Well, I haven't posted to this forum in a long long time.<P>I have just had my first face to face with me wife since 5MAY01. It was an all in all good meeting. My wife cried, and told me she didn't want to fight with me anymore, and I responded in kind, telling her I don't want to fight anymore either.<P>As such, I told her I loved her, then I kissed her neck during the first hug we have shared in months. I will signing her request for divorce next week, and within a week , it will probably be filed. That will leave us approximately 60 days to either let it go the course, or change our minds. I am thinking of making one last ditch proposal that we stop this for a period of 6 months and see if we can reunite ourselves. Is this just too much hoping?<P>Vet

I don't know your whole story, but I think if you really feel that way, you should go ahead and make the "last ditch" effort....what could it hurt? <P>If she says no, then you are at the same place you are now. <P>If she says yes, well who knows.......<P>Good luck,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Well I don't know how long you have been separated or what is going on with you. I wonder what is the hurry if you are willing to wait? Is she in a hurry? what do you have to loose by waiting?<P>

ok,, For those who don't know the entire situation,, I hope this will fill you guys in.<P>I really am on my last legs... I am newly married, about 10.5 months to be<BR> precise,, myself and my wife are seperated, and she has filed for a divorce based on irreconcilable differences. I<BR> have caught her having an affair, and when confronted,, she stated she wanted a divorce. I said fine!<P> I went to my attorney,, started drawing up the papers, but then stopped them the following day. I had calmed<BR> down, and decided that my wife is too important to me to let her go like that. I had told her that I had hoped we<BR> would both calm down before filing for a divorce, she waited a total of 4 days. I know she is scared, and I know<BR> she is ashamed, and I know that she is angry. I have been asking for some sort of counseling for us since the<BR> seperation, and she is still "thinking" about it. Of course, in 2 days she wen't from "I can't" to "I will think about it."<BR> I have been trying to remind her of the love we once had for each other, and that we still have that love for each<BR> other, and that we just need to both work on the marriage at the same time for once, just to see where it leads. I<BR> have offered several compromises to her in our situation, the cheating is NOT the issue in my eyes, the events<BR> that led to the cheating is what I am trying to correct, and she feels I am trying to "buy" my way into her heart.<BR> Right now, I am at an impass. I am in a holding pattern over a hostile landing zone. The fact that she is talking to<BR> me now gives me some comfort, as before, she wasn't talking to me at all, and when she was, she was crying. I<BR> have carefully avoided bringin up the cheating at this time, because I feel that she will bring up to me in her time<BR> when she is ready, she knows I know, and I forgive her for it, and that's what's important. I have looked back in<BR> our marriage, and have seen some of the things I have done to push her away from me. I am trying to work on<BR> those things as well. We are both tired and frustrated from the fighting, and it has been a difficult 6 months for<BR> both of us. I keep hoping that she will come around and see that our marriage IS worth saving. I have prayed to<BR> God daily for a resolution to our problems, and for the strength to keep moving forward with this, and for her to<BR> realize what our marriage means to her as well. <P> This is my first marriage, and her second one. I had waited for 31 years before I got married, and no other person<BR> has ever filled my emptiness like she has. The divorce papers are still going forward at this time, and the closer it<BR> gets to being done, the more dispair I am having as to the actual attempts by us to save this marriage. If I have<BR> overlooked something, please let me know. I have told her how important she is to me, I have told her that she<BR> completes me, I have told her that I want to be the husband she both wants and deserves. And most importantly,<BR> I have told her that I want HER to be happy more than anything in the world. The rest I commend to God's will.<P>This was intitially posted on the 14 of May, and since then, we have argued relentlessly over stupid stuff, until the Friday before Memorial Day, I told her, I agree with her, we should get divorced. Then, 2 weeks later, she calls, wants a face to face, ironically it was a day after she had sent her responce to my responce for her divorce. She canceled intial face to face on Monday, then called Wed night and asked if she could come over and get her stuff. The following is the synopse of the meeting. <P>First face to face meeting over and done with. Now,, it's time to critique it....<P> 1. Welcomed her in with alot of PMA.<BR> 2. Told her she looked good.<BR> 3. Let her go and get what she wanted, out of both the china cabinet and attick.<BR> 4. Told her that I had something that I needed to say, and then told her that I had done and said alot of things<BR> that was wrong and that hurt her. And I was sorry for that. I told her that I see where I have been controling in<BR> our relationship and I am working on that. I told her that I didn't blame her for not wanting to be with a controlling<BR> a**hole like me. (she started to cry). I told her that I will sign her D papers and have them to her attorney by next<BR> week, that I did not want to stand in the way of her happiness.<BR> 5. She told me to trim the rose bushes, and if I ever needed a babysitter for Tigger, my cat, she would watch him<BR> for me, even tho she 'hated' him. The cat ran right up to her.<BR> 6. Gave her a book, "The Road Less Traveled" told her to read it or not, it was a gift from me to her, and that I had<BR> read it, and it was very helpful to me.<BR> 7. Asked for a hug at her car, she hugged me tight, and told me that she didn't want to fight with me anymore,<BR> and I told I didn't want to fight with her either. I whispered "I love you" into her ear, and kissed her neck.<BR> 8. I think she mumbled "I love you" when she got in the car, but can't be for certain.<BR> 9. She told me that if I needed anything, all I had to do was call her, to which I responded, I have been afraid to<BR> call her because of the restraining order issue. She said that she just didn't like some of the things I said and did. I<BR> don't think there will be a restraining order now.<BR> 10. She told me she had alot of things to work on, and that she was glad that she was moving in with her mother,<BR> and that she didn't want any type of relationship with anyone at this time.<BR> 11. Man,, she looked good to me,, She smelled good.. and her neck tasted good. I MISS HER SO MUCH!<BR> 12. Asked her if we could go to dinner one day soon, she said probably. She said she would see me around.<BR> <P> Thanks for listening,<P> Vet <P>Sorry so very long.<BR>

