I am feeling so lost in the world right now. I filed for divorce last Monday, but I still love my husband or maybe I’m just scared to be without him. We have been married 7 years together for 9, no children, I’m 27 he is 29.<BR>We separated last September got back together end of October. In that time he had an affair. I wanted him back so badly that I was willing to try anything forgive anything. Read some marriage builders some Divorce as Friends website, worked on myself, took anti deps, tried to make him happy. First 3 months he treated me like crap after I’d had enough he decided to try – we both worked on it for 4 months. Everything seemed good. I had issues because he’d slept with another woman. Needed time to be able to trust. The other night after seeing his mother drunk he went out and got sloshed, came home at 4:30 am. Blamed me because I was rude to him. (I am only human). Then I went in for an operation and when I came out of hospital he left to go on holiday – insisted I not come, left without buying some food as there was none and I wasn’t allowed to drive. I told him if he leaves I may divorce him. He said he’d deal with it when he got home. Well now how do I deal with it.<BR>We talk – are friends – then argue because we both feel we are not getting what we want. Both love each other. He wants his freedom and wants to be married and have no responsibilities. It feels like he wants out of the marriage and I told him that and that is why I am filing basically. I don’t know what to do. He says he wants to be with me. Do I stop the divorce? Do I end up getting hurt again? <BR>

So sorry for what you are feeling. I am about your age, and have just gone through a similar experience. I have a few questions.<P>FIrst, what do you mean "work on yourself"? What specifically did you do?<P>Second, what do you mean by "worked on it" for four months? Again, what did you do?<P>Thirdly, what do you mean by "I tried to make him happy?"<P>You need to be able to answer these questions with certainty and specifics. Maybe write them down and BE SPECIFIC. Don't say, "I tried to make him smile." Say "I cooked him his favorite meal twice a week." <P>It sounds like he is very confused. He says he wants to be with you but acts differently. I understand this completely. If you haven't read the articles here on this site, I would recommend you do. THere is also a book entitled His Needs Her Needs. It seems simplistic and guruish, but it makes amazing sense. I have an abridged version of the audio tape too, and for weeks at a time, I would listen to it every day in the car. The point is basically this: each person has individual needs and we develop romantic love for someone based on how that person meets our emotional needs. Some include conversation, affection, sex etc. It helped me understand the concept of "trying to make someone happy," though I truly believe that is impossible. I would recommend it, especially because you made the comment about both of you not getting what you want. There is also a questionaire here that addresses this. Don't give up so easily. <P>Affairs are symptoms that needs are going unmet. While many believe that affairs are all one sided and the betrayer is the only one to blame, I firmly believe that responsibility should be taken for the environment which helped nuture the affair. That burden also falls on the betrayed. Please look closely at this. It may be as simple as you didn't make him feel important around the house. My ex had an emotional affair, and even though I was a great wife, I didn't give him the ego strokes he needed to feel attractive, smart, and capable. Sounds silly, and I held those strokes back sometimes out of frustration because I felt he was too needy. Wasn't my call.<P>I would also want to know for sure how serious his use of alcohol is. That is a big factor. It was a factor for me, and it changed ALL the rules.<P><BR>You both love each other; his conflicting behavior is confusing, but my advice would be not to file yet. You are friends and love each other. There is an amazing basis there. But you need to learn how to start meeting each other's needs as husband and wife and get back to what you had. It is entirely possible! Even though I am divorced (there were other issues there that I won't go into), I saw results as did he after being in Plan A. (That is another article you should read: Plan A and B. I don't know how to navigate this site and its tricks or I would give you a link to it directly.) Again, if you can, delay the divorce. You have expressed such love, confusion, and desire for your marriage to work. <P>I am divorced, so my perspective is a little different. You might also find some excellent support by stopping by the Emotional Needs board. But the D/D board is a valuable place to learn from people going through the process now, and there is much wisdom here. Posting on this site has helped me tons!! and as you will see, many many others. <P>Good luck and stick around. <P> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by gsd (edited June 28, 2001).]

GSD<BR>Thank you so much for your words and for being there for me even though you don't know me. He phoned me today to tell me he loves me and wants to work on the marriage. That means a lot to me. I will tell more tomorrow. I'm from South Africa so basically I will be leaving for home real soon. Thanks again.

