We participated in a HNHN class a year ago and I feel it actually made things worse for me. HNHN got my hopes up that things were going to be the way I'd hoped they'd be. Now I understand that my H just wants taken care of as his mother took care of him. (His words.) He is a nice man, but feels that he should have no responsibility outside of his work. Our class instructors even pulled me off to the side and said that H was at a teenage emotional level and that I should only treat him as such. That I was expecting too much out of him, for now. (I also have a lot of issues that I am working on. I am not blaming all of the problems on H.)<P>Does anyone else feel incredibly lonely in their marriage?? It is an almost overwhelming feeling. Like a ton of bricks on my chest. We are very involved in church, and put on a great front, so that only a few close friends know the truth. I'm afraid I'll dishonor H if I talk about our marriage without him present, but I have to hear from someone. What do you do when you feel this lonely? H and I are miles apart and I'm afraid I'm losing the desire to change the course. It's becoming easier to withdraw than fight for improvement.<P>But we have 2 children. I feel the marriage they see from us will guide them when they are old enough to marry. I owe it to them to give them a solid family.<P>I'm rambling and I'm sorry. Please reply and let me know if this lonliness is normal. (No, I am not clinically depressed, but am depressed about our marriage.)<BR>Karen

Karen,<BR> Maybe you could fill in a little more details for us. What does you H do or not do that causes you to feel lonely, and what are some of your issues? <BR> I do feel very lonely in my marriage, too. And to top this, we have also been battling a large variety of problems. I mean, in our marriage, we do just about every love buster there is. I have been trying to stop on my end and I have been applying Dr. Harley's basic concepts to our marriage. I have even tried to get my H to listen to them. But it just goes in one ear and out the other. The ONLY time it works, is when I play the role of the "giver" (as in reference to Dr. Harley's rules of negotiation) and then it only gets the result of my H acting like a civil human being, which he should try to be anyways- and it only works for a short period time. But my H will NEVER reciprocate. Like you, I don't want to dihonor my H, but to me, he is very immature and selfish emotionally.<BR> I feel very lonely in that I just cant seem to "reach" him, and I feel like I am the only one that is trying. If he could have it his way, my H would come and go as he pleases, DO as he pleases, and basically lead his own life. His job has something to do with this. He works for the RR, and therefore, it requires hime to be away from home. I tallied it up once, and I figured him to be at home a total of 36-48 hours a WEEK and of that time he HAS to have rest. He is used to doing his own thing. But back to the subject- with his job, he is gone so much, that he has just adjusted himself to doing everything on his own, and is not used to the everyday ins and outs of a marriage. Because of his job, we rarely do ANYTHING together, like eat sleep, etc. His job creates so much physical distance between us that it also creates emotional distance. We just dont do enough together, to let our marriage grow. Couple that with the fact that he is grumpy and selfish, (probably do partly to lack of sleep and poor hours at work) and we have a recipe for disaster. <BR> I truly do know how you feel being together, but feeling alone.<BR> Hope to hear more from you, and good luck.<BR> What is HNHN?

Karen:<P>You're not crazy for feeling this way. Your husband isn't meeting important needs. And if that continues, your lonliness will get worse. You'll be vulnerable to having an affair.<P>I would suggest that you both start counseling. I've used the MarriageBuilders phone counseling with Steve Harley and it was great. If your husband won't do it, you should still pursue it. Your husband needs to learn new behaviors to make your marriage successful. These aren't hard to learn: even a teenager can do them. The marriage may be good for him right now (you're taking care of him), but with some effort on both your parts, it could be terrific! Fantastic! And it's really good that you're still "early" in the process and recognize that you need help now. I recognized this when my wife had an affair, and the pain that we both went through over the past two years could have been avoided if we had done something earlier.<P>You are absolutely correct that your children will learn how to behave in a marriage by how they see your marriage is. It's a great motivator to make the change.<P>Again, I'd suggest that you give Steve a call and set up a plan for counseling. You might be able to tackle this as a "Do it yourself" project, but if your husband is pretty unresponsive, you probably need the help of a professional counselor. Good luck.

