I spoke with my ex-wife’s grandfather tonight for the first time in about two months. Ironically, he was just getting out his address book to call me when I called him. During our phone conversation he informed me that an elderly relative who had lived out of town passed away about a month ago after taking ill with infection suffered from a broken hip. The kicker for me is that this was the first I had heard about her passing. Granted, this lovely lady was not part of the immediate family for me, but I had spent time with her at family gatherings over the past few years and really thought a lot of the old gal.<P>I understand that I am divorced from my ex wife and that her family is still hers, but that still doesn’t stop me from feeling that I have been “excused” from the family, at least to the extent that the ex didn’t even have the common courtesy to let me know of the loss. My ex and I have maintained a friendship throughout our divorce and even though we don’t stay in constant contact, something as monumental as a loved one’s passing warranted an email to me in the very least. At least this is my opinion.<P>A friend of mine passed away recently, one in which my wife and I had spent some time with over our years. Out of courtesy and friendship, I sent a brief email to her just so she would know of his passing. Maybe it just goes to one’s character? I mean, she has amazed me with her selfishness and immaturity at times over the past year so why should her recent actions (or lack thereof) not surprise me? I’m actually a bit offended and angry with the ex about this. <P>I guess I am also feeling down because I was blindsided by my entire divorce and aside from losing my wife, I’ve also lost a big part of my family from the past 7+ years. I continue to feel that I am being punished for something in which I could not control. I am a good person and I was a loving husband. So much has been taken from me at the hands of the one person in this world that I never thought was capable of hurting anyone, especially not me.<P>She said that I was a wonderful man, a great husband, provider and friend, yet she did not want to be with me. She stressed to me that I am a great guy, I’m just not the man for her. If I believe this to be true and my self-esteem still remains to be strong, then why do I feel like the bad guy here and like I'm being punished? <BR>

Put the bat down....You hit it on the head when you stated that you have been pushed out of her life and her families...<P>You are also correct in the common courtesy aspect too...<P>It prove the point of unreasonable expectations...<P>I go through it too it is just part of this thing we call call divorce...<P>When you are ready to completely let go, you will...It's ok to have these feelings, hell I still get them from time to time, when I want to know about her family I just ask...<P>Bill

I understand...<P>20 years is a long time to love people that you have to suddenly cut out of your life.<P>Right before I moved, my FIL took me aside and made me promise not to drop off the face of the earth... said I would always be their daughter... but you know... the last eight months... they haven't talked to me, I have written, they don't write back... and I understand. <P>But it still hurts.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>And we know. We who have seen. ~Pellegrino

I get that sense, too. XW has large FOO and many ties here, mine is 1,000 miles away. I have initiated all contact...even with my friends. Only two ever come here, and that is nice, but they are younger, and it doesn't help with the real issue:<BR> You don't get any validation from people who claim to care about YOU. Now that it isn't Teri & Mike....Mike doesn't matter. Well, we were never calling all the time before, and honestly its just as akward for them. Your XW was a common tie, and now what? I have initiated contact with XMIL...she bought me dinner. Sweet woman in her own D pain now...hmmm...like father....ahhh. I contacted one of my XSILs last week, went out with her and (probably if he doesn't change STBX)H. Her daughters were always wanting to come and stay (I've got four boys, but we all have lots of fun.laughs), but my XW is a bit cold to kids, especially girls...and they aren't overly anxious to spend time with her. Oh well...they are here now, and my 6 year old is HAVING FUN with them at my house. Gotta go, its time for painting...gonna mess up the kitchen...'cuz we can.<P>Don't take it personally, reach out to the ones you want to, they get to feel some of her guilt, too, unfortunately, and you might just help them with that. Who knows? That might make you feel better, and she might see what she left wasn't worth leaving...that would make you feel better, I'm sure.<P>BTW...so she does not have to...that's why.<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited June 21, 2001).]

