wish I could tell you something that makes it easier, but then that would be a lie. As bad as it seems, well, that's at least how bad it is. You have spent your whole life getting to where you are now...that is quite an accomplishment, even if you don't like where you are now.<BR>About the OW in court...I think it is a major violation of the principle we are talking about, as well. Never mind the lawyer for the moment...he wants to WIN for you, but winning in his mind is not the same as it is in yours. Do you want your husband back? If you do, the lawyer is not on your side right now. You should give him a no-fault divorce, and NOT try to 'stick it to him'. You will absolutely burn the bridge if you do. I'd leave him wondering how he 'got away so easy'...that will weigh like a 16 ton weight when the A dies...which is SOON...be ready. The way that no-fault would sit in him would really make him think...why did she let me go so easily? As he doubts himself, the OW doubts him, too...good medicine all around. Hard on you, but think about it for a while...My ex-wife gets more guilty every day...it's starting to eat her up, and she can no longer blame me. HER FAMILY is supporting me, too...she's seeing that now. I've done no wrong in this...I intend to keep it that way, but I WANT HER BACK SOMEDAY...that's why. Otherwise, I'd rake her over the coals, too. Please, I have been injured to the core over this...I still am. Her OM WAS A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE until....All that you feel, I feel these things, too. BUT remember your love before you act on your anger. God Bless you...keep the faith...I will on my end.

Thnks for writing. <P>I searched my soul about whether to let attorney subpoena the woman.<P>I just feel that if My H ever wants to come back and reconcile, he will see that I was trying to protect my children--not stick it to him. I just can't stomach the fact the my children could be in the company of this woman with her background--maybe in a vehicle too--her dwi's.<P><BR>I appreciate your opinion. Right now, I am so bewildered.<P>I don't think I am burning any bridges. Why should I agree to a no-fault divorce? <P>elo<BR>

Your reply gave me food for thought. Just read your thoughts on OW. <P>I do love him and I want him back. I also want him to be held accoutable for all that he has done. Are you saying that a No Fault divorce would perhaps give him, at some point, heavy guilt. <P>Do you really believe that the A will end sooner than I think?<P>Should I just go No fault, not fight the joint custody, and liberal visitation and my children might have to be compromised into staying wiht aduterers who drink and drive.<P>Do you see what a difficult position I am in? <P>Yes, the attorney's position is to win...I want him to win sole legal and physical custody for me, at least for 6months to a year so my husband can Hopefully see how improtant his children, at least, are to him. Also, to get to re-evaluate his lifestyle...drinking, drinking and driving, adultery. OW is 3xmar/div. He could be STUPID enough to become her 4th..<P>The OW's criminal background, two dwi convictions, are very significant. In fact, I recently found out that she was driving my H around when he was drinking and they picked up my son at another location.<P>Do you see why I need to bring her background/influence into the picture? A truly sincere, genuine and concerted attempt to reconcile will come ONLY if my H makes major changes in his life. He will have to crash and burn and hit a brick wall in order to see what and where he is.<P>Who know who is right here? Will presenting the facts to H in a courtroom make him even more protective of her? Or will this bring about clashes between them. I don't know how much he knows or she has told him.<P>Am I acting on my anger? Yes, I am upset to say the least.<BR>I don't like, in any way, what has and is happening. <P>I keep thinking about my children, and what they will be exposed to if I don't take a stand. If he holds this aganist me that I stepped in to show the position he would be placing our children, then, he is will continue to place HIMSELF OVER THE WELFARE OF HIS CHILREN. <P>When he left, he told he had to be true to himself. If I go no fault, our children will lose. They are losing already, yes. <P>Just because the OW's background will be exposed, doesn't make this a divorce on the grounds of adultery. REmember be filed... not me. elo

