A general question...<P>What is the purpose of child support?<BR>Who does more care?<BR>Who makes more?<BR>Finances why not share?<P>Why so bitter?<BR>Is it bitter or a belief?<P>Where do your thought stand and why?<P>I have my own issues and ex is playing hard ball again so i was wondering am i wrong?<BR>Explain my story later.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by looking ahead:<BR><B>A general question...<P>What is the purpose of child support?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Fulfillment of your parental monetary obligations.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Who does more care?<BR>Who makes more?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Appropriate questions for the court setting the support figure.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Finances why not share?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Because you're divorced. The idea is to share as little as possible henceforth!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why so bitter?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I dunno. Who did what to whom?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is it bitter or a belief?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't know how to make sense of this one.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Where do your thought stand and why?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Fulfill your obligations. Willingly.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have my own issues and ex is playing hard ball again so i was wondering am i wrong?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you are selfishly trying to weasel out of taking care of your kids, yes you're wrong. If you're being unreasonably bled, maybe not.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Explain my story later.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please do. <BR>

Looking Ahead,<P>My friend Sisyphus just posted a fantastic response, I'm glad I don't have to top that. But make that two who hope you will post a little more.<P>I started out paying child support after a losing battle trying to get custody. Within eighteen months, one by one, my ex agreed I was better equipped to care for the kids than she was, and they lived with me until they were ready to strike out on their own. My ex flatly refused to contribute to their support for a time. (Today, she can't do enough for them, she is a good mom and wonderful grandmom!)<P>Time out for a reality check here; my children, and grandchildren, have cost me a hell of a lot more after the legal obligation to support ended than they ever did during the period of obligation. <P>Child support payments are the subject of a lot of bitter remarks, mostly because the payer really does not understand, or more to the point, refuses to recognize what child support payments are. The complaint heard most often is cruel rhetoric that starts out with: "I'm giving my ex ..... etc., etc.," Nothing could be further from the truth. Child support doesn't give your ex anything. <B>It is money one contributes to the support of one's children. </B> It is your duty, your responsibility, and <B>your right</B> to contribute to the upbringing of your child.<P>Now, let me debunk a myth. This isn't going to be politically correct, but, between seventy and eighty five percent of all child support arrangements are agreed to by parting parents outside the court room! Most people work these things out between them, and the courts merely approve the agreement. They rarely go back to court for increases, they work that out too. Most parents never question the need to provide for their kids. <P>The only way I was able to stay half way sane through the process was to accept responsibility for my own actions, regardless of anything my ex did or said. There is nothing an ex spouse can do, good or bad, that will change the fact that children need two parents. No matter what was going on between us, I accepted the responsibility to do my best for my kids. That responsibility never changes until the kids are shoveling dirt in my face. And that responsibility isn't affected by anything the ex does or fails to do. It just makes it easier to see it in that light.<P>My youngest son, 30 years old, has congestive heart failure. He is totally disabled, he is terminally ill, and the doctors think it will eventually kill him. His condition worsened this week, he just got out of the hospital again this morning. On the way back to his apartment, we stopped and I paid to get his prescriptions filled. That is what a parent does, it is a parent's right to do these things. <P>Here's an idea for anyone who questions the need for child support. You figure out a way my son can live, and I'll gladly figure out a way to make your child support payments.<P>Prayers and stuff,<P>Bumper

You have a lot of tough questions that only you can answer for yourself. Here is one thing to consider when coming up with the answers. Your kids are yours. They didn't cause the divorce and shouldn't be used as a way to get back at your ex. It does cost a lot to raise kids. She will need the money for activities and childcare. Their lifestyle should change as little as possible to minimize the effects of the divorce on them. It will tough enough as it is. Whatever the correct amount is for your salary, I urge you to pay it to the best of your ability. If not, you may not feel very good about yourself later. If you do the best you can to help raise them, you can always look in the mirror and be proud of what you see.

Bitter being an emotion...arrived at by being frustrated...and belief being a position you hold because you thought it out rationally?<P>If so, I'd say that you were bitter, and that cannot be an acceptable belief. I pay $91/week to XW, who has a 1 bedroom apartment, which I'm sure is temporary, its a dump. Certainly not a place I want them in, but that's not my place until it affects them substantially...for real, not my resentment imagining things. Do they each get $91 a month from it at her place? No, there is no way they do. That, my friend is her responsibility, her fault if she doesn't, and not NECESSARILY any of your business. See, we did 50:50 custody, but I'd say it breaks down more like 75:25, and the money works like this: I PAY ALL OF IT.<P>My belief...it's not right. Its not fair. I believe in my children, so I pay it gladly, and then turn around and double that here, because I know the $91 is only partially providing for them. Don't even start with the rest, because it is ALL mine. That's the way I want it. Do you think that college will be paid for by her? Not on WAY less than $12K, I can assure you that. I could take sole custody, and I might if things degrade, but that is not my intent. My intent is to do what's BEST for them, not promote an agenda against my XW. (Not to say I don't have one, I do...I know better than to act on it, though...today.)

