discovered my wife having an affair with a married man who she works with.confronted both her and him.she is still emotionally envolved with him.he appears not to want the afffair to continue.my problem is how do i help my wife understand that she is ruining two families.also om's wife does not know about affair. schould i tell her.what do i do.this has been going on for a year.we both are going to therapy but my wife has not been trurhful to her therapist and we are going in circles.i love my wife and would do almost anything to keep our family together.we have two kid's 9&14.<P>[This message has been edited by iggy (edited June 21, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by iggy (edited June 21, 2001).]

Okay, why did you do THAT? And no, don't do the other THAT, either.

You are going in circles because you both have one foot nailed to the floor.<P>You are in C to fix this. Yes, she is being dishonest...you are right there. You found her out. Good detective work. You took her to task for it, too, I'll bet, didn't you? Yes, and won't it really chap her hide when you turn OM'sW on them?<P>Okay, do you want to fix the marriage, or just get the last word in?

Okay, Iggy...that's enough. I'll stop teasing you, because I am the same way. Ain't it wonderful?<P>I am sorry to hear that your marriage is not being healed. Tough break, there, but find some good. You are both in therapy, although your W might consider firing hers. The goal of therapy is to help an individual, not a couple, unless it is couples therapy, which this does not sound like. For all you know, her therapist may have known the whole time. You are not in that loop, so stay out of it, okay? Your imagination is keen, and you are right, but what did you expect her to do/say? She's not going to simply 'roll over' here. You'd better get dug in, and get a plan A/B (I'd say B, judging from your post, but if she is trying at all, A is the way.) READ THIS SITE IN ITS ENTIRETY, not just the forums. I suspect you want a quick fix here, and it will not be forthcoming. Concentrate on you, and the BIGGER PICTURE. You must learn new behaviors, you need to examine your R, and find out what is wrong, and fix it. Don't confuse the goal with the steps it takes to get there. Do the steps, not the goal. You want nothing more than to wake up tomorrow with it all fixed, and that is not going to happen. Tomorrow, you can work on you, and work a plan, but today you need to develop it. No negativity, she will do what she will do, you have zero power there now.<P>Having beaten you about the head and shoulders thoroughly, I'd like to say that your feelings are valid, and real. There is not a soul here that blames you for feeling the way you do. Really. I confronted my XW with suspicions (well-founded, like yours), and she denied them. That was two months ago. Last week, he spent the night while my CHILDREN were there. Now, my knowledge of the affair has left me with nothing. What did I gain by being right there? And, hey what about all the denial before I was sure? Don't waste your energy, if you think its bad, its probably worse.<P>Get the best relationship with your kids that you can, show them that you are a good man, and father. Do not speak ill of her or him to ANYONE...except here. You can bash away here if you want to, but keep it here. You have the relationship in your hands now, she is gone. Protect it, and put it aside for now, your time will come if you put things in place for it. I pray for you, Iggy. Take care.

thanks it is just so hard to keep going thru this crap.

Okay, but stay here...I'm not done yet....feed me some more, I'm making some coffee, okay?

Yes, I know...its real tough. Have you read 'His Needs, Her Needs'? Or the articles here? I think you should, really, it will help explain some of what you both are doing, and you can draw some strength from that. For example, she is not being open and honset with you. Why is that? Openness and honesty are MAJOR need, especially by women...would she be trying to tell you that you have not been/are not open and honest with her?

we have had a very stressful relationship.i am to blame for very poor communication with her.i have changed a great deal and am continuing to work on my faults.she on the other hand has done nothing wrong.i really believe that any problems we have could be worked out if the om was not in the picture.i also believe his wife has a right to know what a rat he is.

Yes, that's true, but you will not be moving toward your goal by trying to put a wedge between them. That's pursuit with a capital P, and it is weak, and she will get into full gallop if you go there, so I'll urge you once more to refrain from getting involved at all with that relationship.<P>If there was/is poor communication, that's her fault, too. You both bring something to the table that you shouldn't. Identify what those things are, if you are looking for something constructive to do about it. You can stop bringing what you do, and be aware when she brings what she shouldn't. That moment is the moment that you can change how your communicate for the better instead of taking it down that same tired path.<P>You say you've made changes, and that's good, but that's not enough. In addition, you need to show integrity, lots of integrity. You need to incorporate some new positive behaviors and influences into your life. In other words, you need to show her something new, Iggy. You need to show her that you are out of the rut, and can do okay on your own. You need to get her respect back. That is FEMALE respect, so don't go wrestling any alligators, that won't do. And DO NOT TRY FLOWERS! Detatch from her, and quit TRYING to win her back. EARN her back like she was in another galaxy, because she is.<P>I know its hard, but you know chasing her will only make things worse, you have got to define that behavior COMPLETELY before moving on, and eliminate it now. This type of idea (calling and telling OM's W) will seem real keen to you, and in no way weak. No, in fact its only proper, isn't it? She deserves to know, you are right there, but that's not our call there. When this all blows over, wouldn't you rather be the one that took the high road? Your relationship requires integrity. Right now she has none, so you need enough for both of you.<P>Take care, and be strong. You can do this.

