I am finally trying to be free from my lying cheating, emotionally abusive H. I tried everthing I could. Patience, counseling, I feel like my self esteem is gone never to return.I was isolated early on, he didn't like my frinds so they stopped coming around. He wanted me to stay home with he kids so I did. He is an alcoholic who I feel feels nothing. How can people so blatantly hurt others. How does a person look you in the eye and say"I love you and I want to change or us" while tenderly holding your face in their hands, then turn around and call their other woman? Don't get me wrong, I now know this was him, and not me.I believed him so many times and let him back in, is there anyone else here who feels like a complete idiot and has done the same thing? I feel alone in this. Like I am the only person ever fooled over and over and the only one stupid enough to believe he would change.Is there anyone here like me?

You're not alone and you have come to the right place.<P>Yes, my H did the same to me. "I love you and only you. I want only you. The thought of being with another woman makes me ill. " Meanwhile, he's out picking up any stray B***H in heat who will wrap herself around him. Pathetic loser. Made me feel like one too, for a long time. Believed him over and over again, let him back in over and over again. Ughhh! Why did I DO that??!!!<P>The best thing that I did for myself is accept responsibility for believing the jerk and then forgive myself for doing so. Still working on that part. <P>He's trying to convince me again that he's changed. Had it too good for too long. Wife at home, earning money, doing laundrey, throwing parties, buying him gifts... What did I get out of the deal? Broken promises, broken heart. And way more gray hairs than a fairy princess should ever have!<BR> <P>We believe and we try because we have faith that love will conquer. But, it can't conquer when the object of our affection feels like they are entitled to our love. We keep trying because everyone has the potential to change, but they have to want to. What can you as a good person do but offer the one you love the opportunity to prove that they really can be better?<P>It's good to take a good hard look at yourself when you're involved in a relationship like this. I didn't start feeling better until I really, really understood that the reason he did this is because I allowed it. Should have stuck to my guns in the begining, when things first went sour. It's about my responsibility. Not the BLAME, he's to blame for the way he treated me. But I'm responsible for allowing it to continue. Dumb? Yes. But not anymore.<P>Snow

Nope, you are NOT the only one, <B>alone now</B>.<P>I was married to an emotional abuser (and sometimes slightly physical too - hair pulling, pushing, that kind of thing) for 20 years. <P>It's that cycle we know only too well when we're on the other side of it. He's mean, then apologetic and/or nice and/or pathetic-suicidal... then I'm caring, babying him, loving him... and we're back to square one.<P>I stopped the cycle.<P>But he still can pull at my heartstrings, and it upsets me. I think I'll always care about this man... and yet, there are days I absolutely hate him.<P>Alcohol makes your situation a totally new ball o' wax, and there are several women here who have lived with that. I think that makes it a thousand times worse, because you don't know if it's the alcohol or them that's such an a$$. <P>I'm sure some others will be by, but just wanted you to know you are NOT alone.<BR>Have you been to therapy about this? Has he? <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino<p>[This message has been edited by Nyneve (edited June 14, 2001).]

Alone Now...<P>Not alone..in what your going through...been there..<BR>I'll have to post more later..need to get to work..<BR>go through and read some of my posts..

(((((Alone Now)))))<P>No dear you are not alone in this. Like Sheryl's spouse mine too was also emotionally (and slightly physical) abusive to me. She knew exactly what she was doing and she admitted that she got "pleasure" from this. In counselling she admitted this and then basically quit going cause she felt the counsellor was choosing sides.<P>Whatever you decide to do from here on out make sure that you take care of yourself and those children. I'm sure you've probably heard that a million times by now. No real advise on the self esteem, I can only say that mine is coming back slowly.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love, Bill<P>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-<BR>-Stand up and do the right thing, even if your standing alone.-

