Hi Folks,<P>Don't know if you recognize me, I haven't posted on GQII in a very long time. I'm here now because I really need support and help with being a D person. Stats:<P>Married 16 years, together 21<BR>2 OW, 2 OCs<BR>Discovery, June 1999 (OW #2 revisited)<BR>Plan A, 11 mos<BR>Seperated, April 29, 2000<BR>Plan B, soon after seperation and still in Plan B<BR>H filed on my Bday, had me served Christmas eve day<BR>Divorced, June 13, 2001<P>The last 3 mos or so I have been struggling with memories of my H and I and our entire life together. Because I went into Plan B before losing all love for my H, I still have fond memories of him, and "yes" I miss him. You'd think after so many bouts with infidelity in our marriage I wouldn't, at least I hoped I wouldn't by now. While thinking about all of this I realize there has never been just him and I in our marriage, there has always been a "third" person involvement on his part.<P>I guess I'm posting because I'm looking for some sort of validation that I was his wife. And wondering if that ever meant anything. And what puzzles me most is how I feel I'm waiting for his new relationship with OW to crash and burn so I can feel better knowing that the illicitness of their affair has eventually destroyed them. <P>I do know I should move on from here, I'm having a hard time with it. These images of he and I, the psychological imprint of "him" won't seem to let go. They affect my dreams and I wake up upset and angry.<P>I don't take any meds, I would prefer to take a natural approach. And I do have good days, but I always feel somewhat disconnected, alone. <P>Have any of you experienced the same, post "D". And if so, what have you done to help yourself thru this? I'd appreciate any advice or kind words you have to offer. I'm back here, MB, because I admit I need help, I just can't seem to do this on my own. <P>Thanks All .... <P>Prayers,<BR>Jo<P>------------------<P>"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited June 19, 2001).]

Hey Jo!!<P>It's really good to see you posting again! <P>I don't have much advice, but I can give (((((HUGS))))). About not taking meds, how about St. John's Wort? It really worked well for me. I was able to focus on everyday things alot easier and my emotions were more even. Think about it, ok? <P>Mitzi

I did share many of your feelings, though mostly <B>before</B> the divorce was final. Like you, I'm now hoping my ex's relationship crashes and burns, partly out of a feeling of "justice," partly because I just feel that anyone who acts the way she does would logically be a failure at relationships.<P>As far as validating that you were his wife, I think you have to move beyond this. I'm guessing this is another way of saying that you want to know that he had loved you at some point. I used to think this, especially since she told me she had never loved me. But I remember things she used to say and do for me; I know the love was there.<P>I never took meds either, though I came close. But I didn't like the sound of getting off of them. So I decided to deal with it myself. What helped me was Plan A. In a sense, I would ask myself, "What would I be doing today if I had <B>never</B> been married? What would be something I enjoy myself? And then go do those things.<P>Maybe it might help you to know that everything you're feeling is valid. He did a terrible thing to you. Another thing that helps me is to think about the scenario in which I'll hear that my ex's relationship has failed. What should I be doing now so that if that scenario happens, I'll look back on my actions now and feel proud of what I did?<P>You will feel better with time. I don't know when, maybe months from now, maybe years from now, you'll look back at these awful feelings you feel now, and it will seem like a distant memory.