Is he going with you or are you going to be separated for a time? <BR>

Sorry... <BR>I live in SA. Was at work, using the net from work.<P>He stayed at the house last night. Basically we just never spoke about the relationship last night, but we took out videos, it was just a relaxing night.<P>How did I try make him happy? I showed him affection where I did not before because of certain things I felt he did wrong. I cooked supper more often. I ignored his irritating little habits.<P>How serious is his drinking? I'm confused. Whenever the pressure is on he goes drinking - could be once in 3 months or after an argument. He only comes home in the early hours of the morning like 4:30 am. During this time I don't know where he is and it bothers me lots. I'm a very emotional person and get really panicky of his whereabouts. He can't seem to have a beer without getting drunk. So my conclusion with that is that he must be alcoholic. His gambling is also out of control. He gambles about 1000 a time. So if he comes back he will stop and then its as if I'm the one controlling him, and then when he decides its all my fault and he can't do anything according to him.<P>Worked on myself? Tried to be more tolerant, understanding and patient. <P>How was I not a good wife? Because I didn't know how to be a wife. I was young and didn't really like being married, hated cooking and cleaning. Wanted to meet other men felt I couldn't because I'm married. But now I feel more mature and want a relationship long term and have kids. But maybe there is no hope for our marriage.<P>Next week for 2 weeks he is working night shift. Which means I will not see him anyway. What's the use? I can't understand why he can't stand up to his bosses? It always feels like I'm the least important person on his list.<P>I'm really upset and confused. The first time we separated he did not want to reconcile, this time he is more interested. Is it because of the divorce proceedings maybe?<P>I (conveniently) forgot to mention that when we separated the first time, I heard from him that he was going on all these drinking binges etc, so I decided to phone an ex boyfriend. Someone I hadn't spoken to in 10 years! I told my H. He said it was as good as an affair. And he still justifies his affair by this! When he came back to me during the first separation I refused to give up contact with the ex boyfriend. I regret this horribly. It was just nice to know that the old boyfriend still wanted to talk to me. I broke off contact with him when my H stopped drinking when he really came back (after the affair and everything).<P>Thanks for listening...<P>

Hello again. I suppose the things that worry me the most are: 1) his drinking 2) his gambling. Both sound either like addictive behaviors or borderline. The rules are different when you are dealing with these issues. When I first met my ex, he didn't drink at all because he had struggled with alcohol as a teen. He didn't even have a beer. Then one time, he had a beer. I freaked out. He said he would never have more than just one at a time. Knowing what I know about alcoholism, I knew that was impossible. IT grew from there: then only two beers; then only one hard drink. Pretty soon he was making martinis at home in his own personal up-glass--more than one at a time every night. <P>I heard much of the same stuff you have heard, particularly the "controlling" statement. We are always seen as the controlling one. It is almost like they are children, rebelling. We are the enemy sometimes. When he is with you and stops his habits, he resents you for feeling like he lost something that he enjoys--no matter how destructive. It is just displacement. <P>SOmeone recommended to me that I attend an Al-anon meeting if they have any there. I suggest you do the same thing and fast. I haven't gone yet; I have just moved and am getting settled in. I am no longer married, but I want to find out what I did to enable his addiction or how to recover from the betrayal and resentment. Also, read any book you can on codependency, and also read Dr. HArley's article here on Codependeny and marriage--just to see the other side. There is also book called "Women WHo Love Too Much" and "Codependent No More." Also, read "Living with the Passive AGressive Man." VERY GOOD READS. <P>When I asked you what you did for yourself, you said be more tolerant and patient. Of him?? What else have you done for YOU not him. <P>I may not have "saved my marriage or him for that matter, but I feel as though I was successful in rebuilding myself. That should be your first and only focus. You will NEVER rebuild your marriage with him any other way. You have no kids. Learn what you can about boundaries, codependency, self esteem, marriage but also do ALOT of self-exploration. Plan A continually, and look VERY carefully at your behavior that helped "cause " the affair. (I hate putting it that way, but I am at a loss for another word.)<P>One more thing, more nights like last night are good. DOn't talk about things too much. Those relaxing evenings are good ways to make him and you feel good about each other. <P>Hang in there!!