Hi...<P>Yeah, I too have been thinking this one through... sorry about it and glad you are venting 'cuz it's these niggling issues that really blow into monumental proportions if one doesn't vent!<P>Nyneve, you write: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>but you know... the last eight months... they haven't talked to me, I have written, they don't write back... and I understand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is scary to me because I'm sensing the same thing in my stbx-inlaws... They are adamant that we are one and that I am their daughter. Yet when their own son (youngest child I might add) acts this way, afterall, what do they do? Nothing, they feel badly. So, my conclusion comes to this, isn't blood thicker than water? I think I'm the disposable one to everyone... in fact, because I give them an ear, and seek to learn how to make changes, they don't hesitate to tell me what I need to do - like "stay on course, Nicole" and things about being wise...and yet WHO exactly is wavering NO downright abandoning the course all together? It's very frustrating and I finally just have to realize that they are HIS family and that the D will rudely impact my relationship with them as well. His siblings... well, they've already written me off as queen BI#@H anyway and if it were up to them, this would have been done a long time ago. So, no love lost there... <P>So, I too wonder about the etiquette of post-divorce happenings... thanks for raising the topic!<P>Cheers!<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Ah Jayhawk...<P>Mine didn't even bother to inform me he was getting remarried to the bimbo this weekend (been officially divorced a whopping 6 weeks and only 9 1/2 months since he moved out of a 15 year marriage) so...<P>I'm thinking Post-divorce courtesy is kind of an oxymoron for the people who bailed...<P>Keep that Kansas chin up!<P>Lisa<P>------------------<BR>I am woman...hear me roar...okay - meow...okay - purr? Hey, I'm working on it.

Well I haven't heard from her family since the day she left, I know they cared about me, I think it is just shame and them not knowing what to say or think because of her. I realize it is better for me not to have contact, it would only be away of staying connected to her. It is amazing that some one can tear families apart, everyone hurts except the WS it seems, she seems to be happy and having the time of her life. Oh well it gets better with time, now a days I wonder sometimes if she ever was right for me. it still hurt and i still feel the yuck swell up inside but I just go on. take care of yourself<P>

I was very close to my ex's family too. In fact, for the past year, I have been living in my exMIL's house! (Renting--she is not here.) I recently made the painful decision to move. It is a lovely house and I was making plans to buy it, but decided for many reasons that that would not be right for me. She has been amazing, supportive, and loving through all of this. She sends me "family letters" that she sends to her whole family. One of the reasons that I decided to move (not the biggest one mind you) was that I wanted to slowly cut ties and move on. Ok, so it is a big tie, but the motivation was that I wanted to detach myself a bit from the family. Little at a time. Is it because I don't care about them? Not at all. I just want an identity separate, to not have the reminder of what I am missing, to start fresh. To avoid some of the pain and to let go. It wasn't my choice, but I have to deal with it as is. I don't expect to get family letters forever, and that saddens me, but I am a realist, and would p*ss on a rainbow if it came along anyway so it is easier for me to deal with.<P>My point (dull as it is) is that maybe your ex probably wants to detach herself from you and your family and that is a natural part of divorce. Sometimes I think we cling to the families as a last bastion of what we lost. Yes, we care about them. And it hurts more because it feels like we are being rejected by a whole slew of people. Also, it probably makes the family members (in some cases) feel awkward. What do they say, how should they act, should they cover the new photographs up in their house, should they hug you, would your ex approve, what should you call them....some older people I think since divorce is not part of their lives as much might feel more uncomfortable about it. I called my FIL once about a month ago to ask a very practical question, and he was SO cold to me. He is not Mr. Warm and Fuzzy, but yikes! Maybe he thought he was being loyal to his son. (His social skills are a little off so I don't think he really has a clue anyway). He also hasn't called or written since his son walked out a year ago. No hugs of support or anything. Just a statement of "I am not going to take sides." <P><BR>There is guilt, memories, and other things that your ex wants to avoid. That doesn't make her a bad person. Just human. Eventually, the relationship with the exs' families for all of us will fade I think.

Jayhawk,<BR>I remember when my exH left me a little over a year ago a co-worker of mine (also divorced) said that I would not be having any kind of relationship with my ex's family. At the time I just could not believe that would happen. But a year later I can see what she said was so true.<P>The bottom line is that your ex's family is no longer a part of your life and you are no longer a part of theirs. I think it is fairly uncommon for ex's to stay in touch with each others family.<P>I also think that, in my case, since our divorce did involve adultery and a lot of lies and deception on the part of my exH, his family just feels too awkward around me. To admit that their son was this jerk would be too much a reflection on them. <P>Also, unfortunately, blood is thicker than water. They had a relationship with your ex long before you were on the scene. I think it is just easier for them to not have to deal with you.<P>I have an 11 yo D who will be a part of my ex's family life forever. I just found out that they are all traveling out to see my exH and his new wife while my D is there this summer. Even though my initial reaction was hurtafter some personal reflection I can now understand and accept their behavior.<P>Again this again is another unpleasant side effect of divorce that we must all deal with and accept.

