Well I have been a "silent" part of this website for a while, and this website has givin me alot of hope... but I still am not sure what to do... first off let me share "our story"<P>My W and I have been together for 7 years, been married 5 years this august. We have been having serious problems for a long time, I just did not realize it. About 3.5 years ago we lost our first baby, Trevor, to CDH, he only lived for about 4 hours after he was born. This was really hard and tough on both of us, we both had our seperate was of dealing with it, my W wanted to talk about it, I did not, because for me it was way to painfull to talk about. I think that is when the wall really started to grow by leaps and bounds. I have done basically everything wrong in the way I treated our marriage, my wife does not work, and my opinion was " well I am the one that makes the money, it is my decision what I spend it on " We both have been faithfull, but as we grew apart, I felt like that we were living as roommates. There has been no romance or intimacy in our relationship for years, and rather than look at how we got there, or why... I blamed her. She has been a giver in the relationship for a long time, I have happily been the taker, never giving anything back. My wife told me a little over a month ago that she did not know if she loved me any more, and did not think that she could be happy with me.... man what I shock, at first I was mad, then I really started thinking, and reading information, to try and help me understand how we got to where we are. I have realized that I am the main reason we are where we are, and I am trying very hard to change, I am willing to do whatever I have to in order to save our marriage, but she is in withdrawl.... We have a beautiful daughter now that just turned 2, that is everything to my wife. In some ways I have felt that after losing our son, then having our daughter, I have been the third wheel in the relationship. Our daughter is everything to my wife.. she is her whole life, and I understand that, but at times it seems that there is no room in her life for me.... that is neither here nor there at this point, because I love both of them so much, and I can't stand the thought of losing them. For a long time my wife has not had any sexual drive, and right now what she is telling me is that she wonders if she was with someone else "could she connect with them?" which is my worst fear. <P>She grew up in a broken home, as did I but she became very attached to one of her moms bf's (they were together for 8 years after her dad left at age 5). Anyways he walked out, and never came back... and that hurt her, she does not want to put our daughter through that. She has a 9th grade education, and is terrified of the thought of being on her own, but she does not think that she ever can be happy with me. At this point she told me that, even if I changed and did everything she wanted, she still probably wouldn't be happy. This is destroying her inside, emotionally and physically, and has been very hard on me, not only what I am going through but to see her so unhappy. <P>I have had a major wake up call.... I have been emotionally abusive... I never once ment to hurt her, and at the time I did not realize the effect of my selfish demands, and disrespectful judgements had on her. She is a very quite person that holds everything inside... I can't help but feel that if she would have told me along time ago, or I would have pulled my head out sooner, we would not be where we are today....<P>At this point all the efforts I am making to show her how important she is to me, how much I love her, and how badly I want this work out, just is pushing her farther away. She says that when I am gone she feels better, no stress, and when I am around she goes downhill, and all the efforts I am making are just smothering her...<P>I feel that it is very important to show her how much I love her, and how important she is to me.... but it is very hard, when there is nothing in return. She has told me that she feels, numb... dead inside, and that she does not know what she wants... <P>I am very glad I found this site, and all the great info on it. I feel that it is talking directly to me, and this situation. We have been to counsiling a couple of times and my W is going to start going by herself, at the counslers request, to help her learn how to deal with things rather than keeping them bottled up, and pushing them deep down.... and we are going to continue with our counsiling<P>I know that I can make her happy and we can have the relationship that we once had... if she will open up a little and give me another honest chance...<P>If anyone has any idea's/input for me and what to do please let me know... <P>thanks<BR>Brad<P><p>[This message has been edited by bcj001 (edited June 18, 2001).]