Good morning. What you say is true. I have some similar concerns, but my ex-wife doesn't make a habit of the drinking and driving the kids around, so I am not concerned there. It is her somewhat aloof attitude towards them as individuals that I don't like. They don't like to OM, and their seeing each other while I was still married doesn't endear my kids to either one of them.<P>My ex-FIL is involved with an OW that is twice D'ed, once recently...both of them were married for a couple of years before 'going public'. My ex-MIL is fighting the D, and subpoenaed the OW for financial records...seems ex-FIL is trying to 'launder' money through her, pretending to spend it on necessities, etc. That plan ultimately backfired on her, as she got more money, but the D is not final, and ex-FIL had some choice words to say. They have no children under 23, so no concern there. If you can get full custody without her, I'd recommend that. A no-fault divorece could give you full custody. Why not have your lawyer (or you, its not difficult to do) prepare the no-fault with terms favorable to you, and present it as a counter to his proposal? At least then, you can say that you gave him the opportunity to do it that way. When you subpoena her, you are invading his 'safe place', and he will not take that well in any case. I'm a little ahead of myself in saying that it would burn the bridge. I suppose that you could pull it off without burning the bridge, but I wouldn't do it. Do you think he expects it? What grounds is he filing under? I think that life, society, his children, and not the least of which, God will hold him accountable, you don't need to lift a finger. I am trying to take the high road, and I do not talk ill of her when I can avoid it, certainly not in front of people that might 'send it' to her. When you don't respond the way they expect, it confuses them. When they act on their desires, and hurt everyone around them, they 'have peace'. When you try to stop them, or hold them accountable, they run faster. One of my sons has a dog. She gets out, and runs. If you chase her, she runs into the street, and further away. If you leave her be, she comes back. I'm not saying my ex-wife is that dog, or your husband is, either, but you gotta admit, its a damned good analogy! (DOGS!)<P>I can't give you the ultimate answer here, if I could I'd still be married, and not in this section of MB. I do know what has and hasn't worked for me. The thing that I like about what I am doing is that I have no choice, except to act, or react. I am acting only. She came here today to return some things, and generally try to be all 'moved beyond'. It didn't work too well, and there is one more baby step back, the way I see it. She is trying to rearrange the visitation, and I have had the kids all week as a result, she will not have them until next Monday, and they will come straight back here then because she works on Mondays. I have the power in the relationship now, and I run it the way I see fit. (Actually, I just guess...but she doesn't know that. I mean honestly...what relationship?)<P>He is railing, and anything you do to get in the way will drive him...how? I don't know, but try the no-fault with you getting full custody. If he is the way you say, it might be a relief to him...you know that responsibility thing just gets in the way of drinking and whoring. Look at OW...she knows this! I think the trial will bring them closer, and good for them! (Better for you.) At some point, a small thing will grow in the pit of his stomach. A nagging feeling that something is not right. That will grow into the realization that it is his stinking life, and all of the pain and misery he has caused. Then, after he wallows in HIS SELF PITY for a while, and if he EVER was a real man, he will come begging for forgiveness, and want to reconcile. This is what you want to happen, isn't it? I think it is doable...in fact, I think it will happen of its own accord in time, but how patient are you? I try to make sure that everything I say, or do leaves that door open. I try to keep her from slamming it too hard, as well. She is trying, but I am not going to listen to her right now. That's for her benefit, and mine, regardless.<BR>When is the trial?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elo:<BR><B>Two points in this book that hit me hard were:<BR>1. Totally agree with everything they say and do.<BR>2. Don't fight a legal paper divorce; Minimize the emotional divorce.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I pretty much agree with the second point. I do not agree with the first point.<P>My wife filed for divorce, and I contested it because my wife filed on false grounds and I can not in honesty plead guilty to crimes I did not commit. (Although my wife did not file criminal charges, she nonetheless accused me of criminal behavior.) However, I was told that there was really no practical difference between a contested and an uncontested divorce, and my lawyer has repeatedly attempted to get settlement negotiations going (without success). I have fought only where I deemed it necessary to protect myself, and I have otherwise cooperated fully with the process, trying to make as little difficulty for my wife as possible.<P>I am not going to try to hold my wife against her will. I am not going to try to "suck" her back into our marriage. Our marriage will never be restored until and unless my wife turns from her flight and faces herself and the truth. If and when she does that, I want her to be able to look back at how I handled myself during this time and see that:<P>(a) I maintained my integrity. I can't do that if I violate my principles and agree with everything she says and does, no matter how destructive I believe her words and actions to be.<P>(b) I treated her with dignity. This means that I bend over backward to give her the benefit of the doubt when I catch her in a lie, that I avoid personal attacks and innuendo, and that my only weapon is a calm presentation of the truth. <P>If our marriage is going to be rebuilt, it will need to be built on respect. I am being very careful to act in a manner that will earn my wife's respect, even if she never gives it to me. Besides, whether or not my wife ever turns from her path, <I>I</I> will still have to live with <I>myself</I>. I will not compromise my integrity and sacrifice my self-respect on the off chance that doing so might manipulate my wife into deviating from her chosen course.<P>In the darkest times, it has sometimes been only the knowledge of my integrity that has kept me going. I will not give that up.<BR>

