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#694822 06/28/01 03:04 PM
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See my prior post in infidelity-Just Found Out and Plan A/B.-lost love and I have tapes. For the second time in one week she has asked for divorce. I have appt. w/attorney tomorrow. I just can't take anymore of the lies and betryal. I do love her and would like to work things out. I have confronted her with the facts and she tells me I'm crazy, its all in my mind, they are just friends. I hurt so much for my kids ages 16 and 8. I cant understand how my wife can do this to our family. She doesnt seem to care. I have tapes of her talking to OM telling him how much she loves him and about them doing it and arranging meetings. I think im going to let her hear some excerpts from the tapes and see if she still thinks Im crazy. Im really bummed out about this and would do anything to save my marriage and family. However I dont feel one person can do it alone. She refuses to go to counselling or work on our marriage. I'm actually left with no alternative but divorce. Im so tired of being depressed, hurt, and betrayed. The one person who you trusted with everything is not trustworthy after all. That is pain. I have tried the plan a/b stuff and it only seems to strengthen their relationship. My sole role at this time is financial security. Im open to ANY suggestions. Thanks.

#694823 06/28/01 05:08 PM
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<B>For the second time in one week she has asked for divorce.</B><BR>So? Is she expecting you to file? Let her do it if she wants it.<P><B>I think im going to let her hear some excerpts from the tapes and see if she still thinks Im crazy.</B><BR>Bad idea. She will still deny it.<P><B>I'm actually left with no alternative but divorce.</B><BR>Why do you say that?<P><B>Im so tired of being depressed, hurt, and betrayed.</B><BR>I guess all of that goes away with a divorce?<P><B>Im open to ANY suggestions.</B><BR>At this point don’t do ANYTHING! If she wants a divorce, let her file.<BR>I know you are hurting. It’s okay to hurt. Take care of yourself. Get lots of rest & exercise. Eat good meals. This is essential as your emotional state is messed up.<BR>Wait & see what she does.<BR>Plan A & read everything here. Post questions as you have them.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

#694824 06/28/01 05:25 PM
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I agree that if your wife wants a divorce and you don't, she should be the one to file. However, I think you <I>should</I> play her the tapes. She may or may not continue in denial, but either way she will <I>know</I> that her affair is out in the open, and that knowledge will place greater pressure on her relationship with the OM since it won't be so easy for her to compartmentalize her life.<BR>

#694825 06/29/01 01:24 AM
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GDP...you are my hero, man...I'm not kidding, but I'm going to have to part company with you on this one. The entire idea of making them is pursuit with a capital p, and the thought of using it in court is not attractive to me. A WAW is NOT the enemy, until you make them so. Yes, they are spinning out of control, not responsible, etc. but I have never heard of these tactics doing anything other than cementing the D, and killing any chance at future reconciliation. You WILL not make her 'answerable', no matter what you do. They HAVE to come to this of their own accord, just like they started out. It is imperative that you NOT try to control them. I wouldn't try to take a pork chop from a pit bull, either, but that's just me.

#694826 06/29/01 06:56 AM
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Hmmm, <B>Waiting</B> ~<P>No, I think Gnome's point was very valid. It's not manipulative or controlling, or trying to "make" a spouse answerable for an affair ~ it is simply introducing a little reality into the situation. It's like a dose of penicillin!<P>Dr. Harley talks about the affair beginning to die a natural death, once the affair is known. Secrecy is the biggest enabler in these circumstances.<P>I can tell you that in my situation ~ my H denied everything. He knew that I knew, in fact, we had several D-Days where I discovered hard fast proof that there was on going affair. Even in the face of hard evidence, he denied and denied and denied. He told me that the OW was crazy and pursuing him and had every excuse in the book.<P>BUT, his affair started to come tumbling down, when I discovered dozens of emails between him and his OW. I took those emails to his family and said "I love you all dearly, but this is why I have to divorce your son. I know you love me, and you love your grandchildren, and I won't ever keep them from knowing you, but I can no longer continue in this marriage."<P>Denial is an artform in his entire family. But these emails shocked them all into reality. They went to my H, and told him what they had read.<P>And that was the beginning of the end. There was no more pretending that the OW was pursuing him or stalking him, or all the other excuses that he had. It was there in black and white, exactly what was going on. <P>He broke it off with the OW 2 months later. <P>Now, granted, in his alcoholic booze fog, he's gone back to her and dated other women, and done all kinds of other stupid stuff. But the key to all of it is secrecy. He only stops doing what he is doing when family discovers proof that he's the jerk that he's pretending not to be.<P>Even his relationship with the OW has never been the same. He keeps running back to her like a dog to its own vomit ~ but he knows that there is no future, his family will never tolerate him bringing her home to them - they've told him so flat out.<P>Its the knowledge his own family has of his actions, that keeps him running back to me, begging for more chances. One of the things that he wrote to me recently included a panic striken line about his family never talking to him again.<P>Now, saying all this, I hadn't found MB when I took the emails to his family. I was struggling to get a grip on reality myself. Telling his family what was going on was a major Love Buster - BUT, I don't know that it was a bad thing. I should have asked Steve Harley about it later, but never got around to it.<P>So I don't think introducing a little reality to the situation is control or manipulation, or even trying to make someone 'answerable'. That's only the case if you have set yourself up as judge, jury and arbiter of justice. Simply pointing out that "Geez honey, if you are not having an affair, how do you explain this conversation?" is not manipulation.<P>It's a good question I think for the Harley's - some situations it might be warranted, others possibly could drive the person further away.<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

