<BR>My separated wife has started dating someone else,wants to<BR>"move on with her life" and file for divorce. But says she "still wants to be friends".( please see my previous post on <BR>June 26, 12:04 AM for more background)<P>It seems to me that "Plan B" is sending the message that "its over and I don't care about you anymore"). Wouldn't that make reconciliation LESS likely since they may figure " if you don't care then what's there to go back to?<P>I'm not advocating being a doormat. I have plenty of betrayal anger and pain to feel justified if I want to take the hard line.<P>However, when there are children involved, isn't it better for them to have parents who are still "friends" rather than strangers who appear not to care about each other, or enemies.<BR>What does this say about the nature of Love when the closest person in your life for over 20 years is suddenly a stranger you want nothing to do with...or even worse, an enemy?<P>Spiritually speaking, shouldn't our goal be to still have Love (of a higher, non-attached kind) for our EX (and show it) even if we don't get back together as marriage partners.<P>What do you think?<P><BR>JDH <P>

Yes, but Plan B does not preclude being friends, or showing agape love. You are just displaying indifference to the old relationship, and not pursuing. You STILL have to avoid LB behavior, and still try to fulfill some needs when you can, you just stop short of trying to manipulate her. Plan B is a procedure more than anything else. It is a plan, versus the improvisation of pursuit. You are trying to be the one that cares least, not mean.<P>My plan B is really simple: She initiates ALL contact, I end it. I always thank her for something, and I talk only lovingly, and kindly to her, and about her. That's it. Yes, I come up with a million 'justifiable' reasons to initiate contact, I just don't do it.<P>This takes time, but I have seen several times she contacted me just to contact me. She misses me, I don't doubt that, but she is still going into the fog, this is still Act I. Plan B is going to go on for 18 months, at least.<P>Don't use the children in this, keep them out of it. You are to be the best father you can, that is all. There is a very real aspect to this that they need to deal with. No, it would not be good for them if you two were enemies, that is true, but watch out when you use them to justify behavior, that's not in anyone's best interests, no matter how good it seems to your logic, which is SUSPECT in this area. (AT least, that is how I view mine, anyway.)

My understanding of Plan B is this - the no contact allows 2 things:<P>1) You force the OP to meet all of the WS's needs. While the WS has contact with both the BS and the OP, they are often "fence-sitting" because both people are each meeting some of the WS's needs. By withdrawing contact, the BS no longer meets any of the WS's needs. Now the OP must meet 100% of the WS's needs. If they can, the affair relationship will continue; if they can't, the "fog" begins to lift, and the WS will probably decide to end the affair.<P>2) Plan B allows the BS to begin to separate and focus on building their own life, apart from the WS. By having contact with the WS, they (the WS's) still have opportunities to deposit love units in the BS's bank. By halting those opportunities, the BS can begin to detach from the WS, so that if the WS does not come back to the relationship, the BS will have, over time, lost love for the WS and be more emotionally equipped to move on.<P>With young kids involved, it is impossible to limit all contact, but it should be kept on the level of whatever needs to be done in the best interests of the kids, and nothing of a personal nature. Doesn't mean you have to be mean or unkind, just uninterested. You know, if the WS really wants to come back, then the WS has a lot to do FIRST to prove that and make the BS want to re-engage. If that happens, then great!<P>Good luck, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

This is how I implement Plan B with my H, from whom I've been separated over 1 year:<P>*I only communicate with him via e-mail and only about financial stuff when necessary.<P>*If I do see him (we have no kids), I immediately go into Plan A behaviour....friendly and civil. No small talk, no love busters.<P>*I do not believe we can be "friends." A friend wouldn't do what he did to me and continue to live in adultry with another woman, disrespecting me as his wife.<P>I think you can be friendly and civil, esp. for your children's sake. No love busting. But I DO NOT believe you can be friends. That word means something and the relationship between x-spouses isn't really included in that definition, IMHO.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Ditto, Mrs. O...Can't really understand how ANYONE can expect that of us...how unrealizstic is that?<P>Do forgive...do move on...do forget. Do not condone by being friends. Can't see it...be friendly, but you needn't validate what they've done.