Hello Jo-<P>I am so sorry that you feel this way. You are such a beautiful person, And usually so confident. I hope it returns to you.<P>About H, I think you may remember that, because there has always been a shadow lurking, the true third party was his career and his self image. To be in a band has all that goes with it. Being from LA, I totally understand about that kind of thing, the self image one has when admirers flaunt around. It is such a high.<P>The fact that he chose you does say something. He always turned to you for the final act in every thing he ever did. He is a big kid, and did not get it together in time for you. Know that the losses are felt by the both of you, but HE caused them. You did all you could, it was not meant to be. He did not HONOR and CHERISH you as you deserved. <P>Please know that the pain will lesson as you try to remember his basic character. It is just not condusive to a permanant marriage with someone who actually loves him. Do not judge him for being in another place in his journey of life than you are. Everyone reaches certain crossroads at a different times in their lives. You reached maturity before he did. This is what really happened with me and J.<P>I am sad that you did not come to better terms with all of this before you went to plan B. I see the importance now. One does have to consider the consequenses of our actions, even if they are to promote the good. There is always the chance that things will not go your way. It happened to me. Every time i asked for the next step. <P>When I asked J for a divorce a month ago, it was because I was fully ready. and I knew that I could never love the man he had become. All our unrealized dreams would never be, and I had been fooling myself to think that I could fix our marriage without his input. Fooling myself for a long time. He has not loved me in a long time and just does not have the guts to do his own decision making. He just avoids. Still. He even is waiting for me to do all the planning and filing, etc. Big kid. <P>I never went to plan B. My kids would have felt it and would have felt forced to choose sides if I had shown J complete estrangement.<BR> I never wanted my kids to go through that. I was also working with my own demons about my parent's divorce, and i did not want my kids to have it as I did. I hurt for so long. I am slowly telling my community(friends, etc) about the divorce. Most did not even know he moved out 4 1/2 months ago. <P>I decided that my best plan would be to move cauciously into the divorce and so there would be a frindship possible in the future--which makes us better parents. I still do not consider us friends, without talking or confiding, there is no basis for that. <P>I had to be sure I was really past it. Allison told me that. She told me when I was past caring, or being mad, or hurt, then I would be ready. I cannot yet share his joy, but at the same time I am not pained by his girlfriend, or his choices. I feel sorry for him. Sometimes I think of our memories we made together. But at the same time, without the pain, and anger, I can see them(the memories) as the beautiful things they were.<P>I miss not having that now, I am even a little jealous--not of "them" only that I do not have a man to have a relationship with. I miss that. Especially since it has been over two years since I have had one. Having a marriage licence does not guarentee a relationship. But I value myself too high to take second best again. I am not young enough any more to think that the time left in life is not important. <P>When Life gives you another menu, you just make another choice and hope it is a good one!<P>Call me sometime. Ask if you've lost the number.<P>Beth

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Resilient:<BR><B>I guess I'm posting because I'm looking for some sort of validation that I was his wife. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi Jo,<P>I was new_beginning, and I remember you well. You were always one of my heros.<P>I understand what you mean, when you say the phrase above. <P>I am newly married, and my H and I talk about this very thing, since we both had a similiar situation with our ex-spouses. <P>I think it's especially important in long-term marriages, to feel that it was real, that the love was real, that the pains were real, that the relationship was real. <P>No matter what ever happens in life, we WERE married to someone we loved deeply at one time, and for most of us here (including me) right up until the very end, and beyond.<P>Know that you are being heard today -- and it's nice to see you posting.<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

Jo, I remember you from GQ. Thanks for starting this thread. I feel so much the way you do though I'm still pre-divorce. <P>Beth and Sheryl, Thanks so much for your thoughts. It really helps to hear from people who seem to have survived what feels like the worst experience of my life (and I had breast cancer: mastectomy, chemo, radiation, and reconstruction 3 years ago...).<P>My H also tells me he never loved me, though we were together for 19 years. He wants to be a teenager again and I want to grow up, like Wendy and Peter Pan... I always remember feeling so sad at the end of that movie - I'm talking about the play with Mary Martin, not the Disney movie, which probably dates me...<P>I still love my H and miss him, even though I realize now that I was creating a fantasy of what I thought we had and denying a lot of what was really going on.

Jo,<BR>God, I guess I am where you are right now. I would say that 85% of the time I'm ok but the other 15% of the time mostly nights after I go to bed I am nuts. I dream alot about my EX. Mostly now thought the dreams are about him telling me about OW ect. I try to think about all of our happy years together and to dwell on the fact that we did have happy years but to also try not to kid myself into thinking that it was all a fairy tale. We did have alot of problems from the start. Life does go on, it isn't easy but it will get better. <P>We were married for almost 17 years. Married Dec 29 1983<BR>Divorced Dec 11 2000. I was just 19 when we got married so basically I spent my whole adult life with him. So when you talk about being psychologically bonded I know how you feel. How do you go from being a mrs to a ms. How do they just move on like nothing happened. Like the last 17 years of their life was not important. <BR>I do know my EX is going through MLC and I hope that someday everything he did to all of us will come crashing down on him like a ton of bricks. I to feel the need to feel validated but I don't know how to get it and it is so frusterating. <BR>I KNOW I was a good wife and Mother to the kids. He will say that it was just that his wife wasn't exciting for him. <P>I have been working hard on me lately. Trying to do things I have always wanted to do. I love my kids and we have fun together. That is the only way I know how to move forward with my life. I know this journey will be long and hard but it is one I am forced to take so I guess its time for me to just see where the road takes me and not try to look back to much.<P>Jill

