OMG Rose, I am a worrier. I worry about eveything. I stress about everything.I got to wear a heart moniter a couple of years ago because of cardiac changes, and they determined it was stress.I was only 33 at the time.I worry about my kids, I worry about not being good enough at work, I worry about things my mind tells me "might" happen.I used to be much worse, i'd drive myself to the edge of a panick attack with worry.I have since learned to stop and deal with one thing at a time. Or should I say worry about one thing at a time.Funy thing is, the thing I wasn't worried about happened 2 tmes and that was my H infidelity.It caught me off guard and devestated me. Even though he was controling and manilpulative and an alcoholic I believed he loved me. I now believe he is not capable of feeling love for another, only the feeling of lust and who can give him what he needs.<P>Riden, thanks for insite from the other side of this. And I do believe people can change, it's just up to if the honestly want to change. My H lied and just said he wanted to change, but never showed it. I am happy for you and wish you luck. If things happen to not work out with your wife I hope you continue on the road to recovery and learn to love yourself. Believeing peole can change is why I stuck it out in this nightmare of a marriage way longer than I should have. I now know they have to really want to change for themselves.If they don't want to change in their hearts, they won't and my H is one who won't.It's easier for him to lie and use.

Well first off, too bad you can't change this topic subject. It should read: Is anyone else coming out of an Alcoholic relationship.<P>I don't really like the term 'emotional abuse' simply because it generally describes only a symptom of the real problem ~ in your case alcoholism, which often the victim is still in denial about.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Funny thing is, the thing I wasn't worried about happened 2 tmes and that was my H infidelity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Aaah but you are fooling yourself here. We worry about things because we imagine and delude ourselves into believing that we can control those things. You had no control over your H's affair. Worrying about it before hand would have solved what? <P>Trust me, if there was a way to control spouses and force them from having affairs, everyone of us on this forum would be lining up for the cure <P>I have fallen many times into that trap of thinking. If only I had paid more attention and worried more and DONE more then maybe I could have controlled the outcome and I wouldn't have gotten hurt. Aaaah and because the outcome was bad, it was MY fault! I failed, I'm wrong, I'm bad, and I gotta do better the next time. Driven by fear, in pursuit of my own idea of perfection...I make myself miserable and those around me miserable too.<P>Even worse, I take the responsiblity for my H's life away from him. I take that burden on me, and leave him free to blame me, to continue his unacceptable behavior, and to never face his life. And in the meantime, I'm dying inside from frustration and fear, trying to run and control what isn't mine to control in the first place.<P>It's called enabling.<P>In an attempt to control every aspect of our lives and others around us, we actually try to make ourselves responsible for many things that were not ours, and never will be. <P>That's why the serenity prayer is so powerful, and why I can see that you desperately could use the healing power of the 12 steps in your life.<P><I>God, grant me the Serenity, to Accept the things I cannot change (such as my husband), the Courage to change the things I can (like myself), and the Wisdom to know the difference.</I><BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

I guess this must also be where the shame comes from. I feel ashamed and embarrassed by the way he's treated me. Like if I'd been better at being a wife, mother, or woman he never would've treated me like this. It was nothing I did or didn't do, it was him, BUT, I allowed it.

Hey everyone,<P>My bell just got rung big time on this topic. If anyone would like to read the thread titled "Just a Little insight Please" posted by Vetrn, I suspect you see some real familiar territory. He sounds like he is in a world of denial.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

Bumper I just read the other thread you mentioned. It was kind of disturbing to me. It sounded like my ex. He would use other excuses to be around me..... seeing the kids mostly,then ignore the kids and I would listen to him tell me how he was changing, how he was sorry he'd hurt me, how he felt he was holding me back, how he loved me more than anything but understood.............I am confused.

And another thing. I was never allowed to leave the house alone.He didn't want me to work.........you stated that the abused usually are the ones to cheat, I never cheated. He carried on his first affair at work, made me out to be a really nasty orge, they were openly a couple. None of these people knew me, it was like I was kept in this little world and as soon as he stepped out of this house he became someone different.So am I the abuser? This is all confusing.

