You are the most enigmatic people I know--I love it! You're like a huge puzzle, and I keep finding pieces in the funniest places (like under the couch cushions)!!<P>So, let me be the first to ask: What is it that you have always wanted to do?<P><BR>CJ<P><BR>P.S. Thanks for your lopsided, half hug. I'm grinning from ear to ear!! <P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

What has two wheels and a four-stroke engine?<BR>

A guy on a skooter with three girls--what's your point?<P> <P>BTW, I owe you a big one, bud. You are INTP and I am INFP, so I can sorta speak your language and get what you're saying, right? Well, my hubby is ESTP and when we talk together it's like French and Russian--only with a lot more spitting and cursing (heehee). Anyway, we read your posts on my "Really Hurting" thread, and (Saints be Praised) I understood what you were saying and you understood what he was doing. Thanks for the "assist"!!!<P>CJ

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>A guy on a skooter with three girls--what's your point?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gee, I hadn't thought about the "chick magnet" effect. Does that still work, I wonder?<P>My point? Oh, about 7, I think.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>BTW, I owe you a big one, bud. You are INTP and I am INFP, so I can sorta speak your language and get what you're saying, right? Well, my hubby is ESTP and when we talk together it's like French and Russian--only with a lot more spitting and cursing (heehee). Anyway, we read your posts on my "Really Hurting" thread, and (Saints be Praised) I understood what you were saying and you understood what he was doing. Thanks for the "assist"!!!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know, if your husband can appreciate the value of a third-party pattern-detector-and-translator, then he should be able to appreciate the value of a counselor. 'Cause it seems to me that that's mostly what they do...<BR>

Chick magnet? Does that still work?<P>DEFINATELY!!!! You'll be bad to the bone <P>Regarding the counselor thing...well from your mouth to God's ear! I wish (sigh). <P>So, if you still have this one dream left, what has kept you from fulfilling it? High insurance premiums, or some other equally conservative reason? Come on, man--be a little wild! Start with a go-ped! <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>So, if you still have this one dream left, what has kept you from fulfilling it? High insurance premiums, or some other equally conservative reason?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Primary and sufficient reason: My wife disapproved, and it was a very rare occasion that I went against her wishes.<P>Secondary reason: A significant portion of my discretionary income was required to support my wife's interests and activities, since she was too busy pursuing said interests to earn the necessary income herself.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Come on, man--be a little wild! Start with a go-ped!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, I guess that would be a <I>little</I> wild. But if I'm going to be wild, why not pull out all the stops? Do they make Harleys with training wheels?<BR>

Yes--it's a different we-site though, called "Date Builders." <P>or <P>Well--maybe the older generation has wheels, but I'm pretty sure the kids are still able to walk around and don't need wheels. <P><BR>Okay, in real life you are no longer inhibited by your wife's disapproval OR her interests and hobbies (lucky you!), so why don't you get a nice, decent little Harley? Say a 883 Hugger? That's a cute little four-stroke, five speed I think you'd like. Come on!! You know you want to feel the power between your legs!<P><BR>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>Okay, in real life you are no longer inhibited by your wife's disapproval OR her interests and hobbies (lucky you!), so why don't you get a nice, decent little Harley? Say a 883 Hugger? That's a cute little four-stroke, five speed I think you'd like. Come on!! You know you want to feel the power between your legs!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know, if I didn't have a lot of respect for the Harleys I wouldn't be here. But as you know, a Hugger isn't really my style. For one thing, the 883 has a chain drive, and I'm not into chains. Looking over various specs, I think perhaps I'd be better off getting the shaft...<P>

OMG <P>The temptation is AWFUL! Huggers aren't your style? (Hope it's not "huggies"!) You aren't into chains? (But you ARE into leather?) You'd be better off getting the shaft? (I'm leaving that one alone, but you sure dangled it!) Man--you sure leave the doors open for witty comebacks, but I'll resist temptation and be good--but OMG it is HARD!!! Heehee<P>So, if an 883 Hugger isn't your style, which ones do you like? Those big, strong, manly-man type of Harleys? I personally like the classic 1948 Indian Chiefs, but then again, I am an old-fashioned kind of girl. God, with my aching bones, you can hardly call me a girl. You know, if you're going to dream, now is the time!<P><BR>Happy July 4th!!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>OMG <P>The temptation is AWFUL! Huggers aren't your style? (Hope it's not "huggies"!) You aren't into chains? (But you ARE into leather?) You'd be better off getting the shaft? (I'm leaving that one alone, but you sure dangled it!) Man--you sure leave the doors open for witty comebacks, but I'll resist temptation and be good--but OMG it is HARD!!! Heehee</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>So, if an 883 Hugger isn't your style, which ones do you like? Those big, strong, manly-man type of Harleys? I personally like the classic 1948 Indian Chiefs, but then again, I am an old-fashioned kind of girl. God, with my aching bones, you can hardly call me a girl. You know, if you're going to dream, now is the time!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, given my habitual reserve and politeness <cough>, it may not surprise you to learn that I am partial to a certain design originating from a different part of the world...<BR>

