I have a question(s) about using love as a manipulative tool. <P>When I was a little girl and got myself in trouble, I remember my father telling me why he was going to punish me and that even if he was angry with me, he still loved me. My mother was always somewhat aloof, but regardless, even when I screwed up, she never yelled at me, would just give me a stern look and then hug me. It was years before I could appreciate this and I consider myself lucky, because I know my xH always felt as though he had to earn his parent's love and in return treated me the same. I tell my children that I love them no matter what (doesn't mean I'll put up with their bull) even when I'm angry with them hoping this will offset any manipulative action on my xH's part. <P>My question is : How many of you have experienced being manipulated because you love someone and you are trying to please them? <BR>and How many of you have used your love to manipulate someone (i.e. withholding)? Be honest.<BR>

My question is : How many of you have experienced being manipulated because you love someone and you are trying to please them? and How many of you have used your love to manipulate someone (i.e.withholding)? Be honest.<P>I've been manipulated...stbxh still tries to manipulate..<BR>

The War of the Roses... TRose and Thorned Rose, one in the same... silly me didn't get it before! <duh><P>Okay, it's very late here and my H is working, so I'll take a stab at answering this...<P>My ex was a master manipulator who used guilt and pain as his weapons. The thought of him (pathetic, sad, suicidal) still brings me to tears -- and yet -- I remember, because I *have* to remember, that this is the man who pulled me around by my hair and slapped my hand away when I extended it to him, among his many small but meaningful abuses (and some not so small, but hey, I'm tired of recounting them and frankly, it's in the past).<P>I'm sure I manipulated too... although I wasn't trying to, and it isn't really my nature. I'm so "out there" and honest to a fault, that not much is left to the covert mind.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

No..actually...two different ppl..<P>My dad was also a master manipulator..made you feel as if you were never good enough...could never do enough to "earn" his love, never pretty, skinny, smart enough..<P>If we did something wrong..he pulled away..<BR>he wouldn't hug us wouldn't let us know that even though we messed up we were still okay..<BR>if we messed up we were stupid..and he made us feel that way...one of my brothers was not<BR>very athletic at all..our dad used to tease him because of it..called him names..didn't matter he was a straight A student..he wasn't both..my youngest brother was athletic..but wasn't the straight A student..wasn't good enough..my sister was a straight A student..<BR>and was athletic..but..she was over weight..so she wasn't good enough..I wasn't a straight A student..I played some sports..but I was too skinny..and stupid..<P>My mom..just wasn't good enough..too fat, to stupid..<P>he'd make you feel guilty if you didn't do what he wanted..or didn't want to do what he wanted..with him..there is a price tag on everything..even things that were supposed to be gifts..I bought you this...so you owe me this...I gave you this..so you need to do this for me..if I buy this for you what will I get??<P>And the thing I've come to understand...is I don't need to be good enough for him..sad thing is..my stbxh is much the same way..<P><p>[This message has been edited by ThornedRose (edited June 18, 2001).]

TRose,<P>it is funny how we marry similar to the traits we were brought up with we feel comfortable with the familiar that we associate with normal.<P>Yes, manipulative, MANIPULATIVE, <B> MANIPULATIVE </B><BR>Anger can be a tool for manipulation, as can ignoring or silence.<P>If you grew up with it, it is very difficult to see and not react the way they want you to. I stopped being manipulated, and this was not helpful to X, she lost alot of her powers in the past couple of years, but i did my share of passive agressive, because no other way would work, logic would not, treating her the same as me would not, so i just stonewalled, which 90% of the time leads to divorce, courtesy of Gottman.<P><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited June 18, 2001).]

Well, color me embarrassed again -- gee whiz -- sorry I get all confused these days. Please forgive me, both TRose and Thorned Rose.<P>Thorned, I guess you were QUOTING her then, not reasking the question. That's why I thought that.<P>Good question, as I answered above.

TRose,<P>it is funny how we marry similar to the traits we were brought up with we feel comfortable with the familiar that we associate with normal.<P>Yes, manipulative, MANIPULATIVE, <B> MANIPULATIVE </B><BR>Anger can be a tool for manipulation, as can ignoring or silence.<P>If you grew up with it, it is very difficult to see and not react the way they want you to. I stopped being manipulated, and this was not helpful to X, she lost alot of her powers in the past couple of years, but i did my share of passive agressive, because no other way would work, logic would not, treating her the same as me would not, so i just stonewalled, which 90% of the time leads to divorce, courtesy of Gottman.<P><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited June 18, 2001).]

<P>It's okay, no need to be embarassed...just thought I'd clarify is all...

I was never manipulated by my folks or my ex...<P>Being the good drug addict I am...I learned to be a master manipulator...<P>I am now trying to purge myself of this defect...<P>Bill

I must have been naive. I thought all parents gave unconditional love until I met W's parents. I was floored when MIL said her kids had earn love, it is not unconditional. Holy smokes what a comment considering her occupation (works w/people).<P>My parents loved me no matter what.

Thank you for your replies. I grew up like sourman. When I was nineteen the week I found out I was pregnant, I sat my parents down and told them. I figured that I was eventually going to show and since I couldn't see myself having an abortion, I might as well get it over it. I realize now that the only reason I was able to do that was because I knew that my parents would love me regardless. That is safety and comfort.<P>Why I married a man who was not like that, I'm not sure except that I guess I just didn't know him very well. Even though we've been divorced a year, I still remember the first time he threatened to leave me. We had two in diapers and I got down on my knees and begged him not to go. As soon as I did that, I hated myself and I hated him and our marriage went downhill from that. I suddenly realized that was his way of controlling me and from then on I pretty much shut myself away from him. <P>I tried to understand how someone could be so mean, but it was hard to grasp. Now I worry that my children will learn how to be that way too.<P>PS the name actually stands for tearose - I just happen to like them.