Thanks BrambleRose and RidenSober, I too have a huge problem with denial and falling for my H's protestations of love and despite his terrible behavior toward me and I have a hard time not accepting the blame he heaps on me for everything that's gone wrong in our relationship. <P>I have been through this with him before and know I have to detach and take care of myself. The added impact of owning and running a business together, having gone through breast cancer and disfiguring surgery, and his A with a 22 yr. old girl just intensify my misery. <P>Just as he got complacent about his recovery, so did I. I dropped out of Al-Anon years 6 years ago when we moved to where we live now. He continued in AA for quite a while, even chairing and co-chairing a local conference several times. From what I hear, the local AA group uses him as an example of what can happen if you forget where you came from. <P>So, all alone, as I said, you're not alone. I would recommend again that you follow the advice of these kind and wise people. I too look for every other answer. I get caught up in whether he loves me or not even now when the real issue is that as long as he's using drugs and alcohol there's no relationship possible, except with someone like OW. <P>Every time I hear through a relative or friend that he still loves me I melt. I hate to admit that because it's so sick. He is currently camping out with OW because they only have enough money to buy drugs and alcohol. He has been hateful to me and the kids, kicked us out and trashed our home, almost destroyed our business, and yet a word (not an action) from him will set me back to doubting myself.<P>So please, try Al-Anon. It helped me to detach from my H with love when I had to do it in the past, and that helped him to get sober more than allowing myself to be beaten down or believing his empty promises. I know it can help me know and I really believe it would help you too. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alone now:<BR><B>you stated that the abused usually are the ones to cheat, </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Alone now,<P>Arrggggh! I think I owe you both an apology and a point of clarification, here is the exact quote.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bumperii:<BR><B>Abused spouses are extremely vulnerable to extra-marital affairs, a fact that seems lost on abusers. </B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dear lady, That statement does not imply that the abused spouse is usually the one to cheat. Nothing could be further from my mind, I have no reason at all to believe that is the case. <P>It means the abused spouse is vulnerable, in a position to be taken advantage of. A victim of abuse needs to find comfort from somewhere, and opportunists can and do take advantage of them.<P>I certainly didn't mean to imply that you had done anything wrong, I sincerely apologize for placing that post right after yours without thinking about the effect it could have on you. I can sure see how it felt to you, I'm sorry it came out that way, my humble apologies.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper<P>

No need to apologize, it's pretty apparent I took that all wrong.

AN,<P>okay...lets see what you've done to "enable" his drinking..(I am speaking to myself here too..not trying to put the blame on you or take the blame upon myself..except where my<BR>responsibility lies..on me) You asked about a<BR>book..try Boundaries..it's wonderful..<P>You've bailed him out of trouble how many times??<BR>You filed bankruptcy for who??<P>How many times have YOU taken on the consequences of HIS actions?? How many times has he suffered the consequences<BR>of his actions?? <P>These things are called enabling..we protect them..we don't want them to suffer..we would rather hurt ourselves than see them hurt of suffer in any way shape or form..so in essence..we become "god" "savior" saving them from <BR>the hurt and pain..and suffering they should actually<BR>be feeling..and we take it upon ourselves..<P>like who the hell do we think we are??? Not that we<BR>try to control..but we try to make things easier for<BR>them..as someone already said..we try to be better..<BR>we think if only "We" did this or that...they would<BR>stop...and if we were god..that could work...but<BR>were not...soooooo...it doesn't work...<P>I think thats where alanon helps out..(i've never been<BR>so I am only guessing) they help you realize that<BR>we can't change enough to make them change..we can't<BR>love them enough..we can't suffer enough for them<BR>to make them change..they have to start feeling the<BR>suffering themselves in order to change..and until we<BR>leave..and step back and set up some boundaries <BR>for ourselves...they won't feel those effects..<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by ThornedRose (edited June 15, 2001).]