AN,<P>I can also relate to your post. My exH was never abusive to me in any way before the affair. However, I believe the actions of the affair are in and of themselves, emotionally abusive to the betrayed spouse.<P>My courage to end the "stalemate" of being in the triangle for 14 months, was born of my realization that my then-H was emotionally abusing and taking full advantage of me, for his own narcissistic gain, and that by allowing the situation to continue, I was PARTICIPATING in my own abuse! This realization was what gave me the courage and conviction to end this by filing for divorce and moving on to establish a mentally healthier life for myself. <P>Please understand that I do believe in saving marriages and wanted and tried very hard to save my own, to no avail. I do have a very forgiving nature and was willing to do whatever I could to put the affair past me, if he would have done even one thing to try to get help and to try to save our relationship. He did neither. It just started to dawn on me that my particular spouse's behavior during this affair really was tantamount to emotional abuse, and nothing more!<P>Wishing you brighter days ahead! They are there, but it takes a while.<P>Desiree<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Thank you all for responding. I still have days where I feel I am crazy. It's a long, long story and kind of embarrasing now when I look back and think of all the things I allowed this man to put me through. He didn't mind making me think I was crazy. Just one and a half weeks ago I SAW him drive by my house in his married girlfriends car.His response when I asked him why he was driving by here was" When did you see me? It's kinda hard to drive anywhere without a car" I saw him, why continue to make me feel I am crazy? It must be a control thing. He had his first affair(that I know of) last Feb-???2000, months of saying I don't know who is hanging up on you, months of I don't know who is paging me, when I told him I though I was obsessive compulsive, because these things were driving me crazy, he said"go to the Dr." she called for months, which I now know he was still in contact so why should she stop? I had to finally file a police report in August to get her to quit calling.I tried everything to get him to open up nd be honest, nothing worked. Finally I came to despise him, I knew certain things that he would not be honest about. I made him leave this Feb. Mind you I had not worked in 2 years. I had no job and 3 kids, but had to have him outta here before I lost my mind completely. 4 weeks later he started coming here" to see the kids" only to sit and tell me how much he loved me and missed me.I listened numbly for 4 hours one day. Then another night he left and tried to kill himself or so he says. Admitted himself to rehab for depression/alcohol/substance abuse. This gave me hope.I had already seen an attorney and was waiting for my paperwork.I did agree to go to group with him. I listened to him cry and tell these stangers how much he loved me and wanted to make everything up to me.I believed him. I put the divorce on hold and was determined to be there for him.When he got out he stayed with friends of ours who are non-using.I wasn't happy, but whatever it took for him to get better I was willing to do.I got a job and tried to move forward, for us. He would call or come by everyday still telling me he was going to his AA meetings, telling me he loved me and wanted to get better for us.I found out on our child's 3rd bday in April that he'd met a married woman in rehab, and had been seeing her since they got out. They had both been using AA meetings as an excuse to meet and drink nd have sex. I later found out she had begun pursuing him IN rehab as I found notes to him from her. The night I found out he called me drunk, from her cell phone. It was his only child's birthday, he hadn't bothered to call or come by to see him. She was more important.He also told this one he loves her, just like the last one. I didn't hear from him for 3 weeks, then he called to come see the kids. I let him, he told me he was in therapy and she was out of his life. He seemed different, I believed him again and let him back in. It only took a week this time to uncover he lies. We had a fight and it became physical. I wound up in the ER and filing a police report. I'd told him to leave and he refused.I was taken off work because I couldn't move. I filed for divorce finally. On top of all of this I did some digging, found out the entire time we'd been married, he'd had a criminal felony warrant for his arrest. If he'd been picked up anywhere near my children the state would've taken them. I was very angry as you can imagine. Still yet again, he called crying, threatening to kill himself because he was worthless, wanting to make things right. I fell for it again, and agreed to help him.I dropped my assault charges, so it wouldn't be so hard for him, plus he convinced me it was partially my fault for not listening to him. I picked him and his belongings up, dropped his car off to the owners and let him stay here for 2 days.He told me he wanted to do the right thing for us. He wanted to turn himself in so we could live free of this. He wanted to be the man I needed. He was so loving. I dropped him off on Friday, just almost 2 weeks ago. I then went to my attorney to start bankruptcy proceedings, I knew I had to get things straightened out in my life for myself and the kids. I sat in her office and cried. I was so scared for him. We did not have the money for an attorney for him since he'd quit his job the day after I filed charges, she gave me a card for an associate of hers who would help. I worked all weekend and worried about him. I couldn't sleep. I worried about his safety, I worried about him being locked up, I just worried. I finally called last Tuesday to see if they would tell me how he was, the worrying was driving me crazy.This and the fact that I'd seen him drive by that morning, but how could that be? he was in jail.Guess who'd bonded him out hours after i'd dropped him off? Yep, his married woman he'd met in rehab.I am a fool.I despise him. I am a quiet woman, who has trouble standing up to people.I burned everything he had that day.I have never been so angry in my life. I had never done anything like that in my life.I called his married girlfriends cell phone, left a message for him to call, called her home and left a message(i'd called her H the night I found out and told him about the affair, he didn't believe me)when my H called I told him he had nothing here and to never come here again.He showed up an hour later, he'd called the police before saying he needed to come get his things, they said ok. So when I called them because he would'nt leave, they refused to come. Even tho he'd sent me to the ER a few weeks before. I truly feel alone and without help.He finally left.I feel this was just another intimidation tactic to show me he would do as he chooses and I was defenseless. I went the next day for a protective order. Spent all day at DVIS, was to go before the judge at 4:30,guess he had better things to do. He left before I got there and only gave me a order for a hearing date for a PO. I felt let down all again. This did not protect me or the children. I was on my own. My bankruptcy attorney freaked out, she is helping me now with the divorce and PO. I live in a paranoid state of mind. I feel like I never knew him so don't know what he is capable of.Plus the fact that the police refused to come before, will they show up if he comes here again?My court date for my divorce and protective order are both next week. I am a mess. Is there an end? Am I strong enough to turn my back on him if he comes here saying he'll kill himself? I don't understand this. I was independant before I met him. How can someone take conrol of a mind like he has? I believed in him. He made me dependant on him. I was never allowed to leave the house without the kids. If I tried he would throw things around and yell at them, I always wound up taking them with me so they wouldn't have to endure his fits.My 11 year old would stay in his room at all times when H was home.He is ADD, but H didn't believe this, would say he was just lazy.He emotionally abused all of us and I allowed it. I was not strong enough to stop it. Why? How could I put myself and my children through this? See why I feel crazy? This is not me.Where am I?Where did the real me go? I live day to day, praying for an end, wanting to be happy and free from this mind game. This is the whole ugly story. I was conned and manipulated, but then feel like it is my fault for allowing it.I don't know what the truth is anymore.<P>[This message has been edited by alone now (edited June 14, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by alone now (edited June 14, 2001).]