Okay,<P>I am the wife. ex wife.<BR>I receive support.<BR>For a 7 year old daughter.<BR>I make 17,000 a year.<BR>I took a boarder on because it helps to pay the bills.<BR>Consequently we became great friends and babysitting at no cost has now occurred.<BR>Thankfully because i can't afford it.<BR>He according to the agreement is suppose to pay half child care expenses.<BR>I have tried once. He told me he'd write me a check, i signed a letter stating paid in full. He submitted it then went on vacation with his girlfriend.<BR>I NEVER SAW MY 700 BACK CHILDCARE EXPENSES<P>He currently sits 3 monthsin arrears.<BR>I have sole custody.<BR>Out of anger i didn't allow him at her school.<BR>Something i have changed very recently.<BR>It was a difficult divorce.<P>We began dating again.<BR>But now he is asking me for joint custody and telling me he can't afford to live.<P>He owns a car lot.<BR>His salary is 800 weekly 524 take home.<BR>Plus expenses, like dinners gas and insurance.<BR>I begrudge him none of this because he works for it.<BR>Kudos to him!<P>He puts $5000 a year in RRSP's<P>We both own homes.<BR>He owes 100,000<BR>I owe 82,000<P>We both live in decent areas.<BR>Schools, stores major roadways etc....<P>He says he feels he shouldn't pay because i spend weekends with him.<P>He says he pays for everything and that that isn't fare.<P>My story has your opinions changed?????<BR>He pays 400 a month.

CS state guidelines <B> SUCK! </B><P>I make 2x the X BUT she has a free house, about 3,000 sq feet, free utilities for 9 months, free food for 9 months, and after expenses, she has more free cash flow than i do, and she wants $1,700 per month. i have a 800 sq foot apartment for $1,500 per year without utilities. For WHAT CS is that much for under those conditions?<P>if we take the market value of her housing and utilities, its about $40,000 per year, which added to her salary is equal to mine.<P>BUT the state guidelines doesn't take that into account. and she does not want to pay for college, so <B>WHAT THE F*** IS ALL THAT MONEY GOING TO?" </B><P>yeah, CS sucks as a blanket formula assumption.<P>tom

My ex is also in the car business. So this hit a chord with me. He does not want to pay support and seldom does anything until I threaten him with court. If that is what it takes for him to do right by his kids, that is what I do. It would be easier for me to give up, and I think that is what he intends me to do. But for the sake of the kids, I won't. <P>He also complains that I want to strangle him in business. I have come to the realization that he says stuff like that to get a reaction out of me. It is not really true, but anything that will make me feel guilty enough not to make him live up to his obligations, he will say or do.<P>My suggestion is that you sit down and figure out how much is really fair... how much the kids need to enjoy the standard of living they would have if you were together. It is irrelevant how much you owe on your respective homes. (Maybe you or he own a home outside your ability to pay.) Child support is about the children. Then once you come up with a fair figure, divide it by proportion of your incomes. Don't forget that it is law (in my state anyway) that child care (for employment purposes) is paid avove that. So that should not be included in the figure. If you do this and you find that he is paying too much, by all means, reduce his support. But I think you will find that either the court has it about right, or he is not paying enough. I am not recommending that you go for more. I am just suggesting that the courts consider the children's best interest and usually calculate pretty well to get a fair figure.<P>If you find he is paying more than his share... a quick way to reduce it would be to count off the weeks he has the kids and take off for those times. And if you are staying weekends with him, then those times too. <P>But whatever you do, don't sacrifice what belongs to the children because you want to appease him. THEY did not get divorced, and they deserve the best you both can afford.

I don't know which state you live in...but I know here..the courts decide child support..it doesn't matter what is agreed upon..it used to matter..but not anymore they changed that Law...they look at both incomes, childcare, (medical insurance could be used as part of child support)they even have a formula they use to determine the amount of support by both parents..<P>