Hey there GSD<BR>Thanks for being a friend even though you are so far away it is so great having someone try to understand me and where I’m coming from.<BR>On Friday on the phone he told me he had decided he no longer wants the marriage. He will rent a room from me but is no longer interested in me until I have worked on myself. (Like fixed the controlling side etc etc).<BR>This after having spoken to the therapist!! The therapist 2 days prior had told me my H is not such a bad person and there are worse out there and I should think about it. So I did and Friday I wanted to spend time with him like we did on Thursday, but then I got this shocking news. He blew me away! (The therapist recommended he end the marriage) I got so emotional – cried, begged, bargained, and pleaded to no avail. Then he told me that he had been in touch with an old school friend (a girl but never a girlfriend), who he had always liked as more than a friend. Wow! I asked him if the OW knew about our divorce, and he said she did. After that I told him to leave then.<BR>On Saturday at about 8pm he calls and tells me he is missing me. This – after I’d gone through a day trying to accept that things were over! Anyway I let him come over but told him I don’t want to talk. Went to sleep shortly after him getting there. Sunday we spoke. He is still trying to bargain with me, like he will come up with he wants to fish all the time then he will not drink. I am so irritated. I tried to find out more about the OW. Found out she is 21!! S*&% I will have her for breakfast, takes all the glory out of one day pulling her to pieces for what she did. She also has a child. Apparently she has same colouring and body as mine! I told him not to ever compare me to her as I am nothing like the little s#$t. <BR>Anyway he has left again.<BR>I went to town on Saturday and it felt like every one out there is a couple. And I felt so insecure! I’m 28 and I might never fall in love again… Its lonely and difficult. I don’t think I had a part in his affair. I am quite a sexual person and did not reject him if he wanted me, but that was pretty seldom. Yet he tells me I am attractive. I wanted to die on Friday, just lie down and die. Ever felt like that. It’s a physical pain inside your heart that pains so much and the only way to make it go away is to have the one you love hold you. I’m feeling better than that now though.<BR>Thanks for being here for me.<BR>

(((Pantha)))<P>I am so sorry. I know exactly the feeling you have; your post made me cry. My ex left me "for" a friend of his who was 18! I am 28 myself and was physically ill when I found out. Of course I found out after we filed for divorce, but suspected it all along.<P>I am suprised that his therapist would suggest that he give up on the marriage. You need to be in counseling together too. I don't know what to say other than his floundering (and yours) make this confusing for both of you. In a matter of a week or two, you have both changed your minds a total of (I think) 5 times! I can't make him do anything, but I do know that you have also been in contact with an old friend. Whatever you do, stay far away from any contact--including friendly contact--with him or another male friend. You are too vulnerable and scared right now and it could be confusing to your emotions.<P>Secondly, would he agree to go to counseling with you? I don't know if I would trust either 1) his counselor or 2) him for interpreting the counselor's suggestion correctly. I cannot imagine a counselor giving that kind of advice, but anything is possible.<P>As far as the other girl is concerned, all you can do is tell him how it makes you feel in the least controlling way possible. Hard, because it all sounds like controlling to him. I wish I could help you more there, but that was always a sticking point to me as well. They have to see what they are doing themselves.<P><BR>I am confused about the bargaining stuff, but it sounds like the Policy of Joint Agreement might be something you want to share with him. It is about compromising and deal making, in a sense. He seems to have some concrete ideas about what he wants. Listen to what he has to say and go from there. <P><BR>Finally, your last paragraph hit home for me. I am 28 too, and have had the exact same fear. You MUST deal with the insecurity! Make that your focus instead of focusing all your energies on the marriage. It does look bleak and like everyone else is happy. I felt the same way, and I have found someone very special. BUT do NOT make that your worry. If you worry too much about ending up alone, you most surely will...or unhappy all over again. But don't worry that far in advance. You are still married and trying to rebuild that, yes? Again, don't get ahead of yourself and worry about things that will only hurt you. <P><BR>

