Hi all, I haven’t been here for sometime. Have been at the GQ11 board most of the time. Anyway I wrote this in reply to one of the posts in there but somehow this particular posting is probably more relevant here than there. Just a little background info, I was a WS and am back with my family for 5 mths already. I have been married for 9 years now. Problems with my W started about 5-6 years back. It’s wasn’t a conscience decision for me to stay in this marriage, I felt it was the right thing. Anyway, this is what I wrote in GQ11….<P>I have pushed myself to try, I have had no-contact, I am here and I think that’s a start. Would the still WSs to most of the BSs on this board even be here? When it first ended, I never posted, only read because I knew I’d be just too bias. I was very angry & would resist any advice totally at all expense. I just read and read the stuff in here. Believe it or not, I tried to put some of it in practice. We’ve talked to the cows come home too but there you go here I am. <P>I am trying to figure out now, what path should I take, what alternatives do I have. I am well aware though that 5 mths is too short a period to see any progress. I am searching inside. While some of the WSs here profess to still love their BSs, I do not. Tell me when does a marriage end? Not looking for till death or until you sign the divorce papers answers here. I was a BS too at one point, but we reconciled then because me and her wanted to. I don’t get that desire now, it’s not because I don’t want to loose her. It’s because she and the kids desperately wants it. Why? I have changed, I was separated for over 2 years, I was in Plan B before I met OW. Marriage and rebuilding was not something I toyed with in that period, I concentrated on a new life. Except for my children, I wasn’t hanging on to anything, I didn’t need to, I was happy, I was contented. We hardly argued in that period, there was no need to. That’s why it is so difficult for me. I feel as if its too late to save me and her. But something inside me screams I need to try for the kids. <P>Am I still in the fog? I don’t think I am. When I decided to get back with W, I knew what I was walking into, true enough, this is it. I am afraid to bring the topic of divorce up again, I know W will retaliate and resists completely, convincing me that I love her and all. I just can’t go through that again. <P>

I don't know when it ends, I am just curious as to why if you don't love her you are still trying and hanging on?<P>

I asked her for a divorce, she knew after being separated for 2 years, I would ask her. We've talked about it a few times during my separation, and i told her I didn't want to go there (marriage) anymore. I suppose she didn't think i would really do it. I was always cordial with her, at the times when i came stayed for the holidays and all, I was still there for the kids all the time. If ever she needed anything, I would help her, I would talk to her. But in that period there was nothing there between me and her as man and wife. Problems started years b4 i left, no affairs then (except for a fling which she had a long time ago and we both overcame), I got to a point i couldn't take it anymore. Our marriage was just dead, empty and cold. I knew if i stayed I would definitely get a divorce. So i left. <P>Anyway, when she realised i was definitely going to tell i want out, she went beserk. She was depressed, lost so much weight, didn't want to get out of bed, I was honestly worried. She begged me to stay. She's convinced that deep down i love her even though i told her i didn't. Ironic, i loved the OW and told her so many times, but she didn't believe me. She says all these years can't be just thrown down the drain, it deserved another try, she said the kids deserved another try. She said she always loved and wanted me. It didn't matter if i didn't stay for her, but i had to stay for the kids. She said she will change. She was almost flipping. What choice did i have? My kids wanted me to stay, how do i face them. I am a coward, I know that much.

Love is a decision.

Duh...You need to make that decision, too, and you won't. What exactly are you waiting for? A lightning bolt, or what? The marriage is cold and dead because you let it be. This is work, and you aren't used to it anymore.<P>I don't think you respect your wife, and that is a problem. You need to cherish her, and uphold her. If you cannot respect her, then it is over. If you don't want to respect her, it its over. Do you see the hell you continue to put her through? Do you remember it when you went through it? What could SHE have said to you then to make it better? Why won't you tell her that now?

In the strictest of terms, the marriage is over when the divorce is final. At that point, you are totally free. However, the absolute miniumum you can do and start to move on in your life (but not get involved with someone else) is after you have honestly told your spouse of your unhappiness, sought professional assistance, and if you honestly feel you have tried everything, and you have indicated to your spouse that there is no chance, and you have then filed for divorce, worked out preliminary agreements that fairly deal with the financial well-being of your spouse and children and you have moved out of the family home (or whatever arrangement has been made regarding the home), then you can start thinking about how you want to live the rest of your life and start thinking of yourself as a single-person-to-be. In other words, you have to earn your way out of your marriage, with honestly and concern for those you are leaving. Anything less is dishonorable. I also agree with many others here - no relationships until the divorce in final, at a miniumum. If you follow these guidelines, you will still feel guilty, but at least you will know that you honestly tried to minimize the damage.