AN -<P>I have been in an emotionally abusive relationship for 17 years. No respect for me, making everything "MY FAULT" and I bought into it and just tried that much harder to "MAKE THINGS RIGHT". What a sham. H had an affair last year - which of course was my fault also because I was working my butt off in OUR business trying to do my part. After I caught him in his affair with one of our employees I filed for divorce - he asked for forgiveness and like a dope I took him back thinking that he had really seen the error in his ways and it would get better. Like your H, mine is an alcoholic also. I don't think it's blatent neglet, abuse, or anything like that I think they just "don't know what they don't know" there is something seriously missing in them. <P>We've been back together for about a year now. The Lord knows I have tried and tried and tried. We've been to counseling (8 or 9 months), but the things the counselor told him he needed to do to get things back in order were only done on his part for a week or two and then it was back to the same ol' same ol'. He continues to not meet my emotional needs - he'd rather sit outside and drink beer until it's time to go to bed. There's no tender, loving sex life, no togetherness, no real communication, NO NOTHING. Over our years together I just kept hoping things would get better and hung in there. Well, I have concluded that IT WILL NOT GET BETTER. At this point I must think of myself and my future happiness. I can't change him or help him. I am going to file for divorce as soon as I get my ducks in a row. There is a better life out there. Even if I am alone. Heck, I've been alone anyway all this time so why keep on trying. People can only change themselves you can't do it for them. I tell you my story to answer your question. NO you are not alone. I valued my marriage vows and said I would not be like my mother and father who divorced after 17 years I just wanted to hold on to my marriage vows, but after all this has happened, I want more. I don't think that God want's me to be miserable. I have done all I feel I can do and am beginning to feel like a sap. <P>AN, you are not stupid or an idiot, sounds like you just wanted to do the right thing and you loved this person. Remember that each and every one of us is special in the eyes of the Lord and he wants the best for us. If the OP doesn't want to participate or doesn't know how then you need to decide what's best for you.<P>Also, most alcoholics have Control issues. Sounds like that is where your H is. They are the ones with the low self-esteem and since they can't deal with it they mirror it on you.<P>Love does not conquer all. I am choosing to move on. Take the good with the bad, learn from it and hopefully come out a better person and take lessons learned to find a better mate.<P>AN, again, you are not alone! Hang in there and love yourself. You are special.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alone now:<BR><B>I am finally trying to be free from my lying cheating, emotionally abusive H. I tried everthing I could. Patience, counseling, I feel like my self esteem is gone never to return.I was isolated early on, he didn't like my frinds so they stopped coming around. He wanted me to stay home with he kids so I did. He is an alcoholic who I feel feels nothing. How can people so blatantly hurt others. How does a person look you in the eye and say"I love you and I want to change or us" while tenderly holding your face in their hands, then turn around and call their other woman? Don't get me wrong, I now know this was him, and not me.I believed him so many times and let him back in, is there anyone else here who feels like a complete idiot and has done the same thing? I feel alone in this. Like I am the only person ever fooled over and over and the only one stupid enough to believe he would change.Is there anyone here like me?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

I don't know how you've done it for so long. I know I can't do this anymore. I want to feel good abot life and be happy. Like you I feel like I have been alone most of this marriage also. I asked my H a little over a month ago when my birthday was, he had no clue. Made me feel really unimportant in his life.<BR> This being father's day weekend I have a bad feeling he will try to contact me, he's used the excuse of seeing our child before to get to me, I think I have enough anger to stand up to him and tell him to go away.If not I have the police.<BR> And I also know I have enabled him, after I read the post on enabling I realized how many times I took up for him or defended him. Like when he never showed up for family events, or never wanted to go to Holiday get togethers.I always tried to make things easier for him.I took care of him. It really hurt me when I was 8 months pregnant and working, on my feet all day, I would come home and cook dinner, clean the house, get the kids ready for bed, take my bath and he wouldn't even rub my sore feet or back.He wouldn't touch me. No physical contact for like 5 months,makes me wonder if there wasn't someone else then............you know how you feel about yourself when big and pregnant anyway, he made me feel like some kind of repulsive creature.There has to be something more to life than this.<BR> And yes, I am the one who filed for divorce, I am the one who is having to fie bankruptcy now, I am the one supporting our child. But I am also the one who will get help and get better.I do have a future. I have a home, a great job, 3 wonderful healthy kids........know what he has? Nothing, nothing except one screwed up head and a married alcoholic girlfriend.They deserve each other.