Brad<P>I can sympathise with you and how your wife was feeling. it hit rather home because I feel that mu h and I had a lot of those feelings too. I tried so hard to "fix" our marriage, but he just ran away harder, and drank more. When I found out about his affair, he told me he loved her. That he had been having heart pains for a long time, emotional ones. Now he was happy, and "it felt so good!" Yea, thanks, H.<P>My life dropped out from under me.<P>Read some of the Harley material. Post also in general general questions, you will get more responses there. The reading is the most important thing, then getting counselling. Don't let her give up with out doing something. Read together "His needs, Her Needs." Try some of the things. <P>Talk about your lost child. You shut her out when she needed you most, and she needs to trust you again. She needs to feel that you are there for her emotionally. That was the starting point of this, I think. Share your fears, your ideas and your love.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bcj001:<BR><B>At this point all the efforts I am making to show her how important she is to me, how much I love her, and how badly I want this work out, just is pushing her farther away. She says that when I am gone she feels better, no stress, and when I am around she goes downhill, and all the efforts I am making are just smothering her...</B><P>This happened to me too, right after she told me about her EA. Listen to her. Plan A described elsewhere is not about treating her like a queen, it's about treating her with respect, and treating yourself to a good life, becoming a happy person with or without her. Whenever you feel depressed, do something without her that makes you feel good, maybe something you've never done before. I took up new hobbies that truly made me feel wonderful. At the time, my X was feeling terrible while my spirits were coming up.<P>As far as treating her with respect, don't expect <I>anything</I> in return from her; you'd be very lucky to. Be very aware of her emotional needs. Be very aware not of what you feel is a disrespectful judgement towards her, but what she would interpret as a disrespectful judgement. That can be very difficult, so don't take it lightly. Don't disguise disrespectful judgements as honesty.<P>Don't be surprised by change in her, both for the worst and the best. Something that might not upset her this week might make her blow up next week. If she blows up at you, listen listen listen. When she's done, acknowledge her need to blow up.<P>Strength to you. It doesn't sound like she's beyond your reach since she's participating in counseling, and you're very lucky for that. But she's riding the edge of a knife and it would be so easy for her to fall on the other side. Might want to try the Harley's too if you can afford it.

well it has been a while since the first post... I have been here "lurking around" off and on looking for inspiration/insight when I needed it <P>It has been a interesting time since the last post.. a lot has happened, both good and bad.<P>Shortly after the last post was made I ended up moving out of the house we lived in ( it was right behind the in-laws house, and even though I get along with them great and they were on my side in all of this.... well it was a very uncofortable situation..... she would tell me she wanted to make it work but be there all the time.....) long story short about the moving thing..... <P>anyways we seperated for about a month, the whole time I was still trying to make it work, and looking into myself, my actions, my behaviors that contributed to where our marriage had ended up. I realized alot about my self, and the mistakes I made. Since we had started going out my wife was never a drinker or partier, but while we were seperated she started drinking, I guess as a way to get her mind off of what was going on. One minute she would be nice to me, the next... woa.. watch out..<P>After about a month of this I was ready to call it quits.. I could not go on the way things were going. I lost over 40lbs in a month and a half, and was a wreck. So I sat down with her one day and told her either we were going to try and make this work (empisis on WE) or We were going to move on with our lives.... I told her that I would always love her, and that I did not want it to be over but at this point I would rather accept the fact that "she did not want to be with me" and move on with my life (as best I could) then for things to keep going the way they were. She really didn't say a whole lot at that time, but a couple of day later she came to me and said that she wanted to make it work, and that she realized that she did love me... and wanted to move back in with me. I was so frazzeled by this point, and really scared of things being like they were the last time she "wanted to make it work" I wrote here this letter.<P>(wife)<BR> I know most of the time when we talk, it seems that I say things wrong, or they are taken wrong, so that is why I am writing this letter. I want to be there when you read this so that we can talk about what I am about to write.