Hi there GSD<BR>I have broken the contact with the old boyfriend. I can’t even think of being his friend now, I have nothing to offer emotionally. I do have another guy friend that is much younger than me, but is truly only a friend. He helped me out when I needed it after the operation. He is a great comfort, but that is all.<BR>I did confront the therapist on the phone yesterday evening and he said he did not tell my H to end it, so when H phoned later I told him, and he said he did not say that, that I had decided that.<BR>All I can tell you now is that I have to divorce him. I know I should try, but he just isn’t the same person I fell in love with. My brothers (who would not say things to purposefully hurt me) told me things about him. Like him going to strip shows and basically bragging about it to them. Then my brother said the other day when he went with my H to his work, my H was on the phone to some woman and he said “are u new here? Because u have such a sexy voice”. This in front of my brother, what does he do when my brother is not around? This makes me feel not good enough and hurt, but I realise it is him at fault and it doesn’t make me a lesser person. But it is difficult to rationalise that. There are other things. Anyway he put the phone down on me. Then phoned back later but I missed the call and chose not to phone back. His phone is on voice mail again. This is his way of controlling that I don’t phone him. My lawyer said he will have the summons ready today, so that brings the finality closer. I think I need that, closure… Oh he wanted my email address to send me something from his heart he said. I asked if it was to get together, or be nasty and he said no, just something he has realised and it may help me. Oh! Anyway he never sent it. But when I confronted him about what my brother said he said he told my brother that she had a nice voice! I asked him if he can promise that is how it happened and he said he could. He would promise to God. This man is a compulsive liar, I think he even believes himself. <BR>I feel like screaming to get rid of the frustration, anger, sadness, everything. Divorce is an ugly thing - that I have realised – there is no easy way to do it. It is my birthday next week… I have to figure out how to spend it, can’t be on my own, and my mom is an hours drive away. I feel like such a failure for this having come about. <BR>I am glad that u have found someone special. I hope that you will have a life time of happiness with him. It gives me hope that you have made it and survived and are out there living your life. Do you know that you are a wonderful person? Thanks for the taking the time out of your life to listen and help.<BR>

Thank you for your kind words. Glad to know I can help a teeny bit.<P>Having said that, I again reiterate my point from before: you (and your ex--but we can't control him so lets look at you) have changed your mind over the past week like a whirlwind. IMHO, you are making a very quick decision to divorce--a very very final thing. Not separate, seek counseling, etc. but divorce. That I think needs revisiting. Your own floundering about this issue and why you cannot make up your mind needs to come first and foremost before you think about another relationship. I suspect that you are in a hurry to "make up your mind" because it is easier and quicker to find happiness that way and maybe a new love. You don't like the loneliness. Believe me, I know. I went to therapy for anxiety over it a while ago. You said about your birthday: "can't be alone." I understand. Try to keep busy with something. And if you are alone, do something very special for you. It may be the best birthday present you can give yourself.<P>You cannot understand, change, fix, or recreate what your H says or does in regards to ANYTHING. Stop worrying about him. Worry about yourself; get your patience back. Don't make rash decisions. Time is a wonderful healer--of the self mostly. He is a liar? Can you change that? No, but you can change how you react to his lies--how upset you get, how you treat him, how it controls and affects your moods. He drinks too much? Can you change that? Probably not. Etc etc. <P>Yes, I am involved with someone else. He is wonderful, caring, grounded, and I love him dearly. He is a precious friend to me as well. I don't know where our futures will take us. But he is NOT the prize at the end of the rainbow. <P>I will say this again because I worry about your impulsiveness: go to an AL-anon meeting or a CoDA meeting if they have them. Journal. Take a break from him that involves no other man (I know you know this). And read what else is on this board. Read other people's posts here too. There is sooooo much wisdom here. Just take your time. You (we) are young. There is too much we will miss if we rush ourselves! <P>Finally, you are NOT a failure. I know it seems like you are. I felt the same way!! It takes time to realize that even though we sometimes fail, we are not failures. (Yuck--not meant to sound like a cheesy high school poster.)<P>Hang in there. And keep posting here and in other places too.<BR>

