I'm hoping you'all will give me a little encouragement while I'm having a tough time. Last week my H and I had our first counseling session, and it was a rough one. I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but I felt very attacked during the session and was really hurting.<P>Amazingly, just about the time I was really feeling low, I got a surprise gift from one of my dearest friends: a teddybear with angel wings to watch over me and remind me to do what was in my own best interest. It really changed my way of thinking--from being a "victim" of attack, to "No one else is going to lok out for me. I need to stand up for myself."<P>Well, that very day, I read out-of-the-fog's post to Too Late For Me?, and her post included her list of conditions in order for her to consider reconciling with her husband. I know it wasn't meant to do that, but her list really got me to thinkin'! When my H and I agreed to reconcile in February, we discussed what our minimum requirements would be, but I hadn't really stood by them and enforced them. Now, here it was five months later, and no one was standing up for my minimum requirements--including me. So I wrote an email reiterating those conditions and saying that this time, I was not going to back down. That was Thursday.<P>On Thursday night, we discussed my email at great length, and a couple of times, I think he tried to talk me into backing down--at least it seemed that way to me. I'm proud to say that I was not demanding or *****y, but I also did not back down. He had a trip coming up, and in my email, I told him that I wanted his decision and anything he wanted on his list by the time he got back from his trip. He said he would think about it, and we left it at that.<P>On Friday, Friday night, Saturday, Saturday night, and all day today (Sunday), I can honestly say that I kind of hoped he would let me know his decision (or at least which way he was leaning) before he left. I feel very worried that he is going to reject reconciliation if I am going to stand by my conditions--basically it feels like my neck is stretched WAY out there and he has the axe! Anyway, on Friday and Friday night I did an excellent job of helping him deal with something that was making him mad--I didn't diffuse the situation, I just helped him deal with his anger appropriately. On Saturday and Saturday night we had a pool party (opening our pool for the summer) and although it was a fun time, we barely spoke to each other--it was a little lonely. Finally, all day today we had a very good time together and were civil and everything, but he just never said anything about it.<P>So tonight he is on his trip, until Wednesday night. I already feel a little funky, because the last big affair was during business trips, but I have kind of accepted that. The problem is, I just feel like yet again, my heart is out there and . . . well, the fact is, I just feel bad. <P>Thanks for listening and sending some hugs and prayers and stuff!<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ,<P>I guess you got your DSL or something--good for you!<P>Anyway, I have only a minute before I have to hit the sack, not enough time for a very well thought-out answer.<P>Good for you that you won't accept a lousy marriage! I feel the same--I can give it time, but anything less than a goal of a real marriage is unacceptable. I did want to say, stay strong and hang in there, I'll be thinking of you. I'm sorry it's a tough time--you've had more than your share lately.<P>I'll check in tomorrow when I have some time.<P>Steve

Faithful-<P>I seems as though you and I came on board abourt the same time. I in Aug of 2000. <P>My H's affair also started on a business trip. Consequently he started meeting her when ever they could swing it on busieness. Their company paid for the whole thing!<P>My H is also out of town on his "vacation" with her and finally admitted it. In other words he did not say I am meeting X for a vacation. But when I asked if his upcoming trip was business, he said no vacation and let me assume the rest. Nice. We are still not communicating. We are settled on the divorce because I do not think I can do anything else and he is up for it, probably was all along...<P>But it is a hard thing to know that they take more vacations together than we ever did. One week a year.+ 2 weeks on product shows. We only did 5 day trips. At least, this time he is being honest all around and they are paying for this-both of them-for this trip. No company money this time. At least I don't have to deal with her on a daily basis. She lives in NY while we live in AZ. <P>But I think I am starting to let go. I don't feel quite as hurt as I usually do when I know they are together and I even called this AM to see if he had arrived okay after driving all night to Vegas. He had done our D's bday party all that day so I knew he would be tired.<P>You know what the pay off was? He actually called and gave me his phone and room number without my having to call his cell and prompt him. This is a first time in years. <P>Let go and let God.<P>

Dear CJ...<P>Hang on... it's called Tough Love. Stick by your boundaries and don't let him get you in a corner or please don't back down. You have time on your side if you see it that way. Let him see that you are serious and that you are holding the cards. What you want is a healthy relationship NOT a relationship based on his conditions.<P>I know the insecurity of his business trip, but you can't control, contrive, manipulate anything that he does on that trip so you might as well save the energy from worrying about it. Find something for YOU to do that is enjoyable. Let him call and find YOU not home but enjoying your life not worrying about him. In other words, get yourself a life that you're happy about. He may then decide, she's getting on with it and well, I do want to be a part of it. If he decides he doesn't well, then do you really want to be a part of his indecision and the recipient of his suffering from now til Kingdom come? You don't have to initiate any separ/Div but just be happy for who God made YOU to be. If he wants to join the ride, let him. It has to be his decision all alone. But, make it an attractive decision... one that makes him think, "Oh, I wouldn't want to live life without that!!!"<P>Cheers!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<BR><B>You have time on your side if you see it that way. Let him see that you are serious and that you are holding the cards. What you want is a healthy relationship NOT a relationship based on his conditions.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hear exactly what you are saying, and that is exactly how I feel. For maybe the first time in a long time, I feel oddly calm because I know that what I am doing is in my own best interest and in the interest of a healthy relationship. I feel confident on that regard. I am just quite afraid of being hurt again, but even if that happens, I know now that I can survive that too.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OvrCs:<B>I know the insecurity of his business trip, but you can't control, contrive, manipulate anything that he does on that trip so you might as well save the energy from worrying about it. Find something for YOU to do that is enjoyable. Let him call and find YOU not home but enjoying your life not worrying about him. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think it would be a major LB if he were to call and not find me home--or at least, not where I said I was going to be--but I hear what you are saying about one thing. While he is gone, I know I can not control anything that he does, and if he is bound and determined to see someone there is very darn little that I can do to stop it. No, that is not the issue. I feel like he is going to have to make his own decisions and choices about that. I think the bigger message that I am getting from you is that, in the same way that I have let go of controling his choices, I must now EMBRACE my own choices. I must now make choices with my own best interests at heart, and it is in my own best interests to chose to be happy. Even while he is gone and making up his mind about my conditions, I can make choices that I will find enjoyable, that will bring me joy, that will be GOOD FOR ME.<P>So, in summary, not only do I have to stand up for what is good for me, I also have to make choices that are good for me. Hopefully, the desired result is that I am living the life I was meant to live--and he can choose to be part of that life or not. <P>Cool! Thanks for your words of wisdom. Now, I MUST go to bed--I have to train a new person tomorrow!<P><BR>CJ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