#694827 06/29/01 11:07 PM
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I understand all of that, I just don't believe that having it come so directly, and DISHONESTLY from the BS serves any purpose that supports the goal of reconciliation, and it is DISHONEST ANYWAY, no matter what your ultimate goal is. The affair is enough dishonesty between two people in a supposed monogamous relationship. It smacks of the standoff/impasse that led to it. In other words, its OR stuff STILL. The WAS has stated most emphatically that they want the OR dead, gone, and that is actually a good idea. I think the affair needs to come to light by THEIR doing, it is their iniquity, and besides it is not hidden from God, nor are the BS's actions, either. That's my point, I guess I fail to make it very well. Sorry for that.<p>[This message has been edited by waiting_for_her (edited June 29, 2001).]

#694828 06/29/01 11:47 PM
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Austin,<BR>I'm really sorry for your pain, I know what you're going through. In my case I have to admit that forcing the issue made it all worse. Even when confronted with hard evidence showing that I knew what was going on my ex-wife still denied the whole thing telling me I was crazy. She asked for the divorce and thinking it was the last act I could do to make her happy I complied and filed. I regret filing now, but the reasons I did was 1) hoping to bluff her out on it and 2) to financially protect myself. I didn't realize till later that the same thing can be accomplished just by filing for a legal separation, something to consider if the financial part is what concerns you most. Best wishes and remember your children will need you more than ever in the coming days ahead.<BR>Jax.<BR>

#694829 06/30/01 12:48 AM
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Austin,<BR> My heart is with you. Reading what the others have advised about confrontation sounds prudent, but Bramblewood makes sense too. I too am going through dealing with lots of lies and betrayal. After trying everything I could think of to change my H's mind for the past 1 1/2 yrs of a seperation that I did not want, I have thrown in the towel. And I pray I am doing the right thing. While my husband has no problem with cheating (he says its OK because being seperated is not really married).<BR>I finally decided that standing by and doing nothing was telling him his behavior is acceptable and the hurt is just neverending. I am married but there is only 1 married person in this couple. I decided that I could not accept this arrangement or get over the pain without taking back some control of my life. So I filed for a divorce that I do not want. But I also don't want to live in an arrangment where my H thinks so little of my feelings and has so little respect for me. Does your W say why she won't file? Does she think your marriage has hope or does she just not want to be inconvenienced by the process? My STBXH made me think for a long time that he might change his mind and want to work on our relationship. But now I know that he just didn't want to spend the time and money on the divorce process. (It's alot more fun to spend your money going on trips with your new Honey). And I worry I am doing the wrong thing. I still love my H. But I've finally realized he doesn't love me. How long do you wait to see if they snap out of it? The longer my situation went on, the less I thought of myself. For the first 9 months I did everything to be the wife, friend and lover that he said he wanted. And I'm glad I did because now I don't have to look back and say "What if I'd only...." But then I started to feel manipulated and taken advantage of as he started pursuing other women and lying to me.<BR>Going to the Attorney was so hard. I have 2 children too and their family is being destroyed. But what are our choices? 1. Let their relationship continue and hope that she starts respecting the marriage someday and the other relationship dies. 2. Confront them. I think the guys are right that when you tell someone they can't do something, it often just makes it more desirable. 3. Get on with your life and use the information you have to help make sure you do the best you can for your children and you in the settlement process. I'm hoping this can be done without becoming the enemy. (I'm trying to be fair, but I am going to make sure my kids get what they need). <BR>Do your kids know about her behavior? I've got teenagers and they have very definate ideas about right and wrong. It's so hard to try to be compassionate and also teach them that some behaviors are just WRONG.<BR>I'll be praying for you and your children.<P>Character is what you do when no one is watching.<BR>SoSad.59<p>[This message has been edited by SoSad.59 (edited June 30, 2001).]