<P>I give. You are the master, and frankly, it's 1am and I'm tired of dancing. Will you give this chick a break please?<P>What do you want from me? Endlessly wittiness? Incomprehensible enigma? I'm weary. You win. UNCLE!<P>BTW, I have two bones to pick with you. #1) think your point is higher than a 7, isn't it? Come on, don't be shy. One fellow genius can recognize another (Heehee). I'd say more like 8 or 9, anyway. #2)I can think of several adjectives that I could use to describe you, but "reserved" and "polite" are not necessarily the first two that spring to mind. Now I shall tease you: what are the first two that spring to mind? <P>So, what is it, Mr. Riddler? Kawaski? Honda? Daiatsu? As for me and my dream, I'll take a classic 1948 red Indian Chief please...fully restored...engine purring...ahhhhh! ZZZZZzzzzz<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited July 04, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>BTW, I have two bones to pick with you. #1) think your point is higher than a 7, isn't it? Come on, don't be shy. One fellow genius can recognize another (Heehee). I'd say more like 8 or 9, anyway.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Come to think of it, I may have been reading the scorecard upside down. Maybe it was really an 'L'.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>#2)I can think of several adjectives that I could use to describe you, but "reserved" and "polite" are not necessarily the first two that spring to mind. Now I shall tease you: what are the first two that spring to mind?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Um...well, you used 'enigmatic' already. Would the other be...'irritating'?<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>So, what is it, Mr. Riddler? Kawaski? Honda? Daiatsu? As for me and my dream, I'll take a classic 1948 red Indian Chief please...fully restored...engine purring...ahhhhh! ZZZZZzzzzz</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sorry, but I don't think I can let you off so easily. However, I'll give you another hint: Mr. Spock was one of my childhood heroes. (Still is, actually.)<BR>

<P>Awww--it definately was not an "L". Like I said, I would have said more like an 8 or 9, but if you insist, looks like it was a 7. Maybe it was the beginning of a game of "Hangman"! heehee<P>So, Mr. Spock was your hero, huh? Geez, you want STARSHIP! You do know that starships aren't real, right? But the power of tritanium (or dilithium or whatever) is really something isn't it? I can see where that would be interesting to you. BTW, isn't dilithium what REALLY depressed people take?<P>Now, a serious question. Why don't you like to reveal yourself? <P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Now, a serious question. Why don't you like to reveal yourself? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And for us lurkers... inquiring minds do want to know! Thanks for the smiles! <P>------------------<BR><I>As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another...</I> Prov 27:17

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>Geez, you want STARSHIP! You do know that starships aren't real, right?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nonsense! I see them on TV all the time.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>But the power of tritanium (or dilithium or whatever) is really something isn't it? I can see where that would be interesting to you. BTW, isn't dilithium what REALLY depressed people take?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmm... Maybe that's why they call them "warp engines"...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Now, a serious question. Why don't you like to reveal yourself?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's all about respect for my wife's privacy. I have alluded to some things about our marriage that I'm pretty sure she would not want public knowledge, and the public has full access to these forums. On the off chance that people who know me wander through, I'd rather I wasn't recognized. I don't imagine that people who know me really well would have much doubt about who I am, assuming they read more than a few of my posts, but I'm not as concerned about them.<BR>