JH,<P>you keep picking at your wound, if you want to really move on, work towards the understanding that its not about you, that some day you will again have IL's, and that the XIL's will just fade away. In a harsh way, you had nothing more than a legalized serious college relationship that broke up. If your X was a parent pleaser, a "good girl", she might have married you "for her parents" in that she knew they would like you. But in reality, I bet she had issues that she made a decision not for herself, but for her parents, following an implied dream for someone else, and that is a key red flag to watch out for internally. <P>the best way to heal a personal wound is distance, everyone might be hurt from your X's decision. XIL's have unconditional love for their child, and tend to want to side with her, but also can get confused with seeing you as a great guy, and her actions.<P>I have never been able to "like" my inlaws, or my brother in-law. After we had kids, i basically got the OK not to go to XBIL's house when X wanted to go. XIL's were controlling, unable to hold a discussion where they were disagreed with, and severely co-dependent. XFIL acts very stupid to not challenge his wife, and XMIL has mental disorder problems. I had to throw them out of our house once in that we came home from a trip, they were sitting in the living room, and then asked what was for dinner. My X ran upstairs crying that they were here, and intruding, so i threw them out, and then X was crying because I stood up for her against her parents. (do you see a link that I am up against some FOO issues that I can't solve?)<P>X couldn't even tell me that XMIL was hospitalized. X actually said, "I didn't know how to tell you." The last time I saw XFIL, right after we separated, he was scared to talk to me, and then hid behind the door as i said goodbye to leave. I offered to go see XMIL in hospital and was giving the excuses, so i dropped it. At this point, i feel no need to talk to them unless i see them or accidentally happen into the same place as they are.<P>I rarely shook my FIL's hand, he shook it with the female grip, and i couldn't stand that. YUCK!!!!!! My parents invited XILs out to a play one night during a summer since they used to summer next to each other, and then my XILs became big supporters of the playhouse, but NEVER reciprocated any type of invitation back to my parents. My parents invited them to local family gatherings, but they never ever, asked my parents to one event, to one get together.<P>OK, my point being, you are excused, learn how to accept that, and do you think that are you going to have two sets of IL's in the future? I think that would be weird.<P>This is what divorce does, so make sure you pick the right person in the future so this does not happen again in the future.

Thank you all for your support and advice. I know this is all just part of the divorce process, but that still doesn’t stop it from hurting. For me, the loss of her family is almost as hard to deal with as the loss of the marriage itself.<P>I have already lost the majority of my extended family over the years so marrying into a family which was still complete like hers was a wonderful experience. We spent all holidays together and appeared to be close with one another. Losing the marriage and thus losing the extended family is like opening the wounds of loss for my own loved ones over the years. I know her family still loves me and cares for me as I do them, it just sucks what effect divorce has on a family. I sent a brief email of sympathy to my exMIL/FIL expressing my sorrow for their loss this morning. I just wanted them to know that even though we are no longer family, I still care about them.<P>I think WIFTT hit the nail on the head with the following statement: <I>“If your X was a parent pleaser, a "good girl", she might have married you "for her parents" in that she knew they would like you. But in reality, I bet she had issues that she made a decision not for herself, but for her parents, following an implied dream for someone else.”</I> My ex told me she felt that she had lived her life pleasing other people and now she was doing what was right for her. I’m just hurt, offended and a little angry that she didn’t figure this out (or admit it) many years back. It makes me feel that she stayed with me over the years out of necessity rather than desire. For that alone, I feel used.<BR>

Did you say "angry"? Do you think this could be the beginning of that "elusive" stage of grieving that you have been missing? This is the first I have ever heard you mention anger. Think of it as another step in a growth process for you, but keep that gentle spirit.<BR>