I'm friends with my ex....Kristin's dad.<P>We've been apart for years and years. It was the nastiest, messiest divorce between the two of us that you can imagine...The marriage was tainted by infidelity, substance abuse, physical abuse and more....<P>However, for Kristin, we stood as a unit. Together for all her activities, b-day parties - he even came over every Christmas morning from the very beginning (we separated in August) for Santa and brunch. It continued when we both began seeing others and still once Robert and I were married. I fixed a big brunch and he and guest (his mom, sis, fiance, whoever) would come and we'd have a good time. Sure the first few were tense, but it got to be rather enjoyable. Ended this past Christmas 'cause she's 17. He was invited to b-day picnics here at the house. Came to see Kristin and take her out and wound up enjoying it here so we'd fix a quick dinner. Lots of times. I absolutely adore his previous fiance - we're still friends who talk by phone rather frequently and I invite her to many of Kristin's things. She loves Kristin as well. Robert has been a part of this and supportive as well. He sees how healthy it's made our baby girl compared to some others we run into.<P>He's called me for relationship advice. I'd call him and let him know what was going on with her, emotionally, whatever. I've always purchased tickets for him (he's lived out of town for years now) for her recitals, etc and he and his guest sat with the rest of her family, including me, Robert, my mom, etc. always a united front where our daughter is concerned. ALL of us.<P>It takes a bit of doing, but it is doable. And everyone here knows that I always felt it's best for the kids. I think it's important. This person is part of them. It's never made much sense to me that you could love someone enough to spend a lifetime with them and start a family and then hate them. But that's just me.<P>I never trashed him to her. Never gave her adult details of our marriage or divorce. We had grown up problems that prevented us from living together, but I'd never hate him 'cause he helped in giving her to me. I answered questions honestly when asked, but I also told her that there were things I'd rather not discuss with her at that age. By now, she knows most everything. And it's ok.<P>They need to know it's ok to love and want to spend time with both parents. Sometimes, when there's lots of hard feelings, they feel as though they're betraying one if they actually LIKE the other and that's not fair. It's easier for them and healthier I think if they see the parents they love at least TRYING to be friendly. And it teaches them a HUGE lesson about love and forgiveness!<P>Kristin knows I love her father. Not for the problems we had, not like I love Robert, and certainly not the type of love that I'd ever want to live with him again. Neither would she....Robert is her REAL dad in her eyes. But she knows I love him for the love we once shared, for the fun we did have, for the good times that were there and for the wonderful daughter we created together. She knows how freeing it can be to forgive the bad stuff.<P>I don't know. It's different for different people. We just felt we owed that to our daughter. I know her b/f's parents separated when he was 18 months old. He's 18 now and having a hard time. I realize from his mom that they were just angry at first and only talked to each other through lawyers and family members. Problem is, when you start out like that, when do you stop? They never have. It's hard after a while for anyone to make the first move. So, at 18, with his parents living less than 2 miles apart, both with families, his dad still cannot call mom's house to talk to him. Problems happen and they STILL do not discuss them together. Very sad. Just recently, as he's trying hard to become a man, he seriously needed them to pull together - all four parents - they all love him - and they just couldn't do it. Very, very, sad.<P>Do what feels right for you.<P>Just my somewhat lengthy 2 cents!<P>Lori

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I never trashed him to her. Never gave her adult details of our marriage or divorce. We had grown up problems that prevented us from living together, but I'd never hate him 'cause he helped in giving her to me. I answered questions honestly when asked, but I also told her that there were things I'd rather not discuss with her at that age. By now, she knows most everything. And it's ok.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow, this is incredible Lori... I enjoy the vision you've created that it doesn't have to be all bad. By the way, what did you tell your daughter about the divorce? How old was she? I'm at that place where I'm not for the D but H is progessing. <P>All of you, I thank you for the permission to not HAVE to be *friends* with my stbx... it just makes him feel I'm all right with this when I'm totally not. To be friendly, yet distant... I guess I'm still trying to work this out myself. <P>WFH - I like what you say about your not initiating contact but ending the contact in a respectful way. I must think that one through... and get myself a plan for that. I think that will help me draw healthy boundaries.<P>Cheers!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

Kristin was very young, around 3, when we separated. We sat her down together and told her that mommy and daddy loved her very much but weren't very happy living with each other, so she and mommy were going to live in the brick house down the road and she would visit daddy and daddy would visit her. Whenever she wanted. And we did. Several times a week. At that age, it satisfied her. He wasn't the greatest dad ever anyway.<P>As she grew older, she heard things. She'd ask questions and I'd answer honestly, appropriate to her age. But I felt that it was PART of honesty to tell her from time to time that that was private between us and she wasn't old enough to talk to her about it. Some things, I told her to aske her dad when she saw him. I didn't want to talk behind his back. He DID do a bit of that however, and she has never forgiven him for it. I proceeded with the divorce for good and valid reasons (not so much the infidelity) and he was opposed and told her so in anger once. It was a mistake.<P>As she grew up, face it, she's no baby now, she heard specifics and asked them. We've always talked about anything. I answered honestly. People make mistakes, bad decisions. Believe it or not, most things I discussed with him first, so that he would know what I would say to her. We agreed pretty much all the time. She got the info she needed when she was ready for it and she processed it well. I'm very proud of the wonderful young woman she's become.<P>I like the answers you've been given. You have to do what's best for you and your children and only you can decide that. There's nothing in the world wrong with boundaries and dignity, I set them myself. There is something wrong with perpetual anger, I think. That only hurts you and your children. I don't see that in you at all.<P>Good luck in this journey. I've been there. You'll do fine.<P>Lori

Thanks for your thoughts, words and comments. I hope all will go as well as can be... the "conversation" is just around the corner and I want to be prepared. H says to keep it non-emotional so they don't get wrapped up in that. Feels a little dishonest to me b/c it's all very emotional. But, as I reflect, I need to give it to them bit by bit... I don't want to set him up as the one who abandoned their mother when I had my fair share in creating/causing the circumstances for him to distance himself emotionally and physically.<P>Cheers!<P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17