No, no, no. That's not the kind of revealing I mean. Please don't take this wrong, but part of the "fun" of this forum is that you are basically anonymous. Trust me, Gnome, I have no interest in knowing your identity or in trying to figure it out.<P>What I was asking about is this: you drift around from post to post and forum to forum, and you hand out wise thoughts and interesting advice to people, and yet you so rarely will show us a crack of a bit of a peek at you. You hide behind innuendo and insinuation, and never fully let us see what is on your mind, or see areas in which you need support. Why is that--and don't say it's to respect your wife's privacy, because I don't swallow that? I think it's because it's too "scary" to show us! <P>Okay, I realize you are Mr. Thinker and I am Ms. Feeler here, so you probably analyze yourself right out of sharing yourself, but I hope you will consider this one thing. You are a Thinker--think about it!<P><BR> <P>CJ <P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>What I was asking about is this: you drift around from post to post and forum to forum, and you hand out wise thoughts and interesting advice to people, and yet you so rarely will show us a crack of a bit of a peek at you. You hide behind innuendo and insinuation, and never fully let us see what is on your mind, or see areas in which you need support. Why is that--and don't say it's to respect your wife's privacy, because I don't swallow that? I think it's because it's too "scary" to show us!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you, CJ, for giving me a new question to think about, another avenue of self-examination. <P>I really don't think it's an issue of fear. Believe me, I'm not really different on these boards than I am in real life, and I've <I>never</I> been good at self-exposure except in an intellectual way, even with those I am closest to. Why do you think Mr. Spock was a hero of mine? He has a formidable intellect, rigid self-control, and deep feelings that he has no way to express. I <I>am</I> Mr. Spock, except that I have a sense of humor (albeit a mostly dry one) and I have discovered <I>one</I> effective way in which I can express my feelings.<P>Incidentally, when I speak of difficulty in expressing my feelings, I don't mean that I can't laugh or cry. I can (although crying provides me no catharsis). The difficulty I have is in demonstrating an emotional <I>connection</I> with other people, a connection which I feel but which I seem unable to reveal. Those who know me well can see it, and those with similar personalities can understand it, but most of the time I feel as if I wear a veil.<P>As for my approach to these forums, I do not really feel a need for a lot of personal support from you good folk here. That's because I have wonderful friends and family who already give me more support that I can even handle. What these boards give me is a sense of perspective, a reminder that I am not alone in my particular kind of hell, and perhaps a chance to "pay forward" some of the support and insights that have been given to me. My pain seems a little less meaningless if I can put it to work for others.<P>As far as "fully" letting anyone see what's on my <I>mind</I>, well, one of the characteristics of being an INTP is constant doubt. Is my interpretation of my experiences accurate, and are those experiences <I>really</I> relevant to another person's situation? Instead of "telling it like it is" or like I believe it to be, I often prefer to put a suggestion or an idea out there, hoping that whoever reads it will find something they can use in it, perhaps in a way that I had not even imagined.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Okay, I realize you are Mr. Thinker and I am Ms. Feeler here, so you probably analyze yourself right out of sharing yourself, but I hope you will consider this one thing. You are a Thinker--think about it!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Analysis is how I share myself with <I>myself</I>! As I said before, tears bring me no catharsis. Analysis and understanding does. But because analysis is very nearly the only language I can speak, even inside my own head, I have little capacity for sharing in other ways.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B>But as you know, a Hugger isn't really my style. For one thing, the 883 has a chain drive, and I'm not into chains. Looking over various specs, I think perhaps I'd be better off getting the shaft...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know you've gone beyond this, and maybe it was even meant jokingly, but the newer sportsters (atleast since 1995, I think) no longer have chain drives; they have belt drives. Still, most guys don't like sportsters because the burly biker guys refer to them as 'girls bikes'. <P>But they are fun, and realistically they are probably as safe as any other activity you might engage in, as long as you're a respectful rider and not reckless. Maybe someday, huh?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ava:<BR><B>I know you've gone beyond this, and maybe it was even meant jokingly, but the newer sportsters (atleast since 1995, I think) no longer have chain drives; they have belt drives.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ah! So that's what they meant by "Poly Chain (insert registered trademark symbol here)"! Gotta love those marketing types, going to so much trouble to confuse potential customers in order to pretend that nothing significant has been chainged (presumably because they don't want to upset any subgroup of die-hard fanatics who think <I>their</I> Harley is the only <I>real</I> Harley).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Still, most guys don't like sportsters because the burly biker guys refer to them as 'girls bikes'.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Heh. If I cared one iota about what a "burly biker guy" thinks about my masculinity, I would probably be embarrassed to admit that my idea of an ideal bike looks a lot more like a BMW.<P>Knowing that the 883 has a belt drive puts it on my short list of interesting possibilities, but although it holds its value well, I still don't think it provides the most bang for the buck.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>But they are fun, and realistically they are probably as safe as any other activity you might engage in, as long as you're a respectful rider and not reckless.