(((((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))<P>So glad you're taking care of yourself. In one of the latest books I've been reading, "If The Buddha Dated", there are some check lists on red flag behaviors and bottom lines. One of the things the author recommends is writing down your bottom line(s) and checking them every time they are violated. I'm so glad you have reiterated yours. <P>I do wish more of your needs were being met. But I am glad that you and h have finally had a counseling session. Do you have a counselor just for yourself?<P>

Hi CJ. <P>OK, Tex is going to jump in here and say two things. <P>1.) If he did say anything about your conversation I would think he's doing 2 things. a.) Trying to get you to back down byu playing to your insecurity button, or b.) He's taking time to think about it. I would lean toward (a.) <P>2.) I disagree with your statement "I think it would be a major LB if he were to call and not find me home--or at least, not where I said I was going to be--" I see this as a control issue. YOu have to take care of you. YOU, wouldn't go out a fool around!! YOU, wouldn't go do something fun and not tell him what you did with complete inosence(sp?).. Nope, Sc$## that. YOU go do what you want to do. Take care of yourself. He has got to trust you as much as you have yto trust him..<P>My .02$<BR>Tex.

Steve,<BR>Thanks for your late night thoughts, buddy. It is the wierdest thing, but as nervous and afraid as I feel, at the same time I also feel quite calm and strong inside. I KNOW this is right, I KNOW it is, and this time I have to say that I need to be firm on what is in my best interest. It really hurts me to think that no one else is looking out for me, so I've GOT to do it, and it is in my best interest to have a fully committed, serious partner. We will have the best chance of learning and growing from this if we both go at it full-steam. If it's not ever going to be full-steam, I deserve to know that. It's kind of simple actually, and I am solid in my feeling that it is the brave and right thing to do.<P><BR>Your royal highness, <BR>The Ambassador sends some love your way and tells me to tell you he is doing his job every day. I like your idea about listing/charting my bottom lines and checking them every time they are violated. I think that will make it crystal clear and rather objective--especially since I am such a feeling perceiver type that objectivity is not my strong point. Anyway, this Wednesday night is supposed to be another counseling session, and my whole attitude is "wait and see". I will not project into the future, nor will I dwell on the past--I'll just see what happens Wednesday (if anything). <P>I wish more of my needs were being met too, but I am gradually learning to not have my H be my only support system, no matter how much he fusses about it. It's funny because he has told me verbatim that he does not intend to meet my ENs, but he doesn't want me to turn to friends or myself either. (Shaking head) Is it just me, or does that sound like a "fused" person talking, not a "differentiated" person!?<P>The fact is, it makes me sad, because of course I would like to be able to turn to my spouse to have my needs met. However, it is amazing what a night staring at the moon can do...or going to a concert in the park...or having my ladyfriends over for drinks by the pool (sodas!!). It's not the same as a spouse, but it's something nonetheless.<P><BR>Last but not least, Howdy Pardner!<BR>Thanks for your 2 cents--I'm almost up to a buck now! Heehee. I think you have a point about pushing the insecurity button, and I thank you for reminding me of that. What I mean is that I have backed down because of that button before, and I need to remind myself who I am and who I have become. Yes, like everyone I feel a bit afraid and unsure about the future, but heck, I'd feel that way with or without him! I am an amazing, strong, funny, secure, wise woman, and I need to remind myself of that again and again. So, thanks dude. I won't let the insecurity be a reason to cross the line again.<P>Also, I'm going to tell you something kind of smooshy here, so get ready. I am trying to build trust with this man. I am trying to act trustworthy and behave trustworthy and prove to him that I am trustworthy. I am trying to avoid even "the appearance of evil". So when I say that I think it would be a major LB, I think it would hurt him a ton and damage the trust if I were to just disappear and not tell him where I was going to be. Now, that being said, I do not intend to "sit at home by the phone" and not have a life. Heck no, but I do let him know my expected itinerary ahead of time, let him know if there's been a change of schedule, and keep my cell phone with me all the time. I think it's being considerate. <P>Whaddya think?<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited June 26, 2001).]