I know EXACTLY how you feel about getting cut off. As soon as H left me my in-laws disappeared. They suggest to people that I need to move back to where I came from even. They are continually thoughtless in all they do. My ex-BIL graduated this last year . I have been a aprt of his life for 7 yrs and OW was at his graduation. Now my other ex-BIL is getting married and my repacement will also be there. <P>HOWEVER, some of x's family do still have a deep relationship with me-they too have been cut off for this from graduation and this marriage just because they talk to me. <P>I have learned that my Exh's behavioral problems were definatly learned from his parents(who are going thru some very diificult times as a result of their history-which repeats itself!!)<P>Exh does not talk to me at all -His new girlfriend won't let him-wonderful relationship. <P>I have to say that part of my xh's family have been WONDERFUL to me and have treated me very well this last year. (They are even taking me on vacation with them in July!!!!) <P>My Ex-FIL will coming flying up to me when he see's me and gives me a giant hug. This is really hard on them but blood is thicker than water.<P>The rejection from a family does hurt - I have gotten it from my own plus my ex's -now you know why I won't "go Home".<P>We all can and will make it. LUNCH TIME!!!

gsd:<BR>Yes, I said the elusive word <I>angry</I>, probably the first time. I realized last night and even a bit more today that I really am starting to feel the anger. It's only taken a year, but I can feel it brewing. The more I sit here and think how much pain I have been through, how much pain our families have been through and how much I didn't deserve to be treated like this, the more my anger seems justified.<P>I received a very sweet email reply today from my exMIL and in a way, even this email made me angry because I know that her family is hurting/grieving as well. <P>As much as we all wish things would have been different, we can't change the past. We can only learn from it and move forward.<P><P>------------------<BR><I>We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us.</I><P>~Joseph Campbell

JH,<P>sad to say, some of us mature at different times and at different rates, and <I> differentiation </I> is a lifelong process. It didn't happen to me until i went to grad school when i was 30, and it advanced rapidly into my late 30's.<P>I was a good boy also, following in my dad's footsteps, until I decided what i really wanted in life. After changing careers radically, and starting over, my natural and second career was one that my X and her family values despise and ridicule. <P>Ultimately I betrayed my wife for separating my dreams from my dad's dreams, and it wasn't until i suceeded in the corporate world, did she realize she did not want or like to be a wife to a corporate exectuive. that is who i became, but not who she married. did i betrayer her? yes, by not knowing myself, and not being socially mature to really marry.<P>Did i know any of this before hand? no, NOT AT ALL, i didn't know it until i did it, and your X did not know about it until she lived it. You were not used, you were part of her differentiation process, and you didn't know it. It wasn't intentional, it is just part of the maturation process.<P>good luck,<P>and i know i'm harsh, but reality can really be enlightening.<P>tom

My situation is a bit different: while I live 3,000+ miles from any of my family (his or mine), my MIL and I still talk on the phone as often as we did when H was living with me. She thinks he's gone off the deep end. She loves him, but he will have nothing to do with her....just one more thing he's abandoned during this whole MLC.<P>His aunt & family live 6,000+ miles from me, so I hardly ever saw them anyway and didn't really write all that much. She wrote me after she first found out and expressed her love and prayers. And she's sent me birthday cards over the past two years and I know that if I was in Ohio, she would LOVE to see me and would welcome me with open arms....same for her kids (I think).<P>They all seem to understand that my H has messed up his life (again). He really is a troubled soul.<P>The other thing I wanted to share with you, Jayhawk is today's devotional from "Streams in the Desert:"<P><B><I>"Love covereth" (Prov. 10:12). "Be eager in pursuit of this love" (1 Cor. 13:7-13, Weymouth).<P>Rehearse your troubles to God only. Not long ago I read in a paper a bit of personal experience from a precious child of God, and it made such an impression upon me that I record it here. She wrote:<P>"I found myself one midnight wholly sleepless as the surges of a cruel injustice swept over me, and the love which covers seemed to have crept out of my heart. Then I cried to God in an agony for the power to obey His injunction, 'Love covereth.'<P>"Immediately the Spirit began to work in me the power that brought about the forgetfulness.<P>"Mentally I dug a grave. Deliberately I threw up the earth until the excavation was deep.<P>"Sorrowfully I lowered into it the thing which wounded me. Quickly I shoveled in the clods.<P>"Over the mound I carefully laid the green sods. Then I covered it with white roses and forget-me-nots, and quickly walked away.<P>"Sweet sleep came. The wound which had been so nearly deadly was healed without a scar, and I know not today what caused my grief."<P>"There was a scar on yonder mountain-side,<BR>Gashed out where once the cruel storm had trod;<BR>A barren, desolate chasm, reaching wide,<BR>Across the soft green sod.<P>"But years crept by beneath the purple pines,<BR>And veiled the scar with grass and moss once more,<BR>And left it fairer now with flowers and vines<BR>Than it had been before.<P>"There was a wound once in a gentle heart,<BR>Whence all life's sweetness seemed to ebb and die;<BR>And love's confiding changed to bitter smart,<BR>While slow, sad years went by.<P>"Yet as they passed, unseen an angel stole<BR>And laid a balm of healing on the pain,<BR>Till love grew purer in the heart made whole,<BR>And peace came back again."<P></B></I><P>Go ahead and be angry....it's part of the healing process. I think it's totally healthy. I found myself angry again this week at my H and was on the verge of calling him to spew it all out again, when I read this devotional. Yes, only God can really understand the depth of our pain and anger and He showed me it really wouldn't do any good to rail on my H. God will deal with him.<P>Aloha and keep the faith,<BR>Mrs.O<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs.O (edited June 22, 2001).]