This is a complicated issue, first I think philosophically all affairs should be revealed, not so much to "get" anyone, but simply cause the secrecy does no one any good, not the ws, not the bs, not the op (or their spouse). It plain and simple is not good for anyone's mental health, and strikes at social stability. However, this is also a relationship issue, and part of being messy humans is that we don't make our lives an open book on a daily basis, we do need time to sort ourselves out for ourselves, hence the so-called secrecy..... In an ideal world folks in a troubled marriage would fix it, or divorce before forming emotional attachments elsewhere. But humans mostly have poor skills in this area, and in general an "affair" is in part, a learning experience, and a wake up call (albeit one with a high price) for all involved.<P>When it comes to revealing, the conflict is the usual, ideally the BS would be told by the WS under controlled conditions, cause of the intense emotional/psychological fallout. At least hearing it, and the remorse, from the "guilty" party is a start in the right direction (from a human mental health standpoint), regardless of future outcome for the couple. If ws is unwilling, then IMO an effort to encourage the ws by making it clear if they don't tell, then bs will be notified by others, is in order. If that fails, then a matter of fact (unemotional, no fault-finding etc.) letter, or other communication, should be made to the bs, informing them of the situation, and suggesting getting immediate counselling is in order.<P>This is not putting a wedge anywhere, it is a matter of the highest good. To a large extent we are our brother's/sister's keeper, and this knowledge is important, and needs to be revealed (for everyone's sake)..... but done so in a calm, compassionate manner. There is some logic to not jumping the gun when an A is first discovered, the resultant emotional earthquake can drive people to rash actions and choices possibly, each circumstance is different, but that is of some concern. However, after a year it would seem that time has passed. You said the om does not want it to continue, if so, and he has chosen his wife, it is unclear why he hasn't told her yet himself, that is crucial to the repair of that marriage. WS are understandably sensitive to BS trying to make trouble for the op, so if your actions seem vindictive, rather than responsible, could be a big LB, and make one wonder about you.... But if you have waited for wife and om to work it out, and nothing is happening, then your action seems reasonable. Secrcy is an understandable choice up to a point, as people decide on their own (withoug outside pressure) what they want to do with their lives, but that time has a season, and hers has passed. Since your W seems to be stuck in both worlds (not leaveing you, but not honestly working with you either on whether she will stay or not), she has used up her allotment of secrecy, and needs to be held accountable. The best outcome is for w and om to make responsible choices, either repair marriages, or choose each other, trying to maintain both (and the secret)is not ok, or healthy.<P>I do object to one statement you made, that your W is ruining 2 families. BS seem to want to go to that extreme, no one has the power to ruin anything (not to mention that seems to absolve the BS of their role in the marital disharmony). Everything that has happened in your life (and everyone elses) is the end result of choices made by all the parties. No one has a perfect life, if your w leaves you, the family is not ruined, it is simply changed, and that experience (along with all the millions of other experiences it has) is just part of the tapestry of our existence. I strongly object to these kinds of cataclysmic value judgements, they are ignorant and unhelpful. It implies that all of us who grew up in divorced families, or dysfunctional families, are forever "ruined", defective in some way (and that includes most of the human race)......well, life is what you make of it, and we can lament over not having perfect lives, or we can be accept that life is not perfect and strive to be the best people we can. IMO it is far more healthy, and effective, to focus on whether (and how) a relationship will continue, then it is to guilt someone into behaving the way YOU want them to. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by sad_n_lonely (edited June 24, 2001).]

Iggy<P>Most definitely, from my own personal experiences in this area, I would say not to worry about the OM and his relationship with his wife. You are neither part of the problem nor part of the solution there. If you get involved you create another unhealthy triangle in thier life.<P>I would also avoid the OM. Your relationship with your wife must be free of triangles. Now, she did involve him in your relationship, but it is best if YOU do not. I don't mean not to acknowlege the effect of the affair, but just don't continue the triangle by involving him. This is now between you and your wife.<P>I don't understand why you have separate counselors. Unless I misunderstood your post. <P>You are in my prayers... this is a tough row to hoe but you and she can have a delightful marriage if you start down the road together now. And don't forget... as this site and books will tell you, your wife has to withdraw from the relationship and that will be necessary for her to begin to work on the relationship with you.<P>

had to force my wife to get up sunday morning to have a talk about where we were headed.she has still shown no remorse about her affair.she wants to continue and live together without working on our relationship.i found a card she was sending to om so i know she is still envolved.i told her that if she dosen't cut all ties with him and want to work on our relationship then we could not stay together.she said she had to talk to her therapist.its been a year of this sort of stuff.my patience is runing out.

Boy I have to disagree with you all.<P>The OW's H told me about the A after his attempts to make his W stop the A. I have to tell you I am SO Grateful that he did this. As I have said before...her H and I worked together to verify that all contact has stopped. And to this day I know that if they start then we call each other. That is one thing that has kept my sanity.<P>If your W is still in contact with the OM then I say you HAVE to tell his wife. They will only continue the A behind your back because they think they can get away with it. <P>I believe that to this day I would still be in denial about the A, if I hadn't heard about it from him.

Yes, patience....hmmm. Try getting rid of your expectations. Give your fraternal love, and do not expect it to change things. Return to the fact that you love her, forget about her end of it for now.