I need to write how I’m feeling right now, because I can’t deal with the emotions I’m feeling. The sheriff should be delivering the summons to my H today! I was thinking about it now, and thought I need to speak to H, to make sure… But his phone is off. Maybe that’s a good thing… I am sure that this is what I have to do, for my own sanity. But I am hurting so much right now. I just want the pain to go away. I have thought about my marriage and the happy times have been few… we have been going in circles for years… there was still hope then… but this changed man I no longer recognise nor can I relate to him… <BR>I am sitting here at work, can’t concentrate, would love to cry, would love to run away. Would like someone to rescue me from everything. When I know that I’m the only one who can rescue me… For a moment I thought I could phone him and everything would be alright, but I know it won’t. Its about promises that get broken time and again, its about deceit, its about selfishness… <BR>

(((((Pantha)))))<P>I know it is hard to deal with the broken promises and lies. I can't believe how similar your feelings and circumstances are to mine. The going in circles, the deceit, the mirage. There was little I recognized about my ex in later years as well--attributed, I think now, to his drinking. But that is neither here nor there.<P>The pain will go away. It takes a long time, but it goes away a little each day. I still cry sometimes, maybe not for my ex per se, but mourning the loss of my marriage and dreams. Sometimes I miss him. I think I always will. At least what he was. <P>Take things one day at a time. Trust me when I say that tomorrow will get better. I have been there. <P>Hang in there, and I am thinking of you.<P>

Thanks for being here GSD.<BR>I'm in such pain... why is today harder? I don't know. I'm thinking if I don't call him he will go to her. If I do call him he has already been with her. Do I want to know? I want to hear his voice and just feel ok for a while. Last night he came around unannounced, for his cell phone charger. I told him he can't just pop around without calling first. He said his phone was dead. OK. I said 'another thing... just leave me a lone' then I went inside, and never looked back. The hardest thing to do. When all I wanted was him to hold me, when all I wanted to do was hold him. But all the other emotions are still there and the problems are still there, and the comfort of being together is not going to remove those problems. I am going to phone him (when I can reach him) and just say Hi. sigh...<BR>

Today is harder than yesterday, tomorrow will be easier, and the next day will suck rocks. It just is like that. Eventually the waves die down.<P>I understand the desire to talk to him, but pay attention to the mixed signals you may be sending to him. He is being served with papers, and you are going to say hello. That would knock me over. You don't sound like a woman who wants a divorce from this man. Just to make the pain stop. Divorce does not stop pain. It causes a whole set of new problems. Remember that. <P>Hang in there.<P>morristhecat72@hotmail.com<BR>

GSD - I like your email address!! Are u a cat person? My favourite type of people!!<BR>I know I shouldn't phone him, but... <BR>You are right - I don't want a divorce. But I don't want to go through this in 7 months time again. I remember the first separation was so painful I couldn't survive without anti deps. I would go home sit in front of TV and then sleep. What's different now? I read, trying out hobbies, and trying to accept things the way they are. I don't know whether I am being successful at that today.<BR>When is your birthday? Are u a Cancerian too? (just being curious)

Actually my birthday is today. Yup, good ole Cancer. Probably, in my opinion, the best sign in the zodiac, but I am not biased or anything. <P>No, I am definitely not a cat person. Actually, my screen name, gsd, stands for German Shepherd Dog. I had three dogs until I had to move now I have two. I train them and they are my hobby. So I am a dog person through and through. The email address is a nickname.<P>Anyway, quick response. I need to go visit my mother and then my birthday "celebration" begins. (See my other post). I remember. There was infidelity and the like, and I know it was so painful. What is wrong with anti deps? Take them if you have to. I think it might be good for you right now. At least maybe an anti anxiety med if your doctor will give it to you.<P>One thing I will share. My ex was convinced that he didn't love me anymore, didn't want to be with me, and that I had changed. He didn't even like me at times. Our marriage had deteriorated and his views of marraige being a fairy tale romance forever was not a reality. The feeling just wasn't there. His word: chemistry. No chemistry. Even denied ever having any, which I knew was a crock. 4 months after the divorce was final and he was living out of state with his new girlfriend, he started calling me, basically to say that he regretted the way he handled things. He regretted what he considered to be a weak reason for leaving without trying. He regretted leaving the woman that he loved so much. He didn't want to come home; that would have been too difficult. Basically, he said he regretted the "impulsivity" of it all. He acted on instincts and feelings, not faith, hope, love, committment. (THese are his words, not mine). I felt pity for him, and melancholy because so much damage had been done in those four months and in the months since he had moved out. He gets further and further away from my heart with each passing day, and while that is healthy and good in some respects because my life must continue, I still feel like a horrible tragedy has occured. Two people with so much love in their hearts for each other. It should never, ever have happened. And I still grieve and cry even today. <P>Take care. <P>(((Pantha)))