June31 and K: Thank you sooo much for your reply!! It helps just to be able to say (type) some things and get them off my chest!! Today was a much better day!<P>HNHN is my slang for the His Needs, Her Needs class that utilizes Harley's materials of the same title.<P>Since you asked, you get the long version of the story (aren't you lucky?!). Both of my parents are alcoholics and my mother is bi-polar and refuses to take her medication. (This is why I know I am not depressed. BP can be genetic and I keep a close eye for symptoms.) Consequently, I had no role models for marriage. Prior to meeting John, I had lower than low self esteem and had just been raped. John was very nice, and non-threatening. Part of me was grateful that someone was giving me attention. The other half married him so I wouldn't have to go back home. I assumed he was avoiding sex to give me time to heal from the rape emotionally. I did not realize that he had no desire for sex, because at the time I didn't either.<P>I married for all the wrong reasons, too young, and too soon. However, as I have worked on my self esteem and other things; I am no longer satisfied with my marriage being just a safe port in a storm. This is my fault. John is no different that the day we met. I am the one whose changes have rocked the boat. For this I am sorry. I am not the person he chose.<P>I am afraid to say too much about John because I don't want to dishonor him. I think I am safe in telling you the things he has told me himself. I think it's ok to tell you my feelings as this is a reflection of me, not of John. <P>He also has a low self-esteem. He is afraid of failure, therefore he does not try. He has difficulty taking responsibility at work and wants his home to be a place of total relaxation. I feel very hurt by this. He is one of the area's best paramedics and had been recognized numerous times for his good work. However at home, he relies on me to know when the children need medication, the amount, etc. He has almost OD'd both children because he "forgot" to read the label. I am hurt that he can and desires to give good care to others, but won't do the same for his family.<P>John listened attentively in class to everything I and others had to say. His responses were everything I'd hoped I'd hear. We both agreed to change some things. He even initiated many statements of changes he'd like to make. For whatever reason, he says he "forgets" to do them. I resent that and feel lied to. I almost wish he'd never promised those things in the first place.<P>I have to be the one in total charge, all of the time. I do (or schedule) all the housework, car maintainence, home maintainence, etc. John is willing to help out, if I ask. But, if I don't ask--it doesn't get done. When I ask, he agrees readily and usually starts the task. Most tasks do not get finished. He has said this is because he doesn't feel responsible for them. No, I do NOT finish them for him and never have.<P>I agree we need counseling, but John won't go. The first issue is the cost. I quit work to devote more time to the family. I also quit so that I wouldn't have financial independence. If I had a full-time job, I'm afraid I would move out. The second issue is with John. He has a master's degree in counseling and did not like the field. (Too long a story for now.) So, he doesn't respect counselors. He won't go to our or community ministers because he doesn't want our problems known. <P>Here's where I am today. I cannot change John. He is a child of God. I will pray for John and I will try not to hurt him. I can change the way I feel. I will meet my own needs and not wait around hoping for John to do it (then get mad when he doesn't, etc.). (No, I am NOT looking for someone else to meet my needs.)<P>What I need help with: Sometimes I am afraid I don't like John. I care for him and don't want to see him hurt. But, his dependence is very unattractive to me. What do I do about that? I don't like that trait or how it affects me; and it is unlikely to change. I can't change him or expect him to change, so what can I do??? I will try to focus on the things that I do find attractive. Do you have any other ideas?<P>This is getting long, so I will close and await your reply. I am very appreciative of the time, effort, and caring you have shown!! Just knowing that there is someone out there to listen, and who understands some of my feelings is wonderful. You have lightened that brick on my chest considerably!! As a gesture of hope, I discussed with John and scheduled a family vacation to the beach (a first!!) Thank you for listening and helping!! Karen

Karen,<BR> After reading your second post, I think that you have sort of reached a road block. It sounds like you have done just about everthing you could, and your H is having a hard time with following through. It is as if you are "getting the program," but your H just isn't. Maybe you could try to increase his motivation a little by telling him that you know that he DOES know the principles of Dr. Harley's concepts, but you don't feel that he is applying them. Let him know that you have been holding up to your end of the "bargain" but you feel that he isn't holding up to his. Impress upon him that you no longer choose to wait for results from him. And I would suggest (as K did) that you seek out Dr. Harley, or another councelor and go yourself. Let him know that you no longer choose to wait around for him to hold up to his end of the bargain, and that you need to start seeing some changes, so you are going to take the first step. And you would like him to join you if he chooses, when he feels comfortable to do so. <BR> I feel that he leaves you no other choice. This would probably work wonders for you, and help you to learn how to deal with the feelings of resentment for his being too dependent on you for every little thing. I don't know, but I do have a feeling that once he sees the changes in you, maybe it will prompt him to follow through on some changes himself. And at the very least he WILL know that you are serious, and you don't plan on giving up easily. <BR> As for the cost of counceling, - does your H have insurance that would cover it? Or sometimes, employers have an "Employee's Assistance Program" that will pay for a certain amount of visits to a councelor. <BR> This is about the best advice I have for you. Good luck, and keep praying that God will put the desire in your H to change.

Thank you for your kind response! I have already scheduled an appointment with our minister. I know it is not the best option, but it is the one that is available today. <P>You are right about the roadblock. It's like a brick wall. Thank you for understanding!! Karen