#694830 07/01/01 06:04 AM
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On a practical note...<P>If your tapes are of phone conversations between your spouse and OP, realize that obtaining them is a criminal offense (unless done thru legal channels, such as a PI). Either your spouse or OP can press charges [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Having done that myself, I used the quotes from the tapes to let my WS know what I knew, then destroyed the evidence [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

#694831 07/01/01 08:47 AM
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austin,i caught my wife on tape also.she still denies that they were anything but spiritual friends.her family all know whats going on.they support me.i have told her that unless she stops her affair we are finished.it hurts but not half as bad as thimnking about them together.om has wife and young child.hang in there it gets better when you control what happens to you and let her do what she is going to do.good luck

#694832 07/02/01 02:01 PM
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Yea, your right Ig. This weekend I confronted her with the tapes. No real response.Just shock as she knows what she said. I have to admit tapes did hurt me but the truth finally came out. I also gave her a copy of divorce papers Im filing today. She is totally freakin' out. Its about time she had a dose of reality. She is realizing how good she actually had things. Despite what shes done I still love her. If she were to approach me right I might even forgive her. But, thats up to her. Unless there is remorse and commitment to our marriage Im thru.

#694833 07/02/01 03:04 PM
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Austin, I just finished reading your lengthy post on JUST FOUND OUT. And was very surprised you will be running to the attorney's office today. I hope you get this and STOP!! <P>Your children, your wife and marriage and your own well being are in great danger. Divorce WILL NOT fix anything it will crush your children. Your a husband and a father. Don't throw it away. Your wife may be living a lie but she will awaken. <P>Divorce is a very bad mistake. Get rid of the Lawyer and get hold of the knowlwege of the Maker of marriage the Maker of Man, Woman and families. You don't have time right know to search out God's knowledge on your own and you can't save you family on your own that's why it feels hopeless...SET YOUR FEELINGS ASIDE!! Rest on the unfailing Word of our Creator. Think about it your wife probalby was doing what felt good or right to her flesh...SHE WAS WRONG. She shold have run awy her feelings were lying to her!! And yours are lying to you now.<P>Stop the Divorce, I know your wife (and children) WILL...be so thankful that you did not cast her aside, but instead you held fast to your vows even thought she hurt you. This is the "For Worse" that you vowed not to forsake her!! Hold on to the intigrity of your word...regardless of how your wife behaves. Take your focus oof of her and her behaviors. Open up communcation with your Creator, He knows you, your wife and your situation better then anyone! Go to Him, He loves you and wants to see you all of this work for good in your life...tell Him you love Him and you want to know what His purpose is for your life! <P>Because you don't have time to learn the Word on your own I encourage you to go directly to <A HREF="http://www.restorem.org" TARGET=_blank>www.restorem.org</A> and purchase ALL the men's material. Get rid of the Lawyer. Even if you gave him the papers today it is not to late. Do you think it is conicidence that you posted on this web site and that I would feel such urgency to tell you this! <P>Don't move toward the further destrucion of your family. Take your eyes off of what you wife is doing. Get out your bible out, blow the dust off of it and get in to the Word!! <P>STOP THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS...IT is not too late. <P>Its easy to hope against what the World tells you is an impssible situation when you are trusting God. You can do this with Him! <P>O Hevenly Father set it in Austin's Heart to turn his life , wife, marriage and children over to you to care for. Help him to recognize that he does not have the abilty apart form you to tear his Family from the grips of our enemy. Lord, soften this man's heart and turn it back to his wife and children. Show him Lord that you are a God of impossible situations and nothing is impossible with You. We hope against hope in the face of what looks to be impossible! <P>Please, Austin. Open the eyes and ears of your heart. Take to heart what I post here. I beleive your marriage can be better then ever that you can bless your children with a restored family. You can give them a legacy and heritage of a whole, complete family forever. You can do this. I beleive in you and our Lord that this will be done...better then you can dream or invision...<P>Take back your family...don't let the enemy win the souls of your wife and children!! Don't let your heart become bitter and resentful toward your one flesh mate the wife of your youth!! I know you desire to grab her and your chldiren and shield them form this awful offense...I'm telling you it can be done...Trust our Creator for the desires of your heart. <P>You have an incredible opportunity to see your family WIN WIN WIN and to be a light to other families who are stumbling in the pain and darkness of infidelity. <P>This light could reach to your grandchildren....protecting them from the destrucion of your children's marriages. There is so much at stake...please call off the divorce and immediately get the information from the <A HREF="http://www.restorem.org" TARGET=_blank>www.restorem.org</A> web site. I hate to do this but...I will be praying that you will not receive rest until you have turned the tide of the destructive force of divorce unleased by the enemy on your family...YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TAKE BACK YOUR FAMILY!! Find out what it is and how to use it!!<P>You love her and no matter what she says she loves you. Do not let the fact that she is decieved by what the World has to offer to also decieve you. <P>I write out of a heartfelt concern for your family. The Word says "the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He Himself being the savior of the body." From Ephesians Chapter 5<P>Austin, you are the savior of the body, you are placed in a position the reflects Christ's postion to the church. Christ is the Savior of the Church. According to the Word you are the head of your wife and the savior of the body...the body is your family. This is an incredible responsiblity...Don't Give up your family...you are it's savior. Ask your Heavenly Father "HOW?, LORD" Cry out to him to help you save your children and your children's children....Restore this family Lord. For Your Glory we CLAIM IT RESTORED!!! <P>Austin, take a deep breath, call on the Lord and go to the <A HREF="http://www.restorem.org" TARGET=_blank>www.restorem.org</A> web site...<P>DO NOT SHARE THIS POST OR THE WEB SITE WITH YOUR WIFE THIS IS BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR MAKER. YOUR WIFE CAN NOT HELP YOU. SHE IS DECEIVED. You are her only hope and protection. Dwell on the lovely times, call to mind the many ways you are exhilerated by her love and don't let the hope and plans of a future be stolen away from you.<P>I post out of sincere concern for your family, Mrs. A <P>