GSD: Hope u had a great day yesterday!! <BR>I have a GS dog too! She is lovely! Also I have a little dog and 2 cats, so I’m generally an animal person, but I’m more a cat lover.<P>Sounds like your X knows that he has made a big mistake. I hope that the hurt that you are feeling lessens, I think it is the same as grieving for a person that one loses to death.<P>I’m not sure what I’m doing with my life. Or more like I’m not sure what to do. On the one hand I want a divorce, I want freedom and a release from the hurt of the marriage and on the other hand I just want to be in the relationship without the problems. <BR>He came over last night. We talked about things. Then he said he is going, and I asked if he is running away and he said getting away from the situation. So I said I don’t want to talk anymore either, that he could stay and watch movies with me. So he did. Well we got ‘intimate’, he made the move and well…<BR>Anyway before that we concluded that we would go to marriage counselling and I’d put the divorce on hold for a while.<BR>Well we are going this afternoon as luck would have it there was a cancellation otherwise we could only have gone on 20 July. I am so scared. I feel very negative, like this is going to take too much of my energy. I’m a little hopeful but lose that when I think of reality. <BR>I suggested something stupid to him, but that is how I feel. I want to divorce him, but live together! Why would I feel like that? To protect myself? To give him his freedom? To sever ties with him? I don’t know, just feels like I could handle that. He says if we do divorce the bond is broken. So here we are…<BR>He also keeps saying ‘… if there wasn’t the divorce…’, sort of putting the blame on me, so I said ‘…if u didn’t desert me..’ , I told him its easy to lay blame… <BR>I asked him what is different from this separation than the last. He didn’t know. I asked if he thought we’d built up something in the last few months. He said yes we had. Why don’t I feel like we have, even though that is what I was trying to do.<BR>What do I say at the counselling session? Do I let all my emotions out? Do I speak about how the affair affected me? Do I say how hurt I am, how I don’t trust him at all? Do I let my negativity show or do I pretend I’m all positive?<BR>

Pantha-<P>Have been very busy this week. But I have thought of you. I am glad you went to counseling. I am sure the counselor led you in the direction he wanted you to go as far as what was to be discussed. <P>I understand your need to be free of the problems and release from the pain. But I am going to be blunt. You can't be lazy. You sound in a hurry to erase the pain, start fresh, and not be alone. Bottom line: those feelings do NOT go away, and often times, relationships that happen immediately following a divorce are painful reminders that we need time--a lot of time--to heal. Listen to anyone on this board and they will tell you that: DanaB, Sue, 711. Even me. I don't even live in the same STATE as the person I am involved with and though I miss him, I have plenty of "me" time to reflect, heal, and grow as an individual. Any new relationship will eventually take the same amount of work, just maybe in different ways. If you want a divorce to escape work, problems, energy expenditures, you are a fool.<P>That said, try to keep the hope. You got an appointment two weeks early; you love him; he loves you; he agreed to counseling (more than I can say for my ex). HE feels there has been progress. That is encouraging. <P>Let me know how it went.<P>(((((Pantha))))))

Gsd<BR>thank you for your support and wise words.<BR>Unfortunately I have made the decision to get out of the marriage. I know that one day if I get involved with someone new it will be a lot of hard work, but at least it will not come with the current baggage that my marriage has now. I will not repeat mistakes made. Thank you for all your support, I wish my marriage could have worked, but with someone like my H I don't think it is possible. There is no more room in my heart for him and I will start rebuilding my life. One day he will wake up and smell the coffee... hopefully...<P>Thanks again<BR>Panth

I just saw this post. I responded on your other thread. I am sorry. Your ex sounds a lot like mine, minus all the cheating, but plus the lies, unreliability, and drinking. But nevertheless, life with someone like that is exhausting and often fruitless. It will work out, and you'll be fine.<P>(((pantha)))<P>