<P>A lot of time has passed since we separated, it has been close to the hardest thing that I have ever been through in my whole life. In my efforts to deal with the fact that things were not going to work out, I have cut a lot of the emotional ties that I had to the relationship. As I have told you many times, I love you, and probably always will. You have been the best thing that has ever happened to me, you have been a wonderful part of my life, and have gave me the best gift I have ever had you, and Makenzie . I want you to know that I do want things to work out, but I want you to know how I feel about this situation.<P>It is very hard for me to be alone, but I would rather be alone then to have our relationship be like it has been prior to you leaving, and I think that we both agree on that. I do not want to settle for that, and I don’t want you to either. I believe in happy relationships, and that there is no such thing as a perfect one, it takes a lot of work to have a happy one, but I am willing to try and make it work, but I won’t put myself in the position of being the only one trying. We once had a happy relationship and I think that we can have again. I am not saying that you are not trying, but every time that I reach out to take your hand, or touch you on the shoulder, and you pull away, it makes me feel like that. I know that it is going to take time, and a lot of hard work for us to become a “team” again. I do not expect things to “go back to perfect” or for things to be like nothing happened right away. We have a lot of issues to overcome if we even stand a chance. Some of the biggest issues I feel like we have are Trust, Communication, Lack of Similar Interests, and the Wall that is between Us. For this to work we are going to have to work together, and not against each other on each one of these issues.<P>I want to make sure that you are wanting to make this work for the right reasons. I want to make sure that you are doing this because you feel that there is something worth salvaging between us, and that you want to be with me, and for us to be a family, and not for any other reason. The reason I have been somewhat hesitant about you moving in, is because if you are doing this for the wrong reasons, or are not totally committed to trying 100% to make this work, then it won’t work, and that will be even harder on You, Me, and Makenzie. I do not want to do anything that will make this any harder than it already has been all of us. <P>As I stated already, I do want this to work, but I know that if we both don’t give it 100% then it will not work, and we will be in the same situation 1 month, 6 months, or a year down the road when we have had enough again. I have tried to be honest and not play any games with you, I know at times I would have been a lot better shutting up, and seeing how things turn out, but at this point in the relationship, I can not do that. Basically this is what I expect out of you, AND MYSELF in this relationship. <BR>1. Honesty ( If I do something that you like/don’t like, let me know even if it is a couple of days later, do not bottle things up inside ) <BR>2. Open communication ( not afraid to say something to the other person about what you feel )<BR>3. Respect ( respect how the other person feels, and show it in your actions )<BR>4. To try very hard to find something that we can do together, and as a family that we all enjoy ( and not be afraid to try something new )<BR>5. Be open minded ( do not assume the worst in what the other is doing, give them a chance, and open you heart to there actions )<BR>6. Love ( I know that this is going to take time, but to let the other person know how much they mean to you, and not be afraid to show it)<BR>I know that these things are not going to happen overnight, but if we work together on them ONE at a time, I think we could have a great marriage. I truly hope you read this the way it is meant, as a letter I am writing to let you know how I feel, and what I am thinking. In a lot of ways I am scared of trying to make this work, because I know the “roller coaster” that I have been on the last month, and I do not want to go through that again, but I am willing to give it my all, and try and make this work. <P>At this point, on my part, and your part, ACTIONS are going to speak a lot louder than words. I love you (wife), and care a lot about what happens in our relationship, I would love for this to work out, but I will not put myself back into a situation where I am the only one that is trying. We have to meet in the middle 50/50 if this is going to work.<P> I hope that you are willing to talk to me about this, <P><BR>Love <BR> Brad<P>Anyways we had some very long and positive talks and she has since moved in (almost a month ago) Things have been very interesting since we have "got back together"<P>As far as where we stand right now... we talk more than we have in probably the last 3 years of our marriage, we do alot better job at telling the other person how they feel and why.... but for me this is kind of frustrating..