Friend,<BR>you didn't answer to my last letters, I am worried what is going on with you and sons?<BR>My mother of 76 broke her leg yesterday, (and she has both hip implants from long ago) so like addition I have to work about my parents and their home+my YD and our home - while my xH is buying yachts, Mercedes, leather furniture....car for his girlfriend I have another problem to solve, waiting for July 4th to finish the marriage. i hope you are better.<BR>Are there any chances for job?<BR>Wish you best<BR>D

I am so sorry! I knew that I had gotten into a thread, and had not visited it recentlty, I apologize.<P>We have joint custody, and I have a $91 a week child support bill, which pays for the 1 bedroom love shack that my kids just LOVE going to. There is a rather long post on waiting_for_her...page 5 that explains it at length.<P>Sons are 17, 15, 13, and 6, and yes, she does it because she feels I did it to her. The only problem is that I wasn't sleeping with someone else, I never divorced her, and I never destroyed ANYONE'S life to my knowledge. About the 'never loved you', Dr. James Dobson has a "love Must Be Tough" tape set that my neighbor lent me. On that tape, he discusses the 'victim' (i.e. You, and me, and everyone else here.), and he gives 4 things that the 'perp' (!) does to assuage guilt, one of which is to invalidate the ENTIRE relationship. When it is 18 years, that's a boatload of denial there, don't you think? What does that say to the children? They feel it invalidates their entire existence, that's all. Not much, there. No, the fog does not allow them to see that...it is still all our fault, they will never take up that cross in their present state in mind/soul. Another thing is that they will claim to have peace, and have God's blessing, which she does to the point of seeming like she is trying to sell herself on this idea. Does your STBX H's eyes dart about when he makes this comment? They are runnning scared internally from the guilt, and the fact that there is no truth, or integrity in their lives. The only truth is the hurt that they propogate, and they cannot, and will not accept any responsibility for any of it. My XW's apology was, 'I wasn't like this before I met you.' Well, no $#!t, Sherlock, why would I have married you if you were unapproachable, selfish, and immoral? Honestly, if she could hear herself talk, she'd be appalled. I know her betterthan she does. There is no integrity there right now.<P>See, I told you OD would call! Hey, MOM...guess what? That is agape love, kids don't arbitrarily take ot away for good...it just doesn't happen. I think that when we share genetic material with others, it gives us an advantage (that we should never press, obviously) in these matters. I told my sons that their mother would never withdraw her love and acceptance of them like she did me, that is a legitimate concern that they have, and even she should be able to see that. She does expect them to accept her PA with the OM, and that is a mistake. The D is not even a month old yet...please! That is not realistic, she is not that stupid, either, although now she has tipped her hand with respect to the fact that she is an adulterer. Yes, that inspires respect from the kids, now, doesn't it?<P>I agree with you, and thanks for telling me what the good doctor says. I can't afford him now, but I read the books when I can. (You know, you have to be able to cry, and be alone, and that is nearly impossible for me these days.)<P>Your OD certainly doesn't need anymore stress, that is for sure. I wish her the best in the finals, too.<P>Not being religious doesn't change the way things are. Even if you were so scientific that you viewed human interaction as physics, none of this meets the criteria of feasiblilty/reasonablilty/acceptability. Nature abhors a vacuum, the laws of inertia, just about EVERYTHING that we have come up with in every arena of life indicates that the ultimate voaction is STILL marriage/parenthood, and there are rules to that, regardless of what authority you take as their source. When you try to create a space in this universe where you are not accountable, responsible, etc., you create turbulence in the natural currents of human interaction. Things don't work, the universe has no meaning, and you spend your time trying to justify things, fix things. This is our side. They spend all of their time denying the consequences, and taking all they can get. WE ARE THE REASON FOR THEIR FAILURE. Everything HAS to prove that to them, otherwise...(That's the day you and I should be granted the wish of being a fly on the wall.) Well, the whole thing hinges on that day for us, doesn't it? I have ceased to count on it, but I still implore God to make it so. Odd, that, but I am reconciled that that is where it stands for me now.