Mrs.O,<P>ahhh....Streams in the Desert. Can I tell you that I have started each one of my days for the past year and a half with that book. What an amazing piece of literature for people going through hard times in their lives. I have given out at least 4 to 5 copies in the past year alone...<P><BR>Shawn,<BR>Not to sound redundant in our posts to each other, but you know that I have big issues with my inlaws as well and yes our stories are very similar. <P>I am sad at the way my inlaws have reacted to our separation and divorce. The one thing that helps me is the promise I made that when the day comes where I may be an inlaw to someone else, I will remember what it means to be "family" - meaning all family, not just members born into it. I am not one to follow the "blood is thicker than water" argument, for we all stem from one family (and I am not even talking just from a religious standpoint). To me that phrase is a bunch of hooey. A relationship is a relationship. Why one relationship should stand above another no matter what happens, is beyond me.<P>Don't misunderstand me, I do love and value my family, but I know damn sure that if my brother or sister (or mother or father) screwed up, while I would still love them, I would not condone their actions - nor would I alienate their spouse because of it. But that is just me. I realize that many in this world think differently.<P>In my relationship it was very obvious that I came fourth in my wife's mind - It was her father, then her brother, then her mother and lastly there was me. Several times throughout our marriage I wanted to talk about this with her, but she would always go to the extreme and say I was trying to "turn her on her family". Ridiculous (but I digress). Back to the inlaws: All I can do (and you can do) is to keep trying for as long as YOU want to. When the day comes where you don't feel like trying anymore, then that is when you stop.<P>For me a few of her family members were extremely important to me and because of that, I will probably keep writing every now and then for a while. Maybe one day it will pay-off - maybe it won't.<P>Only God knows...<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

So well said Mike, and I quote you: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For me a few of her family members were extremely important to me and because of that, I will probably keep writing every now and then for a while. Maybe one day it will pay-off - maybe it won't.<P>Only God knows...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Given what has recently happened with your neighbor, and such, it may pay off - you may not see it but I'll bet it will pay off... This is what the life of the Christian is all about... drawing wo/men unto Christ... we may not see it but we can be the dash of salt (flavor, preserving agent) in another's life. Love begets love... hang on to that! (Again, I'm preaching to myself here)<P>Thanks for all the thoughts... Mrs. O, that was wonderful... I've added your suggested link to my favorite sites. I may just purchase the book as I'd like to read it as a devotional also.<P>Cheers!<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR><B>I may just purchase the book as I'd like to read it as a devotional also.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's what I did too. I don't have a computer at home anymore, so I use the book on the weekends and the computer during the week.<P>I LOVE that devotional.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<P>

JH, Thanks for starting this thread. Your original post and the responses have been very interesting. I have been feeling really rejected by my STBX's parents. For years his mother's pat phrase about me has been that I was the best thing that ever happened to her son. But now that I am divorcing him for his alcohol and drug abuse coupled with an A, they have given him a large sum of money to pay for a lawyer and let him live for free in a trailer they own at the beach. They believe all his lies about me and though pleasant to my face, condemn me behind my back. My only SIL and I are very close. She is being condemned for "siding" with me and being told the "blood is thicker than water" line. She has tried to tell them that she is standing for what's right, not "siding" with me.<P>So I sympathize. This is all still fresh, but I can see from the responses that I will have to separate from his family. It is too painful for me, and apparently for them. He has been abusive in many ways and since they don't want to see him this way, they end up blaming me for it. My family is 3,000 miles away and my IL's have really been my surrogate family. It's sad how quickly their feelings have changed. They still tell me they won't have anything to do with OW, but if it's even true, I know it's just a matter of time.