Vetrn,<P>Read your post yesterday. I'm concerned about what you wrote. But what you didn't say really leaves me troubled. There is no diplomatic way to ask, but it needs a little more information.<P>You referred at some length to the wife's affair, but mentioned the <B> restraining order issue </B> only in passing. How did that come into play? One can understand a person putting his best foot forward, but that is an essential part of what you are writing about.<P>Let me make my definition clear. The spouse batterer is anyone who has ever raised a hand in anger toward a spouse, or touched a spouse in any way in anger. The batterer is frequently a control freak with a bad temper; he may have been raised in a home where battering was common. Oh, and by the way, he never sees himself as a spouse batterer or abuser. He tends to rationalize, minimize and deny the seriousness of what he has done.<P>Abused spouses are extremely vulnerable to extra-marital affairs, a fact that seems lost on abusers. <P>The steps you numbered, 1 through 12 are consistant with the behavior of a spouse batterer. What you wrote is right out of the textbook, including the fact that you did it while only the two of you were present! It is a pattern abusers and abused spouses get into. Arguments turn into slapping, grabbing, restraining, punching, kicking etc. Then when he realizes he is losing her, he is overcome with guilt, remorse and fear. Apologies, sweet talk, endearments and guilt trips con the wife back into the fold. Once secure, the pattern of abuse starts all over again, only worse. The beatings and injuries become more severe and many times it results in death. <P>There is a reason why restraining orders are issued, and why they prohibit the abuser from calling and communicating with the spouse. It is part of the abused spouse syndrome to be a sucker for these apologies, and even to participate in the deception and denial. The fact that you used the occasion of her visit to pick up stuff to talk to her could well be one example of the types of behavior that the restraining order seeks to eliminate. It sounds like you are on some pretty shaky ground.<P>If you want to save your marriage, the very first thing you need to work on is you, not her. Did you know that spouse abusers almost always get that backwards? They want to work on getting the marriage back together first and worry about their own "little character defects" later.<P>Maybe I'm way off base here. But there is some reason why that restraining order was issued. I would really recommend that you accept responsibility to see that the order is obeyed completely, to the letter. <P>Please, Please, take a long hard, <B> rigorously honest </B> look at your own actions, and seek professional help. Don't wait for a court to intercede. <P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper <P><BR> <P><BR>