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, that's a bit of a stretch considering the extraordinarily tame activities I actually <I>do</I> engage in. I am risk-averse by nature, but I believe the risks are manageable to an acceptable level. Certainly I am not worried about getting "carried away" with the "need for speed" or anything like that. Nobody would ever accuse <I>me</I> of being reckless.<P>Oh, wait, that's right: my <I>wife</I> accused me of that, sort of. Intimations of reckless endangerment and all that. How unforgivably foolish it was of me to have been out driving when it started to snow, and to allow someone to slide into my car from behind...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Maybe someday, huh?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah. Maybe someday...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Thank you, CJ, for giving me a new question to think about, another avenue of self-examination. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Always happy to oblige. Self-examination is fun, isn't it? I'll bet it's especially fun for you! I personally keep wanting to examine my feelings (haha) and I find that using the Thinking part that I do have is like an enjoyable mind puzzle. Here's my request, though. If you discover anything new in this latest delve into yourself, please let me know what you found!<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I really don't think it's an issue of fear. Believe me, I'm not really different on these boards than I am in real life, and I've never been good at self-exposure except in an intellectual way, even with those I am closest to. Why do you think Mr. Spock was a hero of mine? He has a formidable intellect, rigid self-control, and deep feelings that he has no way to express. I am Mr. Spock, except that I have a sense of humor (albeit a mostly dry one) and I have discovered one effective way in which I can express my feelings.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I must confess, I sensed your Vulcan-esque tendencies, and cool, that's just the way you are. I've always found Spock's quest for perfect order kind of interesting, because while I share the accountant-type mentality for orderliness, I can't imagine how he is able to suppress his emotions. Here's the wierd thing, though, GDP. Spock may not have been any good at expressing himself emotionally, but he was darn clear about expressing himself intellectually and scientifically. I know you are trying to lead us into our own little thinking, but it would be darn fun to hear what YOU are thinking. <P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Incidentally, when I speak of difficulty in expressing my feelings, I don't mean that I can't laugh or cry. I can (although crying provides me no catharsis). The difficulty I have is in demonstrating an emotional connection with other people, a connection which I feel but which I seem unable to reveal. Those who know me well can see it, and those with similar personalities can understand it, but most of the time I feel as if I wear a veil.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Ditto on that veil thing--meaning that it does seem as if you wear a veil. Do you like the veil though? Is the veil sort of comforting? Or do you wish that people would take the time to glimpse under the veil now and then? Maybe if glimpsing under it too uncomfortable, learn the pattern and be able to peer through the veil? <P>You said something startling, and I'd like to ask you about it. You said,(I'm paraphrasing here) that you feel emotional connections to people but you aren't able to demonstrate that in a way that other people can observe. Do you think that is a Thinker trait? Also, if you feel and emotional connection but can't demonstrate it, how would a person know that you feel it? BTW, if I'm being too nosy, you can say that straight to my face.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>As for my approach to these forums, I do not really feel a need for a lot of personal support from you good folk here. That's because I have wonderful friends and family who already give me more support that I can even handle. What these boards give me is a sense of perspective, a reminder that I am not alone in my particular kind of hell, and perhaps a chance to "pay forward" some of the support and insights that have been given to me. My pain seems a little less meaningless if I can put it to work for others.[/B/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Ditto on this too. I know there are days for me when I personally feel sad or bummed or whatever, and I still come here with the idea that maybe if I share the painful experience I've been through, it will end up benefitting someone else. Dig the "pay it forward" reference. Cried like a baby at the end of that movie!<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>[B]As far as "fully" letting anyone see what's on my mind, well, one of the characteristics of being an INTP is constant doubt. Is my interpretation of my experiences accurate, and are those experiences really relevant to another person's situation? Instead of "telling it like it is" or like I believe it to be, I often prefer to put a suggestion or an idea out there, hoping that whoever reads it will find something they can use in it, perhaps in a way that I had not even imagined.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I understand what you mean about the constant doubt and self evaluation, but I'd like to encourage you to be brave and share your thoughts with us anyway. Your mantra is: Yes, my analysis is accurate, and yes, it will is relevant to (so and so's) situation. Come on, say it with me: Yes, my analysis is accurate, and yes, it will is relevant to (so and so's) situation. <P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Analysis is how I share myself with myself! As I said before, tears bring me no catharsis. Analysis and understanding does. But because analysis is very nearly the only language I can speak, even inside my own head, I have little capacity for sharing in other ways.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>So? What's your point? GDP, did it ever occur to you that there are other Thinkers out there who are trying to analyze their situation, but have somehow gotten stuck? Their logic is "out of whack" and not being able to make heads or tails of it is driving them crazy? Analysis IS sharing--so is understanding, and evaluating, and contemplating, and letting it rumble around in your head. The search for order IS a search that can be shared. Try. Okay?<P>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.