alone now, My H is also an emotionally abusive alcoholic (and drug abuser). He hid his drug use and drinking from me when we first met 19 years ago, but within a few months after we moved in together, he began having outbursts of unprovoked rage directed toward me. I left him the first time and frequently thereafter, but he always drew me back with apologies and promises. Within a short time I realized that this were related to drinking episodes. I began going to Alanon off and on. One time I left for the night and came back to find another woman in my bed, but this was the only time I was aware of him cheating on me, then. <P>I finally left him for good (I thought) after tolerating his constant verbal abuse for 8 years, he'd lost his job and his professional license, I'd taken his 9 y.o. son, who lived with us 1/2 time, back to his ex-wife's house and told her not to let him come back, he'd left his car, broken down, in the ghetto where he went to buy drugs, and he'd smashed up my car.<P>At that point, he went to treatment and after many previous failed attempts, he got clean and sober and stayed that way for almost 10 years. During that time we got married, bought property in the country, moved, his son came with us, we built a house, he got his license back, we built a business together, and built another house closer to the business.<P>Then he started drinking again about 18 months ago. He'd drifted away from AA, his son had lots of serious behavior problems and his own substance abuse problems, I got diagnosed with breast cancer during which time he turned to a female employee his son's age for emotional comfort, and we became legal guardians of his niece and nephew because of their parents drinking and drug use (alcoholism is a family disease).<P>The verbal abuse started up again with the drinking. He screamed at me constantly for 4 months straight starting last August all based on his belief, after reading my journals, that I loved an old boyfriend from before we met more than him. After 4 months of this he suddenly left and moved in with OW (the employee 27 years younger than himself).<P>He hid from me for about a month, not coming to work and not responding to my pages or calls to his cell phone. When he finally responded, he continued the verbal abuse but finally began warming to me and talking about coming home. Every time he talked about coming home though, he'd disappear for about a week. This was so emotionally devastating that I started Plan B. After a month of Plan B, he finally did come home after living with OW for 4 months.<P>Once he came home, he began disappearing for hours and even overnight and he became verbally abusive again. This lasted only 1.5 months before he told me to leave. I couldn't take it any more. The next night he moved OW in and then threw the kids out because they refused to love the OW (!).<P>I got a restraining order and had them thrown out of the house. The house was trashed with beer cans, bottles, and empty cartons everywhere, rotten meat in the sink, my belongings trashed, etc. We also found a bag with drugs, which I'm told were "crank" (amphetamines) and syringes as well as marijuana and pipes, etc.<P>So here I am filing for divorce, many would probably say not soon enough. I am doing it mostly to protect our business. I love the man my H was when he was sober. I thought we had a wonderful life together, though now he says he wasn't happy. It's sad to see someone destroy his life the way he is, but I can't let him destroy me and our business too. <P>I also started going back to Alanon. I'd really recommend this to you. I think abuse and affairs are pretty common in alcoholic marriages so there's lots of support there.