<P>I am interested to know more about your career, if you don't mind. I have always regretted not moving in circles with more intellectual people. Don't get me wrong, I love my friends, but I am constantly studying, and learning new things, and some people are offended and intimidated about this. I am 38 years old, and I have a (n alcoholic) friend who STILL call me 'Mr. Smarty Pants', is that not unreal? I should let his drunken ramblings run their course, but it still makes me feel small. I get told by everyone else that they appreciate that about me, and that I don't ever make it an issue, but I still hurt when someone acts like that. I had wanted to share these things with my XW for years, but she always begged off. These things aren't attractive to her, yet she has always said that my intelligence and humor were what she loved most about me. Weird, and par for the course, I suppose. I really want to pursue it with full-force. I am anxious to know how smart I can be. I really am. I am ready to do big things in my life, Lord knows I'm not 'encumbered' by my marriage anymore, or am I? Confusing. Mr. Smarty Pants has no answer for that one, I'm afraid! <P>Yes, Monday went well minus the blowout detailed in my thread. I do miss the boys (17 year old doesn't stay with her too much, so he is here still.) like a lung at this point, but they are only a block away. Just as soon as she takes off to go do her thing, they will walk up the hill where they (want to) belong, so I am not worried about how they feel about me, just how they feel about her, but what can I do, other than explain that she is in a bad place, not a bad person. I have to tell myself that about a million times a day, however.<P>You know, those depths of despair are tough D, and when I am there, it IS all my fault, and I have no power to change it...BUT, the truth is that, regardless of how you view its authority, there is no integrity to these people, and THEY WILL answer to it some day, whether they do the right thing then, or not. You are being wronged, but the laws of balance in the universe demand that you not react in the same manner. You must have enough integrity to make up for HIS LACK OF INTEGRITY. That is what the situation with your OD is telling you. Its not that you are incomplete as a mother, its that you need to make up for his not being a proper father. (No, I mean a Father that is married to, and faithful to HER MOTHER, get it?) You must provide enough integrity to go ALL AROUND NOW. My count puts that at:<BR> YOU<BR> YD<BR> OD<BR> STBX H<BR>That's a lot of integrity, ma'am. I am sure that you've got it, just don't be so stingy with it. Its easy to see how that is not doable...I mean look at your life for a second, and you will see that NOONE is providing for your basic ENs now, and that makes you ill-equipped to succeed. That is exactly why you must. There is some cheese in here somewhere, I'll give you a shout when I find it, and we can share it then, okay? LOL <P>Look for, and find the strength to do this. I use my relationship with God, and ask for His strength, Grace, and blessing. You can do the same, but realize that all God is is our collective subconscious, and that marriage is how we complete ourselves, regardless of what the codependent movement says about that. So, you can be secular about it, and it STILL makes sense. Take God out of it, and it still has authority over individual needs in spades.<P>Take care D...of you, and your girls. I wait for news from you, and I have put your thread in my list at the top. Sorry again, there's nothing like feeling that you are being ignored. I don't like it any more than you do. 'Nuff said. Talk to you later. Have a GREAT DAY!<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited June 19, 2001).]

^ My turn! Throw me a bone b&d!

<BR>Please, do not think that's on purpose.<BR>I mentioned to you that I have PC only at the office and yesterday we had a lot of students on exam (I work on the Faculty as AssProf) so I had not enough time,.<BR>I'll start now when I arrived in the office and till the end of the work day I hope I'll finish. Tomorrow is a holiday here so we do not come to office till Monday - do not be surprised if I'll not see your answer till then.<BR>That's for start.<BR>I was absolutely delighted when I saw your letter, cause it means a lot to me to communicate with someone who understands the situation. You know I am borning to a lot of friends, cause this agony lasts for almost two xears and they expect from me to be calm and learn to live like that ("you are not the first nor the last person who is in such situation and all survive with no such histeryc turmoils, he could leave you without apartment, you have a job....")<P>Cause I am not perfect in english please what is "bedroom love shack" <P>I can't get this Dobson's book what is frequently mentioned on Forum cause I live in European small country.<BR>What are three other things he mentions?<BR>We are even longer together: married 1982 +3 yrs before<BR>Yes, I agree alot of things to diminish a lot of denial<BR>Dr Hurley warned me that both of my girls especially OD will (and are now) accept the model of a marriage with unapropriate values, that is normal to use someone and then abandon, to be cruel, to find a younger lover when a wife is getting old....and that she will probably have a lot of problems in HER marriage cause she will live in copnstant fear of what might happen to her (like to me) and maybe even she would be the one to brake the relationship.<P>My exH didn't have appologizes at all only that our marriage was not good for more then 10 years "everyone saw that and asked him how he could live with such a woman" and I that I was not willing sex as often as he did. <P>The most painful was the sentence: "I don't care for you, didn't ever love you, I can't stay with you neither for the benefit of the kids, I only want to please myself now, I am the only one important"<P>My OD called me only cause she wanted some things to do for her, such things what her father does not want to do ("has not enough time" " he's bussinessman " and I am lasy proffessor don't work only few lecturers....)