<P>I know that things do not change over night, and that we still have a ton of work to do, we are off to a great start, but what I find myself doing (which I try very hard not to but... well I am not perfect myself) is that when she gives a inch I try and take a mile. Alot of this has to do with my need for affection and SF. I do not know for a fact, but I feel that she was not faithful while we were seperated ( after all in her mind it was over ) if not a PA then a EA. <P>Befor all of this started I trusted her 110% never a doubt, and I take our vows very seriously. That trust is not there any more. She has swore up and down that she did not cheat but I feel that she would never tell me if she did.... anyways that is one of my hangups that I am dealing with. Basically it came down to a talk we had after I made a smartas* comment about it.... she said that it would never work if we didnt' trust each other.... I told her taht I agreed, and that I would give her 100% of my trust again (or try to) and forgive/try to forget... but that if I found out she lied to me about anything else that would be it... I told her I thought that was kinda harsh, but there had to be some respondsibility..... she thought that it was fair, and agreed.<P>I am working very hard at becoming a better person and trying to meet her EA's, and in alot of area's she is doing the same. What I am afraid of is that she will start to get comfortable/settle with things where they are and not try as hard as possible.... <P><BR>hehe sorry for such a long post I know that it is late and I am rambling.. I hope that some of this makes since... <P>I would like opinions if you don't mind <P><BR>Brad<BR>

Brad,<P>WOW, I was on my way to bed and just happened to click on your quote before I clicked off. i would just like to say I think you are on the right track and I think you and your wife may just make it. <P>A couple of pieces of advice would be to put the past in the past. Whatever she may or may not have done. Try to put it behind you and don't let it eat you up inside. Pretend your marriage is just starting, because in essence, it is. Also, continue to grow in your marriage. Also seek for a better, more perfect marriage. I don't know if you know your bible but in the new testament there is a parable about seeds being sewn. This reminds me of marriages. It's been a while since I read it, so I don't remember the whole parable and I am too tired to look it up, but it is something like this, some seeds fell on really thorny ground and didn't grow because the seeds were choked by the thorns, some fell on poor soil and tried to grow but then didn't get the nutritian (sp? and too tired to look it up) and water they needed. Then there were the seeds that fell on thick, rich soil, they grew and were healthy and productive. This is like marriages. There are some marriages that have poor foundations from day one and don't stand a chance, others try to grow and they start out pretty good but don't quite make it, and then there are the marriages that have rich soil, they are fed and watered and have everything they need. These are the ones that succeed. Your marriage sounds like you may have just replanted those seeds in thicker richer soil and both of you are watering these every day.<P>Just from your letter I admire you tremendously. If other spouses would see what you see there would be so few divorces out there. <P>Take care and I would love it if you keep me posted.<P>ANNA<BR>

Anna <P>Thank you so much for your reply <P>I am familar with the parable you referred too, and it thanks for the reminder, I see our marriage heading in the right direction, but at times it is soo much work.<P>We are getting along great for the most part until I let my mouth get in the way.... or other parts of me take over my thinking ...<P>I am trying hard to leave the past in the past, but I think because of the doubt I have it makes me want/need the attention, closeness all the more. Right now things are great at "arms length".... which frustrates me to no end. I can do ok for a couple of days/week without even trying to be close and we get along great, then I try and be close, or she starts giving me small amounts of attention, then I try and take a mile... which is the worst thing I could do... becuase then it seems like the wall goes right back... you know the saying " take 2 steps forward... 4 steps back...." well that is what it seems like. It is so hard to be around my wife (who is very beautiful) and not want to be close to her. The last couple of years prior to our seperation, our sex life was well ... to put it mildly.. like duty sex for her... after our daughter was born there was no intimacy/desire there on her part. Is it all because of our daughter... no... but I think that was a safe ruitine for my wife... since we were getting farther and farther apart... not sure, but I do know that is not want I want at all. I want to be with someone that wants to be with me... not "hurry up and get it over with so I can go to sleep"...... I want someone who will enjoy/allow themselves to enjoy it with me. <P><BR>hurmm hehe I am getting flustered again just talking about this. I know that I need to be patient and try hard to fullfill her EA's, but at the same point part of me has been a taker in the relationship for so long it is a hard habit to break.... oh well something I need to continue to work on...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bcj001:<BR>[B]Anna <P>Thank you so much for your reply <P>You are very welcome and good luck with everything in your life. BTW I was so touched by how your email to your wife I am recommending another person on here read this.<P>ANNA