Thank goodness this is not just me.I don't know anyone else who has or is going through this kind crazy mess. I keep trying to tell myself I am ok, it's his lies and manipulation that have made me feel like this ,but somedays it's hard to believe I'm sane when I think about everyhing.I know once I am totally free from him I will be ok, it's just keeping him away long enough for me to grow a backbone again.I will be strong again, I hope.

You will find many here in the same boat, me included.<P>All I can say is that it does get better. I wrote a post here a while ago about the man who kept hitting himself in the head with a hammer. That's the way I feel.<P>Why did he keep hitting himslef in the head with a hammer? Because it felt sooooo good when he stopped.<P>And it does feel good when you stop.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by grandpabri:<BR><B><BR>Why did he keep hitting himslef in the head with a hammer? Because it felt sooooo good when he stopped.<P>And it does feel good when you stop.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Prolific, as always!!<P>

There are a lot of people out there who are/have been going through exactly what you're going through right now. Most of us/them are either too afraid or ashamed (of what I couldn't tell you now) to seek help and support from friends and family. If anything AN, there are too MANY of us out here. <P>Sounds like you've made a decision. Stop beating yourself up and focus on getting through to the other side. I let my H pull this crap on me for ten years before I woke up and put my foot down. <P>We lose ourselves so often in our relationships. Especially women, especially mothers. There are men out there like this too, but I think it happens to women more often. We want our children to grow up in a complete family. We are willing to believe that if only WE changed, became better lovers, cooks, earned more money, were more attentive, were thinner or more buffed, then our spouse would really love us and never lie to us again, adore us like we adore them... yuckkk! And the really nasty ones take advantage of this. <P>I've hears how "psycho" I am. Even when I was sitting in a restauraunt with HIS friends who had just told about his cheating, I was psycho for believeing them. The neighbor he made a pass at? Psycho. His friend whose house he showed up at at 3AM and and made a pass at her too? Psycho. I saw scratches all over his back one morning -- I had no fingernails and we hadn't had sex in a few days. But guess what? I was psycho. <P>After so many years it is easy to start believing this about yourself! The person who holds your face in his hands and tells you you are precious to him LOVES YOU. So when he tells you you are psycho (and there's no one around to dispute him) what are you going to believe?<P>Don't punish yourself. Grow strong! Believe that you are NOT psycho, you are not wrong. You know better now so you don't ever have to believe him again! HE is an alcoholic. HE has abused your love and trust. Were you stupid for going along with it for this long? Is it stupid to love someone? Is it stupid to have hope? Is it stupid to believe that people can change, that we are basically good? No. I think it's noble, honorable, a good way to face the world. Unfortunately, we need to learn to protect ourselves from it, too. <P>Snow

Thank you snow, I sat here a cried reading that.Others have been here, I am not alone and I am not psycho. He is the sick one.He's just infected my brain.

[gasp!] We married the same man! He's a polygamist, too! My, my...he does get around. <P>Nell

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nell:<BR><B>[gasp!] We married the same man! He's a polygamist, too! My, my...he does get around. <P>Nell</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, don't talk about me like that! <P>

Hi <B>all alone</B> ~<P>No you aren't alone. What you are describing fits the experiences of many many alcoholic spouses.<P>My husband has always used the word "psycho" to describe me. And I could say, "the sky is blue" and he'd argue that it was purple, and convince me that there was something wrong with me for seeing blue and not purple.<P>That being said, I'm going to disagree slightly, at the risk of offending you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He's just infected my brain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is the most true statement you have made in this entire thread. You aren't alone, many of us have been there and survived. And yes, he is sick, and he has infected your brain. You are NOT psycho, but <B>you are sick too</B>. <P>I can hear you now, "What? HE's the addict, he's the one with the problem!!! What do I need help for? We just said that there is nothing wrong with me?"<P>Only this morning my friend said exactly that same thing to me when I suggested that she start attending Al-Anon because of her obvious emotional problems surrounding her childhood and current family issues - involving, guess what...alcoholics.<P>I couldn't convince her, anymore than I can convince you, that you too are sick. It's clear to me after spending 3 years in a 12 step program just how sick I was, and its not hard anymore for me to pick out people that are obviously affected by alcoholics. When I moved in to my town over a year ago, it was glaringly obvious that my neighbor, whom I knew nothing about, had been affected by this disease...sure enough, many months later, she told me that she had divorced her alcoholic husband 20 years ago. She had NEVER gotten help for herself, and to this day is still obviously affected by it. <P>Living with an alcoholic is traumatizing, and we become very sick with the same disease, minus the physical addiction to alcohol. Alcoholism is a three-fold disease that consists of a physical addiction, and also profound emotional and spiritual dysfunction. We catch that emotional and spiritual dysfunction so easily and so quickly, without even noticing it. That's why we in Al-Anon describe alcoholism as cunning, baffling and powerful.<P>I'd like to encourage you to get help and support through your local Al-Anon meetings. You'll be able to meet and get hugs from lots of warm caring people who have been where you are at, and understand like no one else does. Once you start recovery of your own, you'll learn how to detach with courteousy and love, and how to draw boundaries for yourself so that you can not only survive this, but find happiness and serenity! <P>((((hugs))))<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