<BR>When she calls these days only asks if I did something for her, not a word about exams or thanks for good wishes for exam or asking a question about sister..<P><BR>HE does expect them to accept him living with the OW for 8 months now and we are not even divorced + she lives with them and she is satisfied with OW and her behaviour (not employed but every morning till he comes from work she is not at home, she does nothing about the house:cooking, cleaning, ironing...they now have a housemade to do these things, while I was there I was taking care of him, 2 kids, 3 floor house, garden, working 8 hours and living 10 miles from work!!!!)<P><BR>I am not sure if there will ever come a day when he would get out of the fog, see what he had done and maybe take some consequences, I don't want him ever to suffer like me but deep inside I'd like to at least see what he did to me and YD and I truly hope one day he'd like to start again with me, the woman who helped him to have what he has now to be what he is now, mother of his first two kids....I can't simply believe that he never loved me and that he feeled he was forced to marry with pregnancy-we were both 23 at that time and we agreed BOTH to stop with pills.<P>I am 43, MD, PhD, AssProff at Medical Faculty and I am specialist of medical microbiology, and of course mother of two (one) daughters.<P>But I was always been told, even from my parents, that HE is a successful man, I have to support him, HE succede, cause I earn less money and he made a large company, the largest and the best in our County, my salary was like a pocket money and we lived from his money and built a house from HIS money, bought Mercedes and Golf, and Fiat ....from HIS money, now he is going to buy Bayliner glisser ( so much money I'd never earn neot in 30 years.<P> I'm not 'encumbered' by my marriage anymore, or am I? I think you are like I am also, we can not forget so easylike your w and my H can. Whatever we say we still think too much about exs<P>Like to you, and to me the worst days are when YD is with him and I stay alone, and that's the main reason why I exploded (it's not of course an excuse, i should be used to such days)<BR>THEY WILL answer to it some day, whether they do the right thing then, or not.<BR>I stop to believe in that . Like the OW said on Sun to me : "IF God punishes persons like me 1/2 of our city would be punished- you stupid you live in the wrong half of the city who believes in love" He of course didn't hear that and he'd never believe it to me that she not with one word mentioned LOVE for him, only that she could have anyone she wanted. Great reason for ruining someone's marriage and kids?????<BR>But when she is talking with OD she claims she didn't ever want to brake the marriage but "it happened" , my H forced her<P> You must have enough integrity to make up for HIS LACK OF INTEGRITY. I am not sure if I have it.<P>There is some cheese in here somewhere, I'll give you a shout when I find it, and we can share it then, okay? LOL -----please do that!!!!<P>Thanks for good wishes and I wish you the same.<BR>I have to go now but I must come tomorrow to the office so if you answer i'll read it.<BR>Best to you Thanks for care<BR>D<P>

D,<BR> You wrote:<BR> "My exH didn't have appologizes at all only that our marriage was not good for more then 10 years "everyone saw that and asked him how he could live with such a woman""<P> Please. Then he is a fool, blind, or a masochist. Ignore that stuff as much as you can. Even if it were true, that is the past, and one of the other things these aliens do is revisionist history...they rewrite it, making themselves the martyr. It is ALL your fault to him now. Whatever, get over yourself already guy!<P>You wrote:<BR> and I that I was not willing sex as often as he did." <BR> Now, he is whining. I'm sure there were reasons for that, too. Did you feel close to him? Probably not. Women need a more intimate connection in order to want sex. You see, you used the word willing, and I (now) know that English is your second language, but 'willing' implies something other than 'wanting'. He knows this. His OW doesn't require that, that is what she ws really telling you. Trust me, he WILL tire of that. So, he gets sex now 'on demand'. Good for him. How empty is that? <P>You wrote:<BR>The most painful was the sentence: "I don't care for you, didn't ever love you, I can't stay with you neither for the benefit of the kids, I only want to please myself now, I am the only one important"<P>That is one of the four things right there. Your H is trying to get you to take his guilt for him. He wants you to carry the full burden, but DON'T. You don't have to, really.<P>He didn't get to be successful on his own, he knows that. If he didn't love you, and could've done it on his own, he'd have left long ago, trust me. If he didn't love you now, he would not be trying to make you take his guilt for him.