AN, It was hope - wanting it to be alright. I think when we get married we want it to be good and last forever. But it really does take two to make that happen. I really tried, doing all the things that you have done - covering for him. What a joke. The jokes on us. But know that reality has set in it is up to us to make our lives better. And THERE IS BETTER. There is someone out there that will give as we give.<P>I don't have children - he didn't want any and made the decision pretty much on his own to get a vasectomy. I had to make a choice. I chose him. I felt like he loved me a lot and I had to decide did I want to stay with this man who confessed to loving me (now I realize while tearing me down - of course I couldn't do anything right including loading the dishwasher) or leaving him and finding someone who "loved me as much as he" that wanted children. I love animals and have focused my life on giving my love to them - three horses and a dog. Lots of other events through the years that were a big love buster, but again and again chose to stay in it - I guess out of fear that I couldn't do any better. Which is something I was always told "you can't do better than me". I BELIEVED HIM. Well not anymore.<P>About a month ago, quite by accident, I met a single man who has fallen head over heals for me. He is NOT an alcoholic, has a good head on his shoulders, is successful and has a lot of compassion. I don't want to do the affair thing, I told him I could not get into something that I could not finish. It would not be fair to him or me. My convictions for marriage wouldn't allow it. Do you know what he told me? He said, "I will wait." I really want to know this person better. What this OM has done for me is make me realize that I DO COUNT. That I deserve better and that there IS better out there. What an eye opener. I am going to bite the bullet and stand up for me. There is going to be a lot of pain in going through divorce (I felt that last year when I filed - it was like mourning the death of someone dear) but I'm ready now to really go through it. I will do whatever it takes to make my life (FOR ME) better.<P>I'm sorry for your pain and everyone elses that endures an abusive relationship. Those type of relationships are NOT from God. I have finally come to the conclusion through much soul searching that he will forgive me (if I ask) for breaking my marriage vows.<P>May God bless us all through our pain.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alone now:<BR><B>I don't know how you've done it for so long. I know I can't do this anymore. I want to feel good abot life and be happy. Like you I feel like I have been alone most of this marriage also. I asked my H a little over a month ago when my birthday was, he had no clue. Made me feel really unimportant in his life.<BR> This being father's day weekend I have a bad feeling he will try to contact me, he's used the excuse of seeing our child before to get to me, I think I have enough anger to stand up to him and tell him to go away.If not I have the police.<BR> And I also know I have enabled him, after I read the post on enabling I realized how many times I took up for him or defended him. Like when he never showed up for family events, or never wanted to go to Holiday get togethers.I always tried to make things easier for him.I took care of him. It really hurt me when I was 8 months pregnant and working, on my feet all day, I would come home and cook dinner, clean the house, get the kids ready for bed, take my bath and he wouldn't even rub my sore feet or back.He wouldn't touch me. No physical contact for like 5 months,makes me wonder if there wasn't someone else then............you know how you feel about yourself when big and pregnant anyway, he made me feel like some kind of repulsive creature.There has to be something more to life than this.<BR> And yes, I am the one who filed for divorce, I am the one who is having to fie bankruptcy now, I am the one supporting our child. But I am also the one who will get help and get better.I do have a future. I have a home, a great job, 3 wonderful healthy kids........know what he has? Nothing, nothing except one screwed up head and a married alcoholic girlfriend.They deserve each other.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