You in no way offended me. You spoke of things I know I need to do but haven't. I grew up with an alcoholic mother. She was always very abusive verbally towards me when drunk, the next day she would buy me things or be very nice I guess to make up for it.My sister is also a drinker and my brother also. I have always been the stable one.Well not always, when I was a teen and into my early 20's I partied,had my first child at 24 and became responsible. I left his father after 2 years and started working.I have been the responsible one ever since.I'm the one they come to if they need someone to watch their kids or their kids need an escape.I know I need al non, my counselor even told me this. I'm always the one stepped on, can't say no.Good ole dependable me. I've really been alone for years,trying to make others happy. I have no idea what will make me happy. I also don't know why I haven't started al non, maybe it's i'm afraid of what i'll find in myself. All these years of just wanting to be loved, maybe I haven't loved myself enough to know i'm worth more. I don't know,I will make ita point to find a meeting next week.I work all weekend.Maybe I need to find one tomorrow.

alone now, I would second BrambleRose's suggestion. I am not as eloquent about it as she is, but I can tell you that I've gone to Alanon off and on, always slipping back into the denial of the disease. OW drinks and uses drugs with my H and I even tried to compete with her by trying to believe him when he said he'd learned how to drink "normally" and then drink with him. <P>I just started going back to Alanon, driven by the pain I'm in. Even one meeting made me feel better. I can misuse MB principles to convince myself that if I just do the right thing (plan A, plan B, no LBs, etc.) I can control the outcome of our situation. Well, Alanon reminds me that I can't. I need to treat other people with respect because I have to live with myself, not to manipulate or control them. <P>There is a lot of comfort and support there for the problems we face with our alcoholic spouses that differ somewhat from the average affair. Remember, you are not alone.

How about a voice from the other side. I am a verbal and emotional abuser and a recovering alky. It was the last time that I did rage on my wife that I changed, I remeber that day like it was yesterday I standing there yellinig at her and was outside myself telling me to stop but I could not stop. When I finally remeber stopping it was on my kneees in our bedroom asking no begging GOD to help me. I have since then redoubled an honest AA program, sought out Abuse Prevention and Anger Management therapy used a personal counsleror I attended ALANON meetings after a 4th and 5 th step. It was then and there that I realized the extent of the damage that I had caused thru my abuse. I have changed and continue to change I feel that Ihave broken the abuse cycle. The HELL of it is it may have cost me my only family. The healthier I get the more in love with my W i become. I see her faults see her attributes and love her ofr her. But it may be just a little to late for us I hope and pray otherwise. I guess what I am saying is to all of you who are sufferers of Emotional and Verbal ABUSE, ther is hope, if the abuser ( who by the way is also a victim) reegnizes and is willing to change for them selves not to save a marriage or to please a spouse<P>------------------<BR>If you are living in the problem then you are not part of the solution!<P>I CAN'T<BR>HE CAN<BR>I THINK I WILL LET HIM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have been the responsible one ever since.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ah hah! <P>That's what many children of alcoholics try to become and describe themselves as. What's behind that word though?<P>Desperate, mind gripping fear. Fear of not being good enough, fear of many unnamed disasters, fear of not being loved, fear of being alone...<P>And the result is that we tell ourselves that we are "responsible" when we are simply enabling and controlling.<P>Al-Anon is a safe place - you don't go to learn how bad you are - you go to learn that you are loved, and loveable, and you go to learn how to love...yourself first, and others second, in a healthy hopeful fashion.<P>Go get some hugs at a meeting, you deserve them.<P>--BR