<P>OD is being played, too. Money is a powerful thing, but you know its shine is false, she will see that. You think OW is 'bright' enough to fool everyone? Did she not reveal her true nature to you? She is a fool, too, and thinks she has gotten over on you by 'taking' your husband from you, and you are too stupid to see. What is she, about 12? <BR>Too bad she doesn't see that HE is using her, too! She can't fulfill a man, she has no love for anyone but herself, same for your H. Don't you think OD will see this? Doesn't YD? Don't the two of them talk? It will be handled better on its own, this one, you just continue being a good MOM, that's what you do best, I suspect. (And look at little slices of stuff under a microscope, that is! )<P> 'Love shack' is basically my term for my XW's apartment. The reference is to a song by the B-52s:<BR> 'The love shack is a little old place where we can get together.'<P>I will close today with an offer to you:<BR>Here is my e-mail address mtblake@netexpress.net . If you send me your address, or one you are comfortable revealing, I will send you some books I bought, read, and have no use for, okay?<BR>

Hello, <BR>I am now really desperate, I wrote you an answer (it took an hour job) and everything just disappeared. I'll try again.<P>We are almost at real time , I wrote you about 1.30 pm and you answered at 6.30 am. If there was a chat room we could chat. Pitty there is not!!!<P> <BR>I know he is not a masochist, I assume that is MLC, we were the first and only one to each other and he started to think " I am growing old and I have been with only one woman, I have to try with other" and he now has a money ( but also intelect and outlook) to do that.<P><BR>that is what she ws really telling you.---- but only to me nobody else heard her and he would not believe me that she said these things.<BR> Trust me, he WILL tire of that.--- I don't think man can be tired just opposite he'll look for another younger and younger....more and more... <P><BR>He didn't get to be successful on his own, he knows that. ---no, he truly believes he is the only one who responsible for the success and that's mostly the truth, I never earned a lot of money and if he was not like he was he should never build a house or establish such company.--- he really did it on his own.<P>If he didn't love you now----no, he does not love me now that's sure he hates me he only wants me "to get off his back and leave him to live his life" (said a lot of times)<P>OD is such a character that she makes a wall arround herself and she wants only to please herself and does not allow to be hurt--that IS the best for her, but hurts me.<P><BR> You think OW is 'bright' enough to fool everyone? --- In fact she DID that--- Did she not reveal her true nature to you? ----but only to me , all the others see her like a smart nice looking calm funny...and love her cause she's just opposite to me.<P>She is a fool, too, and thinks she has gotten over on you by 'taking' your husband from you----don't you see she DID that, I don't stay on her way, not a bit after Sunday<BR>Everyone is assured now I am the crazy one and she is "the way out""the obtion for resolving the problems"<P><BR>Too bad she doesn't see that HE is using her, too---- no he is in love HE can't see she is using him only for money and not to stay alone (she is 33 and it's time for her to make a family on her own)<P>Don't you think OD will see this? ---- Maybe she does but she has more peace with OW than with me so... she has chosen the best for her.<P>Doesn't YD? YD hates OW but H say it's because I say bad things about her and that she is telling me stories what never happened cause she wants to make me happy.<P>Don't the two of them talk? In fact no, it's 8 years difference between them<P> you just continue being a good MOM----that's the greatist problem: I can't continue beeing what I never was.<P><BR> 'Love shack'---- in fact I think about my former house (they happily live in for 8 months now) as a brothel, cause he painted walls in a kind of red colour so when you look at the window when the lights are on you can imagine ....<P>Look, I sometimes think everything would be good if only he comes back, but the truth is I probably would never , could never forget and forgive, it's two years period it's too long--and he is aware of that.<BR>I am aware he would probaly not stay with OW, but there will come OW2, OW3.... each one prettier , younger...<BR>The only thing I am positive is that he has not a little thought of coming back to me especially after these scenes I made him, lkike a suicide attempt last year, a lot of crying hysteryc attacks during last year and of course last Sunday. and he is right. Who on Earth will choose a woman like me while he has a lot of better opportunities.<P><BR>Thanksfor your help and care and offer but simply can't expect of you to send me books when you are unemployed and have to take care of kids...and me is emploxed but here the salary is small and I have no money to afford books (I earn about600$ a month and the prices are almost like in USA.<P>I'll send you e-mail on Mon with more details cause I have to go with YD to the beach to please her. In the evening she'd go to him till tomorrow night, what makes me crazy to stay alone.<BR>I wrote you my mother broke a leg so I have to go each day to her ti cook, clean..iron.. (and the same for my apartment!!) I feel so weak.<BR>I wanted to ask him for more money but I am too proud (and one ca't live from pride!!). he knows the situation but didn't offer help of course. She has to spend mone on OW and her family--- what are wWE to him exW, ex MIL ex FIL...nothing.<P>How are you and rthe boys?<BR>Do you hav still hope your W could wish a reconciliation in some time? Do you believe you (both) could succeed?<BR>Pleae write more about you.<BR>Wish you nicer weekend<BR>D<P>