Hi Vetrn,<P>I have alot of questions after reading your description too. I wish your wife was posting here ~ I think we'd get a clearer picture of what is going on.<P>I agree with Bumper, there's some big red flags going off for me too. It's funny, just recently a man approached me and desperately wanted to date me ... he told me a long story about how his unreasonable wife vindictively put a restraining order on him. I am not dating, so I didn't pursue this relationship. Later yet, this man proudly told me how he 'scared' his employees into behaving by a display of physical violence (throwing furniture).<P>Restraining orders are usually granted for a pretty good reason. If they are filed friviously, they are pretty easy to get revoked. So why did she ask for one, and why is it still in place?<P>Vetrn, you said you are married 10.5 months, but the last 6 have been difficult. Difficult for who? If your wife has been having an affair for the last 6 months, then I suspect she found your marriage difficult from the very first.<P>Many victims of abuse (physical or addiction related) have affairs, giving them the courage to leave their abusive spouses. It may not be "moral" or "right" but that's what it takes for many of us ~ we need the strength of someone else to leave.<P>So what are you doing to work on yourself??? Your marriage can't be worked on if your own issues are not fixed first.<P>Your actions and descriptions raise the hair on the back of my neck. And I haven't ever been physically abused. I lived many years with alcoholic dysfunction however, and I know how abusers and controllers act.<P>Once they realize the victim is out of their control, they'll promise ANYTHING to get the boundaries remoived and the victim back into a comfortable setting, where the abuse begins again.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>....and no other person has ever filled my emptiness like she has. I have told her how important she is to me, I have told her that she completes me, I have told her that I want to be the husband she both wants and deserves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This are not emotionally healthy statements. My alcoholic H is now off pursuing a new relationship to "complete" him. He's empty ...not because of a failing on my part, but because of a sickness and lack of spiritual and emotional maturity on his part. No one can "complete" or "fill up" another person. <P>I hope you take Bumper's post very seriously, and get yourself a therapist ~ and be very rigorously honest with yourself and him. <P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Bumper,<P>I appreciate your input. Let me answer your questions as best I can.<P>1. My wife has not saught a restraining order against me officially. She has brought it to light in the divorce negotiations. She did this in regards to an 'obsessiveness' which I displayed when we first seperated. I would call her frequently and literally beg her to come home. This, is a very typical male responce to this situation. Not to mention that the very first time she ever saw me truly angry was when I discovered her affair. Naturally, this would bring fear into someone.<P>2. I have never raised my hand in anger to my wife. Or anyone else for that matter. Yes, I have been angry with her. Yes, I have raised my voice to her, especially since the seperation. Any anger I have perceived towards my wife, is usually resolved in less than 24 hours. I cannot stay angry at her for long. Usually when I get angry with her I walk away, and I resolve it within myself; then I hug her, kiss her, tell her I love her, and apologize to her.<P>3. The only time I have touched my wife in any fasion other than a loving manner was when I discovered her affair, and I place my hands on her shoulders to ask her to stay and talk to me. This was a VERY wrong thing to do. And have since, not intitiated any physical contact with her. At no time was I ever intended on harming, striking, or otherwise injuring my wife. <P>4. I have control issues. It is the nature of my chosen life. These are the issues I have apologized for to my wife. I tried to fit her into my own personal perception of the world, instead of accepting her for who she is. My wife is a controling type individual as well. She dictates when we make love, and basically does what she can to make me feel bad until her objectives are met. I have, in my research, discovered that 98% of all relationships are a controled base relationship in one form or other. <P><BR>5. Bramble: Yes, I recognize that my wife cannot 'complete' me as such. That statement was made EARLY in our seperation while emotions were still dictating my every action. Now that I have some degree of a handle on these emotions, my responce is simply, I want nothing more than my wife to be happy. I sincerely hope that it will ultimately be with me, but no matter how this relationship ends up, her happiness is paramount. And just to clarify something you mention, you can get a restraining order on any person, for any reason, and it is not easily revoked. This tends to be easier for a female to obtain than a male. And there is no need for any sort of witness to any event that is alleged. At least that is how it is in my state. <BR>Does this describe someone who is a batterer? No. I don't think so. Does this describe someone who is agraid of loosing the best thing that has ever happened to him? Yes, most definately.<P>As far as professional help is concerned, I am going to counseling to help resolve my control issues. If the subject comes up that I am a spouse batterer, then it will be addressed. Thus far, however, I do not feel that I am able to harm my wife or anyone else for that matter. To the best of my recollection, I was brought up in a controlling environment, but never one of violence or abuse. <P>Thanks for your concern,<P>Vet<P><BR>Thanks for your input<p>[This message has been edited by vetrn (edited June 15, 2001).]

Gals,<P>I understand your "red-flags" when the issue of a restraining order comes up, but when you say that usually there is always a good reason for it, I have to disagree with you. Case in point is my X. When she initially moved out, she left by saying that I would never change and that all the nice things I had been doing for the past 8 months were temporary and I would go back to being the indifferent husband I was. So when she left, I chose to do a few little things like leave two cards on her windshield while she was at work. This is something that men and women definitely see differently: You see when I did this when everything was going great, she loved it. But now when things weren't so great she invented this whole situation where I was "stalking" her. Ridiculous. I only did it to let her know that even though we were apart, she was still on my mind. The way I saw it, it was TOTALLY harmless.<P>Needless to say, word got back to me that she was talking about getting a restraining order against me! Me, the most compassionate, non-violent person I know! It was so absurd that the person who told me about what she said, was laughing while they told me (and it was one of HER friends). But for someone who did not know me, to hear that, they must have thought I was some type of psycho. Since then I have spoken to several guys who went throught the same thing and did the same thing (leave little reminders for their wives) and EVERY one said the same thing happened.<P>So maybe to actually have a restraining order "initiated" there has to be grounds, but during divorces/separations this issue is tossed around VERY frequently with the spouse having no "real" intent of seeking one - kind of like they are just using the threat of one as another tool to convince people that what they are doing is right. And not too surprisingly, it is something used very often by those spouses who are in fact "in the fog". Many times the person who is saying it, has no idea of the damage it is doing to their spouse's reputation.<P>So I don't think Vet is to be labeled a batterer so quickly...<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.