#694834 07/02/01 03:09 PM
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Just a note from the "other" side of this sad story. I was the one "caught". My husband had tapes, and lots of other really embarassing things. I denied everything at first also - I guess that's just a defense mode that you go into when you're hit in the face with the reality of that magnitude. I would suggest that you don't play her the tapes - just let her know that you have evidence that has really upset you to hear. With me, I was upset because of loosing the other guy - plus I was very mad at my husband for being the one to break us up. I know now that that whole cycle wasn't healthy, but it was my first impulse. <P>------------------<BR>

#694835 07/03/01 10:21 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Austin:<BR><B>See my prior post in infidelity-Just Found Out and Plan A/B.-lost love and I have tapes. For the second time in one week she has asked for divorce. I have appt. w/attorney tomorrow. I just can't take anymore of the lies and betryal. I do love her and would like to work things out. I have confronted her with the facts and she tells me I'm crazy, its all in my mind, they are just friends. I hurt so much for my kids ages 16 and 8. I cant understand how my wife can do this to our family. She doesnt seem to care. I have tapes of her talking to OM telling him how much she loves him and about them doing it and arranging meetings. I think im going to let her hear some excerpts from the tapes and see if she still thinks Im crazy. Im really bummed out about this and would do anything to save my marriage and family. However I dont feel one person can do it alone. She refuses to go to counselling or work on our marriage. I'm actually left with no alternative but divorce. Im so tired of being depressed, hurt, and betrayed. The one person who you trusted with everything is not trustworthy after all. That is pain. I have tried the plan a/b stuff and it only seems to strengthen their relationship. My sole role at this time is financial security. Im open to ANY suggestions. Thanks.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Hello...I think I may be able to shed a tiny bit of light on your situation. But wont share anything where its not wanted...ball's in your court!<P><P>------------------<BR>

#694836 07/03/01 02:22 PM
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Chipmunk,<BR><B>ball's in your court!</B><BR>Austin said, “Im open to ANY suggestions. Thanks.“ He already asked for help<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

#694837 07/03/01 04:22 PM
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Let me know chipmunk. Any light would be appreciated. The latest today is that she asked me what are WE gonna do. I told her I already made my decision. Im kinda putting the ball in her court. What does she want to do. She has told me that her A is over with the OM. Well Ive heard that before. A matter of trust or lack of exist. Last night she was looking at house books and asked me if I would go look at some houses w/her. I told her I would. I think she is one CRAZY and irational person at this time. I dont think she likes the dose of reality that I have presented her with. Let me hear your thoughts.


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