D,<BR> I was going to ask about your Mother's health, I know it is a concern, and my Father broke his hip in April. He has had Herpes Encephalitis for about four years, and had some bad seizures, brain damage, emphysema, and circulatory problems...he's not in good shape, and it is an additional concern of mine, since I live 1,000 miles away. His care, and my Mother's, have fallen upon my sister, as I have two brothers who are of little practical help.<BR> I understand your feelings of failure, and self-doubt, they come in great waves with little warning, and there really isn't much you can do, is there? D, in that book (Which you WILL let me send to you...I can get a job, and it would be my pleasure to scare up the $20, $30, or whatever it takes to get that tool to you. My XMIL would be willing to help, too, so don't be so noble, you need this book.) it talks about how your relationship will be rewritten, and it just reinforces your 'new' relationship when you deride yourself like that. You have not been perfect, I am certain of that. I know I haven't, either. I do what you are doing, too, but right now I know that mistakes are made by everyone, and the preceived rightness of these new romances that our {ex} spouses are involved in is the same (or less, get real!) rightness that led to our getting married in the first place. We had children, and are still charged with raising them, and further charged with providing them their right of a good example of morality. To me, that example is their family of origin, with Teri and myself as husband and wife. It is hard when I drive by her place late in the night, and his car is there, and the lights are off. Our interactions are stressed, and extremely uncomfortable for me. I have not even seen him since the divorce, which is good, because I'm not completely certain of my ability to control myself in his presence. I've got a lot of angst about him in general. I am charged with forgiving him, and her, and not doing anything about it. Furthermore, I am equally called to refrain from talking about my situation. I have to be a normal, caring father, and help my sons through this transition. Plus, I have to keep the house together, and find a way to make Teri even see me anymore. That's a lot.<P>MLCs do burn out, D. Men do realize the error of their ways sometimes, and a man with a 'broken and contrite heart' is a very great man for he has God's blessings back. Despair if you must, but why not rather take some time to remember that you have a broken and contrite heart now. Look to God for some comfort, and put your life back together for you. The people around you cannot help you, they aren't feeling your pain. That has never stopped anyone from thinking they know what you should do, unfortunately! Please do your heart, mind and soul some good by not talking about H or OW anymore. That's just confusing, and hurting yourself more, and you need to forgive them for what they are doing. (Okay, I know what you are thinking...I'm struggling with it, too.)<P>It is time to put positive things in your life now, not wallow in the negative. You have enough of that, and there's more to come...you know that. What's the sense in punishing yourself anymore? I'd say that you've been punished enough, wouldn't you? Wherever your life takes you, you won't be where you are now forever. You might just as well try to feel better about things. Personally, I sometimes wonder if I could feel any worse about things. Every time I do that, I find out I can, so I try to avoid that when I can.<P>So, I can see why you're an assistant professor...you did it for the money! Educators are underpaid here, too, but not like that! You do, of course enjoy your job? (I hope.) When you met your H, you gave something up that you enjoyed very much...why not do that again? Do you have a self image that is not of a wife/mother? What things inspire you? Seek those things, surround yourself with things that are important to you.<P>I do hold hope that my wife will return, but it will take some time. I am still, as I said before, summoning the grace to forgive them, its made more difficult since the affair is still so new, and they are still taking it into new areas since it went public. I talked to some friends (VERY FOOLISHLY, I MIGHT ADD!!) about it Friday night, and they were telling me that they are getting tired of seeing them together. That knowledge didn't really help me too much. There was some general bashing done by all of us, and it just made me feel worse. I'm not going to do that anymore. I am also not going to speak to my children about it, aside from letting them talk if they want to.<P>I am working on the house, trying to get it looking nice for a change. I have a truck now, so I can bring materials home more efficiently, which helps a lot. I have repainted the living room, and put a border at the top, but you are not going to like/believe the color: magenta. I put so much on that it looks like crimson....RED. It was a shock to me, too, but I like it now. It is a deep red, not a fire engine red. (Commonly known here, by the way, as 'whorehouse red', so your metaphor was not lost in translation!)<P>Go slow, D, and take care. I will wait for your e-mail.<BR> -Mike<BR>