"He is an alcoholic who..feels nothing." <P>i think this sums it up, and everyone here who's been (or is) in a relationship with an alcoholic/addict can relate. for ten years i thought "if i were A)sweeter B)more attractive C)more understanding or D)less 'uptight', my spouse will A) show me the love i just 'know' he feels B)show me the respect i just 'know' he has for me and C)become a full partner in this relationship rather than its sullen, volatile FOCUS.<P><BR>these things, of course, never happened. during rare moments of clarity for him, or after a few days or weeks of sobriety, some of the 'real' person that my H once was would start to shine through. this would be enough to sustain me for months, through the other 75% of the time that he neglected, ignored, berated, disregarded and laughed at me. i became accustomed to seizing these fragments and weaving a 'whole' relationship from them. meanwhile, i withered emotionally, i developed clinical anxiety, i nagged, i cried all the time, i begged for what i needed. he simply could not provide it. his world has shrunk to a very tight circle of things - keeping his job, trying to sustain his (drinking) friendships and going out to drink. if he manages these things, he does not have to FEEL, or wonder why he doesn't feel; he doesn't have to look at why he is numbing himself, he doesn't have to look at the internal pain he has that makes him self-medicate. <P>it's not me. it never was. and it's not you, it never was. you thought, probably, at the beginning, that you were in a relationship with a reasonable adult person. you were not. there is no possibilty of a 'normal' relationship with an addict; they cannot feel, or act or react, as a 'normal', non-addict would. they simply cannot, no matter how many times they say, or think, or promise that they can. until the addiction and the pain it masks is addressed, nothing will ever change the outcome.<P>many people learn to live with this, learn tools for surviving and even thriving in a relationship with an addict, learn how to 'detach' and to nurture their own souls while still married to the addict. all to the good. others leave, and heal the pain of losing their fondest dream by themselves, with the help of friedns and family.<BR>there is one right way. <P>but remember what you said:<BR>"He is an alcoholic who..feels nothing." <P>this part is true. the rest, how you heal and protect yourself, is utterly up to you. and there is some excitement, some pleasure in that freedom. i know, i'm right there myself.<P>stay safe,keep your kids safe, do whatever you have to to heal. that's your only job right now.<BR>best,<BR>m

[gasp!] [gasp!]<P>Hey, Nell, you're right! he IS a polygamist and he's married to MAYBE, also! Where does he find the time... ?<P>Maybe's post could have been written by me too so I have nothing new to add there. Only, notice how common THEY are and how common our reactions and coping methods?<P>Bramblerose has helped me so much -- thanks BR -- really helped me to take a better look at myself and get me into AlAnon. Something I should have done before I married, anyway. <P>Peace and hugs<P>Snow <P>

I think I know how my father felt now, he lived with my alcoholic mother for years, till the day he died at the age of 47.I remember he would fish and golf do his own things, I see it now as his escape.<BR> I guess another part of the reason I kept trying was because I did see the tortured soul inside of my husband and thought I could love him enough to make himself feel better about himself.Funny thing was, I tried to boost his self esteem and he never listened, but let some other woman come along who knew how to stroke his ego and he was "in there". I think that's part of the reason we or I anyway feel like I am less, my words meant nothing, my feelings meant nothing,I meant nothing. I was stability, the one who was always there.I'm not here for him anymore, I'm here or me and my children, we deserve better. The longer he stays away from me the stronger I feel. I know he is in hell(I hope anyway) and only he can make himself better or drown in misery. It's sad to say, and I'm sorry, but I am glad I'm not alone. These are all feelings i've kept inside, it feels so good to let them out and know you all understand. It is so hard when you love someone to see them hurt, but I have taken all the hurt from him that I can. I cannot heal him, therefore I am setting him free to learn how to deal on his own.I want to be happy.

Hi alonenow,<P>I will be alone soon too. Just as soon as I find a part-time job to add to my current part-time job.<P>I have lived with emotional abuse for almost 20 years and the past two have been the absolute worst. <P>My h shoved me into the refrigerator when I was pregnant the first year we were married. Luckily, it was the last time, but the blame, anger rages, denial of what is occurring, and conflicting messages have driven me crazy. <P>I was happy to read that you feel stronger without your h. That's encouraging for me to know. I hope I have the same experience.<P>I am filing for a divorce monday. That brought up a whole lot of pain until a few minutes ago when I dared to say something he didn't like and he abused me again. He said, "Hi Baby" and I repeated him with "Hi Baby?" wondering what he was calling me that for. We've only been roommates for the past couple of months. No intimacy or anything.<P>Out came his anger and verbal abuse. <P>Up until then, I had forgotten who he is because things have been so peaceful. We live as roommates and nothing more, so without a true relationship, his abuse has decreased. Separate bedrooms and general talk only.<P>Anyway, just thought you'd like to know there is one more person out there in the same boat as you. You are just one step ahead of me (separated)<P>Take care,<P>hopefulheat <P>