A general question...<P>RE: What is the purpose of child support?<P>The purpose of child support is to ensure that each parent has the money needed to take care of the children. The money is for the children.<P>RE: Who does more care?<P>I have our son 60% of the time. His father has him the other 40%. <P>I am however the one who takes care of all the details, buys all the cloths, the band equipment, pays all school fees, lunches, etc etc etc. So I have about 80% of the responsibility.<P>RE: Who makes more?<P>My XH is a physician. I make about 2/3 of what he makes.<P>RE: Finances why not share?<P>We do share the finances. You see the way it works out is that a formula is used to determine the amount each parent is obligated to put toward supporting the child. Using found figures. If the formula were to say that jointly we should spend $1000 a month on basic support. So I get 60% of that and he gets 40% of that. The formula used leaves him with about 300-400 a month to spend in for basic support. I contribute about that same amount to our son's care then I get a check for the difference.<P>It's a complicated formula. On top of the basic child support the court says he will give me 60% of other expenses. Those are things like health insurance, child care, out of pocket for doc appointments and meds, etc. <P>I do know that although his father is not only an MD but also has a masters in electrical engineering, the man cannot seem to read and comprehend the rather simple math of the child support calculation tables. It provides for him to have a certain amount of money each month to care for his son too. But he will not see this. Instead he preferrs to continue on in bitterness. <P>If you really study the formula's used, at least in New Mexico, they are very well thougth out.<P>RE: Why so bitter?<P>Why is my XH so bitter about paying child support? I haven't a clue. He acts like I'm taking him to the cleaners. He will not buy our son so much as a pair on boxer shorts or get him a hair cut. Recently my son asked why his father did not feel he was worth spending any money on. I feels that his father finds him a burden. I spend far more supporting my son then the court mandates because I make sure he has an instrument to play, goes to good summer camps, etc. His father will not contribute to this. In addition, since his father will not even by cloths for him, I foot that bill too. <P>RE: Is it bitter or a belief?<P>It's a choice. It makes him feel better I guess. If he'd worked on the marriage instead of chasing women, he'd not have to pay child support and could see his son every day. <P>Where do your thought stand and why?<P>I have my own issues and ex is playing hard ball again so i was wondering am i wrong?<P>Explain my story later.<P><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Well living in New Mexico as well I have to say that yes the support tables are pretty fair and very thorough. My ex-wife makes more than I and we share a 50/50 time arrangment that is working fairly well since we live in such close proximity to each other. As a father I was under the impression that I would be paying support to her even though she makes most of the money, not the case. In fact I don't pay her anything, figured out on paper she has to pay me but I waived the right to that only asking her to pay for half of everything else that comes up, i.e. medical, activities, clothing, childcare and such and so far it's working fairly well. I do have to say that the clothing deal has changed because my daughter is growing so fast that we now both have to buy her clothing just to keep up but for the most part everything is fairly even. But under the circumstances as long as I have my daughter exactly half the time and pay for exactly half the expenses then yes I would have a problem with paying her support on top of that knowing that my daughter is financially taken care of. College you say? Well that's taken care of as well. Since my ex had the better 401k plan we had decided at the time to max that out and the funds set aside from my paycheck would instead be used to pay bills and other family debt, therefore I didn't have my own 401k. As the divorce became evident suddenly all that money that was put away in her 401k became all hers. In her mind I wasn't entitled to a dime. I had to fight for it but managed to secure a third of it for my daughter's education when she's ready and they'll be more than enough in there by then, plus some extra. Fortunately she'll go to college before I retire so I'm starting from scratch but at least my daughter will have a proper education.

Jax,<P>Sounds like you and your ex are working things out well. That's good. Unfortunately my ex and I cannot do that in that he refused to give me any child support until the courts made him do so.<P>I am sure that you know that each story is different. I put my ex through medical school. During those years not only did he not build any medical school debt but he also moved money from my income into his mother's name and his name. He also put his heritance from his father into accounts in his own name and would no use them to help pay for his medical school. So ex's, males and females, come is all types. <P>Glad to hear things are going fairly well for you and your daugher.<P>z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Well I guess the term "working things out" could be used, well that is if you add "with the help of the courts" of course. I too had to force her to works things out. She wasn't going to budge on it otherwise. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Jax (edited June 24, 2001).]

My x tried to get out of paying child support too, she said she wouldn't ask for alimony if I didn't seek child support. My attorney told me she had almost no chance of getting of getting alimony.<P> She also said she would take less money from the house and my pension if I granted her liberal visitation. My attorney advised agianst this. <P>When her the divorce papers finally came, none of this was in it. She sought miminimum visitation and sandbagged on her income.<P>I brought this to her attention and she finally caved and now pays on what she made in 1998 working part time. She since is working full time plus has an additional job.<P>I pay all meds, except for non-insured items, then see pays first $100 and then it is split 70(me)30%(her) based on the fact that I hard brought in 70% of income.<P>We did not specify collge tuition, I wanted to but attorney stated her lawyer would object, and that that is included in the CS. I receive $400 per month for 2 kids. I usually ask for half the kids sports fees, pictures, shoes, etc and she usually pays half, but she drags it out over the month.<P>I have heard her complain a couple times about not having to deal with things, kid problems, extra bills, because she pays CS. I guess it is a sticking point for her.<P>I can ask for increase in CS and I think about it occasionally, but figure it will do more harm than good since she is willing to pay half.<P>She told me once that om/h is to inherit some money so maybe he will pay for my kids college(yeah right).

He still claims he loves me and wants to take care of me.<P>So i asked how's that by ruining me?<BR>Financially.<BR>Rub it in my face?<BR>2 more weeks and he is 4 mos overdue.<P>I feel like i let him walk on me.<BR>I felt bad for him so i didn't pursue childcare costs

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B> Please do. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>hi <BR>chld support is very unfair. You would not beleive what is happenineg to us. what is your story?