Creates a suction? Maybe not until their affair is over.<P>Not fighting with them increases their guilt, absolutely.<P>My XW (liar and cheater) can hardly live with herself because of guilt.<P>Agree totally with them, HELL NO. That's what they want you to do to alleviate their guilt. Don't play their game. If you agree to the divorce, they will blame you. This does not mean to fight the divorce, but don't pursue it. Don't be mean and retaliate, but don't agree with them. Just say that if this is what they want to do, it's up to them and protect yourself. Saying anything else would be lying, and I am not a liar.<P>They want you to say...<BR>(Engage sarcasm mode)<BR>I'm so happy you found your soulmate. We can still be friends. You can take our children as I know you're the better parent. I want this divorce so that you can get on with your life. In fact, I will get a lawyer, file for a divorce and give you everything so they you can be happy with your soulmate and know it was my decision. You're right, I'm a terrible spouse and the other man is a much better person than me. You're also right that our entire 10 year marriage was a joke and we just aren't meant to be together. It's okay though, I'm not hurt at all about anything.<BR>(Disengage sarcasm mode)<P>Vomit Vomit Vomit<P>Pure Fantasyland<P>I have primary custody of our daughter. My X and I went through a fairly easy divorce. XW was too busy with OM and I stayed focused on my daughter and got what I wanted. X wanted the divorce so that she could move on. At that point, everything was seperated. What difference does a piece of paper make? I do EVERYTHING possible to be reasonable with my XW. She continues off the deep end. In a time when she should be totally happy (recently divorced), she is totally miserable. She really misses our daughter and calls almost every day to "check on her" when my daughter is with me, but does she change her work hours to be with our daughter, NO. "Check on her". Erks me. She has portrayed me as a mean person, even telling our daughter that. I have the answering machine recording to prove it. Does she limit her time with the OM to spend time with our daughter, apparently not. She is just a royal pain in the a**. Every time I try normal relations for my daughter's benefit, my XW looks to place blame on me and get me to fight. She called again tonight. My daughter was in the bathtub the first time. On the second call, my daughter was out of the bath but didn't want to talk to her mom. Of course her mom started something. "You're just trying to keep her from me." "She is almost old enough to decide who she wants to live with and I know she will pick me". (daughter is almost 5) I hung up at this point. I usually avoid conflict with her at ALL costs. I simply hang up or walk off. She didn't call back. I hold all the cards at this point. She no longer has lies and deception and the threat of getting our daughter on her side. (states tend to give children to the mother) I'm not getting anything good out of this relationship now and I'm damn sure not taking the bad.<P>Still, I am so tired of fighting with XW. This does not mean I am going to give in. That would be bad for our daughter. I just hope the day comes soon when she sees the OM for what he is, their relationship with him for what it is, and me for who I am.<P>I really work at keeping a balance between the time our daughter is with me and the time our daughter is with her mother. I ALWAYS work with XW on visitation. The OM has no criminal record. I could probably never limit my daughter's contact with him. If I could, I'm not sure I'd want to as it would mean limiting my daughter's time with her mother. My XW is a fine mother except for not being able to discipline our daughter. Unfortunately, she not too bright. Not dumb, just slow. She has really to work to learn anything. I guess it will take immense pain for her to learn this lesson.<P>So tired of it all... I've been kinda down lately; financial situation and onset of summer blues I think. Oh well, I guess I'll keep plugging along until some fine babe walks into my life.<P>Kevin<P>

Hi elo,<P>I sure am sorry for all you are going through. I have followed your postings, and I want to tell you that it CAN and it WILL get better. I know you feel devastated right now with the divorce coming up and you not wanting your children to be in dangerous circumstances, and it sounds like they would be if they were around this woman, who has DWI convictions.<P>When I went through my divorce, my ex made some very embarrassing allegations against me. My attorneys had the witnesses sequestered and each one was only allowed in the courtroom when they were to give testimony. If your attorney does supoena her, perhaps this way she could only come in to be questioned under oath about her character and background. My attorneys were also able to have the courtroom closed during my hearing. You might ask your attorney about doing this where you live. <P>I pray that you will get peace of mind on this, and your children will be where God wants them to be, as well as you, elo.<P>Take care.

Father of 1, etc and ashygirl,<P>Thanks for replies. I was in court with my soon not to be my h anymore by his own choice. It was 6 long hours.<P>I hated it. I tried to be cool. Only time will tell.<P>I will tell you more about it tomorrow. <P>I am tired and mentally exhausted. <P>elo.