My Jo,<P>So good to see you writing again. It's hard to come back (I know, I forgot my password), but you are among good freinds here. <P>I, as the others, do understand what you're saying here. The WS not only rob us of our futures, they rob of us our pasts. This is beyond cruel, but I hope you can see it as justification from them honey, because they do have to wake up and look in their own mirrors every day somehow. They keep thinking that if they put enough spin on the past that they can believe there are reasons for all of this....they are wrong.<P>Jo, I wish I'd have known your divorce was final just a few days ago. You have been a few steps ahead of me during this whole time, and I have listened carefully about how you have felt. We Sagittarians think alike you know! I filed about 5 mos ago, and absolutley nothing has been accomplished except one stupid (and it was stupid) custody meeting thing. Steve has not done a thing, won't fill out a form, make a financial offer...nothing. Don't get me wrong, he does want the divorce, I think he is just waffling a bit due to financial stuff.<P>Jo, you were a wife, a good wife. You put up with more than any one would have ever asked. Biblically even, you had grounds to divorce him many years ago. He trashed it Jo, not you. You wanted to live the dream, he wanted to live his dream. Jo, there is someone out there, someday, that will see how wonderful you are. Don't shut yourself up in your house. <P>I miss you and Lora and Beth (if she's still talking to me ). And there are so many newbies here, and so many old friends too. I have been selfish by not taking the time to write (or RSVP...lora). I hope we can continue to help each other through this hon.<P>Keep writing hon. Miss you.<BR>Allison Jo

I wanted to add that the 3rd person has always been there in our relationship too. At first it was an ex-girlfriend who he got drunk with while I was at work, then a girl he worked with who spent the weekend (because she was friends with his son) and then 3 different women who work for us ending with OW. These are the ones I know about. I believed him that they were "just friends" but felt uncomfortable that he needed another woman's friendship while I stayed home or worked. Then he finally moved out with one...

Hi Jo!!<P>I, too struggled with this at times.. I was also married 17 yrs, though I did marry later than you. <P>Sometimes you have to surrender.......if you can get a copy of Oprah Magazine, June 01 issue, there is a great article on it. <P>We cannot change the past. We can only go on. And those feelings you are having are valid, worth working through, but you will need to move on. As time passes, I am finding it easier and easier, though I still struggle at times. <P>Take care, Jo, we are all here for you!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan

I am not divorced & hope we wont ever reach that point, but my H says hes leaving & I cant accept that. <P>Anyway, I happened to catch Oprah. She had a guy on there by the name of GARY ZUKAV. He has written books about accepting where you are in life now & not resisting the flow. The title is "THE SEAT OF THE SOUL". Mabye you can find it on Oprahs website. What this guy had to say was painful but very true. I was crying. An audience member was trying to get over a divorce from 8 yrs ago. An exercise he told her to work on was:<BR>for every time she found herself looking back on the marriage and saying "Yes, but . . ." to catch herself and change that to "Now what? . .". To acknowledge the emotions & how they make us feel & then let it go. To accept our intuition sometimes & not fight so hard. It might be worth looking into.<p>[This message has been edited by cantletgo (edited June 20, 2001).]

Good Morning All,<P>I fully intend to respond back to you all, I'm just so bloody busy at work. Ughhhh!<P>Thank you so much for remembering me, and thank you for you help too!<P>Best,<BR>Jo

Hi Jo,<P>I think what you are going through is normal. I still have a lot of the same feelings and its been almost 1.5 yrs since my divorce.<P>I went to our local community parade last night and felt like a third wheel because there were a lot of families there. Also because of my x's personality/work we didn;t have many other couple friends, so again I am a third wheel and sometimes feel out of place.<P>It just takes time i guess. You just have to keep busy with things you like and dwell. I catch myself doing that on business trips and it sucks.<P>I keep waiting for x to crash and burn so I can laugh in her face. I guess this too will pass.<P>Bob

Jo.<P>When ever you have the time to respond, we are here for ya girl! Take care, though we'd love to hear from ya! <P>Beth