Hopeful I do get stronger everyday and so will you. I still hurt, but I think it's for the "fantasy" of what I thought we "could" be together.Every morning that I wake up and don't wonder where the beer money will come from, or what kinda mood he will be in so I can adjust mine accordingly, or if when he says he loves me wonder, does he mean it? Everyday I can come and go as I please. No one here to make me feel guilty for going to the store with or without the kids, no one here to make me feel guilty about talking to my friends. I can make phone calls now and not hear, "who are you talking to?" and get the roll of the eyes. No one here to lie through his teeth and make me feel like crap. No more wondering where he is or who he's talking to. No more being afraid to stand up for myself and my kids. No more of my 11 yr old staying in his room all day. No more of me fighting with him to NOT let the kids take drinks of his beer.The kids don't even cry for him anymore. It's like we are all free all of a sudden. I am still a little paranoid because I know he will come back, sooner or later, and give me that same ole look, you know the look that says" I'm so sorry I've hurt you,please talk to me", thank goodness 2 weeks ago when he did that I was able to shut the door in his face.I have to find the strength to keep doing that.I am so afraid I will get "comfortable" and let my guard down, then BAM he will be here and I will be weak.So I have to stay on guard and push for the protective order and push for this divorce and push for my future and sanity.You do too.

Dear alone now,<P>It sounds like you have so many positive reasons why the separation is healing and healthy for you and your <BR>child(ren). I'm so glad to hear that you are free. <P>I wish I was too. All in good time!<P>Like you, I need to remember why I am going through with all this and not be lulled into the "fantasy" of what could have been. I found myself going into some major grief when I started working on the divorce papers two days ago. Longing for the old relationship and wishing it didn't have to end. Luckily, my H snapped me right out of that with his abuse. It had been about a month or so since he had been abusive and I forgot, crazy as that seems. The old feelings and sick stomach came back so quickly. It was scary and just what I needed. A wake up call.<P>Although I'm sure it is pretty normal to grieve this loss, I have so much to do to get myself free. I need to act now, grieve later.<P>Thanks for your response. Take good care of yourself ok?<P>hopefulheart<P><BR>

AN,<P>You said something that was a trigger..."your mom was/is an alcholic" so you learned to cope with her..and when you married a man like that..(it was normal) I mean...the feelings were familiar..Have you read the book "adult children of Alcholics?" It's pretty good...and in it I'm sure you will see the way your children are learning to cope..NOW..<P>like I see my oldest daughter (12)...afraid to have fun..afraid to laugh and play w/ her brother and sister..for fear of being yelled at..afraid to talk to him about things for fear that he will withdraw his love...and afraid of how he will react to what she says or does...<P>My youngest daughter(nine)..is always trying to "please" everyone..always trying to be the one who holds things together..if she's just good enough...if she makes straight<BR>A's then things will be okay..if she cleans enough..if she does whatever...it will make things okay...<P>My son..gets angry..and hits and throws things...I'm working on these things..like when he's angry or hurt..and upset that dad told him he'd come get him..and dad tells him he isn't coming..he takes it out on everyone else..I take him in my arms and tell him it's okay to be hurt..it's okay to be mad..and it's okay to cry...but that doesn't mean it's okay for you to hit anyone else..because of it..lets talk about what you feeling..see if we can put words to those feelings..and he sits in my lap and crys and says..."dad is a liar" or "dad would rather drink than spend time with us"<BR>these things hurt me to hear my SIX yr old say them..<P>It's bad when the kids say...I am going to do this..I ask..You don't want to wait for your dad to be here? And they say..."if I wait for dad to be here I'll never do it"<P><BR>See, kids learn to cope..also..mine have been blest in the fact that I have been in counseling..and I have been trying to teach them they don't have to put up with this...sad thing is...its taken me longer to learn this lesson (i grew up not having the right coping methods)...but I am learning..and watching them..I know am doing the right thing..to help them to be healthy adults..<P>read Toxic Parents..Adult children...Boundaries..and there are other books you could read also that can help you...get yourself in counseling if you not already..and work on you..<BR>not just for you...but for your kids also...<P>And allow your h to start facing the consequences of his own actions..and remember...You do have choices..